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Amanda Star
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Posted - 2009.12.02 16:36:00 -
[1]
Well made an alt to see how the new tutorial is. Most of it was ok, interesting that some blow your ship up.
I got to one tutorial that game me a destroyer. I had 7 guns on it from other tutorial missions. I went out and the NPC keeps ya well out of range and webs and warp scrambles ya and kills ya. I go back to the station and no destroyer replacement. So I drop mission in attempt to get it again and another destroyer, the agent is no dead to me. LOL. I have played Eve for a while now and will say that these tutorials are WAY had for starting players and ya loose the destroyer and get no replacement? That's a pretty half baked tutorial I would say. Look, if ya going to have that hard of tutorial for GOD's sake replace the ship and give them some guns for the replacement destroyer.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.02 16:44:00 -
[2]
is that Advanced Combat tutorial? one that is supposed to teach about losing?
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Amanda Star
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Posted - 2009.12.02 16:53:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Amanda Star on 02/12/2009 16:55:01 Was for Min race Was the bottom agent Gonakis Erettafrin. Was the 2nd or 3rd mission.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.02 16:58:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Amanda Star Look, if ya going to have that hard of tutorial for GOD's sake replace the ship and give them some guns for the replacement destroyer.
How is the tutorial supposed to teach you about losing your ship if you actually don't lose it?
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.02 16:59:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Seriously Bored on 02/12/2009 16:59:52
Originally by: Amanda Star Well made an alt to see how the new tutorial is. Most of it was ok, interesting that some blow your ship up.
I got to one tutorial that game me a destroyer. I had 7 guns on it from other tutorial missions. I went out and the NPC keeps ya well out of range and webs and warp scrambles ya and kills ya. I go back to the station and no destroyer replacement. So I drop mission in attempt to get it again and another destroyer, the agent is no dead to me. LOL. I have played Eve for a while now and will say that these tutorials are WAY had for starting players and ya loose the destroyer and get no replacement? That's a pretty half baked tutorial I would say. Look, if ya going to have that hard of tutorial for GOD's sake replace the ship and give them some guns for the replacement destroyer.
Sweet, free Destroyer exploit!!!
No. I'm pretty sure them giving you a shiny toy just to take it away from you is intended. Gotta learn about the ***** of PVP the hard way.
You experienced that mission exactly as you were supposed to, and have experienced the very feelings you were meant to. That sounds like good design to me.
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Amanda Star
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Posted - 2009.12.02 17:01:00 -
[6]
They got 2+ ones that do teach ya about loss. They do tell ya in them misisons about lasting as long as ya can and stuff. This mission tells you the goal of what to kill. Hence you should get another Destroyer. Also the tutorials do tell you dropping a mission within 4hrs, but nothing about decling that training agents mission and takeing a new one which results on the agent will not give any more.
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2009.12.02 17:02:00 -
[7]
Point of the new combat tutorial is to show the newbies what EVE is about. And it rightly goes like this:
"Hello rookie, I will now show you how EVE feels like." *stabs rookie in the belly* "There. This is how EVE feels. Better get used to it. Yes, we can put those back in. Now stop crying and fight on, rookie, this isn't Hello Kitty Online!"
IMHO, it's perfect. --------
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Amanda Star
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Posted - 2009.12.02 17:10:00 -
[8]
Well to a new player these things will put off a person from wanting to play Eve.
You can say the fanboi thing about it being perfect and stuff but in reality if a new player finds the tutorial real steep and hard, what exactly will make him/her want to play Eve if they can't get past the tutorial?
Lost ships, YES it a part of Eve but in a tutorial to have them replaced so the person can learn what to do, how and complete the tutorial makes sence, not leaving them hanging.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.02 17:12:00 -
[9]
Edited by: James Tritanius on 02/12/2009 17:15:53
Originally by: Amanda Star Well to a new player these things will put off a person from wanting to play Eve.
