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Unliscenced Pilot
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Posted - 2009.12.01 16:50:00 -
[1]
Hello was wondering if some1 could help me out with a couple of short scripts i have for a few labs. If any1 has some time to help me do them i would apreciate it; contact me via email me at [email protected] and i will email you the cpp files and such its nothing too difficult has to deal with pointers and such but im stuck on doing them, they have to deal with pointers and such, its for a class. I smell ISK given if helped 30mil per lab finished all are half complete just some minor rewriting total of 4 labs for now.
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lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis
THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2009.12.01 16:52:00 -
[2]
Asking your fellow eve pilots to do your homework for you is NOT cool. Maybe for 100mil each... 
 Originally by: salva dore
Cloak should not be AFK solution.
What do you think?
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
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Genya Arikaido
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Posted - 2009.12.01 16:54:00 -
[3]
I sense someone that will never be hired by CCP.
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Felo Maxun
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Posted - 2009.12.01 16:56:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Felo Maxun on 01/12/2009 16:57:21
i suspect that your tutor runs surgerys or such , attend them , dont cheat or youll never make your further years
http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/classes/
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Lord Ado
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:16:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Lord Ado on 01/12/2009 17:17:10
Not learning that stuff yourself or actually paying attention in class to the material leads to, you not getting the labs done which results in a lower grade which would hopefully lead to actually paying greater attention and not letting the material get past you.
Pointers are a fundamental topic in C++ and if you don't get them you will suffer for it in future coding endeavors.
On a side note that is why I stopped using C++ since its a pain in the ass to find the smallest bug you coded into your project which was more than likely related to pointer arithmetic. Long live C#
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BL4CKR41N
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:28:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Lord Ado
Edited by: Lord Ado on 01/12/2009 17:17:10
Not learning that stuff yourself or actually paying attention in class to the material leads to, you not getting the labs done which results in a lower grade which would hopefully lead to actually paying greater attention and not letting the material get past you.
Pointers are a fundamental topic in C++ and if you don't get them you will suffer for it in future coding endeavors.
On a side note that is why I stopped using C++ since its a pain in the ass to find the smallest bug you coded into your project which was more than likely related to pointer arithmetic. Long live C#
There is nothing wrong with pointer arithmatic. When I was forced to move to C# I died a little - although not as much as I died when I wrote Java, I wanted to emorage quit life.
Call me crazy but I was a big fan of asm for motorola chips although 8051's weren't too awful bad.
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Armoured C
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:32:00 -
[7]
someone make a app for my G1 tmobile google phone please
pretty please 
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:42:00 -
[8]
I'm confused. What is this lab1.cpp.exe file you sent me? It won't open automatically in Visual Studio when I double click on it.
Geez, people. Hubris should never overwhelm paranoia.
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"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP" |
Zoe Midoru
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:42:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lord Ado
Edited by: Lord Ado on 01/12/2009 17:17:10
On a side note that is why I stopped using C++ since its a pain in the ass to find the smallest bug you coded into your project which was more than likely related to pointer arithmetic. Long live C#
This. Manual memory management, no garbage collection, and pointers are the triumvirate of programming language fail.
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BL4CKR41N
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:58:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Zoe Midoru
Originally by: Lord Ado
Edited by: Lord Ado on 01/12/2009 17:17:10
On a side note that is why I stopped using C++ since its a pain in the ass to find the smallest bug you coded into your project which was more than likely related to pointer arithmetic. Long live C#
This. Manual memory management, no garbage collection, and pointers are the triumvirate of programming language fail.
This is more like programmer ability fail.
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Ak'athra J'ador
Amarr
Imperial Shipment
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:00:00 -
[11]
actually pointers can do some really cool stuff...
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:16:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Crackzilla on 01/12/2009 18:22:45
Originally by: BL4CKR41N
This is more like programmer ability fail.
Problem is that if you try and show off your ability enough times it'll eventually come back to bite you.
Most people want to write software that is reliable and costs the least to maintain. C# and Java is a godsend here.
I liked the 030/040's because the assembly was easy. Plus I could follow along the machine code fairly well in a hex editor.
I think teaching assembly/machine code would be a good starting point versus c++/java. From a productivity standpoint those days weren't worth it.
Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
actually pointers can do some really cool stuff...
But not really worth the cost or risk except in some cases. Things like function pointers etc have been taken over oop.
C/C++ is mostly the current low level language. Use the least bit of assembly possible, just enough C for drivers to work, then get everything else done in a higher level language.
