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Archon Vs Chimeria - TRIAGE Carrier

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7g Creator	Posted - 2009.12.04 03:14:00 - [1] It seems to me that the archon does a HELL of alot better as a Triage Carrier then the Chimera, better tank and better repping abilities. I have Caldari BS 5 already but I'm planning on training Amarr BS 5 for the Archon unless someone can give me a good reason to fly a Freaking Chimera...anyone got any idea how to make this ship Viable??? With the Chimera CPU is a BIG issue and you either have ot sacrifice tank or repping power. In order to get agood tank I have to drop the chimera down to 1 Sheild rep and 1 cap transfer. Anyone got a fit that makes this Piece Of S... ship worht training for?
Trustworthy Joe Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.04 03:31:00 - [2] uhh, archon sucks for triage, mainly because it has no remote shield reppers. thats what makes the chimera such a great carrier. archon is a bonus for you, chimera is a bonus for corp/alliance want a sig? thats great! post it in response to my posts!
Alty McAltyalt	Posted - 2009.12.04 03:37:00 - [3] If you're using a triage carrier to support BS gangs, the Archon can't be beat.
7g Creator	Posted - 2009.12.04 03:46:00 - [4] Archon tank beats the chimera big time and to support BS it seems to kick ass...so whats the chimera good for??? Repping the cyno jammer?
Johndalar	Posted - 2009.12.04 05:02:00 - [5] A little off topic but I think its is sad that Archon beats the Niddy at the thing it is MADE for with its RR bonus..... CCP made a ship with no reason or purpose for anyone to train up and fly it. Sorry for the little rant.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2009.12.04 05:50:00 - [6] Originally by: 7g Creator Archon tank beats the chimera big time and to support BS it seems to kick ass...so whats the chimera good for??? Repping the cyno jammer? P.S. A good tank on a Archon can still fit 3 Remote reps and 1 cap transfer, a good tank on a chimera can fit 1 shield transfer and 1 cap xfer Actually the chimera is pretty good apart from the fact that it could use a little more CPU. You can make a triage chimera work with 2x shield and 1x cap transfer but it takes some effort to fit.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.04 06:22:00 - [7] Originally by: Trustworthy Joe uhh, archon sucks for triage, mainly because it has no remote shield reppers. thats what makes the chimera such a great carrier. archon is a bonus for you, chimera is a bonus for corp/alliance Joe turns out to be not so trustworthy. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
7g Creator	Posted - 2009.12.04 11:31:00 - [8] I can get 2 shield transporters and a decent tank to fit with a +3% CPU upgrade. However, the archon can still run more reppers for longer b/c the chimera will cap out.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2009.12.04 12:28:00 - [9] Originally by: 7g Creator I can get 2 shield transporters and a decent tank to fit with a +3% CPU upgrade. However, the archon can still run more reppers for longer b/c the chimera will cap out. then you're not doing it right: [Chimera, Triage] True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay Capital Shield Booster I Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Shield Transporter I Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
7g Creator	Posted - 2009.12.04 12:43:00 - [10] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: 7g Creator I can get 2 shield transporters and a decent tank to fit with a +3% CPU upgrade. However, the archon can still run more reppers for longer b/c the chimera will cap out. then you're not doing it right: [Chimera, Triage] True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay Capital Shield Booster I Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Shield Transporter I Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I OMG this is a great TRIAGE Carrier fit...I would just change one thing...PUT A TRIAGE MODULE ON IT.
fkingfurious	Posted - 2009.12.04 12:45:00 - [11] Edited by: fkingfurious on 04/12/2009 12:46:34
mille soli	Posted - 2009.12.04 12:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: 7g Creator I can get 2 shield transporters and a decent tank to fit with a +3% CPU upgrade. However, the archon can still run more reppers for longer b/c the chimera will cap out. then you're not doing it right: [Chimera, Triage] True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay Capital Shield Booster I Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Shield Transporter I Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I you forgot the whole point of the thread
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:14:00 - [13] Originally by: 7g Creator edit: Seriously, Power Relays on the ship? Isnt this counter productive b/c it reduces the amount of Shield boost. On top of that I would drop one of the invulns for an extra shield booster. You think your local tank means anything? If you get into a situation where you're relying on your local tank, then the chances are that your local tank is irrelevant. Carriers are logistics ships, they need cap to perform their role and quad CPR is a standard fit for a Chimera. Although, yes, a triage mod would kinda help when attempting to enter Triage. It's not just the Chimera either. Both the Nidhoggur and Thanatos get oodles more RRing power with CPR fits and shield tanks... not sure how the Archon fits in here though.
