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Jack Coutu Gallente Duty.	Posted - 2009.11.23 04:18:00 - [1] Can someone at CCP confirm or deny this? It seems to be live on the test server, and if you think getting 50 LP a night killing blobs of idiots in FW is going to convince anyone to join FW to get these new ships you made, you are really really wrong. FW missions need to be there if you want anyone to use your new creations, or are you CCP folks listening to Nozh again? Did he say the "augmented" drones worked really well so this idea would too?
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.23 05:46:00 - [2] they have been nerfed. But i wonder if they are being reworked or removed - so ccp doesnt want anyone to have factional navy ships ( domi, armageddon etc) seems very counter productive Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.11.23 08:24:00 - [3] The "no penaly from decline" thing is far too lenient and made them trivial .. free LP for those who did it basically. I doubt they will be gone come December but the penalty is probably going to come back, at least until CCP can figure out what they can do with them.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.23 09:16:00 - [4] how about simply seperating fw mission lp and assocaited offers and then having ship kill lp and assocaited module and ship offers ( could be priced accordingly) and seperated Would still allow the factional warfare pew pewers to do their thing and the missin runners their thing ( all the missions should push them into low sec though in some way) Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Izanami Rei Caldari ForgeTech Industries	Posted - 2009.11.23 13:12:00 - [5] Originally by: HeliosGal how about simply seperating fw mission lp and assocaited offers and then having ship kill lp and assocaited module and ship offers ( could be priced accordingly) and seperated Would still allow the factional warfare pew pewers to do their thing and the missin runners their thing ( all the missions should push them into low sec though in some way) First of all, LP is LP, FW mission runners and pvpers are already able to do their things seperatly and frankly the lp on ship kills is very low, you do not get any standing for killing ships either, meaning that enemies that donÆt do missions or plexes will not build a multiplier to give you higher LP for killing them. Frankly noone should ever expect to achive anything by killing other players other than the loot and the. Second of all, All imput is valued, but I frankly get the impression you dont know how FW missions work. All FW missions start in Lowsec, makes you travel atleast 5 jumps through lowsec (IÆve seen more than a few asking me to go 15 jumps) and has to be completed in lowsec. When you arrive to the mission, every pirate and wartarget in the system are provided with a beacon in their overview, that allows them to instantly warp to your mission. All so they can attack your PVE fittet ship. Thats how it works, if the missions wern't somewhat quick (and most of the lvl 4 ones arnÆt) you would never be able to complete them as hostile players would interfere, drive you out of the mission or kill you. FW missions are nothing like highsec missions.
Nephilim Xeno Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.23 21:23:00 - [6] i would like to know as well what will happend to FW missions the new navy ships will be very rare if people have to do 20-30 jumps (from agent to mission and back) for 1 mission, especially since there are also quite bad missions with very low reward
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.23 22:19:00 - [7] Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 23/11/2009 22:25:59 Originally by: Nephilim Xeno i would like to know as well what will happend to FW missions the new navy ships will be very rare if people have to do 20-30 jumps (from agent to mission and back) for 1 mission, especially since there are also quite bad missions with very low reward CCP is well aware that you guys DONT do 20 jumps but have alts in all constellations to blitz any mission that ends up in their sector. There are some things that need fixing. The infinite declining is a problem and should be limited to one decline or fail per hour, faction wide (so no running off to another agent), and like R&D agents, corp standings should not give access to the agents (to prevent recycled alts and trial accounts from cycling through missions). In addition neutrals shouldn't be able to enter and complete these missions. I know it is sucky for the pirates there, but its the lesser of the two evils as right now non-FW players are completing these missions so the opposing factions cannot interfere without incurring standing loss. That and the Gallente and Amarr rats need a buff, I ran a few of the L4 missions in cruisers for testing purposes and they're a cakewalk as the NPCs miss all the time. I hear a lot of people complete these things in stealth bombers too, hah. --- Click banner for info!
T'san Manaan Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.23 23:04:00 - [8] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah rabble, rabble, rabble. Please stop trying to ruin FW. everytime you post something I cringe because it will ruin the game I enjoy playing. I run FW missions a couple nights a week to pay for the pvp I do on the weekends, scanning through and cherry picking the ones that I just have to kill the "sector commander" I can run 4 missions an hour. again this is in low sec, average distance is 6-7 jumps away from the system I take the mission from and the average payout is 500k with the time bonus and 2-3k worth of lp which is enough to buy 1 firetail. The average price of a firetail is around 30m right now with the low around 25m and the high around 40m. This means I am making around 30m an hour (this is comparable to high sec mission runners but I do it in low sec with the risk of being cought and killed which happens more than I would like to admit). As it stands I can probably make more an hour doing high sec missions if you factor in the ship losses. The point of faction warfare is to draw people out of highsec and into PVP and lowsec which it is just barely able to do. Of course there are a few "power gamers" who take advantage but there will always be no matter what you do. The best part of FW missions is the ability to decline crappy missions, why would I play a game that forces me to run **ty missions that I don't want to do? It defeats the whole point of playing a game. If I wanted to do **ty tasks that are no fun I would have stayed at work and saved my $15 a month. In short stop posting as you are activly engaged in trying to screw over other people and I'm getting sick of it.
Ankhesentapemkah Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.23 23:51:00 - [9] Unfortunately the sad truth is that casual player will always suffer due to these "powergamers" which find quick and dirty ways to run these missions many times more efficiently than you can and pull countless billions out of it. The "But I want to cherrypick" is a weak excuse, if that is valid, I want "Recon" in highsec all day long as well, and the ability to skip all vs. faction and vs. drones missions as well because they lower my average income. We need to look at the big picture and not our personal interests. I agree that the missions in their old form are not worth it, hence I lobbied strongly for reducing the standing penalty and rake up the rewards. But CCP went completely to the other extreme, and removed all penalties alltogether which was extremely silly and stupid, as every game designer should have been able to predict what would happen next. --- Click banner for info!
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.24 02:04:00 - [10] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah We need to look at the big picture and not our personal interests. I agree that the missions in their old form are not worth it, hence I lobbied strongly for reducing the standing penalty and rake up the rewards. But CCP went completely to the other extreme, and removed all penalties alltogether which was extremely silly and stupid, as every game designer should have been able to predict what would happen next. I have a feeling CCP is perfectly aware of the fw mission spamming as it was planned that way to get people interested in running the missions and moast importantly making sure there are plenty of the new navy hulls for sale on D-day. Almost every fw mission runner I know has at the very least several million lp saved so even if ccp does nerf dial a mission then all it will do is drive the worth of fw lp to astronomical levels. Also rumour has it that the amarr and gallente guys are now revising launch prices for navy geddons and domis to break 2 bil if ccp does nerf fw missions. Either way I'm going to make a crap ton of isk off it regardless of what ccp does with the missions and still be swimming in navy ships to use for normal fw pew pew. However personally I don't think they are going to nerf them past stealth changes like changing the actual missions themselves to stop afterburning bombers from farming level 4 fw missions for 25k+ lp a pop which to me is the only real 'exploit' as a flying a bomber is basically risk free unless you desync at a gate camp and they pop you. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.

chatgris Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.24 06:42:00 - [11] Originally by: Zeba I don't think they are going to nerf them past stealth changes like changing the actual missions themselves to stop afterburning bombers from farming level 4 fw missions for 25k+ lp a pop which to me is the only real 'exploit' as a flying a bomber is basically risk free unless you desync at a gate camp and they pop you. This, please this. I have no trouble with them selecting their destination, but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.24 06:54:00 - [12] Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot. Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs? Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Rato Kaalonnen	Posted - 2009.11.24 08:22:00 - [13] The core problem with these missions is that you can decline them without any negative effects, thus allowing you to cherry-pick them. Running them with an alt does NOT work since all of those I got were the "Go there, kill stuff" type (granted, I did not have the standings to do L3+ ones but I doubt there are haulage missions). These missions happen in a deadspace and the location of this deadspace is only present on the mission holder. The mission and the beacon only spawns once the mission holder warps to it. But the "fly 30 jumps" point is moot. There are SP stations in Eha and the next system one jump from Gallente territory. You simply spam the agents until you get a mission situated in Oicx. Oicx is so full of Caldari militia members (some running FW missions, some actually taking part in FW) that any Gallente militia member is quickly chased out of system. The only risk you take here is getting RSI from all the clicking you have to do until both agents gave you a mission in Oicx.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.24 09:00:00 - [14] so put the usual 4 hour limitations on em or sec hit its easy Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Nephilim Xeno Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.24 10:15:00 - [15] i only agree that amarr and gallente npc's need a big buff. minmatar npc's are extremly overpower with target painting + mass missle spam using neutral characters to do the missions is something that cant be solved easily and will also not be fixed by removing the decline option. it will just make more people use neutrals because you can traven through hostile low sec much easier in a neutral char than your FW one. but using neutrals has one big downside, your faction standing towards that faction will be -10 very fast and that will confine that char from this high sec part for almost forever.
Trabber Shir Caldari 5I Incorporated	Posted - 2009.11.24 10:18:00 - [16] Edited by: Trabber Shir on 24/11/2009 10:22:06 It sounds like the problem Rato is talking about could be fixed by just preventing agents from giving destinations that are less than some arbitrary number of jumps away. I would say 5 makes a nice round number. Edit: As for the neutrals completing them, why not just make shooting the rats in these missions have the same effects as repping someone in FW (hostile to the opposing militias for x minutes iirc, it has been a while since i payed attention to FW)?
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.24 10:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Trabber Shir Edited by: Trabber Shir on 24/11/2009 10:22:06 It sounds like the problem Rato is talking about could be fixed by just preventing agents from giving destinations that are less than some arbitrary number of jumps away. I would say 5 makes a nice round number. Edit: As for the neutrals completing them, why not just make shooting the rats in these missions have the same effects as repping someone in FW (hostile to the opposing militias for x minutes iirc, it has been a while since i payed attention to FW)? can the game mechanikcs allow this type of flagging though Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Trabber Shir Caldari 5I Incorporated	Posted - 2009.11.24 11:08:00 - [18] For the jumps to target in missions, I have no idea, depending on how missions and agents are implemented it could be a simple change or a literally impossible one. For the effects of shooting rats, it depends on how different NPC corps and player corps are under the hood. In principle if I understand the existing ownership mechanic correctly you should just have to make those rats the property of the FW corp.
