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ISK farmers, why are they a problem from a players perspective?

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Wesfahrn	Posted - 2009.11.25 18:31:00 - [1] Hello everyone, I just skimmed through the first page of the new UI thread, and it looks like some people are scared that an open UI will help ISK farmers. Maybe that is the case - BTW open UI or closed UI was not meant to be discussed here - but how is that a problem toward the "casual" player? What are the implifications of ISK farming? o/
Yarinor Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2009.11.25 18:37:00 - [2] - Economy - Server load - Spamming of ingame chat channel - Account hacking - Credit card fraud
Oriens Pars	Posted - 2009.11.25 18:38:00 - [3] Edited by: Oriens Pars on 25/11/2009 18:45:18 I don't think it'll help ISK farmers only. I think it'll give some players an unfair advantage. Not only that, but no thanks to WoW style of play where your corp/alliance requires you to have a certain mod before being allowed to fleet up. Want a new UI, then we need to get on CCP more and make it a priority for them to overhaul it....how we do that who knows.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.11.25 18:38:00 - [4] For one thing they raise prices For another they reduce player income either by using limited resources, or by lowering the rewards. Eg: mission running suddenly got a lot more profitable after Unholy Rage, as the value of LP suddenly jumped more than 100%.

CCP Zymurgist Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.25 18:38:00 - [5] You should check out GM Grimmi's blog "Unholy Rage" It details some of the benefits players have received from the reduction of ISK Sellers, mainly performance issues. Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Elieza Gallente Amok. Minor Threat.	Posted - 2009.11.25 18:39:00 - [6] Farming affects resource availability, mostly. If you've ever been up to Venal you'll be very familiar with the farmers living in every system. They fly around in their cloaking ravens, cleaning out the belts from downtime to downtime. If you jump a combat ship in they just cloak up and it's almost impossible to kill them. They also consume system resources. If you've seen the graphs CCP released about "CPU per player" and how it went down some 25-30% when they banned the farmers -- that's more resources ("less lag") for us, which is always a plus. (Of course, I don't expect it helps fleet battle lagbombs any, but idk.) It also affects the cost of goods in empire. The excess supply of things like implants caused their price to be lower than they would otherwise. (Which, arguably, is good for players in the sense that things are cheaper and more available, but since it impinges on the free operation of the market I think it's a long-term disadvantage for us...) La la, etc etc. -- Here we go round and round...
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts	Posted - 2009.11.25 18:49:00 - [7] Quote: implifications I lol'd IRL -------------------------------------------- Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
Wesfahrn	Posted - 2009.11.25 18:56:00 - [8] Thank you for your posts. I am still having trouble understanding the issue. But i think i was looking at it wrongly. What we should be discussing is wether botthing should be allowed or not, as ISK farming can be anyone. IE. it doesent matter if the bot is cloaking, its already going against the official rules. So about botting, Maybe it just comes down to bad game mechanics. Botting would not be an issue if the game itself didnt encourage it. Well for me this thread has run its course. I just hope EVE 2 will have much more sophistiacted and rewarding gameplay, that really captivates the human spirit. Good luck and have fun all... .
Wesfahrn	Posted - 2009.11.25 19:02:00 - [9] Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts Quote: implifications I lol'd IRL Sorry im not a native speaker, good bye
Alaura Aquila Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.25 19:30:00 - [10] Originally by: Wesfahrn Originally by: Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts Quote: implifications I lol'd IRL Sorry im not a native speaker, good bye bye
John Blackthorn Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.11.25 19:36:00 - [11] Also consider that a player spends six months of work to obtain an item vs someone else that pulls out there credit card buys the isk and then obtains the same item in game. It just means that someone that has a lot of real like money can manipulate a game. -John
Resivan	Posted - 2009.11.25 19:53:00 - [12] Originally by: Wesfahrn Thank you for your posts. So about botting, Maybe it just comes down to bad game mechanics. Botting would not be an issue if the game itself didnt encourage it. All MMOs have ways to reward time spent at the keys. Using a bot gets you those rewards without putting in the time, and that gives botters a competitive advantage over legitimate players.
Jackson Brown	Posted - 2009.11.25 20:56:00 - [13] Originally by: John Blackthorn Also consider that a player spends six months of work to obtain an item vs someone else that pulls out there credit card buys the isk and then obtains the same item in game. It just means that someone that has a lot of real like money can manipulate a game. -John I can pull out my credit card, and buy as many game time codes (GTCs) as I want and sell them for ISK right now if I want, and it is fully sanctioned and supported by CCP. Botting and ISK farmers do not change that fact in anyway. Just face it, someone with more real life money than you can do whatever the hell they want with a lot less work and time. They could even buy enough GTCs for enough ISK to buy a 100m skill point character making years of skill point grinding on your end basically a waste of time. Sucks eh?
