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DrunkenOne	Posted - 2004.11.08 17:35:00 - [31] Originally by: Thyro Edited by: Thyro on 08/11/2004 17:26:53 Edited by: Thyro on 08/11/2004 17:26:23 Just be honest with you and this game.... Would you not use one of the following tactics if they were implemented on EVE? 1) increase the armor/hull HP points to all ships or ... or reduce at same precentage the damage caused to armor/hull HP points to provide ships with more time during fights 2) (forget EW)... weapons that can disable and destroy modules on enemy ships... without destroying their ship. 3) Incapacitate an enemy ship to a point that you can take over the ship... (again not a full destruction of the ship/enemy pod) OMG... 3)... I could finally storm an Apoc with my 1200 marines I have laying around!
DrunkenOne	Posted - 2004.11.08 17:35:00 - [32] Originally by: Thyro Edited by: Thyro on 08/11/2004 17:26:53 Edited by: Thyro on 08/11/2004 17:26:23 Just be honest with you and this game.... Would you not use one of the following tactics if they were implemented on EVE? 1) increase the armor/hull HP points to all ships or ... or reduce at same precentage the damage caused to armor/hull HP points to provide ships with more time during fights 2) (forget EW)... weapons that can disable and destroy modules on enemy ships... without destroying their ship. 3) Incapacitate an enemy ship to a point that you can take over the ship... (again not a full destruction of the ship/enemy pod) OMG... 3)... I could finally storm an Apoc with my 1200 marines I have laying around!
OffBeaT	Posted - 2004.11.08 17:42:00 - [33] Edited by: OffBeaT on 08/11/2004 17:49:29 alright, alright. about the lag, im just gona say it, even thou ever brit out there is gona tear me up. evry gammer whos been around play many diffrent games on many diffrent servers throu the years knows that England has the worse internet in the world. they couldnt of picked the worse place in the world too setup there main server. it should be setup in Canada or one of the nortic countrys who avage home has a 3mb to 10mb connection. even keep it in iceland.. But england? Count, dont shot me for this..
OffBeaT	Posted - 2004.11.08 17:42:00 - [34] Edited by: OffBeaT on 08/11/2004 17:49:29 alright, alright. about the lag, im just gona say it, even thou ever brit out there is gona tear me up. evry gammer whos been around play many diffrent games on many diffrent servers throu the years knows that England has the worse internet in the world. they couldnt of picked the worse place in the world too setup there main server. it should be setup in Canada or one of the nortic countrys who avage home has a 3mb to 10mb connection. even keep it in iceland.. But england? Count, dont shot me for this..
Grievance	Posted - 2004.11.08 17:45:00 - [35] tactics dont matter when you have ·ber lag and crashes when the enemy warps in (ala last night in curse space (or was it saturday??)) Point is, the servers obviously can't handle big fleet battles at the moment (over 70 vs 70 very often results in crash/major lag/ships not even showing up ) I love fleet engagement, so they should get this fixed before they add in even more features (ones you cant even use) 'A man with a passion for Pirate fashion.'
Grievance	Posted - 2004.11.08 17:45:00 - [36] tactics dont matter when you have ·ber lag and crashes when the enemy warps in (ala last night in curse space (or was it saturday??)) Point is, the servers obviously can't handle big fleet battles at the moment (over 70 vs 70 very often results in crash/major lag/ships not even showing up ) I love fleet engagement, so they should get this fixed before they add in even more features (ones you cant even use) 'A man with a passion for Pirate fashion.'
