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Pookie McPook
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:57:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Anubis Xian
My problem with the UI is how much screen space you need just to get any kind of decent level of information presentation.
Buy a bigger monitor.....a widescreen monitor?
What I would say however is that the font CCP use is not the best and could be improved. Even if the non condensed version is used it can be very difficult to discern certain characters from others.
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.24 13:29:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Pookie McPook
Originally by: Anubis Xian
My problem with the UI is how much screen space you need just to get any kind of decent level of information presentation.
Buy a bigger monitor.....a widescreen monitor?
What I would say however is that the font CCP use is not the best and could be improved. Even if the non condensed version is used it can be very difficult to discern certain characters from others.
I have two windscreens but as I said earlier I'm not used to so little information being presented in such a large space. Just because the screen is there it's no excuse for bad design to take it from me.
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Aggressive Bias
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Posted - 2009.11.24 14:03:00 -
[33]
Edited by: Aggressive Bias on 24/11/2009 14:03:24
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
level playing field? between player skill, character skill, ships, mods, wealth, and numbers, where exactly is this fabled level playing field?
customizable UI has only made WOW better. same would be for EVE.
Not to mention someone having multiple accounts. Space combat via menus? Fix the UI to make it customizable.
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Hilder
Amarr
Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2009.11.24 14:30:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Callista Sincera
I beg to differ. No UI I've ever seen is as bad as the EVE UI.
Whenever I open a window in the EVE UI and can watch it being build widget by widget (not to mention the various "Load" buttons[*]), I get these Win 3.1 memories and a good old 90ties feeling that I really don't care that much about in a spaceships-is-serious-buisiness game. I really wish with their 500 employees they'd at least hire one guy that knows *something* about UI design, both from a technical and a human interfacing standpoint.
Originally by: Forge Lag
I want to see who is nossing me. I want to arrange modules into matrix to fit numeric keypad. F2Ps can do it, EvE cannot. I (and an army of newbies) want "keep at range = gun optimal", I want to preview range when changing ammo, I want to see target angular in relation to my tracking. I want trajectory display. I want map browser worth a damn. I want to find where is the ship I had faction web on. I want to merge chat channels. I want good combat log. Funny is most if not all of those can be done without more UI clutter, actually even streamlining the UI while providing better information.
/signed
Some good points here. Personally while I can live with the UI for performing simple tasks, for big fleet fights its just not fit for purpose.
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Jin Jemai
Tripod Enterprises
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Posted - 2009.11.24 14:45:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Professor Jinmei
I will be happy if I could move that darm target(s) frame.
Everything else is movable & re-sizable so why not the targets?
You can't resize it as far as I know, but you can move it. Look for a little crosshair looking thing near the target icons.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.11.24 15:59:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
where exactly is this fabled level playing field?
In-game vs meta-game. They try to keep the meta-game level where possible.
If you want a more concrete example: Alliance A has a brilliant mind in their member group, who makes an UI addon that gives a significant advantage in fleet, gang and solo PvP. It's distributed only to trusted alliance members, to prevent it's leaking to the general public as long as possible. Given that it makes them win more battles, everyone who has the addon has a personal interest in not seeing it spread. Addons only exist client side, so CCP does not know it exists and is thus incapable of incorperating it into the client as a boon to all. Which would actually only increase usability of the UI, because the PvP advantage is nullified by everyone having the same tool at that point.
Player/character skill, ships, mods, wealth and numbers can be observed, deduced and/or guesstimated in-game. Addons are invisible to the enemy. You might figure out some of the functionality after a string of lost battles but until it's leaked, you're at a disadvantage. If you have a, say, 10% advantage over your enemy for even as little as a week, you can do a whole boatload of damage. On the receiving side, nothing is as frustrating as losing without being able to figure out why.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Sekret Kool Klubb
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:01:00 -
[37]
x for Hello Kitty custom UI.
