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HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.25 15:49:00 - [61] ok FW missions high range higher LP rewards - 10 jumps more LP than 3 jumps and less for 1 jump. Intriduces travel factor. Create balance keep missions but expand variance and rewards Introduce a 1-2 hour timer and sec hit for failing to many to quickly If tier one factional battleships become to expensive lower the LP cost. Example with domi introduce 2 classes perahps a standard naval issue version with 25% more HP across the board. And then a elite naval version with 50% extra HP shields hull and armour ( and other bonuses) do this with the other races and create more levels of factional ships for differing LP cost Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Liisa Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.25 16:13:00 - [62] Originally by: Garr Anders snip I asked about FW missions. You gave me a great answer about FW. You also gave great references where one could check your statements. You gave your opinion about certain things. ("Isnt it the opposing factions duty/task to stop these players?") I think you have fallen into the trap that I mentioned in my post. You are starting to see things as you think they should be, not as CCP wanted them to be.
Greg6	Posted - 2009.11.25 16:22:00 - [63] Heh. What a fun, and completely uninformative, read. FW missions have become a gold rush, anyone who's been paying attention can see that. Folk are chasing LP to such a point that they won't fight when the opportunity is there because it disrupts their isk/hour. While I don't have the hard data I'd like to make a firm opinion it certainly seems as if they have gotten out of balance and I, personally, would support making them more like regular high sec missions. I am amazed that CCP, after setting the amount of LP generated per kill at ridiculously low levels, set up this LP/isk generating machine for those who can stomach the endless jumps and mindless PVE. If they were so worried about folk using alts to farm kills for LP how did they miss the obvious LP farm FW missions would become? To really have an opinion I'd want to have access to data that only CCP has right now. But, assuming my gut is accurate and FW mission running produces multiples of lvl4 mission running isk/hour, then the I'd think it needs to be nerfed somehow. Could be the market will do it as it continues to be flooded with those LP store items (about 3 months ago we were selling things for 300M isk that are now going for 40M isk), could be CCP will do it. But none of us have any idea based on this thread at all, very entertaining. :)
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.25 16:28:00 - [64] Originally by: Liisa ... I think you have fallen into the trap that I mentioned in my post. You are starting to see things as you think they should be, not as CCP wanted them to be. Yes and no but I get your point. But if you have listend to the FW roundtable you can draw a suspicious line from what an ex CSM said toward this nerf. So it might be that somebody "closer" to the CCP might have tipped them into a direction that might need to be looked at (influx of LP into the system) and are now coming with a solution that is in the very essence counter productive to what CCP orignally wanted, while there is a very very very easy way to rebalance the LP influx into the game without compromising what FW should have been in the first place. An incentive to get ppl into PvP. ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Vera Thiam Caldari Zen Gaming	Posted - 2009.11.25 16:55:00 - [65] As the 'Decline' penelty is now in force on Sisi - you can only reject 1 mission every 4 hours otherwise you get a -1 standing hit to the corp, one would imagine this is now going to be introduced into Dominion? Can CCP confirm or deny??? How is this going to effect both the running/farming of the missions and/or the price of the Tier 1 Navy ships upon release?? People with +2m LP (and I know a lot of player have much more) are going to have alot of Navy ships to sell, will the price be bumped to compensate for the effective end of selective mission running or will it be a fire fight to sell sell sell to minamise loss time isk/ph of month of grinding. Discuss?