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BL4CKR41N
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:31:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: BL4CKR41N
This is more like programmer ability fail.
Problem is that if you try and show off your ability enough times it'll eventually come back to bite you.
Most people want to write software that is reliable and costs the least to maintain. C# and Java is a godsend here.
Originally by: Ak'athra J'ador
actually pointers can do some really cool stuff...
But not really worth the cost or risk except in some cases. Things like function pointers etc have been taken over oop.
C/C++ is mostly the current low level language. Use the least bit of assembly possible, just enough C for drivers to work, then get everything else done in a higher level language.
It's not about showing off, it's about meeting requirements. I'll give you C\C++ CAN be harder to debug.
C++ is not a low level language. ASM is a low level language, C++ isn't a high level but certainly isn't low level. I'm not negating C# and Java as they obviously have their place and (except for java imho) work well. My problem is that everyone tries to use them in ways they shouldn't be. I find both of them to be resource hogs, with java being more so than C# althoug it depends on the programmer.
While I do like GC, I find that it creates some really really lazy programmers and introduces a new world of new it and forget about it! The gc will eventually get it when there are no more hard links to it amirite? This is obvious fail. But wait you say you can invoke the gc when you want! That's great, but since you still have some links tied to the object you can call gc all you want.
As for lifecycle costs, it all depends again on the programmer. I watched a guy create code as complex as he could so that they wouldn't fire him because he thought no one else would be able to read it and understand, only him. Needless to say he didn't last long.
I'm not saying that you or anyone else is fail, I'm merely pointing out that of my programming friends/co-workers I find the "lower" level of language you get, in general the better programmer they are. Again these are my own findings of those around me. I always laugh a little when one of VB.NET/Java programmers have that "But I don't have a built in function or class to do that for me" look.
Of course I'm a big fan of proof of concepts in C# as it's very quick to throw something together... but when it comes to making it run fast (think embedded applications here) and reliably C++ is my "goto" (ha!) language.
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Ukucia
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:37:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Zoe Midoru
Originally by: Lord Ado
Edited by: Lord Ado on 01/12/2009 17:17:10
On a side note that is why I stopped using C++ since its a pain in the ass to find the smallest bug you coded into your project which was more than likely related to pointer arithmetic. Long live C#
This. Manual memory management, no garbage collection, and pointers are the triumvirate of programming language fail.
Could you point out a language with garbage collection that doesn't make "Hello World" take over 10MB of RAM? 'Cause it ain't Java, C#, Python, Ruby, etc.
If you're writing the typical database front end, high-level languages are good.
If you're writing anything that needs performance, high-level languages are often too slow.
If you're writing anything that needs to fit in a small footprint, high-level languages are horrible.
Programming languages are just tools. Any good programmer has several tools in their toolbox and uses the appropriate one at the appropriate time.
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Lord Ado
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:37:00 -
[15]
don't get me wrong I did like learning and playing with pointers but that part of my coding experience is dead and gone. I will for ever live in the realm of C# and letting GC manage the memory allocations for me. I have done some programming in asm and smalltalk, god help me java but I can say that when i found C# it was life again!
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Zitus
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:38:00 -
[16]
Originally by: stoicfaux
I'm confused. What is this lab1.cpp.exe file you sent me? It won't open automatically in Visual Studio when I double click on it.
Geez, people. Hubris should never overwhelm paranoia.
ROFL, is that what he's sending?
That's just rich...
Also, leave pointers alone. what did they ever do to you?
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Illwill Bill
Svea Rike
The Council.
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:39:00 -
[17]
Shouldn't this be in OOE?
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Mavrk
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Zitus
Also, leave pointers alone. what did they ever do to you?
Show me on the doll where the pointer pointed at you...
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BL4CKR41N
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:40:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ukucia
Originally by: Zoe Midoru
Originally by: Lord Ado
Edited by: Lord Ado on 01/12/2009 17:17:10
On a side note that is why I stopped using C++ since its a pain in the ass to find the smallest bug you coded into your project which was more than likely related to pointer arithmetic. Long live C#
This. Manual memory management, no garbage collection, and pointers are the triumvirate of programming language fail.
Could you point out a language with garbage collection that doesn't make "Hello World" take over 10MB of RAM? 'Cause it ain't Java, C#, Python, Ruby, etc.
If you're writing the typical database front end, high-level languages are good.
If you're writing anything that needs performance, high-level languages are often too slow.
If you're writing anything that needs to fit in a small footprint, high-level languages are horrible.
Programming languages are just tools. Any good programmer has several tools in their toolbox and uses the appropriate one at the appropriate time.