7g Creator	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:26:00 - [14] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: 7g Creator edit: Seriously, Power Relays on the ship? Isnt this counter productive b/c it reduces the amount of Shield boost. On top of that I would drop one of the invulns for an extra shield booster. You think your local tank means anything? If you get into a situation where you're relying on your local tank, then the chances are that your local tank is irrelevant. Carriers are logistics ships, they need cap to perform their role and quad CPR is a standard fit for a Chimera. Although, yes, a triage mod would kinda help when attempting to enter Triage. It's not just the Chimera either. Both the Nidhoggur and Thanatos get oodles more RRing power with CPR fits and shield tanks... not sure how the Archon fits in here though. Local tank doesnt matter? Sure if your in a large cap engagement and you get primaried forget about it but small scale support for BSs or in a smaller engagment...I've seen an Archon tank 10+ dreads without any help.
Kazang Gallente Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:33:00 - [15] Originally by: 7g Creator Edited by: 7g Creator on 04/12/2009 12:47:05 Originally by: Sokratesz Originally by: 7g Creator I can get 2 shield transporters and a decent tank to fit with a +3% CPU upgrade. However, the archon can still run more reppers for longer b/c the chimera will cap out. then you're not doing it right: [Chimera, Triage] True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay Capital Shield Booster I Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Shield Transporter I Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I OMG this is a great TRIAGE Carrier fit...I would just change one thing...PUT A TRIAGE MODULE ON IT. Whos not doing it right? edit: Seriously, Power Relays on the ship? Isnt this counter productive b/c it reduces the amount of Shield boost. On top of that I would drop one of the invulns for an extra shield booster. Rofl sok, kinda owned yourself there. Kazang
mille soli	Posted - 2009.12.04 13:44:00 - [16] Originally by: Gypsio III Originally by: 7g Creator edit: Seriously, Power Relays on the ship? Isnt this counter productive b/c it reduces the amount of Shield boost. On top of that I would drop one of the invulns for an extra shield booster. You think your local tank means anything? If you get into a situation where you're relying on your local tank, then the chances are that your local tank is irrelevant. Carriers are logistics ships, they need cap to perform their role and quad CPR is a standard fit for a Chimera. Although, yes, a triage mod would kinda help when attempting to enter Triage. It's not just the Chimera either. Both the Nidhoggur and Thanatos get oodles more RRing power with CPR fits and shield tanks... not sure how the Archon fits in here though. rooks and kings would like to have a word with you
Lacolo Basema Kotar Engineering	Posted - 2009.12.04 14:32:00 - [17] The underlying problem is the CPU use of Shield RR modules, not the Chimera's CPU. This also means Shield RR BS gangs are harder to fit, and then you see less of them, which in turn means less reason to get a Triage Chimera.
Crackzilla The Shadow Order	Posted - 2009.12.04 14:33:00 - [18] Edited by: Crackzilla on 04/12/2009 14:33:41 Originally by: 7g Creator edit: Seriously, Power Relays on the ship? Isnt this counter productive b/c it reduces the amount of Shield boost. 1x Shield amp reverses most of the cpr effects. With the extra cap you can perma run the booster. The cap difference is enough that it is almost worth shield tanking thanatos & nid and putting cprs in all the lows. Enough cap to support not just 2x shield transfers but 3x or 4x transfers. Local tank suffers a bit but when the entire fleet doubles the effective repping ability I don't think it matters much. Originally by: 7g Creator I've seen an Archon tank 10+ dreads without any help. A carrier just has to move to tank a dread in siege. I think the speed tank was more at work here than the local tank.
7g Creator	Posted - 2009.12.04 14:41:00 - [19] Originally by: Crackzilla A carrier just has to move to tank a dread in siege. I think the speed tank was more at work here than the local tank. The Archon was in triage so it wasnt speed tanking em.
Gypsio III Dirty Filthy Perverts	Posted - 2009.12.04 15:04:00 - [20] Originally by: mille soli Both the Nidhoggur and Thanatos get oodles more RRing power with CPR fits and shield tanks... not sure how the Archon fits in here though. rooks and kings would like to have a word with you Rooks and Kings armour-tank their Archons.
Sokratesz	Posted - 2009.12.04 16:18:00 - [21] Edited by: Sokratesz on 04/12/2009 16:19:44 hahahaha oh wow Posting in a hurry FTL: [Chimera, Triage] True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay True Sansha Capacitor Power Relay Capital Shield Booster I Shield Boost Amplifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Capital Shield Transporter I Capital Shield Transporter I Ammatar Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I Triage Module I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Even after the CPR's this has a tank that rivals archons in triage - only you can run it longer because it has ****tons of cap.