Neo Gabriel Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.24 11:44:00 - [19] I would personally like to know what are CCP's intentions regarding FW missions. I want to see the patch notes for dominion, saying what is exactly going to be done so i can plan accordingly. If they nerf the ability to skip missions until i get to run them in the constellation where I want them you can expect to see your 2 bil navy domis in a couple of months and I am very happy with that. I can adapt to run missions wherever when I need money, specially since the LP will be worth a lot more. If they do not nerf the skip thing then we will continue to farm LP until its not worth to do so anymore and Navy Domis will be selling for 250mil each. I rather not have it go this way but its fine regardless, would still allow me to make pretty isk when required. But you have to understand that if nothing is done some small groups of people are able to farm 1000K LP in a few days (of about 10 hrs total) of work, which devaluates the LP for the others of us who don't have the time nor the will to farm LP in an industrial scale. I also think that since caldaris can run their FW missions in SB because gallente npcs use blasters only has to be changed. We in the gal mil have to run our missions in Drakes, Ishtars, Domis, Ravens and have to deal with annoying ECM, sometimes sacrificing midslots for ECCM mods. If the missions are nerfed... how fair is that some people have to roam one of the most dangerous places in EVE with BCs, BSs and HACs while others can safely move around with their cloaky SBs? You gotta find a way to equalize empire NPCs to use long range weapons and EW weapons that have the same effect. ECM and torps that hit to 100km are better than sensor damps and blasters that hit to 5km. And while we are at it, maybe you should allow for plexes completed in contested systems to give LP payouts similar to missions. I was thinking 10-30K lp shared between the capping fleet, depending on plex size, but make sure you can't solo the plex and you have to kill all the rats tp prevent exploits. This way people will be able to get their LP and fights will occur everywhere for the LP, but if people BLOB they will get smaller payouts, forcing smaller more efficient fleets to fight in conjunction. But PLEASE equalize ALL the empire NPCS to use the same EW and use the same weapons, stop favoring selected groups of people! Can we get a CCP employee to let us know what is up with this please? I AM EAGERLY WAITING FOR A RESPONSE! THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING!
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.24 12:25:00 - [20] perhaps ccp have no solution and the current inbalance in favour of caldari will remain ? ccp communication needed on this thread whats being done. Dev blog perhaps We know its not capital ships and the big bang whiiz bang stuff that attracts customers but tis the smaller things niche stuff that keeps players paying to play the game. More mission variance ( shorter range missions with quicker objectives and perhaps less LP) being added to the overall mission pool might work to Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00

Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.11.24 12:44:00 - [21] 'Factional Warfare' and 'Mission Running' .. aren't those supposed to be completely different things? I mean, from what I know FW was supposed to be a stepping-stone into PvP and probably 0.0. Not sneaky alt-abusing lowsec mission running. Or did I miss the memo? I can't grasp it. Who the hell thought that would be a good concept? ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.24 12:53:00 - [22] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot. Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs? Amarr. When minmaturds paint your ass you can die in less than a few seconds.
Kuronaga The Drekla Consortium	Posted - 2009.11.24 16:37:00 - [23] Originally by: T'san Manaan Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah rabble, rabble, rabble. Please stop trying to ruin FW. everytime you post something I cringe because it will ruin the game I enjoy playing. I run FW missions a couple nights a week to pay for the pvp I do on the weekends, scanning through and cherry picking the ones that I just have to kill the "sector commander" I can run 4 missions an hour. again this is in low sec, average distance is 6-7 jumps away from the system I take the mission from and the average payout is 500k with the time bonus and 2-3k worth of lp which is enough to buy 1 firetail. The average price of a firetail is around 30m right now with the low around 25m and the high around 40m. This means I am making around 30m an hour (this is comparable to high sec mission runners but I do it in low sec with the risk of being cought and killed which happens more than I would like to admit). As it stands I can probably make more an hour doing high sec missions if you factor in the ship losses. The point of faction warfare is to draw people out of highsec and into PVP and lowsec which it is just barely able to do. Of course there are a few "power gamers" who take advantage but there will always be no matter what you do. The best part of FW missions is the ability to decline crappy missions, why would I play a game that forces me to run **ty missions that I don't want to do? It defeats the whole point of playing a game. If I wanted to do **ty tasks that are no fun I would have stayed at work and saved my $15 a month. In short stop posting as you are activly engaged in trying to screw over other people and I'm getting sick of it. Translation: Your opinion is different then mine and I demand -- DEMAND you silence yourself, good sir!
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.24 16:48:00 - [24] Originally by: HeliosGal perhaps ccp have no solution and the current inbalance in favour of caldari will remain ? ccp communication needed on this thread whats being done. Dev blog perhaps We know its not capital ships and the big bang whiiz bang stuff that attracts customers but tis the smaller things niche stuff that keeps players paying to play the game. More mission variance ( shorter range missions with quicker objectives and perhaps less LP) being added to the overall mission pool might work to In favour of Caldari ? Lol ? Compared to other races, Caldari are totally screwed with missions because of the upcoming navy ships: The navy Dominix for example will be in high demand by drone lvl 4 mission runners and Gallente can ask as much as they like, lvl 4 highsec missionrunners have deep pockets. Caldari get a 4th raven ("navy scorp" which is not very scorpy) that is actually worse than a standard raven and much worse than a CNR: no missile speed makes it useless for torps (15km range), cruise missiles are dead after the last missile "balance", the damage of the navy scorp is that of a standard raven and who needs so much medslots anyways ? It makes no sense for PVE, it makes no sense for pvp, it's a completely useless ship that no one will want to buy. Means Caldari can only ask around 2k/lp at best for the already existing items, while the other races, especially Gallente, will get extremely rich in Dominion. This is unfair and has to be fixed.
Admiral Goberius Amarr eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.24 18:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Neo Gabriel I AM EAGERLY WAITING FOR A RESPONSE! THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING! Look I dont mean to be rude but CCP has more pressing matters to look into right now than caring about what is pretty much an extension of the tutorial. Truth is each thread like this distracts ccp from eves serious content such as motherships and titans. Proof: motherships changes have been delayed Thanks a lot champ... So please STFU about your B grade gameplay and let this forum section to people who actually play this game the way it is meant to be played. - Gob ________ Alt of Goberth Ludwig
Neo Gabriel Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.24 19:46:00 - [26] First, caldari isk/lp ratio is much higher than gallente's because lvl4 runners use CNRs and ravens instead: Look at caldari navy invuls and ballistic control launchers etc to see the price difference. Second, it would take 5 minutes for a ccp person to say what they are doing about this and when and I would be satisfied, so they can ignore the 20Thoudsand of us and go cater to the 400 MOM pilots. Don't forget that we will supply ALL the navy Domis in eve, all the 250ish of them. And If missions get nerfed, that's about as many as you will ever see.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.24 20:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Zeba Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot. Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs? Amarr. When minmaturds paint your ass you can die in less than a few seconds. Lol no.. Read my virtual eft lips and bask in the glory and awesomeness that is fw lp whooring for navy ships in a bomber. Manage your transversal and you will barely take any damage. Screw up your transversal and die horribly. [Hound, Amarr LP Whoorage] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I 1MN Afterburner II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Medium Shield Extender II 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.11.24 20:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah CCP is well aware that you guys DONT do 20 jumps but have alts in all constellations to blitz any mission that ends up in their sector. Why are you commenting on something you clearly know sod all about ? The char. that accepts the mission has to be in the mission system to warp to the beacon and hence has to make all the jusmps between agent and mission. You "alt" claim is BS.
Steve Celeste Caldari Overdogs	Posted - 2009.11.24 20:11:00 - [29] Originally by: Admiral Goberius Look I dont mean to be rude but CCP has more pressing matters to look into right now than caring about what is pretty much an extension of the tutorial. Truth is each thread like this distracts ccp from eves serious content such as motherships and titans. Proof: motherships changes have been delayed Thanks a lot champ... So please STFU about your B grade gameplay and let this forum section to people who actually play this game the way it is meant to be played. - Gob Just quoting this because it is too funny. HEY look at me everybody i got a SERIOUS Titan!
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.24 20:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Zeba Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot. Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs? Amarr. When minmaturds paint your ass you can die in less than a few seconds. Lol no.. Read my virtual eft lips and bask in the glory and awesomeness that is fw lp whooring for navy ships in a bomber. Manage your transversal and you will barely take any damage. Screw up your transversal and die horribly. [Hound, Amarr LP Whoorage] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I 1MN Afterburner II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Medium Shield Extender II 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Last time i tried this i got instapopped (before i even launched AB that is). Think it was 'cost of hubris'. Anyways i dont care, I use ceptor to draw aggro. Safer and easier method plus i can always cloak bomber when some guests come into mission room.

Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.11.24 20:20:00 - [31] Originally by: Admiral Goberius Originally by: Neo Gabriel I AM EAGERLY WAITING FOR A RESPONSE! THE SILENCE IS DEAFENING! Look I dont mean to be rude but CCP has more pressing matters to look into right now than caring about what is pretty much an extension of the tutorial. Truth is each thread like this distracts ccp from eves serious content such as motherships and titans. Proof: motherships changes have been delayed Thanks a lot champ... So please STFU about your B grade gameplay and let this forum section to people who actually play this game the way it is meant to be played. - Gob lol 0.0 has just as many noob carebears as FW, nice troll tho (5/10)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.24 20:28:00 - [32] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Last time i tried this i got instapopped (before i even launched AB that is). Think it was 'cost of hubris'. Anyways i dont care, I use ceptor to draw aggro. Safer and easier method plus i can always cloak bomber when some guests come into mission room. Oh hahaha yeah that is the one mission that can instapop even a well flown bomber. Don't take that mission if your solo. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.24 20:35:00 - [33] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/11/2009 20:35:29 11k LP for killing 1 tempest (tho it speed tanks by pulsing MWD) and no respawns? Hell no, thats one of better missions :) Just needs little ceptor help.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.24 20:43:00 - [34] Wait wat? only 11k lp? Is this a level 3 mission as it normaly offers me around 25~30k lp for L4 cost of hubris? Or do you not have the relevant social skills trained up? Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.11.24 21:24:00 - [35] Edited by: Insa Rexion on 24/11/2009 21:27:30 Edited by: Insa Rexion on 24/11/2009 21:25:28 Originally by: Zeba Wait wat? only 11k lp? Is this a level 3 mission as it normaly offers me around 25~30k lp for L4 cost of hubris? Or do you not have the relevant social skills trained up? Auto balancer mate, this is why i don't understand the whine nerfs TBH. I have seen the LP payouts drop dramatically as more and more ppl do them. Couple that with the inevitable market value crash of LP store item value. The 2 best sellers from the RF LP store (target painters and LSEs) now sell for around half the value they did when the missions were buffed. I now takes considerably more missions to make enough LP to get items that are now worth half what they oncer were. At a guess I'd say FW make (very roughly) around 50% or lower what they did just after the buff, the market itself is bring them into line with everything else TBH. If the decline option is nerfed, all but a few will just go back to running hisec missions. Why will anyone bother with them when you have to wait around for however long to get a mission that isn't certain death, when they can just spam hisec missions for an hour or two and have isk in wallet rather than LPs (which still take further time to turn into isk) For the few with dedicated FW mission alts, this is going to be a blessing as the alt just sits in station, declining once in a while and still cherry picking, albeit slower while the main pvps etc. The occasional missions they do accept will earn them a fortune as almost nobody else will be running them. Undoing the decline buff is just going to make it worse regarding dedicated mission farmers TBH. They will still earn the same for much much less effort. If we just let the market and auto balancer continue what it has started, we will get a better result imho EDIT I get 11k for that mission too from the second best agent and around 14 from the top
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.24 21:37:00 - [36] Hrmm well it has been about a month since I last ran any fw missions(8 digit lp amounts do that to you:P) so I guess the autobalance could have dropped the amount of lp to that low a level. However I was basing my lp figures off the q20 agent amarr has so maybe that might have something to do with it. I'd go run some now but the alt I was using joined a corp not currently in fw. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Tarodir	Posted - 2009.11.24 23:01:00 - [37] Yeah how dare people make isk in lowsec! Nerf lowsec! Buff highsec!