Nobani Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.25 17:27:00 - [66] Edited by: Nobani on 25/11/2009 17:33:36 Originally by: Zarnak Wulf If there are people who abuse the system - code around it. But lowsec should be better for isk production then high sec. You're running missions while getting shot at by opposing militia. Throw in some pirates for **s and giggles. And nullsec should be king. That will be a work in progress through Dominion hopefully. The new 0.0 content might be marginally more profitable than L4 mission running, but only after grinding up to the top level and paying for sov. So I don't think CCP agrees with you on how content should be balanced. Quote:** The biggest change to resources that will happen in Dominion 1.0 is that players owning space in 0.0 space will be able to upgrade the density so that more people can live in a given system. The income however isn't being increased much over what players can get from level 4 mission in the initial point release so we don't expect a massive exodus of people out of empire space or a massive change in the influx of money or resources. We're going to watch how the resource upgrades take hold and iterate on them. The majority of the upgrades revolve around exploration content and we have plans to boost that content, but not until we let players get used to the system and we're sure we're not going to crash the economy.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2009.11.25 17:31:00 - [67] Edited by: Zarnak Wulf on 25/11/2009 17:33:41 Originally by: Greg6 Heh. What a fun, and completely uninformative, read. FW missions have become a gold rush, anyone who's been paying attention can see that. Folk are chasing LP to such a point that they won't fight when the opportunity is there because it disrupts their isk/hour. While I don't have the hard data I'd like to make a firm opinion it certainly seems as if they have gotten out of balance and I, personally, would support making them more like regular high sec missions. I am amazed that CCP, after setting the amount of LP generated per kill at ridiculously low levels, set up this LP/isk generating machine for those who can stomach the endless jumps and mindless PVE. If they were so worried about folk using alts to farm kills for LP how did they miss the obvious LP farm FW missions would become? To really have an opinion I'd want to have access to data that only CCP has right now. But, assuming my gut is accurate and FW mission running produces multiples of lvl4 mission running isk/hour, then the I'd think it needs to be nerfed somehow. Could be the market will do it as it continues to be flooded with those LP store items (about 3 months ago we were selling things for 300M isk that are now going for 40M isk), could be CCP will do it. But none of us have any idea based on this thread at all, very entertaining. :) I don't want to see low sec have "missions like highsec." These are gunboat style and I like them. You can't do an Angel extravaganza in lowsec while at war. You probably mean in terms of reward - and that also isn't fair. You should get rewarded for taking risks. If anything I would propose bringing the LP for missions down but cranking it up for kills instead. Farmers would hate this. It would reward FW while having the vision of not nerfing the missions to obscurity.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2009.11.25 17:40:00 - [68] Originally by: Nobani Edited by: Nobani on 25/11/2009 17:33:36 Originally by: Zarnak Wulf If there are people who abuse the system - code around it. But lowsec should be better for isk production then high sec. You're running missions while getting shot at by opposing militia. Throw in some pirates for **s and giggles. And nullsec should be king. That will be a work in progress through Dominion hopefully. The new 0.0 content might be marginally more profitable than L4 mission running, but only after grinding up to the top level and paying for sov. So I don't think CCP agrees with you on how content should be balanced. Quote:** The biggest change to resources that will happen in Dominion 1.0 is that players owning space in 0.0 space will be able to upgrade the density so that more people can live in a given system. The income however isn't being increased much over what players can get from level 4 mission in the initial point release so we don't expect a massive exodus of people out of empire space or a massive change in the influx of money or resources. We're going to watch how the resource upgrades take hold and iterate on them. The majority of the upgrades revolve around exploration content and we have plans to boost that content, but not until we let players get used to the system and we're sure we're not going to crash the economy. We can just keep chipping away at it. The LP stores should be redone. Guns that require 100 tags are a bit silly. FW and lowsec should offer higher rewards and I think that the LP militia store changes were a good start. I don't want to see it nerfed. Give more LP for killing enemy militia for example and tweak the missions. And how hard would it be after that to put an LP store in nullsec for kills in PvP? New faction items that only exist in nullsec and are even cheaper. Make that part of Dominion 1.2. There's lots of ideas that can be implemented. But again, we can only offer ideas and keep chipping away at them.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.25 19:04:00 - [69] Originally by: Vera Thiam As the 'Decline' penelty is now in force on Sisi - you can only reject 1 mission every 4 hours otherwise you get a -1 standing hit to the corp, one would imagine this is now going to be introduced into Dominion? Can CCP confirm or deny??? How is this going to effect both the running/farming of the missions and/or the price of the Tier 1 Navy ships upon release?? People with +2m LP (and I know a lot of player have much more) are going to have alot of Navy ships to sell, will the price be bumped to compensate for the effective end of selective mission running or will it be a fire fight to sell sell sell to minamise loss time isk/ph of month of grinding. Discuss? So i guess FW LP for ISK ratio just skyrocketed, heh? Think it will take circa 3 months to dump all farmed ships on the marked but after than we will see another bottleneck :)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.25 21:25:00 - [70] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Vera Thiam As the 'Decline' penelty is now in force on Sisi - you can only reject 1 mission every 4 hours otherwise you get a -1 standing hit to the corp, one would imagine this is now going to be introduced into Dominion? Can CCP confirm or deny??? How is this going to effect both the running/farming of the missions and/or the price of the Tier 1 Navy ships upon release?? People with +2m LP (and I know a lot of player have much more) are going to have alot of Navy ships to sell, will the price be bumped to compensate for the effective end of selective mission running or will it be a fire fight to sell sell sell to minamise loss time isk/ph of month of grinding. Discuss? So i guess FW LP for ISK ratio just skyrocketed, heh? Think it will take circa 3 months to dump all farmed ships on the marked but after than we will see another bottleneck :) Dial a mission got the nerfbat? woo hoo! \o/ Now my lp reserve will be worth zillions instead of billions. You da man CCP! Also even if they do nerf dial a mission with top social skills and a good agent you will still be able to pull in a decent amount of lp from a solo bomber point of view. At least enough per day to get a faction ship of your choice which is still pretty damn good considering how long it takes to grind lp from an empire agent especially with the increased lp price of the empire stores. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.

Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:03:00 - [71] I think ill go back to trading/market speculation :) Was fun till it lasted but rly cba to sit 24/7 in system in hopes of getting decent mission (aka: not killing starbases) closer than 18 jumps :)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:30:00 - [72] Wait, isn't everyone and his bomber alt farming fw lp for the navy ships basically doing it based on market speculation of future trades? Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:33:00 - [73] Smart people just wait for market warfare to start and will earn isk from it ;p During gold rush sell shovels and pickaxes :)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:56:00 - [74] Oh you must mean all those hounds, mods and faction ammo I dumped on the market near amarr fw space. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.11.26 00:41:00 - [75] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 26/11/2009 00:43:18 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Unfortunately the sad truth is that casual player will always suffer due to these "powergamers" which find quick and dirty ways to run these missions many times more efficiently than you can and pull countless billions out of it. The "But I want to cherrypick" is a weak excuse, if that is valid, I want "Recon" in highsec all day long as well, and the ability to skip all vs. faction and vs. drones missions as well because they lower my average income. We need to look at the big picture and not our personal interests. I agree that the missions in their old form are not worth it, hence I lobbied strongly for reducing the standing penalty and rake up the rewards. But CCP went completely to the other extreme, and removed all penalties alltogether which was extremely silly and stupid, as every game designer should have been able to predict what would happen next. You are a massive idiot - RL gender notwitstanding. Powergamers exist only because of 2 possibilities; either free time or spotting a loophole - and in the case of FW missions ... both, which are quickly closed anyway, so this loophole will be closed no doubt. As for keeping neutrals out of missions, go back to WoW. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.11.26 03:52:00 - [76] Originally by: Neo Gabriel And while we are at it, maybe you should allow for plexes completed in contested systems to give LP payouts similar to missions. I was thinking 10-30K lp shared between the capping fleet, depending on plex size, but make sure you can't solo the plex and you have to kill all the rats tp prevent exploits. There's nothing wrong with soloing a plex if you are able. You just shouldn't be able to solo it while cloaked, or in a WCS 'run away' ship. Having to kill the rats is a good solution, I think.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.26 03:57:00 - [77] Originally by: Ulstan You just shouldn't be able to solo it while cloaked Its kinda hard to target and kill the mission objective whilst cloaked. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.11.26 04:05:00 - [78] Originally by: Greg6 But, assuming my gut is accurate and FW mission running produces multiples of lvl4 mission running isk/hour, then the I'd think it needs to be nerfed somehow. Why do people say stuff like this? Of course FW low sec missions should be better than hi sec L4 missions. That should go without saying. They should be much better. We want low sec missions that attract people compared to hi sec missions. Secondly, the LP is 100% self adjusting and no nerf from CCP is needed. The market will automatically adjust the value of those LP in isk to how hard it is to obtain said LP. If it truly is an easy gold rush, as some are claiming, the LP will fast become worth very little. We've seen this market adjustment for LP for L4 missions, what makes you think it won't apply to FW missions?