OMFG I LOVE YOU... umm I mean... quoted for truth.
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Bicx
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:50:00 -
[20]
Pointers are often a difficult concept to understand when you're first learning how to use them. However, if you take the time to figure out how they work and what they are doing, that will make things a lot easier. I have friends I went to school with who never quite understood pointers. They ended up playing around with labs that required pointers until they got something that appeared to work, only to receive a note from the professor on how they were done incorrectly. Unfortunately those notes were usually clipped onto failed exams.
In college, the faculty isn't there to make sure you learn the material. They are there to point you in the right direction and rate the results of your studies. It's up to you to make sure you work hard enough to earn your degree (and become a reliable software developer in the real world).
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Xessej
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:51:00 -
[21]
Originally by: BL4CKR41N
Originally by: Zoe Midoru
Originally by: Lord Ado
Edited by: Lord Ado on 01/12/2009 17:17:10
On a side note that is why I stopped using C++ since its a pain in the ass to find the smallest bug you coded into your project which was more than likely related to pointer arithmetic. Long live C#
This. Manual memory management, no garbage collection, and pointers are the triumvirate of programming language fail.
This is more like programmer ability fail.
If you can't learn to deallocate memory you allocated and can't learn to do pointer math then you have no business writing code as you will certainly write bad code no matter what programming language you write in.
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CCP Zymurgist
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:52:00 -
[22]
Moved to Out of Pod Experience.
Zymurgist
Community Representative
CCP Hf, EVE Online
Contact us |
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2009.12.01 19:42:00 -
[23]
Originally by: BL4CKR41N
C++ is not a low level language. ASM is a low level language, C++ isn't a high level but certainly isn't low level.
But C is the current low level language of choice and has mostly replaced straight up asm. Look at the percentage of asm/C code in the linux kernel. Look at the functions that are critical for performance. The compilers work well enough that there is little actual need for asm.
Originally by: BL4CKR41N
I find both of them to be resource hogs, with java being more so than C# althoug it depends on the programmer.
Yes but these days resource hogs don't matter that much. Write first, worry about performance and resources later. Otherwise too much time is spent on optimizing code that does need it.
Originally by: Xessej
If you can't learn to deallocate memory you allocated and can't learn to do pointer math then you have no business writing code as you will certainly write bad code no matter what programming language you write in.
The problem was that even known good programmers were making too many mistakes here. Then you toss in average programmers like you or I and the chances for casual mistakes skyrocket. Add in the casual programmers and it is a disaster.
This is like teaching the pull out method of safe sex.
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Helgur
Steel Soldier's
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Posted - 2009.12.01 19:50:00 -
[24]
Originally by: BL4CKR41N
As for lifecycle costs, it all depends again on the programmer. I watched a guy create code as complex as he could so that they wouldn't fire him because he thought no one else would be able to read it and understand, only him. Needless to say he didn't last long.
I think this tactic is used by many programmers. Back in 2001 I was employed by a large corporation to help them with support of one of their statistical analysis programs (statistic of population movement and population prediction for the government). Being a C/C++ programmer with a university degree I wanted to see and work with the code myself and was quite shocked that this large program (which had been a pet and programmed only by one person) was filled with goto code. I mean browsing the code was like browsing a mesh with 2 tonnes of Italian overcooked spaghetti. It was horrific.
Him being a senior programmer and me a rookie in the firm I never manned up to confront him with this. Especially not after deleting a server with all his mp3 Abba collection by accident. He went mental and refused to go outside his office for a week. Three years after I left the firm for another job. He still works there.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.12.02 02:10:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Helgur
Him being a senior programmer and me a rookie in the firm I never manned up to confront him with this. Especially not after deleting a server with all his mp3 Abba collection by accident. He went mental and refused to go outside his office for a week. Three years after I left the firm for another job. He still works there.
you forgot the quotes around "accidentally"
You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.12.02 03:18:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Helgur
Originally by: BL4CKR41N
As for lifecycle costs, it all depends again on the programmer. I watched a guy create code as complex as he could so that they wouldn't fire him because he thought no one else would be able to read it and understand, only him. Needless to say he didn't last long.
I think this tactic is used by many programmers. Back in 2001 I was employed by a large corporation to help them with support of one of their statistical analysis programs (statistic of population movement and population prediction for the government). Being a C/C++ programmer with a university degree I wanted to see and work with the code myself and was quite shocked that this large program (which had been a pet and programmed only by one person) was filled with goto code. I mean browsing the code was like browsing a mesh with 2 tonnes of Italian overcooked spaghetti. It was horrific.