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.24 23:07:00 - [38] Originally by: Zeba Wait wat? only 11k lp? Is this a level 3 mission as it normaly offers me around 25~30k lp for L4 cost of hubris? Or do you not have the relevant social skills trained up? As the guy above said. Thats maxskilled (5/5) lv4 cost of hubris with decent agent (lvl4 q-9, 0.2 sec system - its 2nd best amarr agent but its 5-7 jumps closer to mission area than the best one, so obvious choice). Also 8 digit LP? Thats like 10 000 000 LP minimum. Even at 30 000 per hubris (and 10minutes per mission) thats 55,5 hours of farming straight. Have hard time believing that. Well uness you really only farmed missions for a month or longer.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.24 23:15:00 - [39] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/11/2009 23:09:55 Originally by: Zeba Wait wat? only 11k lp? Is this a level 3 mission as it normaly offers me around 25~30k lp for L4 cost of hubris? Or do you not have the relevant social skills trained up? As the guy above said. Thats maxskilled (5/5) lv4 cost of hubris with decent agent (lvl4 q-9, 0.2 sec system - its 2nd best amarr agent but its 5-7 jumps closer to mission area than the best one, so obvious choice). Ah well the q9 explains it as the q20 agent makes you loads moar lp per mission with top social skills. And to comment on the lp amount you edited out yeah thats running missions on and off for around a month and not a 55 hour grind though I did do a 16 hour marathon once just to see how much I could make. I Will Not Do That Again. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.24 23:16:00 - [40] Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/11/2009 23:21:23 Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/11/2009 23:17:04 Actually i suck at reading map and i am going to change agent. FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Goddamnit i feel like total idiot right now ;p Coz for all missions ive ran i could have had 2x more LP by now :X Well at least i dont suck as much at trading :X

Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.24 23:22:00 - [41] In my very very humble opinion, "browsing" - thus declining missions to pick a "better" one - is not exploiting the system at all. One of the original purpose for FW was to get more ppl into PvP and into low-sec. So far the ISK vs reward was so unbalanced that even looking at low-sec missions (common lvl3, lvl4 or lvl5 missions) was to a large part either stupid or an invitation to get ganked (as most of these systems are getting camped on their entry gates). Right now ppl can "hand pick" the mission that fit their objective (hello sandbox) - for good LP reward or the right target system - and thus achieve their own player objects and go out into low-sec with the chance/risk of getting into PvP. It is not possible to just "shut down" an agent by just camping his home constellation and it is not possible to camp the target destination system, as ppl can shift these to their liking. With the ability to "browse" ppl can "use" these missions (as stated above) to give their whole roaming a purpose and an objective to be achieved and gain standing and LP (till CCP gives occupancy a strategical and tactical meaning). If the players objective is getting LP fast, they have to setup their fleet accordingly to avoid PvP, but they are still in low sec, they still have to travel and if the opposing force finds out they are flying around, it is the opposing militias task to stop this. If the opposing force still keeps camping just one system, it is not the fault of the "game mechanics" (aka being able to browse a mission) that these players are not being stopped. I outlined here: Giving your FW fleet a purpose: FW mission, plexing and PvP in one. Why having these mission "pickable" is a very good idea and good for low-sec and FW and to get new players into trying out PvP. If the LP reward is too high, I could live with reducing the reward but making them "not decline able without a standing loss" is IMHO very stupid. The ORIGINAL intention of FW Missions was to get players into low-sec. If Players are able to "farm" this mission it is clearly the job of the opposing players to stop this. THAT WOULD BE THE SANDBOX APPROACH. You know sandbox? The one thingy you are all so proud of ? ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.24 23:26:00 - [42] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/11/2009 23:21:23 Edited by: Deva Blackfire on 24/11/2009 23:17:04 Actually i suck at reading map and i am going to change agent. FFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU Goddamnit i feel like total idiot right now ;p Coz for all missions ive ran i could have had 2x more LP by now :X Well at least i dont suck as much at trading :X Glad to be of service. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.24 23:29:00 - [43] Well i thought about other way of balancing missions. Including the DESTINATION system and DISTANCE into LP you get per mission calculation, instead of agent location and HIS system sec status. This way if same agent gives you mission to hisec it will pay much less as if he gave you mission to lowsec. In FW mission 15 jumps away would pay more than mission 5 jumps away. Also would remove the "lv4 q20 agent in 0.5 system is the one being farmed" issue (or at least would de-clog it a bit).
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.24 23:32:00 - [44] If CCP thinks that the reward and influx of LP is to high reduce the reward accordingly. Another note didnt CCP wanted to have more faction navy ships in game ? Another yet another note, how about making the discount not static but standing/ rank related. That would reward those players that dedicate themself to the faction they work for and would make the "influx" of FW items lower again. There are plenty of better ways to "reduce the LP inflation" than just making the agents crap like the high-sec one. ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Terra Mikael Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.11.25 00:16:00 - [45] Edited by: Terra Mikael on 25/11/2009 00:20:36 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Unfortunately the sad truth is that casual player will always suffer due to these "powergamers" which find quick and dirty ways to run these missions many times more efficiently than you can and pull countless billions out of it. So...learn 2 play? Just because you suck, ank, doesn't mean the game needs nerfing. Unfortunately most players think exactly like this. I mean, you just previously argued that a cruiser does these missions too easily because battleships can't track it. Seriously? Who would have though that battleships might have problems tracking small, fast targets ?! I don't mission, but the same arguments I hear from you has been the excuse to nerf pretty much everything, and usually the underlying, unsaid reason is that the complaining pilots are completely incompetent. ___________ Proof that Daniel Jackson is a ret@rded furry
Misaki Yuuko	Posted - 2009.11.25 00:41:00 - [46] Originally by: Terra Mikael Edited by: Terra Mikael on 25/11/2009 00:20:36 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Unfortunately the sad truth is that casual player will always suffer due to these "powergamers" which find quick and dirty ways to run these missions many times more efficiently than you can and pull countless billions out of it. So...learn 2 play? Just because you suck, ank, doesn't mean the game needs nerfing. Unfortunately most players think exactly like this. I mean, you just previously argued that a cruiser does these missions too easily because battleships can't track it. Seriously? Who would have though that battleships might have problems tracking small, fast targets ?! I don't mission, but the same arguments I hear from you has been the excuse to nerf pretty much everything, and usually the underlying, unsaid reason is that the complaining pilots are completely incompetent. Don't pay attetion to she, is the school of thinking that people should be able to gain the same as others putting much less effort. That's what is killing this game (by killing I mean turning it into other stupid clone of that other game), slowlly. Ankwhatever get over it, hardcore players will and MUST gain more than casual, afetrall they are giving out their life for this ****ty game lol.
Aravorn Gallente Moira.	Posted - 2009.11.25 01:05:00 - [47] Originally by: Garr Anders In my very very humble opinion, "browsing" - thus declining missions to pick a "better" one - is not exploiting the system at all. One of the original purpose for FW was to get more ppl into PvP and into low-sec. So far the ISK vs reward was so unbalanced that even looking at low-sec missions (common lvl3, lvl4 or lvl5 missions) was to a large part either stupid or an invitation to get ganked (as most of these systems are getting camped on their entry gates). Right now ppl can "hand pick" the mission that fit their objective (hello sandbox) - for good LP reward or the right target system - and thus achieve their own player objects and go out into low-sec with the chance/risk of getting into PvP. It is not possible to just "shut down" an agent by just camping his home constellation and it is not possible to camp the target destination system, as ppl can shift these to their liking. With the ability to "browse" ppl can "use" these missions (as stated above) to give their whole roaming a purpose and an objective to be achieved and gain standing and LP (till CCP gives occupancy a strategical and tactical meaning). If the players objective is getting LP fast, they have to setup their fleet accordingly to avoid PvP, but they are still in low sec, they still have to travel and if the opposing force finds out they are flying around, it is the opposing militias task to stop this. If the opposing force still keeps camping just one system, it is not the fault of the "game mechanics" (aka being able to browse a mission) that these players are not being stopped. I outlined here: Giving your FW fleet a purpose: FW mission, plexing and PvP in one. Why having these mission "pickable" is a very good idea and good for low-sec and FW and to get new players into trying out PvP. If the LP reward is too high, I could live with reducing the reward but making them "not decline able without a standing loss" is IMHO very stupid. The ORIGINAL intention of FW Missions was to get players into low-sec. If Players are able to "farm" this mission it is clearly the job of the opposing players to stop this. THAT WOULD BE THE SANDBOX APPROACH. You know sandbox? The one thingy you are all so proud of ? Agree with Garr 100% ---------------- FOOM Fac War Vet
FT Diomedes Gallente Factio Paucorum	Posted - 2009.11.25 03:30:00 - [48] Originally by: Garr Anders Garr is absolutely right. As long as people are able to actually stop the opposing side from running missions. ...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne
Jennifer Celeste	Posted - 2009.11.25 04:10:00 - [49] Originally by: HeliosGal they have been nerfed. But i wonder if they are being reworked or removed - so ccp doesnt want anyone to have factional navy ships ( domi, armageddon etc) seems very counter productive yeh because its not like u can grind the lp doing level 4's or 5's...idiot
Kora Zilesti	Posted - 2009.11.25 06:18:00 - [50] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot. Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs? Gallente. Have you ever seen a Gallente L4? UNBELIEVABLE missile spam with obscene range, and permajamming on the side. It takes nothing less than a beastly tank to keep alive in most of them, and in general it has to be a drone boat. So what does that leave? Myrm, ishtar, domi... And it should be noted that some of the triggers in Gallente militia missions can tank five hammerhead IIs, so the bandwidth of the myrm is out. Oh look, ishtar and a domi remain. I'm sure people have their own fits and ways of running militia L4s aside from those two ships, but long story short? Caldari can run theirs in SBs and laughably warp stabbed throwaway junkfits. Easily. You'd be f***ing idiotic to warp a stealth bomber into Gallente L4s.

