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Regarding 11% tax on NPC corps...

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Shazard Gallente Intaki Liberation Front	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:22:00 - [1] Actually why ppl do care for that? Why not consider it as 11% lower mission rewards? Just plain thing which lowered prices for missions, bounties... There are brave ones. And then there are those whom the brave ones will follow.
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:30:00 - [2] Originally by: Shazard Actually why ppl do care for that? Why not consider it as 11% lower mission rewards? Just plain thing which lowered prices for missions, bounties... People don't any more so why bring it up again?
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.03 09:32:00 - [3] My Jita trade alt that makes 200-400 mil an hour doesn't seem to be affected by it. My mission runner has been in a 1-man corp for 8 months though, no big deal there either. It's just... really quiet. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Future Mutant Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.12.03 11:38:00 - [4] Originally by: Shazard Actually why ppl do care for that? Why not consider it as 11% lower mission rewards? Just plain thing which lowered prices for missions, bounties... If the change was 11% lower rewards for bounties and missions i wouldnt have a problem with it. But the change targets a specific play style. Those who like to relax and run a few missions while chatting- now find theyve been singled out for a special tax. One can only assume ccp thinks theyre "playing the game wrong". I used to help ppl all the time in npc chat- cant now that im not there anymore. Eves learning curve just got a little bit steeper for new players. As for your "its only 11% argument". If you honestly dont think its unfair to be singled out and that amount isnt much- then by all means send 11% of your income to some random pilot passing by. We both know you wont be doing it though- because when your making isk every bit helps.
Miyamoto Uroki Caldari Black Thorne Corporation	Posted - 2009.12.03 11:53:00 - [5] Risk vs reward, my friend, that's the key here. You don't want the 11% tax? It's simple really. create your own corp, leave tax at 0% and off you go. BUT, of course that leaves you vulvernable to war decs. So it's your choice really, no need to complain about it. Both choices have benefits and risks.
Future Mutant Republic Military School	Posted - 2009.12.03 12:19:00 - [6] Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki Risk vs reward, my friend, that's the key here. You don't want the 11% tax? It's simple really. create your own corp, leave tax at 0% and off you go. BUT, of course that leaves you vulvernable to war decs. So it's your choice really, no need to complain about it. Both choices have benefits and risks. Um no. Risk vs reward has nothing to do with it. Lets be realistic here. In an npc corp i cant be wardeked- In a one man player corp i can be wardeked- but as soon as i am i leave the corp, and form another one man corp. Theres also ways to avoid a wardek without having to remake another corp. I wont even have to leave it and im 100% not war dekable. So its not risk vs reward- its simply npc chat or 11% tax.
thisisnotmikaldrey	Posted - 2009.12.03 12:32:00 - [7] Originally by: Future Mutant In a one man player corp i can be wardeked- but as soon as i am i leave the corp, and form another one man corp. Theres also ways to avoid a wardek without having to remake another corp. I wont even have to leave it and im 100% not war dekable. So its not risk vs reward- its simply npc chat or 11% tax. i forsee . . . . "you cannot close a corporation whilst a war declaration is active as this would violate the yulai convention" OFC then you would create a non active holding alt
Jowen Datloran Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2009.12.03 13:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Future Mutant So its not risk vs reward- its simply npc chat or 11% tax. The ability to use fleet finder to make fleets within the NPC corporations and team up with potential new friends should not be underestimated as a benefit of hanging around in a NPC corp. So now there is that and the chat for the 11% tax. ---------------- Mr. Science & Trade Institute
Lotto Luckman	Posted - 2009.12.03 13:45:00 - [9] Originally by: Future Mutant If the change was 11% lower rewards for bounties and missions i wouldnt have a problem with it. But the change targets a specific play style. Those who like to relax and run a few missions while chatting- now find theyve been singled out for a special tax. One can only assume ccp thinks theyre "playing the game wrong". I used to help ppl all the time in npc chat- cant now that im not there anymore. Eves learning curve just got a little bit steeper for new players. You are correct in a sense, but looking at it in the wrong way. CCP is not trying to punish NPC corp members so much as they're trying to encourage them to join player corps. As to your statement about joining a player corp steepening the learning curve... in my experience people will learn much more from the members of a good player corp than they ever will in an NPC corp. That is unless you pick a horrible player corp, which is your own fault for not doing your research. All of this aside, something needed to be done about NPC corps. Being able to be war-dec immune and 0% tax was ridiculous and actually encouraged people to not join player corps. It was counter to what EVE is all about.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.03 14:08:00 - [10] This whole thread just bring to the surface the issue that only NPC kills and mission rewards are ever taxed (by corp taxes). The most profitable things to do in the game are exempt But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.

Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.03 14:28:00 - [11] Originally by: Wet Ferret This whole thread just bring to the surface the issue that only NPC kills and mission rewards are ever taxed (by corp taxes). The most profitable things to do in the game are exempt The most profitable things to do in the game are also subject to competition, so that's ok. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Ralic Garzaat	Posted - 2009.12.03 14:45:00 - [12] As a new player, I welcome this change. Joining a player corporation often felt like loosing money since the NPC corporations had 0% tax and player corporations had something around 10%. It took me a while to join a player corporation just for that reason. Now it's more balanced and joining a player corporation may be advantageous in terms of tax rate, before you even get to the corp benefits.
Dave Meltdown Capital Construction Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.03 14:48:00 - [13] CCP should really raise it to 30 or 40% to create more bear tears
K'uata Sayus	Posted - 2009.12.03 14:59:00 - [14] Edited by: K''uata Sayus on 03/12/2009 15:06:11 Edited by: K''uata Sayus on 03/12/2009 15:05:20 The tax encouraged me to form a 1-man player corp with a cool logo, clever corp ticker, and cryptic corp description. I also rented an office in a station that has cheap rent, so now I can sort my stuff in a corp hangar. I never used NPC corp chat, couldn't get past the inane jabbering and epeen waving types. I think a lot of players will view this as a newfound sense of freedom, I'm sorta interested in seeing how many new corps will be formed in the next couple of weeks. EVERYONE SEEMS NORMAL UNTIL YOU GET TO KNOW THEM.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.03 15:10:00 - [15] Originally by: K'uata Sayus The tax encouraged me to form a 1-man player corp with a cool logo, clever corp ticker, and cryptic corp description. I also rented an office in a station that has cheap rent, so now I can sort my stuff in a corp hangar. I never used NPC corp chat, couldn't get past the inane jabbering and epeen waving types. I think a lot of players will view this as a newfound sense of freedom, I'm sorta interested in seeing how many new corps will be formed in the next couple of weeks. Having your own corp is amazingly convenient isn't it? Maybe we should start a channel for NPC corp refugees in one man corps Originally by: Dave Meltdown CCP should really raise it to 30 or 40% to create more bear tears OMG, they're so cute! But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Kerfira	Posted - 2009.12.03 16:52:00 - [16] Originally by: K'uata Sayus The tax encouraged me to form a 1-man player corp with a cool logo, clever corp ticker, and cryptic corp description. I also rented an office in a station that has cheap rent, so now I can sort my stuff in a corp hangar. I never used NPC corp chat, couldn't get past the inane jabbering and epeen waving types. I think a lot of players will view this as a newfound sense of freedom, I'm sorta interested in seeing how many new corps will be formed in the next couple of weeks. So far, I think I've created 2 or 3 corp for mission characters over the last days, with default logo, random names/tickers, and no description or offices. I'll still need to create a few more as I'm training up all my alts as R&D earners. If someone wardec's one of the corp, I'll just disband the corp and create another one, and continue like before (if I actually need the character while wardec'd). The money it costs to create a corp is essentially earned back in tax savings by running a single average L4 mission.... The only one(s) losing out are the noobs I used to help.... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Torothin Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.12.03 16:57:00 - [17] Missions cause people to quit the game. Those that come in do nothing but mission for 8 months and then the paleyr thinks missioning is what this game is all about and finds it boring. Mind you they have not gotten into the player interaction aspect at all in those 8 months. They leave the game and look down at eve. Stop running missions all the time is what CCP is aiming for and is empasizing more on the player/corp interaciton of the game. When you join a good corp is when the game really starts.
Killmeded	Posted - 2009.12.03 17:47:00 - [18] I added up over a mil in npc tax of lost isk in my wallet -- I made me a corp till I can find one I like or get more ppl in mine :) if I am paying taxes its gonna go to support my corp not just into thin air >.<
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2009.12.03 17:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Torothin ________ cause people to quit the game. Those that come in do nothing but ________ for 8 months and then the paleyr thinks ________ is what this game is all about and finds it boring. Mind you they have not gotten into the player interaction aspect at all in those 8 months. They leave the game and look down at eve. Stop doing ________ all the time is what CCP is aiming for and is empasizing more on the player/corp interaciton of the game. When you join a good corp is when the game really starts. Hey I fixed your post for you. Just replace ________ with any non-PvP activity. Anything in this game gets old if it's the only thing you do. Hell I did PvP in 0.0 for a year and I can't think of anything I'd rather not do more after sitting on gates for hours day after day just.. waiting. Missioning actually provides a lot of different things to do and can be quite interesting. Combat missions, couriers, salvaging/looting, hauling and trading all for starters, and everything except for running the mission itself does involve player interaction. But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Torothin Foundation Sons of Tangra	Posted - 2009.12.03 19:27:00 - [20] sounds like you never went roaming. The fact is alot of clients just run missions and grow bored with the game. I know of 3 people in real life that this happened to. I wonder what the graphs would look like if CCP implemented a survey to previous customers.