Him being a senior programmer and me a rookie in the firm I never manned up to confront him with this. Especially not after deleting a server with all his mp3 Abba collection by accident. He went mental and refused to go outside his office for a week. Three years after I left the firm for another job. He still works there.
When I was in night school learning C/C++, the professor warned us that writing complicated code will get us shot by our coworkers. If we actually get a jury of our peers, that is, 12 programmers, then they would likely (and justifiably) be not guilty for justifiable homicide.
12 years later, I have seen enough source code that has made me want to put out a contract on those who wrote it.
The worst problem I see in source code these days comes from college students. Code that impresses the professor, who likely never held a real job in software, does not work in the real world. Part of the functionality of a program is in how fast is can be understood and modified to adapt.
Snarky, cryptic code that is more geared to making the author feel smarter than he actually is, is more trouble than its worth, and team leads/managers (like myself) seek to get rid of that type of programmer. Usually that type of programmer is also that sort who downloads an indie App on his iPhone and then calls himself a hacker.
Another thing is lack of documentation. Seriously. You are sitting at a desk. Is life a "he who burns the least calories wins" contest? Would it kill your lazy ass to put comments in the source code? I have seen FORTRAN programs thousands of lines long without one damned comment. I had to write programs that went into source code of other programs to modify them so they would not fail when the year 2000 came.
I see a nice discussion about languages here. Look, you will not always have Visual Studio to work with. I use VS2008 Pro, but even that has a command line working in the background and the IDE hardly knows how to fully exploit it. Netbeans is great but you need to know how to handle javac at the prompt because Netbeans will screw up eventually.
But if you are tying yourself to one language or IDE, you are screwing yourself big time. You have to be flexible to survive. I create a C++ OpenGL demo and then the boss wants it in C#/XNA. But I gotta stop to write something in FORTRAN(no kidding this happened recently).
You cannot choose something that you "like". I learned programming from having to adapt countermeasures systems in fighter jets and those libraries were all written in hex code. Then I got out and went to work on mainframes and all I had was a measly 2 year degree in electronics but they saw I can "solve problems with computers - any computer, any tools" and that was enough.
It was always enough.
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Xessej
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Posted - 2009.12.02 03:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Xessej
If you can't learn to deallocate memory you allocated and can't learn to do pointer math then you have no business writing code as you will certainly write bad code no matter what programming language you write in.
The problem was that even known good programmers were making too many mistakes here. Then you toss in average programmers like you or I and the chances for casual mistakes skyrocket. Add in the casual programmers and it is a disaster.
This is like teaching the pull out method of safe sex.
Not really. I've been making my livingwriting C/C++ for the last 15 years or so and can't remember the last time I had a bug related to pointer math or memory leakage. It's simply a matter of learning from experience and being careful when you're coding.
The real problem, from years and years of mentoring junior programmers, is too many programmers got CS degrees the way the op is getting his, not doing the hard work. 5 years ago I had a junior coder on my team that not only routinely made fence post errors but didn't know the term or why his code was always 1 iteration off his desired outcome. My boss used to joke that he was paying me $125/hour to tutor the guy in beginning programming practices (until he just fired the guy for incompetence).
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Crackzilla
The Shadow Order
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Posted - 2009.12.02 18:13:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Xessej
can't remember the last time I had a bug related to pointer math or memory leakage. It's simply a matter of learning from experience and being careful when you're coding.
And how do you get the experience? You make lots and lots of mistakes until the lesson holds. This can be expensive. It can be subtle. It can consume time like having passed a ref to a variable on the stack to a callback function then having the app crash 15 minutes later. Maybe a duh moment once you realize but it probably isn't something that you should have to worry about to begin with.
Many developers do not write in one language for long periods of time. They'll switch to different languages based on the project. The context cost of shifting from language to language goes up. So the risk goes up. Add in inconsistent and confusing APIs and mistakes will happen.
Better to eliminate the risk when possible.
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stoicfaux
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Posted - 2009.12.02 21:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Zitus
Originally by: stoicfaux
I'm confused. What is this lab1.cpp.exe file you sent me? It won't open automatically in Visual Studio when I double click on it.
Geez, people. Hubris should never overwhelm paranoia.
ROFL, is that what he's sending?
That's just rich...
No idea, I didn't try to email him.
Why would anyone post a c/c++ lab question on the Eve forums except to try to hack accounts? If you need help with code, use google. There's plenty of sample code, mailing lists, dev specific forums and/or tutorials out on the web.