Admiral Goberius Amarr eXceed Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.25 06:24:00 - [51] Originally by: Jennifer Celeste Originally by: HeliosGal they have been nerfed. But i wonder if they are being reworked or removed - so ccp doesnt want anyone to have factional navy ships ( domi, armageddon etc) seems very counter productive yeh because its not like u can grind the lp doing level 4's or 5's...idiot look how dumb you are - Gob
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.25 07:11:00 - [52] Gallente Caldari NPCs need balancing. Maybe the reward needs a balancing (if CCP think it is to high). This is about HAVING A TOOL IN A SANDBOX TO PLAY WITH. In my link some of you dont seem to bother to read I stated out something very important: Originally by: "Garr Anders" An example setup for a mixed PvP/FW/plexing corp operation. Rallypoint is a top station. FW mission are gated by acceleration gates just like plexes. Pick lvl of FW mission according to your fleet composition. Everybody pick a FW mission targeted. Move there in a fleet with scouts +1 or +2, to make sure gates are clear and the "heavier" stuff can pass. Alternatively go out in SBs only Kill targets of opportunity, avoid drawing attention from bigger fleets. In your target system: Assign one speed tank and dps per mission. Have scouts checking the systems around for early WT warnings [] Have fast tackle on gates to grab targets of opportunity [] Check for plexes in system This will allow you to: [] Gain standing via plexes and FW mission for higher FW mission agents [] Gain LPs via the missions [] Roam around for solo PvP [] Having scouts out independent from militia chat and on Eve Voice in Fleet [] Have back up for small gang in case solo isn't possible [] Take plexes and contest systems annoying the Amarr *[] As FC: Gives yourself an objective that can be achieved and the whole fleet a purpose, which you can announce so the whole fleet can work toward achieving your objective.** This whole operation doesnt need a lot of ppl. Feel free to grab ppl from trustworthy militia members (use common sense and take ppl who are a bit more patient) but make sure that your corpies are the dominant force (so never take more from the militia as you have corp mates in gang). The predominance of your own corp members allows you as FC to enforce your operation goals, while at the same time showing the militia/non corpies that plexes, FW missions and PvP can be combined to a fun operation with a goal rather than sitting hours on a gate. Although it significantly lowers your LP income and standing increase by sharing, this is still more than sitting on gate. You can speed this up by announcing such an operation a day ahead (feel free to use corp mail) so ppl can browse for good missions in your target system before you go out. FW mission will stay 24hours in your journal. Failing, not responding will not result in an standing loss. So rather than gate camping/station games/or aimless roaming around your fleet will have an target system(s) an objective, as well an incentive to PvP. If you as an player are the opinion that I in FW am earning to much ISK or better LP, feel free to shoot me! Im in low-sec! Not gate guns! No need for a scanner the beacon is visible to everybody, yes including neutrals! Hey! That would be like ... a SANDBOX ! ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.11.25 07:32:00 - [53] Originally by: Garr Anders Gallente Caldari NPCs need balancing. Maybe the reward needs a balancing (if CCP think it is to high). This is about HAVING A TOOL IN A SANDBOX TO PLAY WITH. In my link some of you dont seem to bother to read I stated out something very important: Originally by: "Garr Anders" An example setup for a mixed PvP/FW/plexing corp operation. Rallypoint is a top station. FW mission are gated by acceleration gates just like plexes. Pick lvl of FW mission according to your fleet composition. Everybody pick a FW mission targeted. Move there in a fleet with scouts +1 or +2, to make sure gates are clear and the "heavier" stuff can pass. Alternatively go out in SBs only Kill targets of opportunity, avoid drawing attention from bigger fleets. In your target system: Assign one speed tank and dps per mission. Have scouts checking the systems around for early WT warnings [] Have fast tackle on gates to grab targets of opportunity [] Check for plexes in system This will allow you to: [] Gain standing via plexes and FW mission for higher FW mission agents [] Gain LPs via the missions [] Roam around for solo PvP [] Having scouts out independent from militia chat and on Eve Voice in Fleet [] Have back up for small gang in case solo isn't possible [] Take plexes and contest systems annoying the Amarr *[] As FC: Gives yourself an objective that can be achieved and the whole fleet a purpose, which you can announce so the whole fleet can work toward achieving your objective.** This whole operation doesnt need a lot of ppl. Feel free to grab ppl from trustworthy militia members (use common sense and take ppl who are a bit more patient) but make sure that your corpies are the dominant force (so never take more from the militia as you have corp mates in gang). The predominance of your own corp members allows you as FC to enforce your operation goals, while at the same time showing the militia/non corpies that plexes, FW missions and PvP can be combined to a fun operation with a goal rather than sitting hours on a gate. Although it significantly lowers your LP income and standing increase by sharing, this is still more than sitting on gate. You can speed this up by announcing such an operation a day ahead (feel free to use corp mail) so ppl can browse for good missions in your target system before you go out. FW mission will stay 24hours in your journal. Failing, not responding will not result in an standing loss. So rather than gate camping/station games/or aimless roaming around your fleet will have an target system(s) an objective, as well an incentive to PvP. If you as an player are the opinion that I in FW am earning to much ISK or better LP, feel free to shoot me! Im in low-sec! Not gate guns! No need for a scanner the beacon is visible to everybody, yes including neutrals! Hey! That would be like ... a SANDBOX ! Absolutely agree with you Garr and would merely add that the market itself is taking care of the earning potential of FW missions.
Neo Gabriel Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.25 08:32:00 - [54] Can we get a response about what are CCP's intentions on the FW missions before release? Lots of billions are at stake here. Just say if you are ending the ability to "browse" for missions or not. That's all I ask, PLEASE?
Misaki Yuuko	Posted - 2009.11.25 09:13:00 - [55] CCP is really trying hard to nerf all the npcing content to the point it is as much profitable as lvl4's in hisec but not more. Sad state of affairs.
Faelwenn Minarra Minmatar Czarna Kompania	Posted - 2009.11.25 10:27:00 - [56] Edited by: Faelwenn Minarra on 25/11/2009 10:28:09 Anyone knows if you can fail missions on sisi without standing loss? I mean not repeatably but once? It would be very hard to maintain standing because sometimes you are simply not able to complete missions (system camped, out of time etc.) in the short 12h expiration period.
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.25 12:56:00 - [57] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah ... In my very very very humble opinion. You are totally missing the original point of FW mission. You're comments on the FW round table were also so mindlessly shocking wrong that I was frozen for horror on how large your lack of understanding of what factional warfare is and could be and likely should be. ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Liisa Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.25 13:29:00 - [58] Edited by: Liisa on 25/11/2009 13:35:40 Originally by: Garr Anders Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah ... In my very very very humble opinion. You are totally missing the original point of FW mission. You're comments on the FW round table were also so mindlessly shocking wrong that I was frozen for horror on how large your lack of understanding of what factional warfare is and could be and likely should be. Just out of personal interest, what exactly is the original point of FW missions and would you please provide references for the uninitiated? edit I wanted to make sure that you understand that this is not a go at you, however, FW was introduced a while ago, so I fear that the original point of FW missions has slowly changed from what it actually was supposed to be into what people want to think FW missions are supposed to be. It would be nice to actually go back to basics and actually, truly, know what ccp envisioned with FW missions so that we can actually argue on the base of some fact instead of opinion.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2009.11.25 13:59:00 - [59] Edited by: Zarnak Wulf on 25/11/2009 13:59:57 FW makes more isk then highsec mission running. This is due to LP stores having key items that are much lower in LP cost. And I completely approve of that. Highsec mission running is ridiculous in nature. They are completely safe. The reprocessing of junk loot cuts into what miners do. LP's on top of the bounties and loot can give faction items. FW LP cut into that racket and the "inflation" hurts highsec mission runners. Let it go that way. If life were fair the loot drops would be cut by a factor of three to give the miners back their livelihood. As it stands now up to 40% of the minerals in the game come from drone regions or lvl 4 mission runners. If there are people who abuse the system - code around it. But lowsec should be better for isk production then high sec. You're running missions while getting shot at by opposing militia. Throw in some pirates for ****s and giggles. And nullsec should be king. That will be a work in progress through Dominion hopefully.
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.25 15:17:00 - [60] Originally by: Liisa ... Just out of personal interest, what exactly is the original point of FW missions and would you please provide references for the uninitiated? ... CCP originals point of making faction warfare in overall was (stated devblogs and interviews and posts): To ease on the step from PvE to PvP gameplay To get more people participate in a gameplay that Eve is so known for: PvP To help ppl organice around the different factions and play together rather than the common mistrust within the game due to the high amount of griefing and scamming, they even changed how war-decs and gangs worked for this To allow newer/lower skilled pilots to participate in PvP, with likely lower income and smaller ships - see gate restrictions on the plexes and missions. To populate low-sec by luring people with the right risk vs reward into wandering into low-sec, they even created a whole new region for it To get in general more ppl involved into PvP To have this within the sandbox game, not isolated, thus neutrals can interfere with FW(so they canhelp but also shoot aka RR targets in FW, you either have both or none) So players are going out into low-sec, visible for everybody, with NPC aggro on them and no gate or station guns into low-sec to complete this missions and now earn a little bit of LP. Isnt it the opposing factions duty/task to stop these players? Shouldnt the griefer rally in joy that they can "disrupt" others doing their missions because they are in low-sec? And CCP wanted to reward players playing FW with new faction ships and wanted to see them more used. So they introduced a discount and a new faction ships. If the rewards are to high, lower the reward, but "cherry picking" just gives the players options to dedicate their doings to a certain task - aka it becomes a tool in a sandbox useable by the players to create their own independent goals. Contributing to the occupancy game Making some ISK/LP Dedicate their roaming gang to a "primary objective" and a goal Pick missions that suite their ship (especially for newer/lower skilled pilots this is crucial) Stop gate camping and roam around looking for targets of opportunity Stop station whoring There was so far no indication that CCP has strayed away from their initial goals for FW and so far the incentives even being nothing FW moved a lot of players into PvP and low-sec. Now there is even a reward, a reward that might be to high due to one side not playing the game. So if there is an LP inflation LOWER THE REWARD. Cherry picking has nothing to do with that. ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983

HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.25 15:49:00 - [61] ok FW missions high range higher LP rewards - 10 jumps more LP than 3 jumps and less for 1 jump. Intriduces travel factor. Create balance keep missions but expand variance and rewards Introduce a 1-2 hour timer and sec hit for failing to many to quickly If tier one factional battleships become to expensive lower the LP cost. Example with domi introduce 2 classes perahps a standard naval issue version with 25% more HP across the board. And then a elite naval version with 50% extra HP shields hull and armour ( and other bonuses) do this with the other races and create more levels of factional ships for differing LP cost Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Liisa Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.25 16:13:00 - [62] Originally by: Garr Anders snip I asked about FW missions. You gave me a great answer about FW. You also gave great references where one could check your statements. You gave your opinion about certain things. ("Isnt it the opposing factions duty/task to stop these players?") I think you have fallen into the trap that I mentioned in my post. You are starting to see things as you think they should be, not as CCP wanted them to be.
