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Dominion: Major Change To Agent Access

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
Tyler Kellerman	Posted - 2009.12.02 11:24:00 - [31] I think this is change is great. Before, I was just avoiding doing storyline missions or join FW because that would cut me off from a sizeable part of the EVE universe. Now, I can do these things again, because I know that, if I am willing to put a lot of effort into it, I will be able to raise my standings again.
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.02 11:28:00 - [32] Originally by: Vikarion Edited by: Vikarion on 02/12/2009 11:06:01 Thank you, CCP. I'm now off to grind in 0.0. As for you nay-sayers, I think you prove that, no matter how bad something is, someone will complain about it being changed for the better. It's remarkably easy to get yourself cut-off from a faction, especially the pirate factions, and, without this mechanic, it was possible to eventually lose standings with all but two empires, effectively cutting yourself off from nearly all the agents and RP possibilities in the game. In any sandbox, permanent barriers are not good. They constrict players from enjoying all parts of the game. If you enjoy being limited to one faction for the rest of your Eve career, good for you. But don't try to make the rest of us - the vast majority, I'll note - live by your personal rules of enjoyment. Incidentally, this should get more people out to 0.0, because the factions that were most difficult (or impossible) to recover from were the pirate ones. Empire factions were, and always have been, relatively easy to recover. its not naysaying. the standing mechanics have existed since i first started playing 5yrs ago and yes the game has evolved. while people may believe they were cut off you actually never were. even being limited to 2 sides of the universe nev er really had much of an impact. you could successfully play and live fully functioning within 2 empire borders. it was never my personal play style it was CCP mechanics but it was a fully functional system with reward and consequence. now its pure reward all the consequence has been removed. this is a war/RP game and even if its a sanbox there should be consequence. THIS IS EVE !!! this does nothing towards getting people to 0.0 carebears dont even like low sec :/ one of the problems of the pirate standing was that you NEVER fought against non racial pirates. minnies always had angels and amarr to kill and it was tedius then all of a sudden you had bloods, guristas, sanshas etc to kill and you forgot the standings aspects cause you trusted CCP and was less aware of the implications or were never going to 0.0 anywhere. my issue isnt with mechanics or the reasons why its been done im a grown up for god sake and its not my game BUT the consequences have been removed and the balance is ****ed
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.02 12:59:00 - [33] Originally by: Mikal Drey its not naysaying. the standing mechanics have existed since i first started playing 5yrs ago and yes the game has evolved. while people may believe they were cut off you actually never were. even being limited to 2 sides of the universe nev er really had much of an impact. you could successfully play and live fully functioning within 2 empire borders. it was never my personal play style it was CCP mechanics but it was a fully functional system with reward and consequence. now its pure reward all the consequence has been removed. this is a war/RP game and even if its a sanbox there should be consequence. THIS IS EVE !!! this does nothing towards getting people to 0.0 carebears dont even like low sec :/ one of the problems of the pirate standing was that you NEVER fought against non racial pirates. minnies always had angels and amarr to kill and it was tedius then all of a sudden you had bloods, guristas, sanshas etc to kill and you forgot the standings aspects cause you trusted CCP and was less aware of the implications or were never going to 0.0 anywhere. my issue isnt with mechanics or the reasons why its been done im a grown up for god sake and its not my game BUT the consequences have been removed and the balance is ****ed But the consequences are still there, and they are basically the same as before (unless you're just looking at it from an RP standpoint). Just that instead of grinding derived standings you can grind standings directly now, but slower. In most cases derived standings are still going to be faster due to having access to higher level storyline agents. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.12.02 20:04:00 - [34] Originally by: Mikal Drey NEGATIVE standings cut you off from an entire faction and got you KOS to that empire. that impact was massive and the effect rippled out considerably. now you can take a L1 mission for anyone the consequence of your actions is completely removed. I managed to push my amarr to almost -10 base and while it totally destroyed alot of gameplay it forced me to realise how much of the content was always available to me anyway and my eyes were opened and tbvfh it enriched the universe more (my perspective) with this new mechanic you can effectivly go +10 to every empire at any point you choose and change sides, do all COSMOS, go anywhere, do anything. i know someone who got cut off from his R&D agent and it made both of us laugh but we understood the consequence of getting all of your cake and eating it. Empire has become a huge sticking point and the divide between 0.0/low sec/high sec is causeing more and more friction and this new mechanc gives the carebear side another reward. so empire is all reward with no loss :/ its good to give people something to redeem themselves but its totally against the backstory and has little to no logic.. using the derived method which was insanely difficult to redeem yourself through but it was possible. now its so easy it devalues