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War Dec reform

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Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 16:59:00 - [1] Edited by: Spacemanc on 08/12/2009 16:59:27 Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Eve have for six years been all about PvP Originally by: Shade Millith You pay 11% corp tax for immunity to Wardecs in a PVP centric game. Originally by: S'Way EvE is a PvP game, you consent to pvp whenever you log in I thought that Eve was a sandbox where you play the game that you want to play - that may or may not include PvP. Just because you play PvP all the time doesn't mean that everyone does.
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 17:10:00 - [2] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Spacemanc I thought that Eve was a sandbox where you play the game that you want to play - that may or may not include PvP. Yes, but it also means that if someone else chooses to PvP you, there should be nothing to stop them. Surely its only fair that it works both ways? If I choose not to PvP, there should be something to stop them? Maybe the traders in EvE think that PvP should be stopped to make life for traders easier? Why should your playing style be forced on other people who prefer to play the game a different way to you?
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 17:20:00 - [3] My point was that Eve is about people following different careers - in fact thats what attracts me to Eve. You cant have PvP without ships and mods - you cant have mods without missions and manufacturing - you cant have manufacturing without research and mining. No-one is saying that PvP'ers should be forced to mine, or research or manufacture or run missions, so why do the PvP'ers want to force all the other "professions" into PvP so much? Theres plenty of other people to fight if you want to fight - let the others play the game they want to play.
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 18:16:00 - [4] Originally by: Kitimortoa Thing is, EVE is a PVP game, if people didn't want to pvp at all, then they shouldn't have started playing. Eve isn't just a PvP game. If you have a problem with people not wanting to PvP, then you shouldn't have started playing.
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 18:38:00 - [5] Originally by: Tippia Wow. Colour me impressed. I sure couldn't make it a whole year in EVE without, say, using the marketà You know exactly what we're talking about when we talk about PvP - no need to twist words just because you are fighting a lost argument. A large part of the Eve player base does not take part in PvP fighting, unless griefers abuse a game mechanic like war-decs, to kill them in supposedly hi-sec space.
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 19:03:00 - [6] So by your logic, there isnt in fact any such thing as carebears as we are all taking part in PvP Also by making hi-sec dangerous, cant you see that it is no different to introducing CONCORD to low-sec? Would you support that idea? Of course not, you would whine that low-sec is supposed to be dangerous, and that's why its called low-sec. Basically you want Eve to fit your playing style with zero regard for the rest of the playerbase.
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 19:20:00 - [7] Edited by: Spacemanc on 08/12/2009 19:22:47 Edited by: Spacemanc on 08/12/2009 19:22:07 Originally by: Kitimortoa EVE is based on PvP, sorry you missed that fact, perhaps you should unsubscribe and go play an MMO that has no PvP. I think its you thats missed the fact that Eve isnt based purely on PvP. In fact the whole idea behind Eve is that you follow the path and career that you want to - PvP is just one of those paths. What you actually mean is that you have chosen PvP, and you think that everybody else should do the same. Originally by: Ranger 1 We aren't talking hi sec vs low sec danger. The fact is EVE as a whole is supposed to be dangerous. Some area's are more restrictive than others, but you are not supposed to be safe anywhere unless you take it upon yourself to keep yourself safe. No one is going to attempt to do it for you, unless of course you pay them (either directly or through a tax). Ultimately, you are responsible for protecting yourself and what is yours. Somehow I suspect that if there was a game mechanic that could be abused, to make low-sec safe, you would be whining.
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:02:00 - [8] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Spacemanc I think its you thats missed the fact that Eve isnt based purely on PvP. Ok. So what parts of EVE, according to you, is not a matter of player vs. player? Tippia you're just trolling - every one knows that PvP refers to fighting. Eve isn't just about fighting - there's many paths you can follow that involve zero fighting, and many many people follow those paths. You might not like that - but its true.
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:19:00 - [9] Edited by: Spacemanc on 08/12/2009 20:21:18 Originally by: Tippia When people say that EVE is a PvP game û the view you're trying to argue û then they mean it in exactly that way: that everything you do is done in competition with others. So again: what parts of EVE, according to you, is not a matter of player vs. player? If you read the thread, I was disputing posts by people who were saying that EvE was all about PVP, when they were referring to fighting. Everyone knows what PvP refers to. Do traders ward dec fellow traders when they're outbid? Do miners war dec fellow miners when a belt is mined? No It is obvious that we were talking about combat, and now you have lost the argument that Eve is all about combat, you've decided to try a use semantics to try and win your arguement.
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 20:33:00 - [10] Tippia - my last post before I leave you in your pit of dumb. Even you refer to PvP in the same way earlier in this very thread. You tried to argue a dumb point and you failed. get over it dear boy

Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 21:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Kitimortoa Originally by: Spacemanc Do traders ward dec fellow traders when they're outbid? Do miners war dec fellow miners when a belt is mined? No Actually, they do...often...a lot of the time they hire mercs to do the wardecs due to lack of pvp ability. My point exactly
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 23:06:00 - [12] tikiana its all about context Read the OP - thats how forums work. PvP was referring to combat, in the same way that it is 99% of the time in Eve. The only thing you've won is a prize for publicly showing that you fail.
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.08 23:47:00 - [13] Originally by: Zartanic Combat is a tiny part of PVP in EVE. Really if you think of PVP as just being ship v ship you are missing the underlying purpose and driving motives to EVE. Strange - you had this to say on another thread yesterday Originally by: Zartanic Edited by: Zartanic on 07/12/2009 21:01:51 FW suggests PVP is common all over EVE and that's not the case. I dont dispute that trading or mining etc is players competing, but in Eve, PvP generally refers to player vs player combat. This point is proven by your post yesterday. Hope that helps
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.09 00:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Dire Radiant Originally by: Spacemanc I dont dispute that trading or mining etc is players competing, but in Eve, PvP generally refers to player vs player combat. So -- then whats your beef with corps shooting one another? You've acknowledged that all aspects of Eve involve competition... Competition that has the potential to escalate into a war dec. Actions have consequences. I don't have a beef with corps shooting one another. I don't have a beef with war-dec's either on the whole, but I do have a problem when the mechanic is "abused" to grief in hi-sec. I'm not suggesting that war-decs be removed from Eve, but maybe it could be tweaked in some way. Even better, lets balance it, and let "carebears" pay CONCORD for protection in low-sec?
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.09 00:48:00 - [15] I was just kidding Slade. Low-sec is low-sec, and I think it should stay that way (though it would be funny seeing the tears if that idea was adopted). I was using that to make the point that hi-sec should be hi-sec, but at the moment you can get around that with war-decs - so maybe a small tweak is needed. And dont get me wrong - I'm not someone who sits in hi-sec all day, but at the same time I think that the game should be as fair as possible to the players that choose to do that.
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.09 02:13:00 - [16] Yes I agree there's no easy answer, because its almost impossible to differentiate legitimate use and griefing. You know, despite the tears it would cause, maybe my CONCORD for hire in low-sec isnt such a bad idea to balance things. You could make it a per ship cost, limit it to say 1 hour,and make it very expensive - maybe with one of the pirate NPC factions doing the policing as "mercenaries" The thing is that this would bring alot of carebears into low sec, and also after a while, many would "risk" going without the "insurance" (or maybe they couldn't afford it) This would also make pirates think twice, because it would be a gamble weather or not the intended victim had protection. Despite the tears, it could actually turn out to be a net gain for pirates, and also carebears could say "high sec isn't always hi sec" and everyone else could reply "low sec isn't always low sec"
Spacemanc	Posted - 2009.12.09 04:12:00 - [17] Originally by: Ranger 1 Edited by: Ranger 1 on 09/12/2009 03:22:42 The main problem with your argument is that you mis-understand what hi-sec is. It's High Security. Not complete security, not ultimate security, it's high security. Stop trying to change the very fabric of the game because you either don't understand it or don't have the stomach for it. Neither we, nor CCP, is here to cater to your whims. No once again its you that misunderstands. I fully aware that hi-sec isn't always hi-sec, so I suggested that maybe low-sec shouldn't always mean low-sec. Judging by changes in EvEs history, CCP does cater to to people who prefer hi-sec, as its such a large proportion of the playerbase. You might not think that, because you and your friends tears fill the forum, but its true.

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