Greg6	Posted - 2009.11.25 16:22:00 - [63] Heh. What a fun, and completely uninformative, read. FW missions have become a gold rush, anyone who's been paying attention can see that. Folk are chasing LP to such a point that they won't fight when the opportunity is there because it disrupts their isk/hour. While I don't have the hard data I'd like to make a firm opinion it certainly seems as if they have gotten out of balance and I, personally, would support making them more like regular high sec missions. I am amazed that CCP, after setting the amount of LP generated per kill at ridiculously low levels, set up this LP/isk generating machine for those who can stomach the endless jumps and mindless PVE. If they were so worried about folk using alts to farm kills for LP how did they miss the obvious LP farm FW missions would become? To really have an opinion I'd want to have access to data that only CCP has right now. But, assuming my gut is accurate and FW mission running produces multiples of lvl4 mission running isk/hour, then the I'd think it needs to be nerfed somehow. Could be the market will do it as it continues to be flooded with those LP store items (about 3 months ago we were selling things for 300M isk that are now going for 40M isk), could be CCP will do it. But none of us have any idea based on this thread at all, very entertaining. :)
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.25 16:28:00 - [64] Originally by: Liisa ... I think you have fallen into the trap that I mentioned in my post. You are starting to see things as you think they should be, not as CCP wanted them to be. Yes and no but I get your point. But if you have listend to the FW roundtable you can draw a suspicious line from what an ex CSM said toward this nerf. So it might be that somebody "closer" to the CCP might have tipped them into a direction that might need to be looked at (influx of LP into the system) and are now coming with a solution that is in the very essence counter productive to what CCP orignally wanted, while there is a very very very easy way to rebalance the LP influx into the game without compromising what FW should have been in the first place. An incentive to get ppl into PvP. ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Vera Thiam Caldari Zen Gaming	Posted - 2009.11.25 16:55:00 - [65] As the 'Decline' penelty is now in force on Sisi - you can only reject 1 mission every 4 hours otherwise you get a -1 standing hit to the corp, one would imagine this is now going to be introduced into Dominion? Can CCP confirm or deny??? How is this going to effect both the running/farming of the missions and/or the price of the Tier 1 Navy ships upon release?? People with +2m LP (and I know a lot of player have much more) are going to have alot of Navy ships to sell, will the price be bumped to compensate for the effective end of selective mission running or will it be a fire fight to sell sell sell to minamise loss time isk/ph of month of grinding. Discuss?
Nobani Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.25 17:27:00 - [66] Edited by: Nobani on 25/11/2009 17:33:36 Originally by: Zarnak Wulf If there are people who abuse the system - code around it. But lowsec should be better for isk production then high sec. You're running missions while getting shot at by opposing militia. Throw in some pirates for **s and giggles. And nullsec should be king. That will be a work in progress through Dominion hopefully. The new 0.0 content might be marginally more profitable than L4 mission running, but only after grinding up to the top level and paying for sov. So I don't think CCP agrees with you on how content should be balanced. Quote:** The biggest change to resources that will happen in Dominion 1.0 is that players owning space in 0.0 space will be able to upgrade the density so that more people can live in a given system. The income however isn't being increased much over what players can get from level 4 mission in the initial point release so we don't expect a massive exodus of people out of empire space or a massive change in the influx of money or resources. We're going to watch how the resource upgrades take hold and iterate on them. The majority of the upgrades revolve around exploration content and we have plans to boost that content, but not until we let players get used to the system and we're sure we're not going to crash the economy.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2009.11.25 17:31:00 - [67] Edited by: Zarnak Wulf on 25/11/2009 17:33:41 Originally by: Greg6 Heh. What a fun, and completely uninformative, read. FW missions have become a gold rush, anyone who's been paying attention can see that. Folk are chasing LP to such a point that they won't fight when the opportunity is there because it disrupts their isk/hour. While I don't have the hard data I'd like to make a firm opinion it certainly seems as if they have gotten out of balance and I, personally, would support making them more like regular high sec missions. I am amazed that CCP, after setting the amount of LP generated per kill at ridiculously low levels, set up this LP/isk generating machine for those who can stomach the endless jumps and mindless PVE. If they were so worried about folk using alts to farm kills for LP how did they miss the obvious LP farm FW missions would become? To really have an opinion I'd want to have access to data that only CCP has right now. But, assuming my gut is accurate and FW mission running produces multiples of lvl4 mission running isk/hour, then the I'd think it needs to be nerfed somehow. Could be the market will do it as it continues to be flooded with those LP store items (about 3 months ago we were selling things for 300M isk that are now going for 40M isk), could be CCP will do it. But none of us have any idea based on this thread at all, very entertaining. :) I don't want to see low sec have "missions like highsec." These are gunboat style and I like them. You can't do an Angel extravaganza in lowsec while at war. You probably mean in terms of reward - and that also isn't fair. You should get rewarded for taking risks. If anything I would propose bringing the LP for missions down but cranking it up for kills instead. Farmers would hate this. It would reward FW while having the vision of not nerfing the missions to obscurity.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2009.11.25 17:40:00 - [68] Originally by: Nobani Edited by: Nobani on 25/11/2009 17:33:36 Originally by: Zarnak Wulf If there are people who abuse the system - code around it. But lowsec should be better for isk production then high sec. You're running missions while getting shot at by opposing militia. Throw in some pirates for **s and giggles. And nullsec should be king. That will be a work in progress through Dominion hopefully. The new 0.0 content might be marginally more profitable than L4 mission running, but only after grinding up to the top level and paying for sov. So I don't think CCP agrees with you on how content should be balanced. Quote:** The biggest change to resources that will happen in Dominion 1.0 is that players owning space in 0.0 space will be able to upgrade the density so that more people can live in a given system. The income however isn't being increased much over what players can get from level 4 mission in the initial point release so we don't expect a massive exodus of people out of empire space or a massive change in the influx of money or resources. We're going to watch how the resource upgrades take hold and iterate on them. The majority of the upgrades revolve around exploration content and we have plans to boost that content, but not until we let players get used to the system and we're sure we're not going to crash the economy. We can just keep chipping away at it. The LP stores should be redone. Guns that require 100 tags are a bit silly. FW and lowsec should offer higher rewards and I think that the LP militia store changes were a good start. I don't want to see it nerfed. Give more LP for killing enemy militia for example and tweak the missions. And how hard would it be after that to put an LP store in nullsec for kills in PvP? New faction items that only exist in nullsec and are even cheaper. Make that part of Dominion 1.2. There's lots of ideas that can be implemented. But again, we can only offer ideas and keep chipping away at them.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.25 19:04:00 - [69] Originally by: Vera Thiam As the 'Decline' penelty is now in force on Sisi - you can only reject 1 mission every 4 hours otherwise you get a -1 standing hit to the corp, one would imagine this is now going to be introduced into Dominion? Can CCP confirm or deny??? How is this going to effect both the running/farming of the missions and/or the price of the Tier 1 Navy ships upon release?? People with +2m LP (and I know a lot of player have much more) are going to have alot of Navy ships to sell, will the price be bumped to compensate for the effective end of selective mission running or will it be a fire fight to sell sell sell to minamise loss time isk/ph of month of grinding. Discuss? So i guess FW LP for ISK ratio just skyrocketed, heh? Think it will take circa 3 months to dump all farmed ships on the marked but after than we will see another bottleneck :)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.25 21:25:00 - [70] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Vera Thiam As the 'Decline' penelty is now in force on Sisi - you can only reject 1 mission every 4 hours otherwise you get a -1 standing hit to the corp, one would imagine this is now going to be introduced into Dominion? Can CCP confirm or deny??? How is this going to effect both the running/farming of the missions and/or the price of the Tier 1 Navy ships upon release?? People with +2m LP (and I know a lot of player have much more) are going to have alot of Navy ships to sell, will the price be bumped to compensate for the effective end of selective mission running or will it be a fire fight to sell sell sell to minamise loss time isk/ph of month of grinding. Discuss? So i guess FW LP for ISK ratio just skyrocketed, heh? Think it will take circa 3 months to dump all farmed ships on the marked but after than we will see another bottleneck :) Dial a mission got the nerfbat? woo hoo! \o/ Now my lp reserve will be worth zillions instead of billions. You da man CCP! Also even if they do nerf dial a mission with top social skills and a good agent you will still be able to pull in a decent amount of lp from a solo bomber point of view. At least enough per day to get a faction ship of your choice which is still pretty damn good considering how long it takes to grind lp from an empire agent especially with the increased lp price of the empire stores. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.

Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:03:00 - [71] I think ill go back to trading/market speculation :) Was fun till it lasted but rly cba to sit 24/7 in system in hopes of getting decent mission (aka: not killing starbases) closer than 18 jumps :)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:30:00 - [72] Wait, isn't everyone and his bomber alt farming fw lp for the navy ships basically doing it based on market speculation of future trades? Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:33:00 - [73] Smart people just wait for market warfare to start and will earn isk from it ;p During gold rush sell shovels and pickaxes :)
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:56:00 - [74] Oh you must mean all those hounds, mods and faction ammo I dumped on the market near amarr fw space. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.11.26 00:41:00 - [75] Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 26/11/2009 00:43:18 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Unfortunately the sad truth is that casual player will always suffer due to these "powergamers" which find quick and dirty ways to run these missions many times more efficiently than you can and pull countless billions out of it. The "But I want to cherrypick" is a weak excuse, if that is valid, I want "Recon" in highsec all day long as well, and the ability to skip all vs. faction and vs. drones missions as well because they lower my average income. We need to look at the big picture and not our personal interests. I agree that the missions in their old form are not worth it, hence I lobbied strongly for reducing the standing penalty and rake up the rewards. But CCP went completely to the other extreme, and removed all penalties alltogether which was extremely silly and stupid, as every game designer should have been able to predict what would happen next. You are a massive idiot - RL gender notwitstanding. Powergamers exist only because of 2 possibilities; either free time or spotting a loophole - and in the case of FW missions ... both, which are quickly closed anyway, so this loophole will be closed no doubt. As for keeping neutrals out of missions, go back to WoW. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.11.26 03:52:00 - [76] Originally by: Neo Gabriel And while we are at it, maybe you should allow for plexes completed in contested systems to give LP payouts similar to missions. I was thinking 10-30K lp shared between the capping fleet, depending on plex size, but make sure you can't solo the plex and you have to kill all the rats tp prevent exploits. There's nothing wrong with soloing a plex if you are able. You just shouldn't be able to solo it while cloaked, or in a WCS 'run away' ship. Having to kill the rats is a good solution, I think.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.26 03:57:00 - [77] Originally by: Ulstan You just shouldn't be able to solo it while cloaked Its kinda hard to target and kill the mission objective whilst cloaked. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Ulstan	Posted - 2009.11.26 04:05:00 - [78] Originally by: Greg6 But, assuming my gut is accurate and FW mission running produces multiples of lvl4 mission running isk/hour, then the I'd think it needs to be nerfed somehow. Why do people say stuff like this? Of course FW low sec missions should be better than hi sec L4 missions. That should go without saying. They should be much better. We want low sec missions that attract people compared to hi sec missions. Secondly, the LP is 100% self adjusting and no nerf from CCP is needed. The market will automatically adjust the value of those LP in isk to how hard it is to obtain said LP. If it truly is an easy gold rush, as some are claiming, the LP will fast become worth very little. We've seen this market adjustment for LP for L4 missions, what makes you think it won't apply to FW missions?