the system. i DO like it for pirates as they are common criminals and should always allow anyone to work for them the pirate standings have always confused me to an extent because of the whole kill in belt but work in station mechanics but i digress . .. except most people never even go that negative to any faction but the pirate factions. and ccp seemed to make that recovery far easier then run level 1 missions. also being a sandbox there should always be a route back. ccp seems to have opted for the try an epic arc, or grind the hell out of level 1s. the road back used to be slightly more complicated, guess it still mostly is, but running for friendly factions. not sure which would be best, I could go run minmatar missions pretty easily on one char, would have to grind up a corp standing but not below the -2 point, so that would be rather easy. but -6 or something to gallente. not sure if the derived standings from minmatar level 4 storylines, or gallente level 1 storylines would be best for recovery. on a side note what is the effect of doing the guristas epic arc on caldari state standings You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
Drakarin Gallente The Abyssmal Spire Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.12.02 21:07:00 - [35] Originally by: Jagga Spikes Originally by: Spii't Gelekk This great, perhaps people can do the faction missions more. However, nice you can access a L1 agent, but if you're red (shoot on sight) then that won't help you so much. Or am i missing something here? if you are red to empire faction, you have probably been around for long enough to fit frigate/destroyer more than capable to evade said faction. it shouldn't be more than minor annoyance. Faction navy follows you everywhere. A destroyer/frigate cannot tank them.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.03 01:14:00 - [36] Dumb change tbh, making the game even more wow-like. Before there were real consequences for one's actions, now everything is repairable and fluffy, nothing final. You can be worse than Adolf ****** towards a certain faction, kill thousands of their ships and mass-murder millions of crewmen - but with a little grind you can become friend again with them: that's neither realistic nor is it within the spirit of Eve (that is if Eve is still supposed to be a dark and harsh game, and not turning into a pink carebear lovegame).
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.03 03:22:00 - [37] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Dumb change tbh, making the game even more wow-like. Before there were real consequences for one's actions, now everything is repairable and fluffy, nothing final. You can be worse than Adolf ****** towards a certain faction, kill thousands of their ships and mass-murder millions of crewmen - but with a little grind you can become friend again with them: that's neither realistic nor is it within the spirit of Eve (that is if Eve is still supposed to be a dark and harsh game, and not turning into a pink carebear lovegame). Yeah, once again. With the exception of gurista/sansha/blood (you had to have all three unrecoverable to create the hole) there was no "final" faction holes, all were recoverable. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2009.12.03 08:43:00 - [38] Originally by: Mikal Drey Originally by: CCP Dropbear I have to disagree there, myself. I'll readily admit that my own first impressions were that it was a fairly big change, but then I considered what it would take to move beyond those agents, and realized a lot of work lay ahead running missions to redeem yourself (fix your faction standings). What we'd changed was that this was now actually possible, whereas previously it was simply...not. This is good, no? NO ! its a very interesting change and now there should be less posts about standing reversal. However; standings have played HUGE part of the game for a very very long time. There has ALWAYS been a consequence for your actions and the side that you had chosen. <snip> So you would probably like security status to only go one direction too? Once a person crosses -5.0 sec, they are forever lost to high sec? Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Kern Hotha	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:23:00 - [39] I slipped to -6 with Gallente without even realizing it. This option to run missions in low sec to repair that is simply excellent. Many thanks.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Dark-Rising IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.03 11:06:00 - [40] Quote: The above was in the tax feedback thread- but the new change is great in a lot of ways. FW becomes feasible to try, fixing tanked standinds wont be easy- but will be possible at least I have been in FW long enough to get some promotions both in Gallente and Minmatar FW and also did plexing and low sec missions.... and when I stopped it I had no "tanked standing" at all. In a day after I left FW, I got back to pre-FW standings with the former enemy factions. What did I do that you didn't? - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Simon Man	Posted - 2009.12.04 20:02:00 - [41] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Dumb change tbh, making the game even more wow-like. Before there were real consequences for one's actions, now everything is repairable and fluffy, nothing final. You can be worse than Adolf ****** towards a certain faction, kill thousands of their ships and mass-murder millions of crewmen - but with a little grind you can become friend again with them: that's neither realistic nor is it within the spirit of Eve (that is if Eve is still supposed to be a dark and harsh game, and not turning into a pink carebear lovegame). Hardly WoW like. I love how you said "little grind".... You seem to have no idea how long its going to take reversing a -7.32 Caldari standing doing nothing but Lv 1's... months, a year... I dont know yet.