You can say the fanboi thing about it being perfect and stuff but in reality if a new player finds the tutorial real steep and hard, what exactly will make him/her want to play Eve if they can't get past the tutorial?
Lost ships, YES it a part of Eve but in a tutorial to have them replaced so the person can learn what to do, how and complete the tutorial makes sence, not leaving them hanging.
Advanced Combat Tutorial
Maybe the point of that is to be as close to the real thing as possible? In other words, getting you used to losing ships? The Destroyer was free anyway, I don't know what you are on about.
----
EDIT: Also, didn't a warning pop up informing you that you will no longer receive missions from that Agent when you attempted to quit mission? Yet you confirmed to quit that mission anyway, then came onto the forums to whine about how the agent will not reset the mission.
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Amanda Star
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Posted - 2009.12.02 17:24:00 -
[10]
#1 this is a alt to see how the tutorial is.
#2 Stop trying to start a flame war by saying whining and crap, grow up junior.
#3 My post is I am trying to look at this through the eyes of a new player.
Seeing the 'some' of the replies and flame boy mentality in here is not welcome to most new players. Wanna name call and crap go back to WoW. Most the Eve community is more mature I have noticed so if your not going to be a team player you need to stop replying to this thread.
Eve is a great game and if I see something that might need looked at to make it more appealing to new players I will say something cause I love this game.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.02 17:40:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Amanda Star Lost ships, YES it a part of Eve but in a tutorial to have them replaced so the person can learn what to do, how and complete the tutorial makes sence, not leaving them hanging.
They already know what to do (shooting stuff. What they do not know is that in EVE, unlike in other games, your loss is permanent. And if he is upset now when losing a ship, he sure as hell will be upset when losing a ship later on, as well.
I didn't do the new tutorial but I'm pretty sure the new player is not left hanging. He still has one or more ships and can carry on.
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Amanda Star
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Posted - 2009.12.02 18:30:00 -
[12]
Do the trial account, make a alt minutar and do the tutorial. There is now 5 agents, do the bottom agent 1st.
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.02 18:41:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Amanda Star Do the trial account, make a alt minutar and do the tutorial. There is now 5 agents, do the bottom agent 1st.
Sry, cba.
But from what i gather from this thread: If the first thing you do is the Advanced Combat Tutorial and lose the free destroyer in the process.....
The newb can still do the other tutorials and get free ships and mods. No problem here.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.02 18:44:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Amanda Star #1 this is a alt to see how the tutorial is.
#2 Stop trying to start a flame war by saying whining and crap, grow up junior.
#3 My post is I am trying to look at this through the eyes of a new player.
Seeing the 'some' of the replies and flame boy mentality in here is not welcome to most new players. Wanna name call and crap go back to WoW. Most the Eve community is more mature I have noticed so if your not going to be a team player you need to stop replying to this thread.
Eve is a great game and if I see something that might need looked at to make it more appealing to new players I will say something cause I love this game.
I see you haven't addressed any of my points; instead you focused on the tone of my reply. Well, ignore my wording and answer my objections please.
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Amanda Star
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Posted - 2009.12.02 19:13:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Amanda Star Do the trial account, make a alt minutar and do the tutorial. There is now 5 agents, do the bottom agent 1st.
Sry, cba.
But from what i gather from this thread: If the first thing you do is the Advanced Combat Tutorial and lose the free destroyer in the process.....
The newb can still do the other tutorials and get free ships and mods. No problem here.
If ya loose the destroyer, there is not another powerful enough ship and you can not finish the mission to progress onto the next tutorial. So you was saying?
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Callista Sincera
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.02 19:19:00 -
[16]
Originally by: James Tritanius Maybe the point of that is to be as close to the real thing as possible? In other words, getting you used to losing ships?
No. That's a different tutorial. You're not supposed to lose the ship in this one.
Originally by: James Tritanius The Destroyer was free anyway, I don't know what you are on about.