Neo Gabriel Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.26 05:22:00 - [79] That's the problem right there! I don't want the LP payout to be worthless because everyone and their mother has millions of LP. It has to be made somehow so that there has to be some actual effort on the part of the missioner. Right now we go in select a mission of choice around the systems we want to run them for the best l4 agents and spend 1-2 hours farming them. There is no "effort" except you have to keep your eyes in local, scanner open and an alt to scout the acceleration gates and through the stargates when moving with mission ship between systems. Every now and then someone tries to jump your mission to get an easy kill but if you keep eyes on the scanner you have enough notice to Safe up before its too late. Everyone has their missioning garden. I am familiar with the gardens in the Caldari-Gallente FW space and who farms them, what ships they use and how much they make. People use stabbed Intys or Cloaky ships to pick up their missions and no one has time to fight anymore. It is a mad gold rush that will enable all of us to buy Cap Ships and not have to farm lvl4s in highsec to pay for our PVP addiction for a long time, but meanwhile FW has died and we are in a carebearing sabbath. It would be much better to force people to accept whatever mission you are given. It will force people to move in wolfpacks of PVP fit ships to run everyone's missions all around the faction war space. This would force fleets to roam to accomplish their missions and get people booty. Now I can already think of ways to somewhat go around that, but it wouldn't make things as ridiculous and lame as they are right now. Plus, it would be much harder to farm LP and thus the value would go up, so everybody wins. I think it would be much better if LP payout for kills was multiplied by at least a factor of 10 and integrate FW plex and missioning into a single system where people are rewarded for participating in it. Have Plex spawn randomly in border systems and people can go and fight for them so they can earn LP for completing objectives (Ie. Defend the Starbase for 2 hours, Destroy this Relay within 1.5hr, Capture the flag in this system and bring it back to this one within 3 hours, etc., and make sure there is a payout math that discourages blobbing so that there isn't a case of having 10 gallentes hold off 100 caldari, etc). Everyone saying things should stay as they are... They are saying so because they have found their isk printing machine and don't want to disturb it. This is massively unbalanced and something has to be done about it. Whatever you do CCP, please try to get the feedback and participation of everyone involved with faction wars... The big Corps on all sides that fight it, the pirates that live in it and the player base that thrives in it. And please, PLEASE give a definitive answer on the "mission browsing" issue so that we an act accordingly.
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.26 07:28:00 - [80] Edited by: Garr Anders on 26/11/2009 07:12:27 Edited by: Garr Anders on 26/11/2009 07:05:50 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Edited by: Ankhesentapemkah on 25/11/2009 23:56:28 Originally by: T'san Manaan quick CCP nerf AFK domis someones usintg them as a "free ISK" button As soon as they make more than 100 mil isk per hour and ruins the spirit of a whole aspect of EVE, I'd be the first one to support that. Originally by: Lusulpher Damn, FW missions are the least of 3 exploited and unbalanced ISK faucets(LvL4s in highsec, moongold!, in that order). ... Being able to choose target system and objective would equal AVOIDING PvP at ALL COSTS. ------- For clarity lets gather some facts: LvL4 mission: generate instant ISK as reward. LvL4 mission: generate LP as reward. Lvl4 mission: generate instant ISK with NPCs bounties. LvL4 mission: are done in high-sec. LvL4 mission: if somebody shoots/steals you, concord will kill him. LvL4 mission: any neutral will have to scan you down first LvL4 mission: can be done AFK LvL4 mission: can generate more than 100mil instant ISK per hour if done with an ALT (loot, salvage, dualboxing) LvL4 mission: can be done without any PvP LvL4 mission: You only can decline missions every 4 hours without a standig loss editLvL4 missoin: Can be done in an NPC Corp safe from wardecs. A huge ISK faucet in the game will cause inflation. There is no way for the market to adapt to this in another way. Factional warfare: missions do not generate ISK. Factional warfare: missions only generate LP as reward. Factional warfare: do not have bounties on the NPCs Factional warfare: are done in low-sec Factional warfare: if somebody shoots you, you have to shoot back yourself or die Factional warfare: a beacon is visible to everybody, WTs, pirates, neutral Factional warfare: mission can not be done AFK Factional warfare: can generate a large amount of LP with an ALT Factional warfare: can try to avoid PvP Factional warfare: you can deline missions without standing loss everytime edit Factional warfare: I am a wartarget A huge LP faucet in the game will lower the cost of faction items. The LP to ISK conversion will drop till the supply reaches a steady flow and the market will adjust. ---------------- Farming is done when something is so profitable that you do it repeatedly. If farming factional warfare missions for profit becomes lower than what you can do with something else with the same amount of effort ppl will stop farming factional warfare missions. If you want to stop farming, lower the LP reward. ---------------- Im not even arguing that the factional warfare reward is to high. Im not even arguing that lvl4 missions should get a lower reward either. I just want - "driven by personal interest" - to be able to decline missions everytime I want without taking a standing hit. And why? So I can - "driven by personal interest" - give my missions together with my fleet a target system of my choice rather than roam aimlessly around: Giving your FW fleet a purpose: FW mission, plexing and PvP in one. ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983

Neo Gabriel Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate	Posted - 2009.11.26 10:54:00 - [81] Something that has been bothering me and people I play with is that this Isk faucet is ruining faction warfare... people are not roaming or pvping anymore, people just farm these missions nonstop, because how dare you ask me to stop my LP grind for some trivial killmails... Don't you understand I need this so I can afford to buy another 2 carriers and be free of hi-sec lvl4s for years to come? If you don't do something about this ccp you are gonna kill FW for good. Faction war before used to be something exciting, log in after work and join a fleet roaming, ship up to BC or RR BS to counter the enemy fleet spotted and set up camps, give chase... The adrenaline rush of victory over insurmountable odds and the feeling of loss when you lose your ship, but somehow understand that your loss made a big difference for a victory, or even sometimes the sadness of a lost ship to being ganked by pirates, but even then there was the chance of a great even fight where skill and cunning dictated the outcome, even if your fleet ended up smothered. Frigate roams that killed a lone pirate Battleship, fights in planets at Zero when suddenly a pirate fleet lands on top and wrecks havoc. The odd out Pirate Carrier Hotdrop on top of the 150man FW slugfest that scatters everyone to the four corners of the system. This hasn't happened in the last months and pvp is ever scarcer with this Isk printing attention leech badly thought out system turning people into farming drones. Fix it already!
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.26 11:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Neo Gabriel Something that has been bothering me and people I play with is that this Isk faucet is ruining faction warfare... people are not roaming or pvping anymore, people just farm these missions nonstop, because how dare you ask me to stop my LP grind for some trivial killmails... Don't you understand I need this so I can afford to buy another 2 carriers and be free of hi-sec lvl4s for years to come? If you don't do something about this ccp you are gonna kill FW for good. Faction war before used to be something exciting, log in after work and join a fleet roaming, ship up to BC or RR BS to counter the enemy fleet spotted and set up camps, give chase... The adrenaline rush of victory over insurmountable odds and the feeling of loss when you lose your ship, but somehow understand that your loss made a big difference for a victory, or even sometimes the sadness of a lost ship to being ganked by pirates, but even then there was the chance of a great even fight where skill and cunning dictated the outcome, even if your fleet ended up smothered. Frigate roams that killed a lone pirate Battleship, fights in planets at Zero when suddenly a pirate fleet lands on top and wrecks havoc. The odd out Pirate Carrier Hotdrop on top of the 150man FW slugfest that scatters everyone to the four corners of the system. This hasn't happened in the last months and pvp is ever scarcer with this Isk printing attention leech badly thought out system turning people into farming drones. Fix it already! Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Sarahs labrat	Posted - 2009.11.26 14:30:00 - [83] No 'pick your missions' anymore , means no more mission done for T1 battleships. So 500m for a T1 navy ship on pre order now Price days after the patch = ?? Price after 2 weeks = ??? Price after 1 month = ??? Price after 3 months = ?? I personally feel that there will be a big glut dumpped astraight after patch and the price will drop ALOT and after 3 months I beleive they will be selling for a song.
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.26 15:28:00 - [84] Somebody got feedback on this from Sisi ? Originally by: X Gallentius Will the proposed changed reduce FW mission rewards so that they are below high sec mission runner's income? Originally by: Insa Rexion Also I have a question as someone who didn't run these missions until after apoc 1.5. Did failure to complete the missions inside the 12 hour window result in a standings hit as declining or quitting did ? ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Insa Rexion Minmatar CTRL-Q	Posted - 2009.11.26 15:41:00 - [85] You'll prolly get someone say "waaaaa crossposting " so I'll ask the question here myself. Before the FW mission changes in Apoc 1.5 did failure to complete the missions inside the 12 hour window result in a standings hit as declining or quitting did ?
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.26 15:55:00 - [86] someone saing crossposting will occour but if the topics are related go for it. After the FW chagnes in apoc 1.5 did i become easier to fail or ignore missions in a 12 window without takign a fairly largehit And will this be a good thing or a bad thing for the availablity of factional mods and ships Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Raimo Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.11.26 16:12:00 - [87] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Deva Blackfire Originally by: Zeba Originally by: chatgris but seeing a ton of bombers "risk" lowsec running level 4's solo is nuts. Especially since only some factions can run them that way, and others cannot. Which factions level 4 can't be run solo in an ab bomber with medium extender and range rigs? Amarr. When minmaturds paint your ass you can die in less than a few seconds. Lol no.. Read my virtual eft lips and bask in the glory and awesomeness that is fw lp whooring for navy ships in a bomber. Manage your transversal and you will barely take any damage. Screw up your transversal and die horribly. [Hound, Amarr LP Whoorage] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Micro Auxiliary Power Core I 1MN Afterburner II Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Medium Shield Extender II 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo 'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo Covert Ops Cloaking Device II [empty high slot] Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I It seems nobody mentioned it, Gallente, pretty much. The ECM amounts are ridiculous, drone boats are ok with it of course, but fit properly not really suited for solo losec roaming. Join RvB!
Greg6	Posted - 2009.11.26 17:05:00 - [88] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf ... I don't want to see low sec have "missions like highsec." .... You probably mean in terms of reward - and that also isn't fair. You should get rewarded for taking risks. If anything I would propose bringing the LP for missions down but cranking it up for kills instead. Farmers would hate this. It would reward FW while having the vision of not nerfing the missions to obscurity. Well see there's this thing called game balance. The isk rewards for FW missions should bear some relation to the isk rewards for lvl 4 mission running. If the difference is too great then folk will choose only one or the other. Now I'm not saying that they should be identical. I agree the higher risk of lower sec operations should carry a higher reward. It's just how much higher? Twice as much? Four times as much? 10? 100? 1,000,000,000,000 times? There has to be some point where we'd all agree it's out of whack. Where that point exactly is and where FW isk generating actually rests, relative to lvl 4s, are both unknowns. I will say this; at the current levels I personally know of more than one member of FW who are doing just about nothing but running FW missions and making billions of iks per day of game play (call it about 4 to 6 hours.) That's a hell of a lot more than they were able to make via running missions, by a factor of 5 to 10, on a guess. Seems high to me, but again I'd have to have access to some data behind the black curtain to really have an opinion. And, I'd agree with increasing LP rewards for kills. If they are worried about exploiters then put a time limit on LP rewards any given character's death can provide (say a pay out every 10 minutes or so) and let fly. It couldn't inject any more cash into the system, any more quickly, than this FW mission salad bar experiment has provided.