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.11.08 18:06:00 - [37] Originally by: DrunkenOne [OMG... 3)... I could finally storm an Apoc with my 1200 marines I have laying around! Just the way it should be. This has been suggested time and time again on the Ideas forum. If u wanna take an enemy station or capture a disabled ship a Boarding action would be awesome. Just as the defender could use his marines/security guys to fight said boarding action off. Lots could be done to tactically enhance the game play. I for one would welcome refueling/resupply, ships crews/marines and AWACS ships (instead of the map) Eve as it is,is good, but could be far better. And yeah a 3 second gate ganking with added lag aint no fun for anyone. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Cadman Weyland	Posted - 2004.11.08 18:06:00 - [38] Originally by: DrunkenOne [OMG... 3)... I could finally storm an Apoc with my 1200 marines I have laying around! Just the way it should be. This has been suggested time and time again on the Ideas forum. If u wanna take an enemy station or capture a disabled ship a Boarding action would be awesome. Just as the defender could use his marines/security guys to fight said boarding action off. Lots could be done to tactically enhance the game play. I for one would welcome refueling/resupply, ships crews/marines and AWACS ships (instead of the map) Eve as it is,is good, but could be far better. And yeah a 3 second gate ganking with added lag aint no fun for anyone. Director of Empire Ops and Chief Carebear
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.08 18:12:00 - [39] gotta agree here... there are many issues which lead to this 3 secs gankfestivals... it would be possble to change that however I'm not quite sure if the devs want to... the most annoying module in this case would be the mwd... without it we would be a huge step closer to longer and more tactical fights... problem in this case are missiles cuz you wouldnt be able to outrun them anymore and of course close range ships like the thorax and mega even more travelling would be screwed... so lets wait and see... few balance changes are still coming soonÖ... lets wait for them and we will see what EVE aims for... Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.08 18:12:00 - [40] gotta agree here... there are many issues which lead to this 3 secs gankfestivals... it would be possble to change that however I'm not quite sure if the devs want to... the most annoying module in this case would be the mwd... without it we would be a huge step closer to longer and more tactical fights... problem in this case are missiles cuz you wouldnt be able to outrun them anymore and of course close range ships like the thorax and mega even more travelling would be screwed... so lets wait and see... few balance changes are still coming soonÖ... lets wait for them and we will see what EVE aims for... Greetings Grim
Reloaded INC	Posted - 2004.11.08 18:41:00 - [41] as far as i am aware......... their is a huge ammount of preperation that goes into an engagement. the ammount of planning scouting and fringe skirmishes that take place around the main fleet blobs are enough to keep people slightly interested. no i totaly disagree with your post here plenty of stratigie leading up to the climax. I dont know what battles u have been fighting in but the ones iv'e fought in have required alot of skill for just getting ships to our main fleet. I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
Reloaded INC	Posted - 2004.11.08 18:41:00 - [42] as far as i am aware......... their is a huge ammount of preperation that goes into an engagement. the ammount of planning scouting and fringe skirmishes that take place around the main fleet blobs are enough to keep people slightly interested. no i totaly disagree with your post here plenty of stratigie leading up to the climax. I dont know what battles u have been fighting in but the ones iv'e fought in have required alot of skill for just getting ships to our main fleet. I am the bad guy the kriptonite the green cronic.
Veneth	Posted - 2004.11.08 18:46:00 - [43] Originally by: Reloaded INC as far as i am aware......... their is a huge ammount of preperation that goes into an engagement. the ammount of planning scouting and fringe skirmishes that take place around the main fleet blobs are enough to keep people slightly interested. no i totaly disagree with your post here plenty of stratigie leading up to the climax. I dont know what battles u have been fighting in but the ones iv'e fought in have required alot of skill for just getting ships to our main fleet. I wish I fought in your battles. all I ever see are massed frig fleets smashed together. any BS foolish enough to enter the fray is quickly destroyed. if you pitted 19 frigs and 1 BS vs 20 frigs. I'm sure the BS would have very little to no impact on the engagment because he would just be ganked in a flury of light missiles. That's to me is a massive tactical flaw of the game. that BS should swing the tide of the battle
Veneth	Posted - 2004.11.08 18:46:00 - [44] Originally by: Reloaded INC as far as i am aware......... their is a huge ammount of preperation that goes into an engagement. the ammount of planning scouting and fringe skirmishes that take place around the main fleet blobs are enough to keep people slightly interested. no i totaly disagree with your post here plenty of stratigie leading up to the climax. I dont know what battles u have been fighting in but the ones iv'e fought in have required alot of skill for just getting ships to our main fleet. I wish I fought in your battles. all I ever see are massed frig fleets smashed together. any BS foolish enough to enter the fray is quickly destroyed. if you pitted 19 frigs and 1 BS vs 20 frigs. I'm sure the BS would have very little to no impact on the engagment because he would just be ganked in a flury of light missiles. That's to me is a massive tactical flaw of the game. that BS should swing the tide of the battle