Wesfahrn	Posted - 2009.11.25 21:07:00 - [14] Originally by: Resivan Originally by: Wesfahrn Thank you for your posts. So about botting, Maybe it just comes down to bad game mechanics. Botting would not be an issue if the game itself didnt encourage it. All MMOs have ways to reward time spent at the keys. Using a bot gets you those rewards without putting in the time, and that gives botters a competitive advantage over legitimate players. Merely playing a game rewards the player in some manner, otherwise he wouldnt be playing, right? A bot cannot replace this. This begs the question why do people play? Its not for the tedious tasks, its for what comes after, or before perhaps. Eve online has game mechanics that makes people want to bot, so they can their true reward for playing the game which is individually different. Thats not to say some people dont enjoy the "botting" aspect, which can be classified as missions, mining and ratting among other things. What im trying to say is, making something tedious does not constitute a good game, in fact its the opposite, and it is despite the tedious bits and pieces of eve online that people play it not because of.
Captain Tardbar State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.11.25 21:23:00 - [15] Originally by: Wesfahrn Merely playing a game rewards the player in some manner, otherwise he wouldnt be playing, right? A bot cannot replace this. This begs the question why do people play? Actually... Botting would allow for great abuse in eve for people who want to roll their own fleets. There is a guy in Goonswarm that legits with 40 box setup tho. Also people who use botting for RMT are not interesting in playing the game.
Wesfahrn	Posted - 2009.11.25 21:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Captain Tardbar Originally by: Wesfahrn Merely playing a game rewards the player in some manner, otherwise he wouldnt be playing, right? A bot cannot replace this. This begs the question why do people play? Actually... Botting would allow for great abuse in eve for people who want to roll their own fleets. There is a guy in Goonswarm that legits with 40 box setup tho. Also people who use botting for RMT are not interesting in playing the game. How does that affect me?
Borun Tal Minmatar	Posted - 2009.11.25 21:40:00 - [17] I was going to suggest you read up on "Unholy Rage" and the latest quarterly economic report, but Zymurgist beat me to it. :)
Aloriate Amarr Big Buck Bunny Interstellar Solo Society	Posted - 2009.11.25 21:41:00 - [18] Quote: I can pull out my credit card, and buy as many game time codes (GTCs) as I want and sell them for ISK right now if I want, and it is fully sanctioned and supported by CCP. Botting and ISK farmers do not change that fact in anyway. Just face it, someone with more real life money than you can do whatever the hell they want with a lot less work and time. They could even buy enough GTCs for enough ISK to buy a 100m skill point character making years of skill point grinding on your end basically a waste of time. Sucks eh? Not really. It's the motivation behind it. I buy PLEX to get the extras in the game, because I have a full time job that often runs into overtime. I can let my toon skill up, but actually playing the game is less fun to me, because I don't have the ISK to get the ships that I can fly from LP. As for PLEX being the same as farming, I disagree. The money made from farming goes to the farmers; PLEX money goes to CCP, which in-turn makes for a better game in the long run. PLEX is just another avenue for players to get the toys and help CCP at the same time. Remember, CCP's objective is to make money, so I don't mind helping in that respect.
Captain Tardbar State Protectorate	Posted - 2009.11.25 21:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Wesfahrn Originally by: Captain Tardbar Originally by: Wesfahrn Merely playing a game rewards the player in some manner, otherwise he wouldnt be playing, right? A bot cannot replace this. This begs the question why do people play? Actually... Botting would allow for great abuse in eve for people who want to roll their own fleets. There is a guy in Goonswarm that legits with 40 box setup tho. Also people who use botting for RMT are not interesting in playing the game. How does that affect me? 1. Ever been focus fired? 2. How long is your block list?
Evee Amine Alsatia Industries	Posted - 2009.11.25 21:50:00 - [20] OP is an isk farmer. This post is quite obviously an attempt to sway public opinion that isk farmers are not bad, and people shouldn't care about them.
Sig Sour	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:07:00 - [21] My friends account was recently hacked. He is the director of a relativity successful small corporation. 95% of the corporations wealth was in assets. During the hack the assets were sold of to buy orders. Approximately 5-10 billion ISK of stuff sold off for less than a billion ISK. Some items were even traded off to active - non noob - players. Now if you know the first thing about the market in Eve, in general low sec, buy orders are EXTREMELY low in comparison to market value. So all of these people who may be competing with you just received billions of isk in goods for 1/10th of what they will resell it for. This was of coarse petitioned. The GM's responded to this by returning the ISK. The obvious ship trades to players was ignored and the items they will not return to us because it would cause economic imbalance (WTF!?). So how this effects players The Butterfly Effect: The corporation I am talking about maintains about an 85% k/d ratio. All of the assets in their hangar were eventually going to end up as (or in) a wreck. However if they maintained their current k/d ratio, by the time all those assets had been destroyed, you would be looking at an approximate value of 50 billion isk that should have been destroyed. That is a total of 60 billion isk combined that will not be destroyed in battle. Now weather it was someone who hacked CCP, a CCP employee, or the most likely situation - an ISK seller, the effects of someone hacking 1 persons account are perpetual.