Greg6	Posted - 2009.11.26 17:13:00 - [89] Originally by: Ulstan .... Why do people say stuff like this? Same reason why folk reply with stuff like yours. They think they have an insight. That thought isn't always accurate, on either side of the thinking line. See my other post, or read the first one again. I'm not saying that fw missions should be identical to hi sec lvl 4 missions. I am saying the relation between them currently seems to be out of wack. I'm also saying that, really, only CCP has a data pool of sufficient size and robustness to really know. And that, it wasn't hard to predict this outcome once the FW mission salad bar was introduced. ... Originally by: Ulstan .... We've seen this market adjustment for LP for L4 missions, what makes you think it won't apply to FW missions? I never said it wouldn't. In fact the market self correcting was one of the possibilities I listed and I've been predicting a market crash in game for months. Sorry but I'd have to say your reading for understanding, of my posts, wasn't as effective as one might like...
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.26 18:13:00 - [90] Originally by: Greg6 I will say this; at the current levels I personally know of more than one member of FW who are doing just about nothing but running FW missions and making billions of iks per day of game play (call it about 4 to 6 hours.) That's a hell of a lot more than they were able to make via running missions, by a factor of 5 to 10, on a guess. Seems high to me, but again I'd have to have access to some data behind the black curtain to really have an opinion. Thing is FW LP will be auto balanced by... EVE market. If people farm too much and get tens of milions of LPs they can either ditch them all into FW rewards and sell those = price will go down. Or throttle LP reward sales... in which case they are also earning less (more per piece but less pieces sold = similiar results). In current case (ccp "nerfing" FW missions) the only result ccp made is increased FW LP value. People will still have 2 choices: selling all at once or slowly bit by bit. But in both cases they will earn more if they did it pre-dominion because... LP will be now harder to come by. Quote: And, I'd agree with increasing LP rewards for kills. If they are worried about exploiters then put a time limit on LP rewards any given character's death can provide (say a pay out every 10 minutes or so) and let fly. It couldn't inject any more cash into the system, any more quickly, than this FW mission salad bar experiment has provided. Helluva agreed on this one. Also LPs for capping FW plexes (that was one of my biggest disappointments when i joined FW).

Raimo Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.11.26 18:31:00 - [91] Originally by: Greg6 I will say this; at the current levels I personally know of more than one member of FW who are doing just about nothing but running FW missions and making billions of iks per day of game play (call it about 4 to 6 hours.) Now that's a slight exaggeration I'd say. Dunno what it was like right after 1.5 though, I wasn't in FW then. Join RvB!
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.26 19:29:00 - [92] Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 26/11/2009 00:43:18 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Unfortunately the sad truth is that casual player will always suffer due to these "powergamers" which find quick and dirty ways to run these missions many times more efficiently than you can and pull countless billions out of it. The "But I want to cherrypick" is a weak excuse, if that is valid, I want "Recon" in highsec all day long as well, and the ability to skip all vs. faction and vs. drones missions as well because they lower my average income. We need to look at the big picture and not our personal interests. I agree that the missions in their old form are not worth it, hence I lobbied strongly for reducing the standing penalty and rake up the rewards. But CCP went completely to the other extreme, and removed all penalties alltogether which was extremely silly and stupid, as every game designer should have been able to predict what would happen next. You are a massive idiot - RL gender notwitstanding. Powergamers exist only because of 2 possibilities; either free time or spotting a loophole - and in the case of FW missions ... both, which are quickly closed anyway, so this loophole will be closed no doubt. As for keeping neutrals out of missions, go back to WoW. Actually she had a valid point, since the powergamers brought down the amount (autobalance) and value (by flooding the market with LP store items) of LPs and therefore ruin the game for regular or casual players. You lack the intelligence to understand that though. What you call loopholes were intentionally created game features and nothing has been fixed quickly, people gathered millions of LP in short time, i know someone who made over 50 billion isk and still have ****load of LP left for the Dominion items. Things like this kill the game, someone who is mining in empire for his 20mil/hour with the potential risk to lose his ship to just-for-fun-suicide-gankers or someone who trained months for his mission battleships and invested hundreds of millions isk in it in order to do 40 mil/hour with regular missions, will feel snubbed by this imbalance, as that 150mil/hour FW missions (with not much risk and need of skills) make him feel like an idiot and his time and efforts worthless.
Raimo Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.11.26 19:37:00 - [93] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Things like this kill the game, someone who is mining in empire for his 20mil/hour with the potential risk to lose his ship to just-for-fun-suicide-gankers or someone who trained months for his mission battleships and invested hundreds of millions isk in it in order to do 40 mil/hour with regular missions, will feel snubbed by this imbalance, as that 150mil/hour FW missions (with not much risk and need of skills) make him feel like an idiot and his time and efforts worthless. Rightly so (the feeling idiot bit), for not leaving hisec to do them. Now it's out in the opinion and that "regular joe" can rage at CCP that he cannot join the fun :P Also disagree on the skills needed bit, at least for gallente the SP/ LP relation is somewhat similar than in regular lvl4's comparatively. I need a good-ish PVP fit to put it another way, with high skills. (or low skills and pimping but that would be folly in low sec) Join RvB!
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.26 19:41:00 - [94] Originally by: Garr Anders For clarity lets gather some facts: Generate up to 40 million isk per hour and account require decent skills for that require a faction battleship or modules (as otherwise it's less than 40 mil/h LvL4 mission: You only can decline missions every 4 hours without a standig loss editLvL4 missoin: Can be done in an NPC Corp safe from wardecs but you will have to pay 11% tax to NPCs. vs Factional warfare: missions net you up to 150 mil/hour or even more. Factional warfare: missions don't require high skills, do them with a trash alt Factional warfare: missions don't require an expensive ship, one mission pays you more than your mission ship costs Fixed that for you.
Tarron Sarek Gallente Biotronics Inc. Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.11.26 20:39:00 - [95] Basically it comes down to feeling stupid for playing the game for fun and in a way it was probably meant to be played, instead of investing the same time trying to figure out ways to break and exploit it. It's not only a matter of can or can't. It's primarily a matter of want and don't want. Hell yeah, let's all join the loophole-bandwagon, feel 1337 and see how long the game will handle it.. No, not happening, at least not for me. But I might very well lose interest if that kind of gameplay is being encouraged. ___________________________________ Balance is power, ~~guard~~ hide it well "Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam"
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.26 21:07:00 - [96] .... but... but ... but ... I dont mind CCP lowering the reward. I just want to pick the target system it is in. Mal: Hell, this job I would pull for free. Zoe: Then can I have your share? Mal: No! Zoe: If you die can I have your share? Mal: Yes. They can lower the reward done to pre boost, or 1% of it, I dont mind. I just want to pick the target system! ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.26 21:49:00 - [97] Edited by: Zeba on 26/11/2009 21:50:32 Originally by: Tarron Sarek Basically it comes down to feeling stupid for playing the game for fun and in a way it was probably meant to be played, instead of investing the same time trying to figure out ways to break and exploit it. Ummm no one is exploiting anything as its all condoned by ccp and anyone at all in the entire eve universe can join in on the lp wagon if they have a 0.5 standing to the faction of their choice. Now what might be changed is the dial a mission mechanic as it seems to have achieved its goal of getting people interested in running fw missions and making sure there will be plenty of the new navy hulls for people to buy at whatever price the market demands on launch. So as long as the only thing ccp changes about fw missions is dial a mission then players will still be able to run them in whatever fashion they run them now just at a reduced lp rate because you won't be able to cherry pick for distance and rewards. As it stands a competant player can easily pull in 100k+lp in an hour of play which beats down normal level 5 mission rewards with a spike studded titanium bat due to the rather large difference in lp store prices so did you guys really think it would last forever? Only a few days left so hurry and get those last few mil of lp stored away before ccp closes down the gravy train. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.27 00:35:00 - [98] There are no exploits that arent allowed by ccp. The entire universe as u say can joini i. The getting people to run fw missions is one thing. But yes ensuring if i want to buy a navy domi for example is im not paying more than a pirate version is the key. Just increase the risk rewards a bit on some. But yes grind those missions now get it all ocked up and give us versions post dominion Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.27 11:19:00 - [99] No reply or statement from CCP regarding their intent or opinion? ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.27 11:29:00 - [100] No time to reply as they sort thro the statements to make after the patch, the intent as is in the dominion buil at the moment on sisi Bring on planetary interaction Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00

Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.27 11:45:00 - [101] Originally by: Garr Anders No reply or statement from CCP regarding their intent or opinion? Same here. Id like to hear some info regarding this.
Greg6	Posted - 2009.11.27 17:53:00 - [102] Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Greg6 I will say this; at the current levels I personally know of more than one member of FW who are doing just about nothing but running FW missions and making billions of iks per day of game play (call it about 4 to 6 hours.) Now that's a slight exaggeration I'd say. Dunno what it was like right after 1.5 though, I wasn't in FW then. Actually, no, it's not. And that's rather the point. :)
Raimo Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.11.27 18:21:00 - [103] Originally by: Greg6 Actually, no, it's not. And that's rather the point. :) Well, I only have knowledge of the last few weeks, and based on that you have a significant "s" too much there IMHO. Like I said, I dunno what it was before the autoleveling and market saturation started bringing rewards down. (if that indeed happened) - But even with my estimated income (somewhere around a billion ISK per 4-6 hours I'd think is pretty common) it is probably the most profitable NPC killing activity around, maybe deserving of a nerf :P And indeed we would all get mostly back to PVP, about time! Join RvB!
Sarahs labrat	Posted - 2009.11.27 18:39:00 - [104] Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Greg6 Actually, no, it's not. And that's rather the point. :) Well, I only have knowledge of the last few weeks, and based on that you have a significant "s" too much there IMHO. Like I said, I dunno what it was before the autoleveling and market saturation started bringing rewards down. (if that indeed happened) - But even with my estimated income (somewhere around a billion ISK per 4-6 hours I'd think is pretty common) it is probably the most profitable NPC killing activity around, maybe deserving of a nerf :P And indeed we would all get mostly back to PVP, about time! Where do u get your figure of 1b isk per 4-6hrs? How can you define these LP v's Isk?? Not saying it isnt true but find it hard to work out how much my XXM LP are worth or going to be worth? I have been working on 500m per 150k (BS pre order prices)
Raimo Wrath of Fenris	Posted - 2009.11.27 18:42:00 - [105] Originally by: Sarahs labrat Originally by: Raimo Originally by: Greg6 Actually, no, it's not. And that's rather the point. :) Well, I only have knowledge of the last few weeks, and based on that you have a significant "s" too much there IMHO. Like I said, I dunno what it was before the autoleveling and market saturation started bringing rewards down. (if that indeed happened) - But even with my estimated income (somewhere around a billion ISK per 4-6 hours I'd think is pretty common) it is probably the most profitable NPC killing activity around, maybe deserving of a nerf :P And indeed we would all get mostly back to PVP, about time! Where do u get your figure of 1b isk per 4-6hrs? How can you define these LP v's Isk?? Not saying it isnt true but find it hard to work out how much my XXM LP are worth or going to be worth? I have been working on 500m per 150k (BS pre order prices) It's 450m per 150k LP ish (minus the expenses of the T1 hull and the nexus chip) I've already sold most of my LP, for a bit better ISK/LP ratio for the most part ;) I lose if LP value skyrockets postpatch but them are the breaks, I'm ok with that gamble... Join RvB!
