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Dominion is a huge fail... Alliances punished and now taxed for sov

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Scam Watcher	Posted - 2009.12.05 08:31:00 - [31] Originally by: Doom Viper Help me understand this.... Alliances pre dominion... Could hold sov in an entire constellation.. Paid zero isk to ccp for that priveledge except for POS fuel and related expenses. Post dominion ccp feels that the new direction of the game is a new alliance tax on holding sov that is approx 180m / month per system in which the alliances wants official sov. How the hell did we allow ccp to add this massive isk sink to the game when we are taking all the risk? Where is this isk going (for role play purposes)? Not to concord cuz they don't operate in 0.0. We own our own space? Not post dominion. Now all alliances rent there space from CCP? Seriously.... I love this game but we are taking it in the rear. Ccp have destroyed the entire purpose of 0.0 alliance warfare mechanism... Fight for your space and then you own / control it. Now what is the benefit... We fight to pay ccp for what we once owned without the penalty. tl;dr. Alliances no longer own their space and now we are all renters. 0.0 is nerfed and now it's capture the flag ( the hubs serve no RP purpose ) It's called an ISK sink, and this game was lacking one. Now the game will be lacking a crybaby like you, I'm not so sure I'll miss the latter.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.05 08:52:00 - [32] Originally by: Scrym DOOM VIPER!!!!!!!!! sounds a lot tougher than I think you really are. It's always the way. The more aggressive and ominous the character name, the bigger the carebear playing it.
Kassidus Gallente Rage For Order Systematic-Chaos	Posted - 2009.12.05 08:58:00 - [33] Regardless of wether you feel this system is good or not, its here and thats just how it is, I beleive for the most part CCP does a pretty good job at making good changes even if they seem a little off at first to some, but any "mistakes" they have made they have fixed. So i suggest you relaxe play the game see how it all plays out, you might like it.
Hrodgar Ortal Minmatar Ma'adim Logistics	Posted - 2009.12.05 09:12:00 - [34] Originally by: Alezander Jagen Despite the new mechanics (which might be a little too lenient) the influence map is showing that many alliances aren't downsizing their territory. Nothing has changed yet since sov holders got 7 days in which sov won't change. It will probably take a couple of weeks before any changes can be seen.
Ocih Amarr Clan Shadow Wolf Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.05 10:15:00 - [35] To some degree I agree with you. Militia in null sec. It seems corny that null sec is now a billionaires game. Very not EvE. It is something I have seen this game try and do for a long time though. Use the in game currency to staple us to smaller areas. 2.2 billion ISK per system a month means an active corp of 50 need to dedicate alot of time to 'thier' system to make this work. Camp a system. One of the biggest hit aspects of this will be the jump bridge networks we took for granted, up untill a few days ago. Ours has be turned upside down and has shrunk considerably.
BhallSpawn	Posted - 2009.12.05 10:25:00 - [36] I agree with OP 0.0 is no mans land now your paying a rental fee? lol Why doesn't concord come out to collect if they want their money so bad. It's a stupid decision as far as story goes.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.05 10:51:00 - [37] Confirming sov change tears are both nummy and delicious, OP plz cry moar.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2009.12.05 10:56:00 - [38] Originally by: Alezander Jagen Despite the new mechanics (which might be a little too lenient) the influence map is showing that many alliances aren't downsizing their territory. Wait until next Tuesday, when the old sov system switches off --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Spoon Thumb Paladin Imperium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.05 11:12:00 - [39] It's more the "why should my car stop working if I don't pay road tax" argument You don't get any benefits from paying concord for official recognition except for being 'allowed' to do things that you should be able to anyway.
Glengrant TOHA Heavy Industries	Posted - 2009.12.05 15:37:00 - [40] Originally by: Doom Viper Help me understand this.... Alliances pre dominion... Could hold sov in an entire constellation.. Paid zero isk to ccp for that priveledge except for POS fuel and related expenses. Post dominion ccp feels that the new direction of the game is a new alliance tax on holding sov that is approx 180m / month per system in which the alliances wants official sov. 1: POS + POS fuel is not free. So alliances paid before Dominion and they pay after Dominion. And the logistics to fuel the damn things also take time which involves the opportunity cost of not making money while you aquire and ship fuel.. And let's not forget that people hate the the whole POS spam. 2: Infrastructure upgrades increase the money making potential. 3: Making alliances reconsider how much underused systems are actually worth to them is a good thing. Dominion is likely to be a massive improvement overall. Adapt or ... --- Save the forum: Think before you post. ISK BUYER = LOSER EVE TV- Bring it back! Laptop, NVidia7900GS, Ubuntu 8.04, WINE

Lyyraia	Posted - 2009.12.05 15:44:00 - [41] Originally by: Junko Togawa Confirming sov change tears are both nummy and delicious, OP plz cry moar. this.