Zeerover DeadSpace Exploration and Investigations	Posted - 2009.12.04 23:32:00 - [42] Edited by: Zeerover on 04/12/2009 23:32:43 I love this change. Now I can restore plenty of messed up factions. For instance I can now use the Thukker agents that have stations in Ammatar space (even if the reason I cannot use them is that having taken my Ammatar standing upwards has completely borked the Thukker standings). I never understood the harsh penalty with Ammatar/Thukker considering the tribe has plenty of stations in Derelik. Same goes for my Gallente standing which is borked for doing lvl5 missions for Ammatar and Caldari, yes it will take forever and a bit, but that's ok. A good change:)
Ten Bulls Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.05 00:43:00 - [43] Originally by: CCP Dropbear Originally by: Marius KorAzor Am I reading this correctly? If I have a standing of -2.0 with a faction or corporation, the agents of level one and negative quality are now available in post Dominion eve? Keep in mind also that the upcoming pirate epic arcs also have a standings "redemption" mechanic that can take you from -10.00 to 0.00 - which cuts out a lot of Level 1 missions! How do these changes effect concord faction and corp standings ? AFAIK doing important missions for pirate factions reduces concord standing, are people going to get a big hit to concord standings from these epic arcs ? Still no way to improve concord standings i assume.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.05 06:15:00 - [44] Originally by: Ten Bulls Originally by: CCP Dropbear Originally by: Marius KorAzor Am I reading this correctly? If I have a standing of -2.0 with a faction or corporation, the agents of level one and negative quality are now available in post Dominion eve? Keep in mind also that the upcoming pirate epic arcs also have a standings "redemption" mechanic that can take you from -10.00 to 0.00 - which cuts out a lot of Level 1 missions! How do these changes effect concord faction and corp standings ? AFAIK doing important missions for pirate factions reduces concord standing, are people going to get a big hit to concord standings from these epic arcs ? Still no way to improve concord standings i assume. CONCORD standings don't matter unless you get below -5, which won't happen from derived standings changes. The lowest you can get is -3 which is something like -1 effective with Diplomacy 4. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Lusty Wench	Posted - 2009.12.08 22:50:00 - [45] Edited by: Lusty Wench on 08/12/2009 22:52:22 Originally by: Mikal Drey 8x Agents Total L1 Q0 and below 6x high sec - 4x Tryteldad 2x low sec - BOTH Amamake thats not alot and thats not distributed across the region. so you have a limited mechanic and will most likley drive the traitors into tryteldad as you can easily ***** multiple L1 agents especially as those are the command/intel agents and the others being more courier based ones. Why only 1 region? Try this: LVL1 Q<=0 Amarr http://eve-online.itemdrop.net/eve_db/agents?agent_type=2&agent_name=&security_from=1&security_to=-1&quality_from=&quality_to=&std_from=-1&std_to=0&sort_by=&corp_size=&level[]=1&factions[]=500003&constellation=&solarsystem= 310 agents... Go crazy

CCP Dropbear	Posted - 2009.12.08 23:58:00 - [46] Indeed. I thought I posted to say as much (that there's way more agents than you listed, Mikal) but I guess I forgot. Thanks, Lusty.

Vikarion Caldari Chorus of Nephilim	Posted - 2009.12.09 00:42:00 - [47] Originally by: CCP Dropbear Indeed. I thought I posted to say as much (that there's way more agents than you listed, Mikal) but I guess I forgot. Thanks, Lusty. Thanks again for this change, guys. I really, really do appreciate it. ---
Mikal Drey Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.09 01:00:00 - [48] Originally by: Lusty Wench Why only 1 region? Try this: LVL1 Q<=0 Amarr er . .. cause as previously mentioned . . . IM BANNED FROM AMARR SPACE. maybe i wasnt clear but its the existing restriction of the ability to go into hostile faction space. this mechanic is to correct fubar faction standings. totally gimped faction standings wont allow you to mission with much success in amarr space my post wasnt about every single amarr agent in the entire game but the effect of negative standings being a restriction towards using the new mechanic and it being limiting BECAUSE of the hostile faction coppers trying to blast your ass into the va**of space as it stands atm my choice of redemption is WITHIN home space or WITHIN friendly space. even genesis is a nightmare for me cause its got CONCORD constelaion sov as well as amarr sov. as per my origional statement to CCP was that a consideration ? or will gimped standings and redemption available agent be taken into consideration ? remember this is still a new mechanic (direct access, not derived method) and its only logical that CCP would extend it to give greater access as issues like completly **ed standings may be an issue for some players (although not me)
S'Way	Posted - 2009.12.09 06:19:00 - [49] Originally by: Mikal Drey as it stands atm my choice of redemption is WITHIN home space or WITHIN friendly space. If someone's hammered their Amarr standings that badly, then the solution is to run for a Caldari agent in Gallente space. There's plenty of Ishukone etc agents around Sinq Laison for example. The derived standings to Amarr will be tiny and take forever to get up to not being shot at...but at least it gives them the option to redeem that if they have to (should they join a corp on the other side of the galaxy for example)...but it's still going to be a heck of a grind that not many will have the stomach for. The best part of it imo is it now gives a way to redeem standings with the pirate faction triangle that until now if you were negative to all three meant you were locked out forever.

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