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
I could go for some doritos now, damn you Spank
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Ariel Dawn
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:19:00 -
[38]
Letting people develop mods for UI/etc could only improve the game.
Funny thing is that if this were at some point allowed, you could pretty much use WoW's UI systems. Shield/Armor/Structre = Health, Capacitor = Mana, then you'd have 4-6 buttons for guns/drones/speed mods/ewar.
I would LOVE being able to bind all actions to keys instead of having to click everything.
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Lady Spank
Amarr
Sekret Kool Klubb
HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:26:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Lady Spank on 24/11/2009 16:25:46
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Letting people develop mods for UI/etc could only improve the game.
Funny thing is that if this were at some point allowed, you could pretty much use WoW's UI systems. Shield/Armor/Structre = Health, Capacitor = Mana, then you'd have 4-6 buttons for guns/drones/speed mods/ewar.
I would LOVE being able to bind all actions to keys instead of having to click everything.
So would macros.
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
I could go for some doritos now, damn you Spank
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Aisley Tyrion
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:33:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Letting people develop mods for UI/etc could only improve the game.
Funny thing is that if this were at some point allowed, you could pretty much use WoW's UI systems. Shield/Armor/Structre = Health, Capacitor = Mana, then you'd have 4-6 buttons for guns/drones/speed mods/ewar.
I would LOVE being able to bind all actions to keys instead of having to click everything.
Umm.. Esc menu -> Shortcuts?
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Arkeladin
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Posted - 2009.11.24 16:46:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Goo Digga
Originally by: Kolatha
WoW's interface mods and addons were basically a gift to the bot makers and macro farmers. After all the interface API is sophisticated enough that you can even run other games.
That is why no game developer serious about keeping the gold/isk farmers out has a user moddable interface that allows anything more than moving interface elements around.
Bot makers and macro farmers would exist no matter what, But you can't punish the whole eve community so that bot makers and macro farmers have a hard time doing their "job".
Hell, now that I think about it. Maybe the reason why CCP refuse to add a hotkey for "lunch all drones" is to keep out the farmers.
Enough of the bullcarp - Ye Ghods.
It tool the people over at Blizzard/Vivendi SIX YEARS to block enough of the API functions to reasonably block most cheaters - the cycle went:
1) Come up wioth new mod idea.
2) Get it out into the mod community.
3) Wait for Bliz to rule on exploit or not.
4) Make next client release imcompatable with said mod.
Rinse and repeat - there's some that are borderline exploits, but Bliz lets 'em go anyway, such as that mod that marks all resource nodes on your map for easy access. It doesn't use game functions to do so, that's whi IIRC they let it slide.
Don't believe me - look it up yourself!
CCP has said repeatedly that it's not worth it to redesign their client UI on a scripting/modifiable level, so GET OVER IT - your whining does nothing.
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Diomedes Calypso
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Posted - 2009.11.24 17:14:00 -
[42]
There are many third party -tools- that vastly ease elements of game play. I don't think they need to be incorporated into the game but they sure help Evemon , Eft , Dotlan maps to name a few. (and yeah there are better ones of each perhaps) Running two screens helps a lot to keep you from tabbing back and forth
I don't think those tools "dumb down" the game, but help remove tedium.
There are really irritating things about the UI and perhaps third party programs are a great way to outsource improvements in a way thats much more responsive to varying user desires.. I have no real knowledge of the technical limiations.
On the bot vs player issue, I guess there is some controversy on purpose.
Should people more dexterous and with sharper vision have advantages in game play based on their dexterity in mouse manipulation that makes you right click and drag down a menu that would disapear without a steady hand, or have the wrong choice selected if your eyes arenĘt as sharp?
Again, itĘs a matter of philosphy and the decisions are along a scale, not just either or.
IĘd like to see things determined as much as possible by the Choices places make, not their physical ability to manage a cumbersome ui to implement their choices.