Probably that it would be very hard to replace it at this point in your EVE career. CCP stated before that they gathered a lot of data on where people drop out of the tutorial and that it is very important to them that people complete the tutorials, so it seems only reasonable that they don't want you to drop in these new tutorials either.
In light of that OP's post appears to be quite legitimate to me. No idea why most of the people who replied here felt the need to belittle the OP. This forum is the right place post these issues.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.02 19:27:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Callista Sincera
Originally by: James Tritanius Maybe the point of that is to be as close to the real thing as possible? In other words, getting you used to losing ships?
No. That's a different tutorial. You're not supposed to lose the ship in this one.
Oh, in that case, I retract what I said above. Perhaps the OP can specify exactly which tutorial mission the next time around.
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Amanda Star
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Posted - 2009.12.02 21:04:00 -
[18]
If agent at the top of the list is where one needs to start and the bottom one is Advnaced Combat training CCP needs to make all the lower ones unavilable. As you complete your tutorial training the next agent SHOULD be made available. Picking the bottom agent there is nothing that tells uyou its hard or give a real indication that you should do the agents from top down. Therefore it is a small flaw in the tutorial process wouldn't you say?
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Nika Dekaia
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Posted - 2009.12.02 22:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Amanda Star If agent at the top of the list is where one needs to start and the bottom one is Advnaced Combat training CCP needs to make all the lower ones unavilable. As you complete your tutorial training the next agent SHOULD be made available. Picking the bottom agent there is nothing that tells uyou its hard or give a real indication that you should do the agents from top down. Therefore it is a small flaw in the tutorial process wouldn't you say?
Once again. If you deliberately choose "Advanced Combat Training" as your first assignement there is NO NEED TO CRY. You had it coming.
This is EVE, a sandbox. That means you have choices. But you have to live with the consequences of your choices, as well. There is no reason to keep new players safe from that, because that would be nothing less than lieing to them about the game.
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Amanda Star
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Posted - 2009.12.02 23:11:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Amanda Star If agent at the top of the list is where one needs to start and the bottom one is Advnaced Combat training CCP needs to make all the lower ones unavilable. As you complete your tutorial training the next agent SHOULD be made available. Picking the bottom agent there is nothing that tells uyou its hard or give a real indication that you should do the agents from top down. Therefore it is a small flaw in the tutorial process wouldn't you say?
Once again. If you deliberately choose "Advanced Combat Training" as your first assignement there is NO NEED TO CRY. You had it coming.
HAHAHA your pretty ignorant I can tell. So if a new player losses a destroyer in a tutorial that they need to finish the tutorial they had it coming? Wow, that will really make them want to pay to play Eve I would say..... not.
This is EVE, a sandbox. That means you have choices. But you have to live with the consequences of your choices, as well. There is no reason to keep new players safe from that, because that would be nothing less than lieing to them about the game.
ROFL... you babble about choices? Its a tutorial about LEARNING, not getting throttled with no way to go on to the next tutorial.
Your clearly a TROLL from WoW Land. Go back to your Blizzard God and leave this thread to mature Eve players.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.02 23:46:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Jagga Spikes on 02/12/2009 23:51:14 again, it's "Advanced Combat Tutorial". it's not meant for rookie characters. it's for people that have already progressed in game, but aren't into pvp. this gives them a taste of pvp, and being able to replace ships form your wallet is one of the lessons.
if anything, there should be warning that this tutorial is not meant for starting characters.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.03 01:39:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Jagga Spikes Edited by: Jagga Spikes on 02/12/2009 23:51:14 again, it's "Advanced Combat Tutorial". it's not meant for rookie characters. it's for people that have already progressed in game, but aren't into pvp. this gives them a taste of pvp, and being able to replace ships form your wallet is one of the lessons.
if anything, there should be warning that this tutorial is not meant for starting characters.
