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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Goo Digga
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Posted - 2009.11.23 21:05:00 -
[1]
CCP if you simply don't have the money or the brain power to improve player interfaces, please please introduce MODS/ADDONS so us players can design our own UI.
It's been like 6 years....seriously.
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En Passant
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Posted - 2009.11.23 21:08:00 -
[2]
This post should be in the Jita Speaker's corner. The issue is brought up least 3 times a day.
It will never happen.
Get over it.
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Goo Digga
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Posted - 2009.11.23 21:11:00 -
[3]
why why why??? Isn't it more cost effective for CCP...
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Doomed Predator
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.23 21:13:00 -
[4]
Never discussed topic, we shall now debate this never before mentioned problem.
The 'Fendahlian Collective' strikes again |
Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.11.23 21:22:00 -
[5]
WoW's default UI is fine, TBH. It only used to be lacking but over the years they've added the functionality of nearly every popular mod into the base UI.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.11.23 21:32:00 -
[6]
I don't wann have to scan the forums every day for a new mod just to be on par, thank you very much.
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Dragonwell
Tactical Trading Partnership
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Posted - 2009.11.23 21:40:00 -
[7]
I seem to remember some technobabble about why moddable UIs weren't possible or something. A long time ago.
But yeah. Signed, in the form of either "update the UI!" or "let us mod it!"
***
Awake in a Space-Dye Vest
Struggling with Six Degrees of Inner Turbulence
Falling Into Infinity toward a New Millennium
While trapped inside this Octavarium. |
Kolatha
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Posted - 2009.11.23 22:07:00 -
[8]
WoW's interface mods and addons were basically a gift to the bot makers and macro farmers. After all the interface API is sophisticated enough that you can even run other games.
That is why no game developer serious about keeping the gold/isk farmers out has a user moddable interface that allows anything more than moving interface elements around.
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Ticarus Hellbrandt
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Posted - 2009.11.23 22:23:00 -
[9]
ui is fine, if a little cluttering, but I dont see how it could be any better considering the amount of infomation being fed through it.
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Akhmed TDT
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Posted - 2009.11.23 22:31:00 -
[10]
 Originally by: Nika Dekaia
I don't wann have to scan the forums every day for a new mod just to be on par, thank you very much.
eve-search?
Maybe a quick google?
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Goo Digga
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Posted - 2009.11.23 23:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Kolatha
WoW's interface mods and addons were basically a gift to the bot makers and macro farmers. After all the interface API is sophisticated enough that you can even run other games.
That is why no game developer serious about keeping the gold/isk farmers out has a user moddable interface that allows anything more than moving interface elements around.
Bot makers and macro farmers would exist no matter what, But you can't punish the whole eve community so that bot makers and macro farmers have a hard time doing their "job".
Hell, now that I think about it. Maybe the reason why CCP refuse to add a hotkey for "lunch all drones" is to keep out the farmers.
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Learol
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Posted - 2009.11.23 23:31:00 -
[12]
its supposed to be that way, it keeps the anoying people in WoW
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Clawz0r
Amarr
Raiders of the Open Stars
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Posted - 2009.11.24 08:15:00 -
[13]
First target manager(Or something we 'need' ingame)
Next its peggle and bejeweled ingame.
-Clawz0r |
Amaron Ghant
Caldari
Miners In Possession
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Posted - 2009.11.24 09:16:00 -
[14]
Sorry? Am I missing something here? Whats wrong with the U.I? |
Kolatha
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Posted - 2009.11.24 09:46:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Goo Digga
Originally by: Kolatha
WoW's interface mods and addons were basically a gift to the bot makers and macro farmers. After all the interface API is sophisticated enough that you can even run other games.
That is why no game developer serious about keeping the gold/isk farmers out has a user moddable interface that allows anything more than moving interface elements around.
Bot makers and macro farmers would exist no matter what, But you can't punish the whole eve community so that bot makers and macro farmers have a hard time doing their "job".
Hell, now that I think about it. Maybe the reason why CCP refuse to add a hotkey for "lunch all drones" is to keep out the farmers.
True. EVE's interface does desperately need some loving. And the lack of key bindings for some tasks is a little confusing.
As for the rest, well, after re-reading my post after a few hours my intent wasn't as clear as my thoughts on the subject, so let me try to rephrase.
What I meant was that WoW's open invitation to the bot makers and farmers through a sophisticated interface modding API that negates the need for external tools for bots has made the modifiable interface look like such a bad idea that other developers really aren't willing to approach the task.
You can easily make nicely modifiable interfaces without going the all out API approach of WoW, and make it not exploitable for bot and macro farmers without locking out legitimate users (complex but achievable).
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Aisley Tyrion
Ministry of War
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Posted - 2009.11.24 10:53:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Amaron Ghant
Sorry? Am I missing something here? Whats wrong with the U.I?
