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Mr Xanatos
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:14:00 -
[1]
I recently just finished T2 Torps and T2 HAM's
Spent the last few days testing them with my Corp mates and they consistently deliver less damage than T1 ammo.
Did I miss something, was there a nerf, have they always been like this? On paper they have better damage stats.
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Thenoran
Caldari Pelican.
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:22:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Thenoran on 06/12/2009 01:22:25 T2 HAMs do considerably more damage on targets that arent moving to fast. Compared to faction ammo, T2 HAMs will probably do less well on frigates or fast cruisers, but considerably better against webbed cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships. T2 ammo is a lot cheaper than faction as well. Can't say about torps but I think the same applies. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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Pater Peccavi
Minmatar The Bastards
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:24:00 -
[3]
T2 missiles are specialized, same with all T2 ammo. The explosion radius of the T2 high damage missile is much bigger than that of the Caldari Navy version, so you'll see a drop in damage against similar sized ships. _________
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Dirk Magnum
Royal Hiigaran Navy Maru Ka'ge
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:24:00 -
[4]
Consider the explosion and damage stats. Precision torps deal less base damage and damage torps have a slow explosion velocity so it'll only deliver more damage against larger and/or slower targets than the T1 torps.
That's sort of the long and short of it. Each T2 torp type (and this applies to missiles generally) has a situation where it'll be better than T1 at damage delivery, but for general use you should use faction T1 if more damage against familiar target types is what you want.
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Mr Xanatos
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:27:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Thenoran Edited by: Thenoran on 06/12/2009 01:22:25 T2 HAMs do considerably more damage on targets that arent moving to fast. Compared to faction ammo, T2 HAMs will probably do less well on frigates or fast cruisers, but considerably better against webbed cruisers, battlecruisers and battleships. Can't say about torps but I think the same applies.
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Vhiskey
Caldari Imperial Forces
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Posted - 2009.12.06 01:47:00 -
[6]
specs to IV already?
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Mr Xanatos
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Posted - 2009.12.06 02:03:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Vhiskey specs to IV already?
That shouldnt matter. Spec 4 only increase ROF so the outcome will be the same. T1 will still do more damage, I'll just be shooting faster. |
Fifi LeFume
No Trademark
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Posted - 2009.12.06 02:16:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Mr Xanatos
Originally by: Vhiskey specs to IV already?
Spec 4 only increase ROF so the outcome will be the same. T1 will still do more damage, I'll just be shooting faster.
LOLOLOL.
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Cambarus
The Baros Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.06 03:34:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Fifi LeFume
Originally by: Mr Xanatos
Originally by: Vhiskey specs to IV already?
Spec 4 only increase ROF so the outcome will be the same. T1 will still do more damage, I'll just be shooting faster.
LOLOLOL.
Note that he's comparing AMMO, not the launchers themselves. So 2% ROF for t2 missiles is also 2% ROF for t1/faction...
Anyway, which missiles are you using on which launchers? Remember that there's a high-damage t2 missile and either a long range missile or a precision missile, so one of the 2 t2 variants of each missile type is designed with something other than raw damage in mind. |
Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.12.06 03:38:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Fifi LeFume
Originally by: Mr Xanatos
Originally by: Vhiskey specs to IV already?
Spec 4 only increase ROF so the outcome will be the same. T1 will still do more damage, I'll just be shooting faster.
LOLOLOL.
Typical of why ships and modules is the last place on the planet to look for legit advice.
Originally by: CCP Casqade The forum does not represent anywhere close to 90% of the users. In fact it represents a clear minority of them.
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Mr Xanatos
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Posted - 2009.12.06 04:05:00 -
[11]
No idea what just happened but ran some tests again with a friend, exact same test as before using my HAM's and the T2 are working better now.
Damage listed below is from firing each ammo type from a Drake at a Hurricane using Kinetic ammo. Damage listed is from 1 launcher:
T1 141.2 (100%)
Faction 162.8 (115.2%)
T2 180.8 (127.6%)
These numbers were achieved while he sat still and while he orbited.
The only thing that changed since the first test is that I trained Specialization to lvl 2 but this should not have an effect on damage. I have Torp Specialization trained to lvl 1 so I'll repeat the test using Torps then train Torp Specialization to lvl 2 and see if there is a damage difference. Maybe there's a bug or something.
I'll post results tomorrow. |
Harrison III
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.12.06 05:46:00 -
[12]
I've noticed the exact same issue. My Corp explained it to me.. it's a little over my head at this point but.. the explosion velocity of the rages and/or radius is less on the T2's. Apologies for not being specific enough here.