Skarsnik	Posted - 2004.11.08 18:51:00 - [45] Originally by: OffBeaT Edited by: OffBeaT on 08/11/2004 17:49:29 alright, alright. about the lag, im just gona say it, even thou ever brit out there is gona tear me up. evry gammer whos been around play many diffrent games on many diffrent servers throu the years knows that England has the worse internet in the world. they couldnt of picked the worse place in the world too setup there main server. it should be setup in Canada or one of the nortic countrys who avage home has a 3mb to 10mb connection. even keep it in iceland.. But england? Count, dont shot me for this.. thats a foolish statement if ever I saw one... London is a main hub for the internet betweens the US and europe - with thatr in mind and the timezone made perfect sense to place them there .. the one thing internet wise here in the UK is the home links for adsl and cable - the capacity there sux --------------------------------- No Slugs were harmed in the creation of this signature ---------------------------------
Skarsnik	Posted - 2004.11.08 18:51:00 - [46] Originally by: OffBeaT Edited by: OffBeaT on 08/11/2004 17:49:29 alright, alright. about the lag, im just gona say it, even thou ever brit out there is gona tear me up. evry gammer whos been around play many diffrent games on many diffrent servers throu the years knows that England has the worse internet in the world. they couldnt of picked the worse place in the world too setup there main server. it should be setup in Canada or one of the nortic countrys who avage home has a 3mb to 10mb connection. even keep it in iceland.. But england? Count, dont shot me for this.. thats a foolish statement if ever I saw one... London is a main hub for the internet betweens the US and europe - with thatr in mind and the timezone made perfect sense to place them there .. the one thing internet wise here in the UK is the home links for adsl and cable - the capacity there sux --------------------------------- No Slugs were harmed in the creation of this signature ---------------------------------
Hakera	Posted - 2004.11.08 19:06:00 - [47] well all ships are balanced on a 1 vs 1 basis with their counterparts. So naturally, a lot of people shooting you will entail your ship not lasting longa nd most likely you not having time to respond. ok, they could scale up all hitpoints across the board by an equal factor, that in theory maintains the current balance or just increase hull points. More in line with the thinking of trek or the like where their hulls were punctured lots but they didnt die ever. i would support a scaling up of hp, or just like 200% more hull points. as to the original thread, Quote: I wish that fights were more tactical (like in Nexus), time to decide tactics (just remove shields destroy the hull) or even disable modules on the enemy ship... but at least one more thing....... no fights that only take 3 seconds to win or lose like happen in EVE.... that is wrong, tactics and tactical play are the biggest part of PvP, what ship is your target in, at what range and velocity, is he using ew, do you have ew to stop him, is he tanking or dmg dealing, does he have friends nearby, what weapons is he using. all of that goes through my mind in PvP, but it also weighs against experience, I know what most ships will be equipped like when I see them. I know counter-tactics to many of the tactics used. That helps the above process to take a matter of seconds. Sure, you cannot escape from a pure gank if your not careful, people simply have bad luck and you land in an ambush. Ambushes are designed to kill and maim to maximum efficiency with minmimal loss. Hence the gank works best because we have no knowledge of whats at the destination without intelligence such as scouts. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.11.08 19:06:00 - [48] well all ships are balanced on a 1 vs 1 basis with their counterparts. So naturally, a lot of people shooting you will entail your ship not lasting longa nd most likely you not having time to respond. ok, they could scale up all hitpoints across the board by an equal factor, that in theory maintains the current balance or just increase hull points. More in line with the thinking of trek or the like where their hulls were punctured lots but they didnt die ever. i would support a scaling up of hp, or just like 200% more hull points. as to the original thread, Quote: I wish that fights were more tactical (like in Nexus), time to decide tactics (just remove shields destroy the hull) or even disable modules on the enemy ship... but at least one more thing....... no fights that only take 3 seconds to win or lose like happen in EVE.... that is wrong, tactics and tactical play are the biggest part of PvP, what ship is your target in, at what range and velocity, is he using ew, do you have ew to stop him, is he tanking or dmg dealing, does he have friends nearby, what weapons is he using. all of that goes through my mind in PvP, but it also weighs against experience, I know what most ships will be equipped like when I see them. I know counter-tactics to many of the tactics used. That helps the above process to take a matter of seconds. Sure, you cannot escape from a pure gank if your not careful, people simply have bad luck and you land in an ambush. Ambushes are designed to kill and maim to maximum efficiency with minmimal loss. Hence the gank works best because we have no knowledge of whats at the destination without intelligence such as scouts. Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Alt duJour	Posted - 2004.11.08 19:17:00 - [49] Originally by: Veneth if you pitted 19 frigs and 1 BS vs 20 frigs. I'm sure the BS would have very little to no impact on the engagment because he would just be ganked in a flury of light missiles. That's to me is a massive tactical flaw of the game. that BS should swing the tide of the battle I'm fairly sure it would swing the tide, actually -- if properly tanked, it'd give the fleet with the battleship enough time to kill a number of enemy's frigates while they're busy getting the battleship down. Then it would be battle of 19 frigates vs now-way-less-than-20 frigates, which would be much easier to win. Oh, and i don't get the original poster's complaint tbh. In any game the ships die in few seconds when they are on receiving end of focused fire of 20+ ships. Including Nexus. The 'tactics' is then simplified to arranging the most effective targetting sequence...