Neo Gabriel Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.26 05:22:00 - [79] That's the problem right there! I don't want the LP payout to be worthless because everyone and their mother has millions of LP. It has to be made somehow so that there has to be some actual effort on the part of the missioner. Right now we go in select a mission of choice around the systems we want to run them for the best l4 agents and spend 1-2 hours farming them. There is no "effort" except you have to keep your eyes in local, scanner open and an alt to scout the acceleration gates and through the stargates when moving with mission ship between systems. Every now and then someone tries to jump your mission to get an easy kill but if you keep eyes on the scanner you have enough notice to Safe up before its too late. Everyone has their missioning garden. I am familiar with the gardens in the Caldari-Gallente FW space and who farms them, what ships they use and how much they make. People use stabbed Intys or Cloaky ships to pick up their missions and no one has time to fight anymore. It is a mad gold rush that will enable all of us to buy Cap Ships and not have to farm lvl4s in highsec to pay for our PVP addiction for a long time, but meanwhile FW has died and we are in a carebearing sabbath. It would be much better to force people to accept whatever mission you are given. It will force people to move in wolfpacks of PVP fit ships to run everyone's missions all around the faction war space. This would force fleets to roam to accomplish their missions and get people booty. Now I can already think of ways to somewhat go around that, but it wouldn't make things as ridiculous and lame as they are right now. Plus, it would be much harder to farm LP and thus the value would go up, so everybody wins. I think it would be much better if LP payout for kills was multiplied by at least a factor of 10 and integrate FW plex and missioning into a single system where people are rewarded for participating in it. Have Plex spawn randomly in border systems and people can go and fight for them so they can earn LP for completing objectives (Ie. Defend the Starbase for 2 hours, Destroy this Relay within 1.5hr, Capture the flag in this system and bring it back to this one within 3 hours, etc., and make sure there is a payout math that discourages blobbing so that there isn't a case of having 10 gallentes hold off 100 caldari, etc). Everyone saying things should stay as they are... They are saying so because they have found their isk printing machine and don't want to disturb it. This is massively unbalanced and something has to be done about it. Whatever you do CCP, please try to get the feedback and participation of everyone involved with faction wars... The big Corps on all sides that fight it, the pirates that live in it and the player base that thrives in it. And please, PLEASE give a definitive answer on the "mission browsing" issue so that we an act accordingly.
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.26 07:28:00 - [80] Edited by: Garr Anders on 26/11/2009 07:12:27 Edited by: Garr Anders on 26/11/2009 07:05:50 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 25/11/2009 23:56:28 Originally by: T'san Manaan quick CCP nerf AFK domis someones usintg them as a "free ISK" button As soon as they make more than 100 mil isk per hour and ruins the spirit of a whole aspect of EVE, I'd be the first one to support that. Originally by: Lusulpher Damn, FW missions are the least of 3 exploited and unbalanced ISK faucets(LvL4s in highsec, moongold!, in that order). ... Being able to choose target system and objective would equal AVOIDING PvP at ALL COSTS. ------- For clarity lets gather some facts: LvL4 mission: generate instant ISK as reward. LvL4 mission: generate LP as reward. Lvl4 mission: generate instant ISK with NPCs bounties. LvL4 mission: are done in high-sec. LvL4 mission: if somebody shoots/steals you, concord will kill him. LvL4 mission: any neutral will have to scan you down first LvL4 mission: can be done AFK LvL4 mission: can generate more than 100mil instant ISK per hour if done with an ALT (loot, salvage, dualboxing) LvL4 mission: can be done without any PvP LvL4 mission: You only can decline missions every 4 hours without a standig loss editLvL4 missoin: Can be done in an NPC Corp safe from wardecs. A huge ISK faucet in the game will cause inflation. There is no way for the market to adapt to this in another way. Factional warfare: missions do not generate ISK. Factional warfare: missions only generate LP as reward. Factional warfare: do not have bounties on the NPCs Factional warfare: are done in low-sec Factional warfare: if somebody shoots you, you have to shoot back yourself or die Factional warfare: a beacon is visible to everybody, WTs, pirates, neutral Factional warfare: mission can not be done AFK Factional warfare: can generate a large amount of LP with an ALT Factional warfare: can try to avoid PvP Factional warfare: you can deline missions without standing loss everytime edit Factional warfare: I am a wartarget A huge LP faucet in the game will lower the cost of faction items. The LP to ISK conversion will drop till the supply reaches a steady flow and the market will adjust. ---------------- Farming is done when something is so profitable that you do it repeatedly. If farming factional warfare missions for profit becomes lower than what you can do with something else with the same amount of effort ppl will stop farming factional warfare missions. If you want to stop farming, lower the LP reward. ---------------- Im not even arguing that the factional warfare reward is to high. Im not even arguing that lvl4 missions should get a lower reward either. I just want - "driven by personal interest" - to be able to decline missions everytime I want without taking a standing hit. And why? So I can - "driven by personal interest" - give my missions together with my fleet a target system of my choice rather than roam aimlessly around: Giving your FW fleet a purpose: FW mission, plexing and PvP in one. ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983

Neo Gabriel Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.26 10:54:00 - [81] Something that has been bothering me and people I play with is that this Isk faucet is ruining faction warfare... people are not roaming or pvping anymore, people just farm these missions nonstop, because how dare you ask me to stop my LP grind for some trivial killmails... Don't you understand I need this so I can afford to buy another 2 carriers and be free of hi-sec lvl4s for years to come? If you don't do something about this ccp you are gonna kill FW for good. Faction war before used to be something exciting, log in after work and join a fleet roaming, ship up to BC or RR BS to counter the enemy fleet spotted and set up camps, give chase... The adrenaline rush of victory over insurmountable odds and the feeling of loss when you lose your ship, but somehow understand that your loss made a big difference for a victory, or even sometimes the sadness of a lost ship to being ganked by pirates, but even then there was the chance of a great even fight where skill and cunning dictated the outcome, even if your fleet ended up smothered. Frigate roams that killed a lone pirate Battleship, fights in planets at Zero when suddenly a pirate fleet lands on top and wrecks havoc. The odd out Pirate Carrier Hotdrop on top of the 150man FW slugfest that scatters everyone to the four corners of the system. This hasn't happened in the last months and pvp is ever scarcer with this Isk printing attention leech badly thought out system turning people into farming drones. Fix it already!
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.26 11:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Neo Gabriel Something that has been bothering me and people I play with is that this Isk faucet is ruining faction warfare... people are not roaming or pvping anymore, people just farm these missions nonstop, because how dare you ask me to stop my LP grind for some trivial killmails... Don't you understand I need this so I can afford to buy another 2 carriers and be free of hi-sec lvl4s for years to come? If you don't do something about this ccp you are gonna kill FW for good. Faction war before used to be something exciting, log in after work and join a fleet roaming, ship up to BC or RR BS to counter the enemy fleet spotted and set up camps, give chase... The adrenaline rush of victory over insurmountable odds and the feeling of loss when you lose your ship, but somehow understand that your loss made a big difference for a victory, or even sometimes the sadness of a lost ship to being ganked by pirates, but even then there was the chance of a great even fight where skill and cunning dictated the outcome, even if your fleet ended up smothered. Frigate roams that killed a lone pirate Battleship, fights in planets at Zero when suddenly a pirate fleet lands on top and wrecks havoc. The odd out Pirate Carrier Hotdrop on top of the 150man FW slugfest that scatters everyone to the four corners of the system. This hasn't happened in the last months and pvp is ever scarcer with this Isk printing attention leech badly thought out system turning people into farming drones. Fix it already! Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Sarahs labrat	Posted - 2009.11.26 14:30:00 - [83] No 'pick your missions' anymore , means no more mission done for T1 battleships. So 500m for a T1 navy ship on pre order now Price days after the patch = ?? Price after 2 weeks = ??? Price after 1 month = ??? Price after 3 months = ?? I personally feel that there will be a big glut dumpped astraight after patch and the price will drop ALOT and after 3 months I beleive they will be selling for a song.
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.26 15:28:00 - [84] Somebody got feedback on this from Sisi ? Originally by: X Gallentius Will the proposed changed reduce FW mission rewards so that they are below high sec mission runner's income? Originally by: Insa Rexion Also I have a question as someone who didn't run these missions until after apoc 1.5. Did failure to complete the missions inside the 12 hour window result in a standings hit as declining or quitting did ? ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.11.26 15:41:00 - [85] You'll prolly get someone say "waaaaa crossposting " so I'll ask the question here myself. Before the FW mission changes in Apoc 1.5 did failure to complete the missions inside the 12 hour window result in a standings hit as declining or quitting did ?