Swiftgaze	Posted - 2009.12.05 15:49:00 - [42] Originally by: BhallSpawn I agree with OP 0.0 is no mans land now your paying a rental fee? lol Why doesn't concord come out to collect if they want their money so bad. It's a stupid decision as far as story goes. This
iP0D	Posted - 2009.12.05 15:58:00 - [43] I've got to agree that the licences just do not make any sense whatsoever for both immersion, lore and storylines. Heck, the gates in 0.0 weren't built by Concord or the DED to start with Not to mention the whole concept of going to lawless space away from the shackles of the empires and their institutions, and then in lawless space paying tax But the real issue is not that the people already out there have to pay taxes suddenly, or that they have to make more effort, or the delusion that the extra costs actually make a difference. The real issue is that for both established organisations and new ones trying to go out there the only thing you get for making the effort is an invoice. Just think about it from all points of view for a moment. Regardless of established alliance or new kids on the block, the potential of upgrading space is a big investment which pays less at more risk and considerable more effort than any activity in empire for both pilots and organisations. The sole exception being moons, and those are not shaken up at all, remaining under an increasing grip of those already out there. The moons remain the item which enables the existing groups to consolidate and tighten their grips even further, without them having to bother with upgrading space at all. Granted, Dominion is no Exodus. But it is a failed expansion for the ideas and goals CCP presented at the fanfest. It reinforces the status quo. On every level. From epic via small/medium lack of prey to simple and mondane making of isk and getting stuff.
slorai	Posted - 2009.12.05 16:18:00 - [44] rather than crying why not use your head and look at the actual solutions, the space needs to be used to improve it, nobody ever said you have to be the ones using it. look at what cva have been doing since...er...forever... tbh they have it made right now. alliances can take that approach although unlikly, or it will lead to more well rounded alliances. tbh thats not a bad thing. as for the isk sink, the overall isk making ability of a system will massivly outweigh the fees your paying for it. and for the few unappreciated players that spend all their time looking after pos' they can go and play the game again.
Spurty Caldari Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.05 16:52:00 - [45] Confirming that spacing holding alliances will never use a POS ever again. Clearly balance is lacking. And as someone already mentioned, WAIT until the old sov system is turned off, its still running so the transition is exactly that,a transition and not a ham fisted fuster cluck. CCP, next patch, NPC corp tax 50% if there is more than 20% of subscribers still in NPC corps please. Originally by: Hurley I WAS NOT QUITTING SoT AND WAS NOT THINKING ABOUT JOINING IT. PL/SoT MADE A MISTAKE AND ARE NOT MAN ENOUGH TO ADMIT IT OR FIX IT.
Jarik Utoni Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.05 17:23:00 - [46] Originally by: Troll Bridgington Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Gun Gal again, I laugh at you and fart in your general direction! Confirming that their mothers smell of elderberries. And their fathers are hamsters that's "Your Mother was a Hamster and your Father smelt of Elderberries!" you guys got it backwards ---- -Jarik Utoni, Cov Ops Pilot (in training) d(^.^)b
Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc. Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2009.12.05 18:08:00 - [47] Originally by: Doom Viper Originally by: Letrange So what you're saying is you LIKED tower spam? no, of course not, but this does not negate the need for POS's for jump bridge and cyno networks. WE are trading what we owned and fought for, to now being a renter in our own space. Instead of promoting pvp, they are inhibiting it because alliances will need to carebear their asses off to pay the rent... the 'upgrades' are a novelty... we should have had these type of bonuses in 0.0 anyway due to the whole risk/reward thing. Individuals can make way more isk free from any type of risk doing Level 4 missions... huge trade off in isk for what we already had. So you are saying that the alliances did not need to carebear it up with all those ice mining, hauling, cov ops alts/members? Slade Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Please go sit in the corner, and dont forget to don the shame-on-you-hat! ≡v≡
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.05 18:09:00 - [48] Originally by: Jarik Utoni Originally by: Troll Bridgington Originally by: Professor Tarantula Originally by: Gun Gal again, I laugh at you and fart in your general direction! Confirming that their mothers smell of elderberries. And their fathers are hamsters that's "Your Mother was a Hamster and your Father smelt of Elderberries!" you guys got it backwards No, it's just that in a slightly modern twist, both were cross dressers as well – confuses the onlookers, you know… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
Mrs Snowman	Posted - 2009.12.05 18:13:00 - [49] This may seem like just spam, but its not, it reflects my true opinion: LOL
Jarik Utoni Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.05 18:20:00 - [50] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Jarik Utoni that's "Your Mother was a Hamster and your Father smelt of Elderberries!" you guys got it backwards No, it's just that in a slightly modern twist, both were cross dressers as well û confuses the onlookers, you knowà Silly English knnnnnigits! ---- -Jarik Utoni, Cov Ops Pilot (in training) d(^.^)b

Don Pellegrino Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.12.05 18:52:00 - [51] "Huge fail"? lol? Look at the new soverignty and see how many alliances there's in 0.0, now. Damn, there's dozens of new alliances in 0.0, they're hard to see on the map (they don't show on a Tile if they don't own a full constellation) but there's a lot of new blood. Therefore, I don't consider Dominion to be a huge fail. In fact, your inability to correctly read the map makes you the one and only failure in this thread.
