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Question about percentage and fixed bonus calculations.

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Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.10 12:40:00 - [1] Edited by: Derisor on 10/11/2004 13:40:41 If you have a stat that is being augmented with fixed bonuses and percentage increases, which one is applied first or second and where do skills fit in? For example, consider speed of a ship. Lets say your base speed is 200m/s. You have two modules that give you a 5%, speed bonus, you get 15% speed bonus because of skills and you have another mod with a fixed 30 speed bonus. How do you calculate the final speed? I am 99% certain that order of activation is irrelevant (except in the case of temp boosters which Im not covering here) Base Speed = Sb Final Speed = Sf Bonus Percent from Modules = Pm Bonus Percent from Skills = Ps Bonus value from modules = Vm My guess would be: Sf = (Sb + Vm) * Pm * PS However there are other variations: Sf = (Sb + Vm) * (Pm + Ps) ... And many more. Does anyone know the right formula ? Edit: Examples show why the question is important. Assume the user has a 200 base speed, 30 bonus overdrive, 4% from another module and 20% skill bonus. Sf = (Sb + Vm) * Pm * PS = (200 + 30) * 4% * 20% = 287.04 Sf = (Sb + Vm) * (Pm + Ps) = (200 + 30) * (4% + 20%) = 285.2 Sf = (Sb * Pm * Ps) + Vm = (200 * 4% * 20%) + 30 = 279.6 Sf = (Sb * (Pm + Ps)) + Vm = (200 * (4% + 20%)) + 30 = 278 --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.10 12:40:00 - [2] Edited by: Derisor on 10/11/2004 13:40:41 If you have a stat that is being augmented with fixed bonuses and percentage increases, which one is applied first or second and where do skills fit in? For example, consider speed of a ship. Lets say your base speed is 200m/s. You have two modules that give you a 5%, speed bonus, you get 15% speed bonus because of skills and you have another mod with a fixed 30 speed bonus. How do you calculate the final speed? I am 99% certain that order of activation is irrelevant (except in the case of temp boosters which Im not covering here) Base Speed = Sb Final Speed = Sf Bonus Percent from Modules = Pm Bonus Percent from Skills = Ps Bonus value from modules = Vm My guess would be: Sf = (Sb + Vm) * Pm * PS However there are other variations: Sf = (Sb + Vm) * (Pm + Ps) ... And many more. Does anyone know the right formula ? Edit: Examples show why the question is important. Assume the user has a 200 base speed, 30 bonus overdrive, 4% from another module and 20% skill bonus. Sf = (Sb + Vm) * Pm * PS = (200 + 30) * 4% * 20% = 287.04 Sf = (Sb + Vm) * (Pm + Ps) = (200 + 30) * (4% + 20%) = 285.2 Sf = (Sb * Pm * Ps) + Vm = (200 * 4% * 20%) + 30 = 279.6 Sf = (Sb * (Pm + Ps)) + Vm = (200 * (4% + 20%)) + 30 = 278 --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 12:46:00 - [3] Skills and modules having more of a spectrum with a percentage chance of success instead of it being cemented and the outcome when two stacked skills are pinned against eachother predetermined. Convert Stations
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 12:46:00 - [4] Skills and modules having more of a spectrum with a percentage chance of success instead of it being cemented and the outcome when two stacked skills are pinned against eachother predetermined. Convert Stations
mahhy	Posted - 2004.11.10 12:51:00 - [5] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Skills and modules having more of a spectrum with a percentage chance of success instead of it being cemented and the outcome when two stacked skills are pinned against eachother predetermined. What?
mahhy	Posted - 2004.11.10 12:51:00 - [6] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Skills and modules having more of a spectrum with a percentage chance of success instead of it being cemented and the outcome when two stacked skills are pinned against eachother predetermined. What?
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:06:00 - [7] Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Danton Marcellus Skills and modules having more of a spectrum with a percentage chance of success instead of it being cemented and the outcome when two stacked skills are pinned against eachother predetermined. What? I have no idea what he said either. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:06:00 - [8] Originally by: mahhy Originally by: Danton Marcellus Skills and modules having more of a spectrum with a percentage chance of success instead of it being cemented and the outcome when two stacked skills are pinned against eachother predetermined. What? I have no idea what he said either. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:10:00 - [9] Please, it was a post against predeterminism and being able to calculate the outcome of everything before hand given a certain scenario. Making the game more of a gamble than a safe calculation. Convert Stations
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:10:00 - [10] Please, it was a post against predeterminism and being able to calculate the outcome of everything before hand given a certain scenario. Making the game more of a gamble than a safe calculation. Convert Stations
mahhy	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:11:00 - [11] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Please, it was a post against predeterminism and being able to calculate the outcome of everything before hand given a certain scenario. Making the game more of a gamble than a safe calculation.