I've only found a couple of missions in which my t2 ammo out performs the faction ammo and as someone previous stated.. it works very well on slower 'moving' ships.
What EFT states for damage is raw damage and it's not taking into account the target. The long range t2 ammo is nice but the rages .. meh, not worth the hassle.
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Shadowsword
Epsilon Lyr Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.06 06:14:00 -
[13]
From Evewiki:
"Missiles are quite different from the turret weapons. When launched, a missile tracks its target and maneuvers to hit it. Every missile has a Velocity, Flight Time, and Agility rating. Velocity is how fast it moves, flight time is how long it can fly, and agility is how well it can adjust its heading to follow a target. Velocity multiplied flight time together make the effective range of the missile. If a missile flies at 1000 meters per second, and has a maximum flight time of 25 seconds, then its maximum range is 25,000 meters (25km). Agility is simply how well it stays on target. If a person can maneuver around the missile for long enough, it runs out of fuel and does nothing to them, so agility helps with faster targets. Pilots can also warp out of the area before a missile reaches them.
All missiles do a single damage type, but usually do a whole lot of it. So, you might have a missile that does a substantial amount of thermal damage, but that's it. You can also swap missiles in a launcher in the same way as swapping ammunition in a turret. Missile damage is calculated simply using a target's speed and signature radius. Each missile fired has a set amount of hitpoints and can be destroyed by using smartbombs or Defender Missiles. Because missiles must take time to travel to their targets, they generally have lower DPS ratings than their turret counterparts. However, what they lack in DPS can be made up in volley damage and the ability to choose your damage type.
Missiles are divided into guided and unguided types. While all missiles will hit their targets, unguided missiles do not benefit from the Guided Missile Precision skill. Unguided missiles also tend to have shorter ranges than their guided missile counterparts, but possess larger warheads, and do not have a Friend-or-Foe variant.
Most missiles also have Tech II versions. There are four main Tech II missile variants, which are available in four different damage types. All Tech II launchers can utilize two out of four Tech II, or "Advanced", missiles, depending on which missile class the launcher uses (eg: Light, Heavy Assault, Torpedoes, etc.). The four Tech II variants are:
* Advanced High Damage missiles ("Fury"): Guided missiles that deal higher damage at the expense of range. Due to their extremely volatile warheads, Fury missiles have powerful containment systems, which increases a ship's signature range when loaded. * Advanced Anti-Ship missiles ("Rage"): Unguided missiles that deal massive amounts of damage to targets larger than the launching ship, due to large explosion radii and low explosion velocities, as well as shorter range. These charges also increase a ships' signature range as they share warhead containment systems with their guided 'Fury' cousins. * Advanced High Precision missiles ("Precision"): Guided missiles that deal more damage to smaller targets. Unfortunately, they reduce a ship's velocity in order to obtain a better launch. * Advanced Long-Range missiles ("Javelin"): Unguided missiles that have more powerful thrusters and larger fuel tanks than conventional charges. This means that they carry smaller warheads than normal missiles, and also require a more stable launch platform - which means the ship must travel at a lower velocity.
Additionally, Tech II missiles are named after their Tech I counterpart and their Tech II group name (eg: "Fury"). They also have the same damage type. " ------------------------------------------
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Leather Jack
Kernite Commando
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Posted - 2009.12.06 06:36:00 -
[14]
TL;DR version:
T2 missiles has two different types. The high damage one and the the other useless one.
I assume you were shooting T2 Rage torps on that Phoon in order to hit it harder, no? T2 High damage missiles has a nieche role and get more raw damage vs bigger and slower targets than the T1 standard counterpart. But the target need to be bigger and slower, otherwise it might just be better with T1 torps. In order to do max damage a Rage torp needs to hit a target with a sig radius of 650, while a T1 torp gets max damage from 450 sig radius. If you hit something with less sig radius than the torp explosion radius, the damage will reduce.
TL;DR?
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Thenoran
Caldari Pelican.
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Posted - 2009.12.06 15:02:00 -
[15]
Keep in mind T2 ammo is a lot cheaper than faction ammo. I myself always use Rage HAMs on my Sacrilege, which has a webifier on it as well. I easily do 90-100% of my total damage on rats once they are webbed (Cruisers and above), even when taking in their resists. My volley can do about 1050 damage, and I often hit Sansha Cruisers with EM HAM Rage for 900+ damage. Destroyers die equally fast and Frigates don't do well either once they get within web range.
If there was ever a weapon system that shines with a webifier, HAM Rages are it. (Torps probably as well) Also note that a target painter and a web is even more evil against small targets. ------------------------ Low-sec is like sailing along the coast of Somalia...
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