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.26 15:55:00 - [86] someone saing crossposting will occour but if the topics are related go for it. After the FW chagnes in apoc 1.5 did i become easier to fail or ignore missions in a 12 window without takign a fairly largehit And will this be a good thing or a bad thing for the availablity of factional mods and ships Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Raimo Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.11.26 16:12:00 - [87] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Zeba Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot. Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs? Amarr. When minmaturds paint your ass you can die in less than a few seconds. Lol no.. Read my virtual eft lips and bask in the glory and awesomeness that is fw lp whooring for navy ships in a bomber. Manage your transversal and you will barely take any damage. Screw up your transversal and die horribly. [Hound, Amarr LP Whoorage] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I 1MN Afterburner II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Medium Shield Extender II 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I It seems nobody mentioned it, Gallente, pretty much. The ECM amounts are ridiculous, drone boats are ok with it of course, but fit properly not really suited for solo losec roaming. Join RvB!
Greg6	Posted - 2009.11.26 17:05:00 - [88] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf ... I don't want to see low sec have "missions like highsec." .... You probably mean in terms of reward - and that also isn't fair. You should get rewarded for taking risks. If anything I would propose bringing the LP for missions down but cranking it up for kills instead. Farmers would hate this. It would reward FW while having the vision of not nerfing the missions to obscurity. Well see there's this thing called game balance. The isk rewards for FW missions should bear some relation to the isk rewards for lvl 4 mission running. If the difference is too great then folk will choose only one or the other. Now I'm not saying that they should be identical. I agree the higher risk of lower sec operations should carry a higher reward. It's just how much higher? Twice as much? Four times as much? 10? 100? 1,000,000,000,000 times? There has to be some point where we'd all agree it's out of whack. Where that point exactly is and where FW isk generating actually rests, relative to lvl 4s, are both unknowns. I will say this; at the current levels I personally know of more than one member of FW who are doing just about nothing but running FW missions and making billions of iks per day of game play (call it about 4 to 6 hours.) That's a hell of a lot more than they were able to make via running missions, by a factor of 5 to 10, on a guess. Seems high to me, but again I'd have to have access to some data behind the black curtain to really have an opinion. And, I'd agree with increasing LP rewards for kills. If they are worried about exploiters then put a time limit on LP rewards any given character's death can provide (say a pay out every 10 minutes or so) and let fly. It couldn't inject any more cash into the system, any more quickly, than this FW mission salad bar experiment has provided.
Greg6	Posted - 2009.11.26 17:13:00 - [89] Originally by: Ulstan .... Why do people say stuff like this? Same reason why folk reply with stuff like yours. They think they have an insight. That thought isn't always accurate, on either side of the thinking line. See my other post, or read the first one again. I'm not saying that fw missions should be identical to hi sec lvl 4 missions. I am saying the relation between them currently seems to be out of wack. I'm also saying that, really, only CCP has a data pool of sufficient size and robustness to really know. And that, it wasn't hard to predict this outcome once the FW mission salad bar was introduced. ... Originally by: Ulstan .... We've seen this market adjustment for LP for L4 missions, what makes you think it won't apply to FW missions? I never said it wouldn't. In fact the market self correcting was one of the possibilities I listed and I've been predicting a market crash in game for months. Sorry but I'd have to say your reading for understanding, of my posts, wasn't as effective as one might like...
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.26 18:13:00 - [90] Originally by: Greg6 I will say this; at the current levels I personally know of more than one member of FW who are doing just about nothing but running FW missions and making billions of iks per day of game play (call it about 4 to 6 hours.) That's a hell of a lot more than they were able to make via running missions, by a factor of 5 to 10, on a guess. Seems high to me, but again I'd have to have access to some data behind the black curtain to really have an opinion. Thing is FW LP will be auto balanced by... EVE market. If people farm too much and get tens of milions of LPs they can either ditch them all into FW rewards and sell those = price will go down. Or throttle LP reward sales... in which case they are also earning less (more per piece but less pieces sold = similiar results). In current case (ccp "nerfing" FW missions) the only result ccp made is increased FW LP value. People will still have 2 choices: selling all at once or slowly bit by bit. But in both cases they will earn more if they did it pre-dominion because... LP will be now harder to come by. Quote: And, I'd agree with increasing LP rewards for kills. If they are worried about exploiters then put a time limit on LP rewards any given character's death can provide (say a pay out every 10 minutes or so) and let fly. It couldn't inject any more cash into the system, any more quickly, than this FW mission salad bar experiment has provided. Helluva agreed on this one. Also LPs for capping FW plexes (that was one of my biggest disappointments when i joined FW).



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