Actually, I just personally went and done the beginner Advanced Combat Tutorials on my low-sp alt.
The tutorial is indeed geared towards beginners. It teaches you how to use afterburners, missile launchers, webs, disruptors and shield transporters.
- HOWEVER -
I fail to see how you, Amanda, managed to lose your cormorant in that last mission... The tutorial agent and Aura specifically warned you about the pirate boss. They told you, in big red letters, multiple times, that the boss will be able to both stasis web you and scramble you and they have provided you with a myriad of strategies on how to defeat them.
The pirate boss has a maximum speed of 270m/s and he orbits you at around 8km. His scrambler breaks off at around 9km and his web deactivates at 10km. If you have either a web or an afterburner fitted, you should be able to easily disengage from him. Even if you don't have those modules fitted, a webbed frigate goes about 180m/s, and that is enough to break out of his scramble range while he is orbiting you.
Additionally, if you are using long range weaponry (railguns, beam lasers, artillery cannons, standard missiles), you should be able to pop him easily as he orbits relatively far away (for a frigate) at 8km. If you are using short range weapons instead, you could easily burn into range with your afterburners and melt him. If you are using short range weapons and neither have an afterburner nor a web, then you fail. You deserve to die if you don't have any range-dictating modules while using short range weapons and it isn't CCP's fault.
Again, it is very hard to die in the last mission...
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N'tek alar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.03 03:02:00 -
[23]
Just want to say... Can you really see no issue with the possibility of abandoning and re-accepting the mission and getting a new destroyer and guns every time?
Accept, Melt destroyer and guns, Abandon mission.
Repeat 200 times, Sell minerals, Woohoo! ------------------------- I'm not shirtless damnit! |
ThaDollaGenerale
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2009.12.03 05:03:00 -
[24]
ya != you
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Grarr Wrexx
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Posted - 2009.12.03 06:28:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Amanda Star Edited by: Amanda Star on 02/12/2009 23:27:03
Originally by: Nika Dekaia
Originally by: Amanda Star If agent at the top of the list is where one needs to start and the bottom one is Advnaced Combat training CCP needs to make all the lower ones unavilable. As you complete your tutorial training the next agent SHOULD be made available. Picking the bottom agent there is nothing that tells uyou its hard or give a real indication that you should do the agents from top down. Therefore it is a small flaw in the tutorial process wouldn't you say?
Once again. If you deliberately choose "Advanced Combat Training" as your first assignement there is NO NEED TO CRY. You had it coming.
'HAHAHA your pretty ignorant I can tell. So if a new player losses a destroyer in a tutorial that they need to finish the tutorial they had it coming? Wow, that will really make them want to pay to play Eve I would say..... not. '
This is EVE, a sandbox. That means you have choices. But you have to live with the consequences of your choices, as well. There is no reason to keep new players safe from that, because that would be nothing less than lieing to them about the game.
ROFL... you babble about choices? Its a tutorial about LEARNING, not getting throttled with no way to go on to the next tutorial.
Your clearly a TROLL from WoW Land. Go back to your Blizzard God and leave this thread to mature Eve players.
The ADVANCED COMBAT TUTORIAL is learning you to harden the **** up. Apparently, you didn't get the memo, but you still need to harden the **** up.
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Callista Sincera
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.03 08:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Nika Dekaia This is EVE, a sandbox. That means you have choices. But you have to live with the consequences of your choices, as well. There is no reason to keep new players safe from that, because that would be nothing less than lieing to them about the game.
Uh, seriously. No. It's a tutorial. I already mentioned that CCP doesn't want people to drop out of those. There's a post about how they analyzed their statistics and specifically tried to improve the tutorials where people used to quit them.
That doesn't mean I think the mission is too hard, but I think there should be some sort of safety net to prevent newbies from screwing up their access to these tutorial-agents. EVE uses a very different concept from most current games, so it stands to reason to give newbies some leeway while getting used to this.
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