For example, entering a jump-gate code is more an issue for me. IĘve typed for 20 years but I still canĘt type a setence withou leaving out some letters or transposing their oreder. I get a 6 digit code wwrong often . (IĘm leaving this sentence uneditted as thatĘs how I type despite going to a top 20 universtity and having wrok had work that ooften has mee typing all day. Yes IĘm that bad.. but I can go back and etdit and noet have it affect my final product.
Dyslexia or aomething.
You ccould see that with this sort of typing something similar like quickly selecting the third asteroid belt or something is hard.
Trying to puch the write target on a haltingly updating overview is harder for me than others, and while the overview has some options, it would be much easier for me to have different overview windows open with the already availabe information presented seperately simaltaneuosly and more clearly. Targets in one window, alies in another window escape belts in another. Well, IĘd run out of screen room but it would be my choice.
Its very difficult for me to see the little icons that show if IĘm being webbed or scrammed especialy with the targets jumping around on the overview. IĘd like to be able to increase the size of that sort of icon. Yes IĘd like even more info on whoĘs doing what to me shown close to my hud and allow a quick mouse click to target those people but maybe that crosses the line for some people.
Now, I canĘt expect tools to completely alleviate my disadvantage but easier interfaces would make my CHOICEs not my physical dexterity more of a determination in how I do in a fight. A customizable UI would really be a move in that direction.
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Xaen
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.11.24 17:26:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
WoW's default UI is fine, TBH. It only used to be lacking but over the years they've added the functionality of nearly every popular mod into the base UI.
Wheras the EVE UI has remained unchanged for 6 years.
And totally awesome.
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Support fixing the UI|Suggest Jita fixes|Compact logs |
Draskuul Vrallis
Minmatar
PoliCratton Technologies
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Posted - 2009.11.24 17:27:00 -
[44]
As has been stated already, CCP has already allowed their form of mods/addons through the incredibly powerful API system, and honestly this is all EVE needs.
UI changes would be useless because CCP has to continue to provide a level playing field for everyone. Even Blizzard learned their lesson with WoW and gimped their addons system to the point that the addons let you change look and feel but didn't really add much in terms of functionality.
Example: Back when I played WoW (been ages) I was a hunter and used bar mods to handle automatically swapping my main keys 1-6 between ranged and melee depending on my target's range. This saved me from having to hit keys to swap pages or having to use yet more keys for those abilities. As it was I had damned near every key on the keyboard mapped out and it still wasn't enough to provide full functionality for WoW. Unfortunately that ability (determining range through mods) was deemed too powerful giving players with addons a distinct advantage over those without, thus nerfed into oblivion.
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Commoner
Caldari
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2009.11.24 17:40:00 -
[45]
Edited by: Commoner on 24/11/2009 17:44:33
Originally by: Lady Spank
Edited by: Lady Spank on 24/11/2009 16:25:46
Originally by: Ariel Dawn
Letting people develop mods for UI/etc could only improve the game.
Funny thing is that if this were at some point allowed, you could pretty much use WoW's UI systems. Shield/Armor/Structre = Health, Capacitor = Mana, then you'd have 4-6 buttons for guns/drones/speed mods/ewar.
I would LOVE being able to bind all actions to keys instead of having to click everything.
So would macros.
Settling for lowest common denominator when designing is really good design choice.
My gripe with the EVE UI has more to do with the feel and look of it. It's very unresponsive, and theres alot of "load" buttons as said earlier.
The UI code, hasn't changed since Caster (or the expansion after that...in 2005). It feels slow and sluggish, and as an remnant from the days of windoes 98.
One issue i have is the chat channels, i would love to have ONE chat channel, with diffrent color codes to indicate where the chatter is comming from, instead of having to dock each and every channel into a tabbed pane. Make this an option, so people can CHOOSE what they want.
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Megan Aven
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.11.24 17:59:00 -
[46]
Have to say that UI in EVE is horrible (saying that it's horrible is actually a compliment). One of the worst ones among MMOs.
Bad design, bad functionality, non-responsive, slow, buggy, etc...