Cambarus The Baros Syndicate	Posted - 2009.12.04 17:47:00 - [22] Originally by: 7g Creator Originally by: Crackzilla A carrier just has to move to tank a dread in siege. I think the speed tank was more at work here than the local tank. The Archon was in triage so it wasnt speed tanking em. Then it wasn't being shot at by 10+ dreads. Period. I have skills that I'd argue are a minimum when flying a dread (gal dread IV, cap hybrids IV etc) and I get ~3.2k DPS while in siege. Assuming I more or less match the average dread pilot out there for dps(not as good as the maxed out rev pilots but better than the low SP phoenix pilots) we can say that 10 dreads would be putting out somewhere in the realm of 32k DPS. An archon, with perfect skills, triage mod, 2 cap reppers, 3 faction EANMs(this is aiming for max tank not sustainability to further prove my point) and a damage control tanks 22k dps for about 5 minutes before capping out. Not that it would last that long, with about 1.5million ehp (this is rounded up btw) it would last 150 seconds (so roughly 2 and a half minutes) under the 10,000DPS that its local tank would not be negating from the 10 dreads. And that's with t2 CCCs, and faction EANMs (faction hardeners offer the same performance if overheated, otherwise the eanms are better) Speaking of overheating, did I mention that those tank numbers are with overheated tanking mods, but not overheated dread guns? So yeh, if you got a friend who's been telling you about how he tanked 10 dreads while taking full damage because he was in triage, he's lying
Eseay	Posted - 2009.12.04 20:39:00 - [23] Originally by: Cambarus Originally by: 7g Creator Originally by: Crackzilla A carrier just has to move to tank a dread in siege. I think the speed tank was more at work here than the local tank. The Archon was in triage so it wasnt speed tanking em. Then it wasn't being shot at by 10+ dreads. Period. I have skills that I'd argue are a minimum when flying a dread (gal dread IV, cap hybrids IV etc) and I get ~3.2k DPS while in siege. Assuming I more or less match the average dread pilot out there for dps(not as good as the maxed out rev pilots but better than the low SP phoenix pilots) we can say that 10 dreads would be putting out somewhere in the realm of 32k DPS. An archon, with perfect skills, triage mod, 2 cap reppers, 3 faction EANMs(this is aiming for max tank not sustainability to further prove my point) and a damage control tanks 22k dps for about 5 minutes before capping out. Not that it would last that long, with about 1.5million ehp (this is rounded up btw) it would last 150 seconds (so roughly 2 and a half minutes) under the 10,000DPS that its local tank would not be negating from the 10 dreads. And that's with t2 CCCs, and faction EANMs (faction hardeners offer the same performance if overheated, otherwise the eanms are better) Speaking of overheating, did I mention that those tank numbers are with overheated tanking mods, but not overheated dread guns? So yeh, if you got a friend who's been telling you about how he tanked 10 dreads while taking full damage because he was in triage, he's lying it was frapsed m8
Rob Rockport	Posted - 2009.12.04 20:49:00 - [24] Originally by: Eseay it was frapsed m8 Then the dreads weren't in siege mode. A carrier (Triage or not) cannot tank 10 dreads in siege mode.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.12.04 20:58:00 - [25] Maybe dreads were shooted at too? With every dread down its -3k+ dps...
ropnes	Posted - 2009.12.04 21:09:00 - [26] Dreads were being neuted heavily
Sokratesz	Posted - 2009.12.04 21:32:00 - [27] In that R&K video the 10 dreads weren't shooting the carrier all at once, many were capped out and the carrier was barely holding. Great video tho.
Daemon Lucifus Amarr T-Wrecks Cult of War	Posted - 2009.12.04 22:41:00 - [28] this is a real solid setup for the archon if your going to have a carrier pimp it out this is the setup i use hope it helps [Archon, Sit On My Face] Capital Armor Repairer I Capital Armor Repairer I Corpum C-Type Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Corpus C-Type Armor Kinetic Hardener Damage Control II Selynne's Modified Armor Explosive Hardener Corpus C-Type Armor Thermic Hardener Shadow Serpentis Sensor Booster, Scan Resolution Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer True Sansha Heavy Energy Neutralizer Amarr Navy Large EMP Smartbomb Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I
Alty McAltyalt	Posted - 2009.12.05 01:24:00 - [29] [Archon, Clarion Call] Capital Armor Repairer I Capital Armor Repairer I Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Damage Control II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Capacitor Power Relay II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Triage Module I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Remote Armor Repair System I Capital Energy Transfer Array I Large EMP Smartbomb II Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I For supporting 20~ BS as single Triage carrier, with Damnation support.
SighKnow WhoAre	Posted - 2009.12.05 02:20:00 - [30] This thread is dumb. Are you really trying to compare Archon and Chimera in triage? When was the last time you compared Guardian vs Basilisk? They are completely different. I agree the Archon is easier to fit then the Chimera but if you are dropping to support a shield rep gang who cares? What you are dropping on to rep determines entirely whether "the archon does a HELL of alot better as a Triage Carrier then the Chimera."

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