Sarahs labrat	Posted - 2009.11.27 19:04:00 - [106] Well it must be been in Minni FW and getting the 'hardest' (a reletivly loose term I know :P) rats/missions to kill I am only getting 150/200k per 6 hours which equals to 100m isk per hour, that is it based on 500m a BS. I personally think the price will crash post patch down to about 300/400m for a navy BS with the market flooded. BUT I think the price will steadly increase as CCP nerf the 'select a mission' and the availablity of the T1 Navy BS (as they are only avalilable through FW agents) declines as people will not bother flying 20 jumps for a reletivly small amount of LP the price of a Navy T1 BS will climb and imho overtake the prices of pirate BS which will/are alot easier to get. Are the FW missions easy - Yes Are the rewards vs LP to high - Yes Are we going to flood the market with T1 Navy BS - Yes Is nerfing the select a mission to much of a smack with a nerf bat - Yes Should they relook at number of LP points per mission or the numer of LP per item - YES IMHO it is a very easy way for CCP to get ALOT of a certain set of Items into the market quickly before taking away/vastly reducing the ease at which you can then gain them by doing the one thing which will certainly stop people doing them.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.27 19:09:00 - [107] So at 450m per 150k LP adding the expenses of the t1 hull and chip we are looking at 700m at the very lease for theese tier 1 navy ships which really bang for buck u can get a fully fitted t1 bs with faction gear or even t1 and overheat for much less. Mmm ah well sales will be low. Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.28 11:06:00 - [108] Well since most minni boats are easily outperformed by others, the rarity of having one and selling one will keep em high I think. To cash in on ISK you ll likely have to go for caldari, gallente or FOTM amarr. Anyway CCP feedback ? Anything ? ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.28 23:58:00 - [109] Originally by: Patch Notes Declining Factional Warfare missions more often than once every 4 hours will now (once again) incur a standings loss, as with all other type of agent missions. Better get those last few mil of dial a mission lp whilst you can. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc Beyond Virginity	Posted - 2009.11.29 00:07:00 - [110] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Muad' Dib Edited by: Muad'' Dib on 26/11/2009 00:43:18 Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah Unfortunately the sad truth is that casual player will always suffer due to these "powergamers" which find quick and dirty ways to run these missions many times more efficiently than you can and pull countless billions out of it. The "But I want to cherrypick" is a weak excuse, if that is valid, I want "Recon" in highsec all day long as well, and the ability to skip all vs. faction and vs. drones missions as well because they lower my average income. We need to look at the big picture and not our personal interests. I agree that the missions in their old form are not worth it, hence I lobbied strongly for reducing the standing penalty and rake up the rewards. But CCP went completely to the other extreme, and removed all penalties alltogether which was extremely silly and stupid, as every game designer should have been able to predict what would happen next. You are a massive idiot - RL gender notwitstanding. Powergamers exist only because of 2 possibilities; either free time or spotting a loophole - and in the case of FW missions ... both, which are quickly closed anyway, so this loophole will be closed no doubt. As for keeping neutrals out of missions, go back to WoW. Actually she had a valid point, since the powergamers brought down the amount (autobalance) and value (by flooding the market with LP store items) of LPs and therefore ruin the game for regular or casual players. You lack the intelligence to understand that though. What you call loopholes were intentionally created game features and nothing has been fixed quickly, people gathered millions of LP in short time, i know someone who made over 50 billion isk and still have ****load of LP left for the Dominion items. Things like this kill the game, someone who is mining in empire for his 20mil/hour with the potential risk to lose his ship to just-for-fun-suicide-gankers or someone who trained months for his mission battleships and invested hundreds of millions isk in it in order to do 40 mil/hour with regular missions, will feel snubbed by this imbalance, as that 150mil/hour FW missions (with not much risk and need of skills) make him feel like an idiot and his time and efforts worthless. The persons whom you mention are individuals who like to stay in safe and cozy places with little risk. You do not have to be suicided as a miner, you do not have to be suicided as mission runner, provided you know what your doing - here's a hint ... don't run missions in Motsu/Dodi and don't invest over 500m isk in droppable mods. With FW missions there was no-one to hold their hands, no guide to check. PERVS started doing them first and from their hints on these forums roughly 6 weeks ago everyone else learned. They are anything but safe - beacon lights up and ceptors do sometimes hunt you, and to top that to really do them fast you need 2 reasonably well specced chars. Things that may kill a game like EVE will be the ideea of 'instanced dungeons', which is something that most long-term EVE players hate and loath. --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !

Naye Nathaniel	Posted - 2009.11.29 00:30:00 - [111] Haha really nice :] <3 CCP u screwed faction warfare missions :) Now i'ts better to farm lv 4 missions in Motsu for twice more LP needed than fly 15j in one way to kill about 20 NPCs and being targeted by WF in your "cheap" ship ;) But hey its cool also, after a week, when everyone will spend theirs LP, the faction Navy Scorp would be worth like 2b and CNR for 1b or even 2b also xD CCP u made my day!
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.29 00:41:00 - [112] Originally by: Naye Nathaniel Haha really nice :] <3 CCP u screwed faction warfare missions :) Now i'ts better to farm lv 4 missions in Motsu for twice more LP needed than fly 15j in one way to kill about 20 NPCs and being targeted by WF in your "cheap" ship ;) But hey its cool also, after a week, when everyone will spend theirs LP, the faction Navy Scorp would be worth like 2b and CNR for 1b or even 2b also xD CCP u made my day! The only thing getting nerfed is dial a mission and nothing else. You will still be able to make enough lp in a single playing session to get several cruisers and frigates or even a bs or two if you put in a few hours in a row. But what I'm curious about is if after your mission is spawned and you then get camped out of it can you then quit the mission without a standing hit? Important question really. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Naye Nathaniel	Posted - 2009.11.29 01:01:00 - [113] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Naye Nathaniel Haha really nice :] <3 CCP u screwed faction warfare missions :) Now i'ts better to farm lv 4 missions in Motsu for twice more LP needed than fly 15j in one way to kill about 20 NPCs and being targeted by WF in your "cheap" ship ;) But hey its cool also, after a week, when everyone will spend theirs LP, the faction Navy Scorp would be worth like 2b and CNR for 1b or even 2b also xD CCP u made my day! The only thing getting nerfed is dial a mission and nothing else. You will still be able to make enough lp in a single playing session to get several cruisers and frigates or even a bs or two if you put in a few hours in a row. But what I'm curious about is if after your mission is spawned and you then get camped out of it can you then quit the mission without a standing hit? Important question really. I think not, cause thats gonna be the same like now, means u can accept and decline mission and pick new one ;) until ull get new one, and believe me, now its a 8-10 hours to get a faction BS for yourself, thats why CCP made a Navy SCorp for 150k of LPS + chip, because no one would "farm" or even "earn" LPs from FW missions. Would u fly 15 jumps for a crapy mission for 8k LP [lv 4] and waste about hour to get a 2 mln reward for it? I doubt it.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.11.29 02:11:00 - [114] Originally by: Naye Nathaniel I think not, cause thats gonna be the same like now, means u can accept and decline mission and pick new one ;) Well considering you would have to fly all the way to the system the mission is in to spawn the mission so you could then refuse it to try to replicate the old cherry pick system it would not do you any good as you would still have to fly all the way back to the agent just for a remote chance at a closer mission. Originally by: Naye Nathaniel until ull get new one, and believe me, now its a 8-10 hours to get a faction BS for yourself, thats why CCP made a Navy SCorp for 150k of LPS + chip, because no one would "farm" or even "earn" LPs from FW missions. Would u fly 15 jumps for a crapy mission for 8k LP [lv 4] and waste about hour to get a 2 mln reward for it? I doubt it. Nothing is changing with fw missions so you will still be able to earn a faction bs or a small handfull of frigates and cruisers in just a few missions even with a few low earners thrown into the mix. Also you are only getting 8k lp and 2 mil rewards for a fw level 4 mission? Do you have any social skills trained at all or are you using an agent with negative quality? You should be getting at least 2~3x that amount per mission. Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
Garr Anders Minmatar The Red Circle Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.29 10:45:00 - [115] I have social skills but not to max (IIRC 4) but the best I ever get is a 11K LP on a lvl4 missions form the agent in abudban as minni pilot fighting for the minni side. I havent seen anything about lowering the reward, though they might keep that in the "exploits have been fixed and eve is better now" thing hidden. If they havent done that, I still be able to "farm" minni FW missions for 5-10k but have to fly to random systems. OTOH since caldari/gallente can not "pick" their 25-30K LP per missions only anymore but have to do the "lower ones" in between as well, it seems. Balance anyone? ----- Garr Anders "The only winning move is not to play" is about the best damn advice anyone can get regarding arguing over the internet. - referring to the Movie WarGames 1983
Deva Blackfire 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2009.11.29 12:16:00 - [116] Hm best matari agent is in Hadozeko and thats quite far from frontlines :X
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2009.11.29 16:28:00 - [117] This agent needs to be moved to the front lines for balance reasons Signature - CCP what this game needs is more variance in PVE aspects and a little bit less PVP focus, more content more varied level 1-4 missions more than just 10 per faction high sec low sec and 00
Naye Nathaniel	Posted - 2009.11.29 16:45:00 - [118] Well for best mission I can get like 11,5k LP, with social skills lv 3 and standing 10.0. But "poor" missions are like 8k LP, and take down like 5 objects, during a heavy fire. If they want to take us that missions declaining system, then ok, but then let it be as normal mission, WITHOUT an OVERVIEW beacon for anyone..
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.29 17:55:00 - [119] Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah CCP is well aware that you guys DONT do 20 jumps but have alts in all constellations to blitz any mission that ends up in their sector. ORLY? The person who accepted the mission has to spawn it in the target system. You can have an alt sitting 20 jumps away, but it can't do crap unless you physically get your butt out there and cause the mission to appear. It's amazing to me that everyone who complains about hisec mission runners complains about the losec mission runners as well.
Naye Nathaniel	Posted - 2009.11.29 18:07:00 - [120] Originally by: Seriously Bored Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah CCP is well aware that you guys DONT do 20 jumps but have alts in all constellations to blitz any mission that ends up in their sector. ORLY? The person who accepted the mission has to spawn it in the target system. You can have an alt sitting 20 jumps away, but it can't do crap unless you physically get your butt out there and cause the mission to appear. It's amazing to me that everyone who complains about hisec mission runners complains about the losec mission runners as well. But best is complaining about missions that no one of them ever done and see how "hard" it can be ;)



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