mahhy	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:11:00 - [12] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Please, it was a post against predeterminism and being able to calculate the outcome of everything before hand given a certain scenario. Making the game more of a gamble than a safe calculation.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:13:00 - [13] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Please, it was a post against predeterminism and being able to calculate the outcome of everything before hand given a certain scenario. Making the game more of a gamble than a safe calculation. Uh ya .. but I assure you there is an algorithm in the software. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:13:00 - [14] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Please, it was a post against predeterminism and being able to calculate the outcome of everything before hand given a certain scenario. Making the game more of a gamble than a safe calculation. Uh ya .. but I assure you there is an algorithm in the software. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:16:00 - [15] Then again it was a mild case of the hijackings... Convert Stations
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:16:00 - [16] Then again it was a mild case of the hijackings... Convert Stations
voidvim	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:16:00 - [17] me too what Danton Marcellus makes no sence I think the first guess is right Sf = (Sb + Vm) * Pm * PS as modules fitted will get your skill bounus, say a overdrive that gives 30 will increas your speed by 32
voidvim	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:16:00 - [18] Edited by: voidvim on 10/11/2004 13:19:11 opps double post
voidvim	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:16:00 - [19] me too what Danton Marcellus makes no sence I think the first guess is right Sf = (Sb + Vm) * Pm * PS as modules fitted will get your skill bounus, say a overdrive that gives 30 will increas your speed by 32
voidvim	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:16:00 - [20] Edited by: voidvim on 10/11/2004 13:19:11 opps double post
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:17:00 - [21] I have no idea about either Deresor or Danton are talking about. As for modules modifying stats then they are multiplied. The only time percentages are added are for skill levels as rapid firing gives 5% to rof per level it gives 45% = 20% at level 4. if you then have a module that adds 5% bonus to rof you get 1.21.05 = 1.26 or 26% bonus total to rof. I hope this is of some help but more likely it becomes the third incomprehensible post in this thread. __________ Capacitor research
Dust Puppy	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:17:00 - [22] I have no idea about either Deresor or Danton are talking about. As for modules modifying stats then they are multiplied. The only time percentages are added are for skill levels as rapid firing gives 5% to rof per level it gives 45% = 20% at level 4. if you then have a module that adds 5% bonus to rof you get 1.21.05 = 1.26 or 26% bonus total to rof. I hope this is of some help but more likely it becomes the third incomprehensible post in this thread. __________ Capacitor research
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Dust Puppy I have no idea about either Deresor or Danton are talking about. As for modules modifying stats then they are multiplied. The only time percentages are added are for skill levels as rapid firing gives 5% to rof per level it gives 45% = 20% at level 4. if you then have a module that adds 5% bonus to rof you get 1.21.05 = 1.26 or 26% bonus total to rof. I hope this is of some help but more likely it becomes the third incomprehensible post in this thread. It is. I didnt ask about that. Aggregate bonuses in skills are added, that much is clear. However, the formula options posted lead to quite different results. I would like to know which one is the real one. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:27:00 - [24] Originally by: Dust Puppy I have no idea about either Deresor or Danton are talking about. As for modules modifying stats then they are multiplied. The only time percentages are added are for skill levels as rapid firing gives 5% to rof per level it gives 45% = 20% at level 4. if you then have a module that adds 5% bonus to rof you get 1.21.05 = 1.26 or 26% bonus total to rof. I hope this is of some help but more likely it becomes the third incomprehensible post in this thread. It is. I didnt ask about that. Aggregate bonuses in skills are added, that much is clear. However, the formula options posted lead to quite different results. I would like to know which one is the real one. --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:30:00 - [25] Originally by: voidvim me too what Danton Marcellus makes no sence I think the first guess is right Sf = (Sb + Vm) * Pm * PS as modules fitted will get your skill bounus, say a overdrive that gives 30 will increas your speed by 32 Yeah but the formula is harder when it gets to the percent increases. If a mod has a 4% gain and I have a 20% gain, do I get 24% or do I get 4% + (4% * 20%) = 4.8%? --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Derisor	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:30:00 - [26] Originally by: voidvim me too what Danton Marcellus makes no sence I think the first guess is right Sf = (Sb + Vm) * Pm * PS as modules fitted will get your skill bounus, say a overdrive that gives 30 will increas your speed by 32 Yeah but the formula is harder when it gets to the percent increases. If a mod has a 4% gain and I have a 20% gain, do I get 24% or do I get 4% + (4% * 20%) = 4.8%? --------- The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one.
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:31:00 - [27] This is a bout things like cap batteries, overdrives etc yeah ? The additive bonus is applied first, then the multipliers. In the case of overdrives, you get an extra 5%/lvl of navigation on the fixed bonus. In the case of cap bats, you lose 25% of the fixed bonus by fitting an mwd. That one isn't so good. Still don't know what everybody above was talking about though
Toran Mehtar	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:31:00 - [28] This is a bout things like cap batteries, overdrives etc yeah ? The additive bonus is applied first, then the multipliers. In the case of overdrives, you get an extra 5%/lvl of navigation on the fixed bonus. In the case of cap bats, you lose 25% of the fixed bonus by fitting an mwd. That one isn't so good. Still don't know what everybody above was talking about though
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:35:00 - [29] Edited by: Discorporation on 10/11/2004 13:40:59 Works like this: Assume base number 100, skill gives 5%/lvl, skill lvl 4 and two 10% mods. (100 * 1.10)x (1.101.10) Skill modifies base number, the result becomes what the mods % affects Value from modules is directly added to base, before skill or mod modifications are made. so Sf = ((Sb+Vm) Ps) * (Pm1 * Pm2) *edit: I am not a mathlete, above equation might very well be totally off [Heterocephalus glaber]
Discorporation	Posted - 2004.11.10 13:35:00 - [30] Edited by: Discorporation on 10/11/2004 13:40:59 Works like this: Assume base number 100, skill gives 5%/lvl, skill lvl 4 and two 10% mods. (100 * 1.10)x (1.101.10) Skill modifies base number, the result becomes what the mods % affects Value from modules is directly added to base, before skill or mod modifications are made. so Sf = ((Sb+Vm) Ps) * (Pm1 * Pm2) *edit: I am not a mathlete, above equation might very well be totally off [Heterocephalus glaber]

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