Wesfahrn	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:10:00 - [22] Originally by: Captain Tardbar Originally by: Wesfahrn Originally by: Captain Tardbar Originally by: Wesfahrn Merely playing a game rewards the player in some manner, otherwise he wouldnt be playing, right? A bot cannot replace this. This begs the question why do people play? Actually... Botting would allow for great abuse in eve for people who want to roll their own fleets. There is a guy in Goonswarm that legits with 40 box setup tho. Also people who use botting for RMT are not interesting in playing the game. How does that affect me? 1. Ever been focus fired? 2. How long is your block list? I see. Allowing botting will make everyone swarm around with their own mini armies. This just means more stuff to shoot for the dedicated players, and more stuff to produce and sell for the dedicated players yes. The block list is growing, there is clearly a big market for RMT and spammers have easy access to the game. Game mechanics are still on a fundamental level flawed in order for this to happen at all.
Wesfahrn	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:15:00 - [23] Originally by: Evee Amine OP is an isk farmer. This post is quite obviously an attempt to sway public opinion that isk farmers are not bad, and people shouldn't care about them. If i was a ISK farmer, would it not be stupid for me to campaign to allow individual botting? I would be profitting more from a ban right, like a mafia
Jessica Lorelei Minmatar Decimus Corp	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:18:00 - [24] personally i think the losers that buy the isk are the biggest problem, get rid of them and the sellers will go eventually. everyone knows the negative impact it has on the game, but these complete waste of space idiots just carry on buying.
Wesfahrn	Posted - 2009.11.25 22:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Jessica Lorelei personally i think the losers that buy the isk are the biggest problem, get rid of them and the sellers will go eventually. everyone knows the negative impact it has on the game, but these complete waste of space idiots just carry on buying. No, what is the problem of buying ISKs?
Foraven Gallente	Posted - 2009.11.26 02:12:00 - [26] Originally by: Wesfahrn Originally by: Jessica Lorelei personally i think the losers that buy the isk are the biggest problem, get rid of them and the sellers will go eventually. everyone knows the negative impact it has on the game, but these complete waste of space idiots just carry on buying. No, what is the problem of buying ISKs? Cheating. Why play a game if there is no challenge in it?
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.11.26 02:16:00 - [27] Edited by: Zartanic on 26/11/2009 02:21:51 Originally by: Wesfahrn Originally by: Jessica Lorelei personally i think the losers that buy the isk are the biggest problem, get rid of them and the sellers will go eventually. everyone knows the negative impact it has on the game, but these complete waste of space idiots just carry on buying. No, what is the problem of buying ISKs? If you still have to ask that question despite being told then you're simply a Troll. Stop asking stupid questions or comment directly on the points being raised rather than cherry picking and repeating the same stupid mantra.
Red Flagsman	Posted - 2009.11.26 02:20:00 - [28] Originally by: Captain Tardbar Originally by: Wesfahrn Merely playing a game rewards the player in some manner, otherwise he wouldnt be playing, right? A bot cannot replace this. This begs the question why do people play? Actually... Botting would allow for great abuse in eve for people who want to roll their own fleets. There is a guy in Goonswarm that legits with 40 box setup tho. Also people who use botting for RMT are not interesting in playing the game. I think you've confused me with someone else, I'm planning to move to 40 accounts. ISK farmers ruin the game because they devalue regular player's effort. ...I guess I'd devalue regular player's efforts as well, but my minerals will never see the public economy.
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.11.26 02:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Red Flagsman Originally by: Captain Tardbar Originally by: Wesfahrn Merely playing a game rewards the player in some manner, otherwise he wouldnt be playing, right? A bot cannot replace this. This begs the question why do people play? Actually... Botting would allow for great abuse in eve for people who want to roll their own fleets. There is a guy in Goonswarm that legits with 40 box setup tho. Also people who use botting for RMT are not interesting in playing the game. I think you've confused me with someone else, I'm planning to move to 40 accounts. ISK farmers ruin the game because they devalue regular player's effort. ...I guess I'd devalue regular player's efforts as well, but my minerals will never see the public economy. People do confuse botting and boxing. Dunno why. 40 is pretty impressive.
SomebodyKickedMyDog	Posted - 2009.11.26 02:54:00 - [30] well, according to the philosophy of "eve is harsh," "eve isn't fair," "eve is a sandbox game," blah blah blah, there's nothing wrong with isk farmers. they're playing how they want to play. if people don't like it, too bad, because: "eve is harsh," "eve isn't fair," "eve is a sandbox game," blah blah blah.

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