Alt duJour	Posted - 2004.11.08 19:17:00 - [50] Originally by: Veneth if you pitted 19 frigs and 1 BS vs 20 frigs. I'm sure the BS would have very little to no impact on the engagment because he would just be ganked in a flury of light missiles. That's to me is a massive tactical flaw of the game. that BS should swing the tide of the battle I'm fairly sure it would swing the tide, actually -- if properly tanked, it'd give the fleet with the battleship enough time to kill a number of enemy's frigates while they're busy getting the battleship down. Then it would be battle of 19 frigates vs now-way-less-than-20 frigates, which would be much easier to win. Oh, and i don't get the original poster's complaint tbh. In any game the ships die in few seconds when they are on receiving end of focused fire of 20+ ships. Including Nexus. The 'tactics' is then simplified to arranging the most effective targetting sequence...
Veneth	Posted - 2004.11.08 19:22:00 - [51] Originally by: Alt duJour Originally by: Veneth if you pitted 19 frigs and 1 BS vs 20 frigs. I'm sure the BS would have very little to no impact on the engagment because he would just be ganked in a flury of light missiles. That's to me is a massive tactical flaw of the game. that BS should swing the tide of the battle I'm fairly sure it would swing the tide, actually -- if properly tanked, it'd give the fleet with the battleship enough time to kill a number of enemy's frigates while they're busy getting the battleship down. Then it would be battle of 19 frigates vs now-way-less-than-20 frigates, which would be much easier to win. Oh, and i don't get the original poster's complaint tbh. In any game the ships die in few seconds when they are on receiving end of focused fire of 20+ ships. Including Nexus. The 'tactics' is then simplified to arranging the most effective targetting sequence... You can't tank that many frigs :) it's just not possible. and even if the BS side did manage to pull out a victory. at what cost? they lost the BS and probably 1/3 to 1/2 the frigs. it's much easier to replace 20 frigs than a BS and get back into the fight
Veneth	Posted - 2004.11.08 19:22:00 - [52] Originally by: Alt duJour Originally by: Veneth if you pitted 19 frigs and 1 BS vs 20 frigs. I'm sure the BS would have very little to no impact on the engagment because he would just be ganked in a flury of light missiles. That's to me is a massive tactical flaw of the game. that BS should swing the tide of the battle I'm fairly sure it would swing the tide, actually -- if properly tanked, it'd give the fleet with the battleship enough time to kill a number of enemy's frigates while they're busy getting the battleship down. Then it would be battle of 19 frigates vs now-way-less-than-20 frigates, which would be much easier to win. Oh, and i don't get the original poster's complaint tbh. In any game the ships die in few seconds when they are on receiving end of focused fire of 20+ ships. Including Nexus. The 'tactics' is then simplified to arranging the most effective targetting sequence... You can't tank that many frigs :) it's just not possible. and even if the BS side did manage to pull out a victory. at what cost? they lost the BS and probably 1/3 to 1/2 the frigs. it's much easier to replace 20 frigs than a BS and get back into the fight
Hakera	Posted - 2004.11.08 19:27:00 - [53] Originally by: Veneth Originally by: Alt duJour Originally by: Veneth if you pitted 19 frigs and 1 BS vs 20 frigs. I'm sure the BS would have very little to no impact on the engagment because he would just be ganked in a flury of light missiles. That's to me is a massive tactical flaw of the game. that BS should swing the tide of the battle I'm fairly sure it would swing the tide, actually -- if properly tanked, it'd give the fleet with the battleship enough time to kill a number of enemy's frigates while they're busy getting the battleship down. Then it would be battle of 19 frigates vs now-way-less-than-20 frigates, which would be much easier to win. Oh, and i don't get the original poster's complaint tbh. In any game the ships die in few seconds when they are on receiving end of focused fire of 20+ ships. Including Nexus. The 'tactics' is then simplified to arranging the most effective targetting sequence... You can't tank that many frigs :) it's just not possible. and even if the BS side did manage to pull out a victory. at what cost? they lost the BS and probably 1/3 to 1/2 the frigs. it's much easier to replace 20 frigs than a BS and get back into the fight i duuno about that. a tanking frig killer setup, say a dom with lots of drones or a phoon could potentially manage 20 with right tactics and some luck Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Hakera	Posted - 2004.11.08 19:27:00 - [54] Originally by: Veneth Originally by: Alt duJour Originally by: Veneth if you pitted 19 frigs and 1 BS vs 20 frigs. I'm sure the BS would have very little to no impact on the engagment because he would just be ganked in a flury of light missiles. That's to me is a massive tactical flaw of the