-----
"Are you a sociopathic paranoid schizophrenic with accounting skills? We have the game for you!
-- Eve, the game of Alts, Economics, Nietzsche, and PvP" |
Xessej
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Posted - 2009.12.03 05:12:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Crackzilla
Originally by: Xessej
can't remember the last time I had a bug related to pointer math or memory leakage. It's simply a matter of learning from experience and being careful when you're coding.
And how do you get the experience? You make lots and lots of mistakes until the lesson holds. This can be expensive. It can be subtle. It can consume time like having passed a ref to a variable on the stack to a callback function then having the app crash 15 minutes later. Maybe a duh moment once you realize but it probably isn't something that you should have to worry about to begin with.
Many developers do not write in one language for long periods of time. They'll switch to different languages based on the project. The context cost of shifting from language to language goes up. So the risk goes up. Add in inconsistent and confusing APIs and mistakes will happen.
Better to eliminate the risk when possible.
Actually it is more about learning good practices and following them. Simple stuff like coding the memory deallocation when you code the allocation. Experience is more about knowing when more stringent care needs to be taken with memory management and when it is best to go tell the junior coder that his fancy callback solution increases the chance of hard to detect bugs and for him to produce a better solution.
If more programmers had their code reviewed for best practices, even by automated tools, we'd have less buggy code and fewer bad coders calling for more and more dumbed down programming languages.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.12.03 06:13:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
When I was in night school learning C/C++, the professor warned us that writing complicated code will get us shot by our coworkers. If we actually get a jury of our peers, that is, 12 programmers, then they would likely (and justifiably) be not guilty for justifiable homicide.
12 years later, I have seen enough source code that has made me want to put out a contract on those who wrote it.
The worst problem I see in source code these days comes from college students. Code that impresses the professor, who likely never held a real job in software, does not work in the real world. Part of the functionality of a program is in how fast is can be understood and modified to adapt.
Snarky, cryptic code that is more geared to making the author feel smarter than he actually is, is more trouble than its worth, and team leads/managers (like myself) seek to get rid of that type of programmer. Usually that type of programmer is also that sort who downloads an indie App on his iPhone and then calls himself a hacker.
Another thing is lack of documentation. Seriously. You are sitting at a desk. Is life a "he who burns the least calories wins" contest? Would it kill your lazy ass to put comments in the source code? I have seen FORTRAN programs thousands of lines long without one damned comment. I had to write programs that went into source code of other programs to modify them so they would not fail when the year 2000 came.
I see a nice discussion about languages here. Look, you will not always have Visual Studio to work with. I use VS2008 Pro, but even that has a command line working in the background and the IDE hardly knows how to fully exploit it. Netbeans is great but you need to know how to handle javac at the prompt because Netbeans will screw up eventually.
But if you are tying yourself to one language or IDE, you are screwing yourself big time. You have to be flexible to survive. I create a C++ OpenGL demo and then the boss wants it in C#/XNA. But I gotta stop to write something in FORTRAN(no kidding this happened recently).
You cannot choose something that you "like". I learned programming from having to adapt countermeasures systems in fighter jets and those libraries were all written in hex code. Then I got out and went to work on mainframes and all I had was a measly 2 year degree in electronics but they saw I can "solve problems with computers - any computer, any tools" and that was enough.
It was always enough.
heh one of my professors was saying to make sure your code was understandable because when you, hopefully, get promoted (and not fired) you don't want whoever is taking your job calling you up all the time
I was also lucky enough, in another class, to have someone from industry taking some refresher classes. the professor printed out a copy of a page of her code to show everyone. there was about a paragraph explaining what the function did, and how it did it. also all the lines were nicely indented and lined up. in c++/java my comments aren't the best, but I make to have methods/functions/variables that do/mean exactly what they say. but in my assembly programs almost every line is commented.
then again I have yet to work on a project where I don't have a paragraph on each function handed to me by a professor. I think I had one project where 80%+ of my comments were copy/paste from the project description document.
although I would like to see an example of the "Code that impresses the professor" most of the code I have done has been if it isn't nicely formatted and somewhat decently commented don't bother showing it to them. many headaches from working on eclipse on my laptop, and then trying to put it on a school computer and try to print it out. "your lines wrap here, here, and here, fix it."
You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Zoe Midoru
Eve University
Ivy League
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Posted - 2009.12.04 05:57:00 -
[32]
Low-level languages are used in more places where a high level language would result in better maintainability and reliability of the codebase than high-level languages are used in places where their footprint is inappropriate.
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