Kaylee Juuna	Posted - 2009.12.03 22:30:00 - [21] 1) Yes, it does single out missioners. High sec, NPC corp missioners. 2) No, it does not make player corps 'more appealing', it makes NPC corps less appealing. If CCP really did think that it's fine to be in an NPC corp, they would've made player corps better, not NPC corps worse. Also, lol at people who say 'more carebear tears'. I wish I was as cool as you, acting tough on the internet and all.
Daemonspirit Redhawk Tribal Trust	Posted - 2009.12.04 01:28:00 - [22] Edited by: Daemonspirit on 04/12/2009 01:28:28 Said it before, say it again. The people who want to be in player corps, are there. This will not suddenly, magically, make people want to joing these corps. For the people who do not wish to be in player corps, nothing has changed to make them more interesting. It will just encourage the proliferation of one man Corps... Originally by: Kerfira If someone wardec's one of the corp, I'll just disband the corp and create another one, and continue like before (if I actually need the character while wardec'd) Just a heads up m8, closing the corp is an exploit. LEAVING the corp (and having the corp remain in existance behind you) is legal. DO NOT CLOSE THE CORP BEHIND YOU! Leave it up, so that the wardec remains in place. Spelling edit. ôEveryone has a right to be stupid; some people just abuse the privilege.ö
Dacryphile	Posted - 2009.12.04 02:26:00 - [23] Originally by: Daemonspirit The people who want to be in player corps, are there. This will not suddenly, magically, make people want to joing these corps. For the people who do not wish to be in player corps, nothing has changed to make them more interesting. It will just encourage the proliferation of one man Corps... Just quoting for truth. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Randomina Randomona	Posted - 2009.12.04 03:20:00 - [24] The NPC tax is a good idea (though i believe its a little low) it will encourage newer players to join a corp and play this MMO as it is meant to be played, with other people. It will also give some urging to older players in NPC corps to try out what player corps are like too. Im with CCP on this one.
Empire Dweller	Posted - 2009.12.04 04:20:00 - [25] Originally by: Randomina Randomona The NPC tax is a good idea (though i believe its a little low) it will encourage newer players to join a corp and play this MMO as it is meant to be played, with other people. It will also give some urging to older players in NPC corps to try out what player corps are like too. Im with CCP on this one. I agree- ppl should only play eve in the way the developers intended it to be played. So what we need is for ccp to email everyone in an npc corp and tell them their subscription money isnt wanted. Or maybe, just maybe, we could let ppl play eve however they want? And not punish those who play in ways we disagree with. Perhaps we could even call it a sandbox?
Joel McBeth Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.04 04:22:00 - [26] Originally by: Miyamoto Uroki Risk vs reward, my friend, that's the key here. You don't want the 11% tax? It's simple really. create your own corp, leave tax at 0% and off you go. BUT, of course that leaves you vulvernable to war decs. So it's your choice really, no need to complain about it. Both choices have benefits and risks. There really is no extra risk in creating your own corp. If you get wardeced, just leave the corp and create another. The guy before is right. It is just a way to penalize people who don't want to be forced into PvP, in a game they pay to play the way they want to. I liked to chat and help newbies in STI, but I quit and made my own corp to avoid the 11% tax. I've been wardeced before, quit to a pub corp at exactly zero additional risk. If their goal was to get more people into player corps, and not to encourage people to get into involuntary PvP they could have made more of an incentive to join player corps (more than there already is) instead of penalizing NPC corps.
Karina Vostov	Posted - 2009.12.04 05:15:00 - [27] Originally by: K'uata Sayus Edited by: K''uata Sayus on 03/12/2009 15:06:11 Edited by: K''uata Sayus on 03/12/2009 15:05:20 The tax encouraged me to form a 1-man player corp with a cool logo, clever corp ticker, and cryptic corp description. I also rented an office in a station that has cheap rent, so now I can sort my stuff in a corp hangar. I never used NPC corp chat, couldn't get past the inane jabbering and epeen waving types. I think a lot of players will view this as a newfound sense of freedom, I'm sorta interested in seeing how many new corps will be formed in the next couple of weeks. ^^ This.
Kanatta Jing	Posted - 2009.12.04 05:19:00 - [28] It's a way to try to get people to play together instead of hanging out by themselves. All MMO's eventually try to make you be sociable against your will because they are evil and don't want you to have any fun.
S'Sturak	Posted - 2009.12.04 05:30:00 - [29] I agree that they're doing it the wrong way. Don't penalize you for being in an NPC corp. Give you more incentive to be in a player corp. I just made a one man corp today to avoid the tax. It's a noticeable chunk of my income going down the toilet. I want to join a player corp to have people to work with. People to chat to, to mission with, to explore with. I'm still taking my time finding the right corp to join. As it is now, you're going to have a ton of people in one man corps just avoiding the tax. That's not helping player corps grow. It's just annoying people.
Trigos Trilobi Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.12.04 05:45:00 - [30] Originally by: Empire Dweller Or maybe, just maybe, we could let ppl play eve however they want? And not punish those who play in ways we disagree with. Perhaps we could even call it a sandbox? I don't think you quite grasp the concept of a sandbox.



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