This pretty much. All I would want is the ability to move every object on the UI easily, much like the UI options in Guild Wars.
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Anubis Xian
Reavers
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:04:00 -
[17]
My problem with the UI is how much screen space you need just to get any kind of decent level of information presentation.
Originally by: CCP Oveur
The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:12:00 -
[18]
I think it'd be kinda cool if we could shift the position of the center of the camera and keep it fixed there.
For example:
|-----------------|
| |
| X |
| |
|-----------------|
Current
|-----------------|
| |
| X |
| |
|-----------------|
Modified
That'd make it nice so we can have our ship off to the side and our overview/chat windows/whatever to the other side increasing screen space effectiveness.
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Callista Sincera
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:31:00 -
[19]
I beg to differ. No UI I've ever seen is as bad as the EVE UI. Most certainly not the WoW UI. Sure, it's this ugly blizzard fantasy design and of course everybody hates WoW (eve forums disclaimer), but it's fast and efficient (and yeah, ugly - but that part can be modded).
Whenever I open a window in the EVE UI and can watch it being build widget by widget (not to mention the various "Load" buttons[*]), I get these Win 3.1 memories and a good old 90ties feeling that I really don't care that much about in a spaceships-is-serious-buisiness game. I really wish with their 500 employees they'd at least hire one guy that knows *something* about UI design, both from a technical and a human interfacing standpoint. Like one of the KDE or Gnome guys. I'd venture a guess and say that a lot of them have some Python experience (frequently utilized on linux systems) and their UI's are generally clean and efficient.
I mean just look at the new mail UI. It's not totally bad, but then they go and add some buttons here and there instead of utilizing the toolbar. What's even worse, they hid the mail settings behind that mini play-button-arrow thingy again. Like any new player will ever find it....
/rant off
[*] I'm pretty certain it would be much more efficient for the server to provide only updates to the wallet information and have that data cached in the client instead of retrieving it whenever I hit the "load" button. It's just super bad design to have it there...
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Forge Lag
Jita Lag Preservation Fund
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:43:00 -
[20]
WoW interface is intentionally minimalistic (for MMO standards that is) to make it easy on newcomers.
EvE is nowhere near WoW. Its "gamey" interface is limited to obtrusive unmoveable HUD, rest is as fitting for play as decade old corporate IS and CCP refuses to improve, in part because it lacks the free feedback and massive testing Blizzard is getting on their UI thanks to addons. CCP is paranoid, Blizzard is confident in what they do.
Take a look at Alliance tournament, even commentators lack basic tools to see what is happening at a glance - aka there is no API because they do no have any API and it would be too much work.
I want to see who is nossing me. I want to arrange modules into matrix to fit numeric keypad. F2Ps can do it, EvE cannot. I (and an army of newbies) want "keep at range = gun optimal", I want to preview range when changing ammo, I want to see target angular in relation to my tracking. I want trajectory display. I want map browser worth a damn. I want to find where is the ship I had faction web on. I want to merge chat channels. I want good combat log. Funny is most if not all of those can be done without more UI clutter, actually even streamlining the UI while providing better information.
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Washell Olivaw
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:52:00 -
[21]
WoW PvP has zero consequences, EVE PvP has actual consequences. Not having the latest UI addon for WoW PvP is a lost fight. Not having the latest UI addon for EVE is a lost ship. Thus, in order to keep a level playing field, CCP is opposed to user made UI mods.
Originally by: Signature
Everybody has a photographic memory, some people just don't have film.
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Bevil Smyth
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:53:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Bevil Smyth on 24/11/2009 11:54:28
hear hear.
complete re-working of the UI or allow modding please. I used to be dead against this but after a while you start noticing how truly terrible the EVE interface is. its dated, and doesnt do the job on so many levels. Not just what is said above, but i mean, my god a chat channel user list is still the best intel tool in the game!! its kinda embarassing. I love eve but i wish to god it felt more like a space game rather than 3D MiRC with guns.
also to the guy above:
eve isnt fair
and
if wow kiddies can keep up to date im sure you can too
============================
2003 and still alive! |
Chinwe Rhei
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:55:00 -
[23]
No please let's not.
WoW's UI modifications have trivialised much of the game that used to be more challenging, like dealing with threat mechanics, finding and discovering various things in the world, understanding item attributes, reacting to boss combat mechanics, doing your quests, economic activity such as resource finding and auctions, etc...
You will say it's optional but if something gives you a big advance it ceases to be optional even more so in a game like EvE.
While i would support some kind of EvE "skin" support i'd certainly hate to see EvE have a player programable UI.
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Reiisha
Evolution
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.24 11:56:00 -
[24]
I got used to the UI years ago... Works just fine for me. The only thing the UI "needs" is to speed up selections from context menus (something like keeping the right mouse button down rather than having to click twice).
Besides, having only 1 UI means that everyone is on the same playing field, which is one of the reasons CCP has given for not making it moddable.