game. that BS should swing the tide of the battle I'm fairly sure it would swing the tide, actually -- if properly tanked, it'd give the fleet with the battleship enough time to kill a number of enemy's frigates while they're busy getting the battleship down. Then it would be battle of 19 frigates vs now-way-less-than-20 frigates, which would be much easier to win. Oh, and i don't get the original poster's complaint tbh. In any game the ships die in few seconds when they are on receiving end of focused fire of 20+ ships. Including Nexus. The 'tactics' is then simplified to arranging the most effective targetting sequence... You can't tank that many frigs :) it's just not possible. and even if the BS side did manage to pull out a victory. at what cost? they lost the BS and probably 1/3 to 1/2 the frigs. it's much easier to replace 20 frigs than a BS and get back into the fight i duuno about that. a tanking frig killer setup, say a dom with lots of drones or a phoon could potentially manage 20 with right tactics and some luck Dumbledore - Eve-I.com
Alt duJour	Posted - 2004.11.08 19:33:00 - [55] Originally by: Veneth You can't tank that many frigs :) it's just not possible. I don't mean to out-tank them. Just to serve as big fat target for first 1-2 missile salvos, giving the corpmates advantage of free couple of salvos at the enemy's frigates while they are occupied. Originally by: Veneth and even if the BS side did manage to pull out a victory. at what cost? they lost the BS and probably 1/3 to 1/2 the frigs. it's much easier to replace 20 frigs than a BS and get back into the fight It's up to the fleet commander if they think it's worthwile... the alternative would be what, 20 pilots are unable to put any serious dent in a battleship which seems even more ridiculous?
Alt duJour	Posted - 2004.11.08 19:33:00 - [56] Originally by: Veneth You can't tank that many frigs :) it's just not possible. I don't mean to out-tank them. Just to serve as big fat target for first 1-2 missile salvos, giving the corpmates advantage of free couple of salvos at the enemy's frigates while they are occupied. Originally by: Veneth and even if the BS side did manage to pull out a victory. at what cost? they lost the BS and probably 1/3 to 1/2 the frigs. it's much easier to replace 20 frigs than a BS and get back into the fight It's up to the fleet commander if they think it's worthwile... the alternative would be what, 20 pilots are unable to put any serious dent in a battleship which seems even more ridiculous?
Veneth	Posted - 2004.11.08 20:03:00 - [57] It's up to the fleet commander if they think it's worthwile... the alternative would be what, 20 pilots are unable to put any serious dent in a battleship which seems even more ridiculous? heh your asking the wrong person that question, I think Frigates are to strong in combat. there's little to no reason to fly much else in fleet combat atm. I could easily see 20 frigs tearing up a BS nicely. it's just a matter of simple it is for 20 frigates to do so.
Veneth	Posted - 2004.11.08 20:03:00 - [58] It's up to the fleet commander if they think it's worthwile... the alternative would be what, 20 pilots are unable to put any serious dent in a battleship which seems even more ridiculous? heh your asking the wrong person that question, I think Frigates are to strong in combat. there's little to no reason to fly much else in fleet combat atm. I could easily see 20 frigs tearing up a BS nicely. it's just a matter of simple it is for 20 frigates to do so.
Xelios	Posted - 2004.11.08 20:20:00 - [59] Edited by: Xelios on 08/11/2004 20:23:26 "heh your asking the wrong person that question, I think Frigates are to strong in combat. there's little to no reason to fly much else in fleet combat atm. I could easily see 20 frigs tearing up a BS nicely. it's just a matter of simple it is for 20 frigates to do so." I don't think frigates are too strong in combat. 20 frigs definatly should be able to kill a battleship. I think one of the major problems is that frigs can fit 10mn AB's, without these they would be balanced a bit more by the mwd speed nerf. In fleet battles frigs always die pretty quickly as everyone focuses on them (they're the real threat since they're the ones keeping you from warping out).
Xelios	Posted - 2004.11.08 20:20:00 - [60] Edited by: Xelios on 08/11/2004 20:23:26 "heh your asking the wrong person that question, I think Frigates are to strong in combat. there's little to no reason to fly much else in fleet combat atm. I could easily see 20 frigs tearing up a BS nicely. it's just a matter of simple it is for 20 frigates to do so." I don't think frigates are too strong in combat. 20 frigs definatly should be able to kill a battleship. I think one of the major problems is that frigs can fit 10mn AB's, without these they would be balanced a bit more by the mwd speed nerf. In fleet battles frigs always die pretty quickly as everyone focuses on them (they're the real threat since they're the ones keeping you from warping out).

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