Where is some customization (we don't even need add-ons, just some room for personal preferences)?
The saddest part is that CCP is improving all these useless things (like planets for example) instead of improving things that actually matter (like UI).
With all the manpower at CCP I'm sure that they could put together a small team and do a complete UI revamp (and it wouldn't take more than a couple of weeks with a competent team).
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Psycho Tripper
Abh Empire
Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2009.11.24 18:07:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Professor Jinmei
I will be happy if I could move that darm target(s) frame.
Everything else is movable & re-sizable so why not the targets?
It is in fact possible to move the targets. Minimize your selected object window and look for a faint crosshair, dragging this drags the targets.
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Ban Doga
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Posted - 2009.11.24 18:23:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Ban Doga on 24/11/2009 18:23:54
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
Originally by: Jagga Spikes
where exactly is this fabled level playing field?
In-game vs meta-game. They try to keep the meta-game level where possible.
If you want a more concrete example: Alliance A has a brilliant mind in their member group, who makes an UI addon that gives a significant advantage in fleet, gang and solo PvP. It's distributed only to trusted alliance members, to prevent it's leaking to the general public as long as possible. Given that it makes them win more battles, everyone who has the addon has a personal interest in not seeing it spread. Addons only exist client side, so CCP does not know it exists and is thus incapable of incorperating it into the client as a boon to all. Which would actually only increase usability of the UI, because the PvP advantage is nullified by everyone having the same tool at that point.
Player/character skill, ships, mods, wealth and numbers can be observed, deduced and/or guesstimated in-game. Addons are invisible to the enemy. You might figure out some of the functionality after a string of lost battles but until it's leaked, you're at a disadvantage. If you have a, say, 10% advantage over your enemy for even as little as a week, you can do a whole boatload of damage. On the receiving side, nothing is as frustrating as losing without being able to figure out why.
There would be no reason to let anyone use a mod without registering - and thus making it publicly available - with CCP.
Also your argument is moot since everyone can create a program to utilize the EVE API to increase the overall effectiveness of a group of players (training, industry, research, POSes, trading, etc.).
Not all of those tools are publicly available.
Furthermore there are websites to track market prices, ore prices, refinement rates, etc.
Not everyone knows all of them.
So there is no level playing field in the meta-game to begin with.
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Ai Mei
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Posted - 2009.11.24 18:37:00 -
[49]
EvE has a UI?
I spend soo much time in the solar system map for probing with the directional scanner and probe scanner menus open I forget that there is a ui outside of it. I see the maps more than i see anything else. All i need to know is F1 turns on guns and ctrl click targets stuff off my menu.
That being said? we have a ui?
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Kewso
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Posted - 2009.11.24 19:57:00 -
[50]
I wish Eve had skinnable UI like Dark age of camelot!
the UI is just xml so you can reskin it however. You can't add any new functionality on Dark age of camelot skinnable UI's just change colors, themes, and change how the chat box looks or you could remove bars that were static and get rid of them or move then to a tiny button that would toggle display on/off.
Daoc skin modding > WOW and was first anyhow.
Id love an xml skinnable UI like dark age of camelot. That would rock
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.24 20:05:00 -
[51]
Im under no illusions CCP will do anything, If they seriously think a new UI means more bots or advantages to some they are stuck in the dark ages on that anyway. I've never seen a dev blog over it, every interface element seems to be designed by a random dev who has not once said to someone 'ok, try this and tell me what you think' which suggest the UI is the least of their issues. They are only changing the Corp UI as the big alliances have been screaming for it for years.
About 10 basic changes would be all it takes to make a big difference without lua or anything. Even those I can't ever see being done as CCP are so used to the UI they can't see the wood for the trees. Its like asking a Physics professor to give a lecture at elemental Physics, they have forgotten all about the basics that makes a game attractive and usable as their heads are elsewhere.