I also don't want to spend an entire day hunting for updates to mods after a patch, or waiting a week before the modder decides to update it - Having to spend that week with a partially broken UI. If you want that kind of stuff (yes, i know it's a cliche, but here it comes), go back to WoW.
"If you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all"
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:06:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
WoW PvP has zero consequences, EVE PvP has actual consequences. Not having the latest UI addon for WoW PvP is a lost fight. Not having the latest UI addon for EVE is a lost ship. Thus, in order to keep a level playing field, CCP is opposed to user made UI mods.
The UI isn't good, but I'm with him. Keeping up with the latest must use mods to be able to be accepted in a fleet or be competative in PvP isn't what I want to see in EVE. It isn't an issue with separate servers or non-competative games, but once you allow them, there is no going back. As I said, the UI needs work, but any UI changes and tweaks should come with the basic UI, so everyone has a level playing field.
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:09:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Zartanic on 24/11/2009 12:14:15
Originally by: Chinwe Rhei
No please let's not.
WoW's UI modifications have trivialised much of the game that used to be more challenging, like dealing with threat mechanics, finding and discovering various things in the world, understanding item attributes, reacting to boss combat mechanics, doing your quests, economic activity such as resource finding and auctions, etc...
You will say it's optional but if something gives you a big advance it ceases to be optional even more so in a game like EvE.
While i would support some kind of EvE "skin" support i'd certainly hate to see EvE have a player programable UI.
I agree WOW has gone too far and I suspect the average EVE player would hate that (WOW players are inherently lazy, EVE players prefer to work things out for themselves) But there is still a hell of a lot more a good UI can do and give considerable improvements without all the fancy extras you have in WOW. Forget any unfair advantage in PVP, I don't want those functions, I just want clear and precise windowing for a start and having button of the size I want and in sensible places. Even a choice of colour scheme beyond drab, drab or..drab would be nice.
An issue with discussions about LUA or similar is that its such a powerful tool players gut reaction is to dislike it. An example is 'it makes botting easier' when that's simply not true. It's not hard for a company to implement any feature it wants and bar any feature it wants. Simply disabling the function to allow you to search the status of members in your fleet would kill half the features players may not like. Blizz did this a few years back which brought the game back to the user (some here may remember decursive and similar which was effectively disabled).
The problem is once you get used to the flexibility and usability of a decent UI playing EVE is like playing my old ZX81. EVE is clustered with functions now and it will only get worse as they add new interfaces.
I would die for unit frames in EVE even if they gave exactly the same information as now. That would wipe out 80% of wasted window space in a stroke.
I wouldn't mind if they spent more than a minute thinking about their UI's sometimes but they clearly do not. Things like putting the recall button next to the scan button is nuts. Things like this are common and frankly an embarrassment as well as a very bad advert to potential players.
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Norian Lonark
Gallente
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:20:00 -
[27]
I really don't have too much of a problem with the UI.
There are some improvements id like to see, but id rather CCP sort it and everyone gets the same then having people messing around with it, I really cant be doing with managing a load of patched mods when I get in from work.
I really don't want to see it going like wow where you have to get this mod and that mod just to be able to play the game with others cause everyone is using it.
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Professor Jinmei
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:37:00 -
[28]
I will be happy if I could move that darm target(s) frame.
Everything else is movable & re-sizable so why not the targets?
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:39:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Zartanic on 24/11/2009 12:40:37
Originally by: Norian Lonark
....I really don't want to see it going like wow where you have to get this mod and that mod just to be able to play the game with others cause everyone is using it.
That is a major issue yes. When I left WOW and as a Raider I had 26 mods. But most of those were aesthetic and not needed. I needed about 6 which I auto updated. But yes that is an issue as well as players saying in EVE the disadvantage of not having a mod can be much bigger than WOW. That's why I would see EVE mods as purely aids to providing a streamlined UI and nothing more (with skins, font options etc)
One benefit is Blizz did take the best mods and incorporate them into their standard UI. Nothing to stop CCP doing this.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.24 12:55:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Destination SkillQueue
Originally by: Washell Olivaw
WoW PvP has zero consequences, EVE PvP has actual consequences. Not having the latest UI addon for WoW PvP is a lost fight. Not having the latest UI addon for EVE is a lost ship. Thus, in order to keep a level playing field, CCP is opposed to user made UI mods.
The UI isn't good, but I'm with him. Keeping up with the latest must use mods to be able to be accepted in a fleet or be competative in PvP isn't what I want to see in EVE. It isn't an issue with separate servers or non-competative games, but once you allow them, there is no going back. As I said, the UI needs work, but any UI changes and tweaks should come with the basic UI, so everyone has a level playing field.
level playing field? between player skill, character skill, ships, mods, wealth, and numbers, where exactly is this fabled level playing field?
customizable UI has only made WOW better. same would be for EVE.
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