Jarik Utoni Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.05 19:00:00 - [52] Originally by: Don Pellegrino "Huge fail"? lol? Look at the new soverignty and see how many alliances there's in 0.0, now. Damn, there's dozens of new alliances in 0.0, they're hard to see on the map (they don't show on a Tile if they don't own a full constellation) but there's a lot of new blood. Therefore, I don't consider Dominion to be a huge fail. In fact, your inability to correctly read the map makes you the one and only failure in this thread. i believe thios makes Dominion a huge Success ---- -Jarik Utoni, Cov Ops Pilot (in training) d(^.^)b
Hruhd Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.05 19:20:00 - [53] Edited by: Hruhd on 05/12/2009 19:21:10 Doom Viper, right, you're a Amarr, but now accept the fact: now you need to pay to the workers operating the stargates, no more slaves! Do not be surprised with the changes, it has been announced for a long time in the dev blogs it's too late to complain about. This is not a nerf, I loved it. For the times, they aaare a-chaaangin!
Esus Ionhar Revolutionary United Front Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.12.05 19:42:00 - [54] Is it really that hard RP wise? I mean, could the money, possibly, just possibly, be used for the upkeep and running costs of say...the hub and the claim unit?
Verx Interis Amarr Viziam	Posted - 2009.12.05 22:11:00 - [55] How about "It costs **ing money to maintain these structures (whatever they're called) and the stargates but we have someone else who can do all the boring ** for you, just give us the money and we'll do it." Does that make sense? ---- Logins required for this post: 19186
Neddy Fox Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.12.05 22:17:00 - [56] OP fails. If you're looking for RP reasons to balance the game you're an utter idiot. This GAME needed balancing, and that has been done in a way mostplayers agreed upon. Live with it or give me your stuff. And post with your main, or reveal alliance.. ----
4 Hire	Posted - 2009.12.05 22:32:00 - [57] I can sum all this up pretty easily: The barriers to entry 0.0 were too high for the average player to live there and exp the same things that the 0.0 alliances have. 0.0 alliances hold massive quantity of space that is neither used nor is able to be used by their numbers. These changes require alliances to actually USE their space not just flex their e-peens with the threat of huge fleets for anyone trying to enter 0.0. You can still hold you ****ed amounts of space but its going to cost you. Rather take only the systems you need to manage your operations.** Holding space for the sake of prevent others from having it is what they were trying to stop. If you want to hold all that space you need to make it either cost efficient or eat the cost as part of strategy. Carebear is part of the game and a vital and essential part at that. Its what will help you pay for your alliance and their costs. Only a few of those super rare moons will pay for several several systems and the old t2 bpos are still out and about for isk thievery! So don't cry too much your paying to put your name on the map. If you dont want to then dont. Remember take only what you need and leave the rest for others... they will move in and you will have more people to pew pew which is what you all wanted was more people to cut the con"cord" and move to 0.0 so stop whining
Ebanni Ebanni Mercantile	Posted - 2009.12.05 22:35:00 - [58] Originally by: Doom Viper How the hell did we allow ccp to add this massive isk sink to the game when we are taking all the risk? You, me and the next guy don't "allow" CCP to do anything. They allow us to play their game in exchange for a monthly fee. Cool, huh? Or don't allow yourself to play. Your call.
Aimel Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.05 22:37:00 - [59] Exactly, there was too much isk comming out from no where (missions bounty), the game needed more isk sink. Originally by: Scam Watcher Originally by: Doom Viper Help me understand this.... Alliances pre dominion... Could hold sov in an entire constellation.. Paid zero isk to ccp for that priveledge except for POS fuel and related expenses. Post dominion ccp feels that the new direction of the game is a new alliance tax on holding sov that is approx 180m / month per system in which the alliances wants official sov. How the hell did we allow ccp to add this massive isk sink to the game when we are taking all the risk? Where is this isk going (for role play purposes)? Not to concord cuz they don't operate in 0.0. We own our own space? Not post dominion. Now all alliances rent there space from CCP? Seriously.... I love this game but we are taking it in the rear. Ccp have destroyed the entire purpose of 0.0 alliance warfare mechanism... Fight for your space and then you own / control it. Now what is the benefit... We fight to pay ccp for what we once owned without the penalty. tl;dr. Alliances no longer own their space and now we are all renters. 0.0 is nerfed and now it's capture the flag ( the hubs serve no RP purpose ) It's called an ISK sink, and this game was lacking one. Now the game will be lacking a crybaby like you, I'm not so sure I'll miss the latter.
SomebodyKickedMyDog	Posted - 2009.12.05 22:38:00 - [60] who cares, it's 0.0. no one goes there anyway.



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