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Boomershoot
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2009.11.24 20:45:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Forge Lag
EvE is nowhere near WoW. Its "gamey" interface is limited to obtrusive unmoveable HUD, rest is as fitting for play as decade old corporate IS and CCP refuses to improve, in part because it lacks the free feedback and massive testing Blizzard is getting on their UI thanks to addons. CCP is paranoid, Blizzard is confident in what they do.
That's why CCP had to make Warden while Blizzard didn't.
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i'd gladly abuse [hr] if CCP implemented it
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SomebodyKickedMyDog
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Posted - 2009.11.24 20:50:00 -
[53]
new features/tools in the UI would be cool but really, i just want improved functionality. it's far too slow and buggy. i just want it to work.
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Daemonspirit
An Android Lust
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Posted - 2009.11.24 21:08:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Daemonspirit on 24/11/2009 21:09:24
Originally by: Lady Spank
x for Hello Kitty custom UI.
QFFT!
I'm fine with the UI (I'm used to it) - and I also have played other MMO's...
It got to the point that one of the reasons I quit them (other than finding Eve) was that to be included in end game activities, about 1/2 a dozen mods were "required" - every time a patch came out you could count on anywhere from a couple days to a couple of weeks with eff-d up utility.
Now, if they had just used the freakin' UI that they had, patches wouldn't have slowed down anyone.
I would like to see session timers/loaders removed/minimized, but have no interest in multiple UI's/Skins/whatever.
ōEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö |
Captain Tardbar
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.11.24 21:32:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Amaron Ghant
Sorry? Am I missing something here? Whats wrong with the U.I?
Lack of keyboard only shortcuts.
I mean why do I have to use my mouse to lock target or warp to zero if I already have the target/object selected?
But I suppose that isn't UI.
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Elldranga
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Posted - 2009.11.24 21:43:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Goo Digga
Originally by: Kolatha
WoW's interface mods and addons were basically a gift to the bot makers and macro farmers. After all the interface API is sophisticated enough that you can even run other games.
That is why no game developer serious about keeping the gold/isk farmers out has a user moddable interface that allows anything more than moving interface elements around.
Bot makers and macro farmers would exist no matter what, But you can't punish the whole eve community so that bot makers and macro farmers have a hard time doing their "job".
Hell, now that I think about it. Maybe the reason why CCP refuse to add a hotkey for "lunch all drones" is to keep out the farmers.
Confirming, there is STILL no hotkey enabling you to eat your drones for lunch... WHEN WILL WE GET THIS CCP!
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Nekopyat
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Posted - 2009.11.24 21:57:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Zartanic
I have two windscreens but as I said earlier I'm not used to so little information being presented in such a large space. Just because the screen is there it's no excuse for bad design to take it from me.
I have to agree... the EVE UI is very wasteful of space.
I imagine if they did have kind of modable interface, the first batch that would come out would be sleek ultra-minimalist interfaces for people who could care less about graphics but want lots of data and good response time.
Though maybe one way to deal with the bot writers... let them. Make UIs a sellable/tradable market item, let people who write good ones be able to pass them around for ISK, and level that playing field.
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General Meridus
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.11.24 22:40:00 -
[58]
UI is good enough. Everyone is equal. Do something with the sound already.
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Dirk Mortice
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Posted - 2009.11.24 22:48:00 -
[59]
Posting in an EVE/WoW comparison/ WoW is better than EVE / EVE should be more like WoW thread
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Night Epoch
Distant Light Galactic
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2009.11.24 23:06:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Night Epoch on 24/11/2009 23:08:03
Edited by: Night Epoch on 24/11/2009 23:07:34
Please no user-moddable UI kthx.
Fix the multitude of overview bugs and I'll be happy. But EVE's interface, while certainly clunky, should be kept strictly in CCP's hands so as to keep us all on an even field. Even if it's a poorly designed field.
I also greatly enjoy seeing WT fleets in empire getting themselves concorded because some dope shoots his alliance mate when he meant only to remote rep him. So a marginally non-trivial target selection mechanic works for me 
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