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Juren Coda
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Posted - 2009.12.08 11:49:00 -
[1]
Caldari Militia is mass abusing a standing exploit to steamroll Minmatar militia systems
They use alts with high minmatar FW standings to join caldari militia corps. These alts can run minmatar complexes without being shot by the minmatar NPC, because of the ranks with minmatar militia they have.
People may argue about this if its a bug or not, but from a logical point of view, this is not intended to be happening as it is and is basically an exploit. If you are at war with a faction, then the enemy NPC faction should shoot you, no matter if you have ranks from being on their side in the past. As ex minmatar militia pilot you are basically a traitor swithing sides and should be shot by minmatar npc even harder.
Shame on the Caldari militia pilots who exploit this bug on mass scale at the moment. There will be NO glory in claiming you took all minmatar space using this exploit.
In response to this information, Gallente militia pilots have filed petitions to CCP to deem this bug as an exploit and a bannable act to those tho use this exploit. Also part of this petition is to give all systems back to minmatar occupancy that have been lost during the use of this exploit.
I also call for any gallente and minmatar FW pilot who reads this message, to write a samelike petition to show a strong signal against these kinds of exploits. You are allowed to link this blogpost url (http://eve.mmowiki.nl/?p=307) into the petition to build up a strong case.
We stand united with the Minmatar faction and will do our very best to help them in ways we can afford.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.08 11:51:00 -
[2]
No exploits. Working as intended.
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.08 11:53:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Bad Messenger No exploits. Working as intended.
Indeed, said so by quite a few Gallentes who plexed using characters with said standing issue and who we petitioned for a year (look on forums).
So perhaps you ought to look at your own ranks first before accusing others. You made the bed, now sleep on it.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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orphenshadow
Gallente Easy Co.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 11:59:00 -
[4]
The logs show no record of an exploit. Everything is working as intended.
Easy Co. |
olzi
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.08 12:10:00 -
[5]
There is already a thread about this in the Assembly hall, try posting your constructive ideas there.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1224938
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.12.08 14:03:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Juren Coda Im sure it will get the propper CCP attention now, as more people share the same concern.
it's FW, there's more chance of them fixing the Tempest TBH --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Jones Bones
Final Agony
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Posted - 2009.12.08 14:08:00 -
[7]
CCP doesn't care about FW. They sorta nerfed the missions and that was it.
Get over yourselves, your little part of the game means nothing to CCP. It was a failed Live test of a new look at sovereignty, which they obviously did not go with.
Welcome to our world. CCP doesn't recognize lowsec. Go to 0.0 or carebear in high sec, then maybe you'll get some attention. =================== Go Bucks! |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.08 16:28:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Juren Coda
EDIT: @olzi, thanks for linking another petition about the same issue. You contributed to this post in a constructive way to fix this. Im sure it will get the propper CCP attention now, as more people share the same concern.
Doubt it. This concern has been well known for quite a while and has never been addressed. Pervs alts should join Gallente and take over all of Caldari space. Invert the map fellas; I know you can do it!
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.12.08 17:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bad Messenger No exploits. Working as intended.
Confirming this.
Don't blame pervs, blame CCP.
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Murashu
Eye of God Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.08 17:15:00 -
[10]
This has been going on for a long time now and CCP does not consider it an exploit. I petitioned it months ago when one of the CSMs (Ank whatever her name is) was soloing plexes in a griffin fitted with a cloaking device, and CCP stated it was not an exploit. _______ Murashu Agony's End |
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GavinGoodrich
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.12.08 17:35:00 -
[11]
Synns tears are extra salty tears \o |
oolk
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Posted - 2009.12.08 17:56:00 -
[12]
Next stop Amarr!
We gonna own eve!
yar!
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Mithril Ryder
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Posted - 2009.12.09 00:07:00 -
[13]
An exploit is an exploit even if the Devs are too busy with other issues to care. But then again, pathetic people do pathetic things so they can feel good about themselves, *shrug*.
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AterraX
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.09 01:11:00 -
[14]
Why do the gallentes whine so much?
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Kora Zilesti
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Posted - 2009.12.09 01:18:00 -
[15]
Originally by: AterraX Why do the gallentes whine so much?
Possibly because our ability to recapture systems has been repressed for five months by the open availability of this exploit, and CCP says it's working as intended because they can't be arsed to correct it.
Totally unreasonable to complain, I know! :)
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Dibsi Dei
Salamyhkaisten kilta HYDRA RELOADED
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Posted - 2009.12.09 03:31:00 -
[16]
Originally by: AterraX Why do the gallentes whine so much?
Because fw isnt going to fix itself.
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NupetietVer
Valklear Guard
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Posted - 2009.12.09 04:01:00 -
[17]
FW is PvP-lite according to CCP, so you can pretty much kiss changes goodbye. If you don't have a thousand man alliance moaning and groaning, it ain't gonna happen.
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Kruger81
Caldari Costolle Military Assistance Corporation
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Posted - 2009.12.09 06:22:00 -
[18]
CCP don't give a **** about FacWar, they trow bones sometimes.
I think it's sad to see Dev's do that to a part off the game, it really ruins the new player experience.
As for PvP-Lite, You need alot more playerskills to do well in FacWar then in 0,0. And it's a whole other scales of fights.
CCP should be ashamed off em self, and rethink that FacWar need as much love as 0,0 if they can't see the "whole" in game, they need to hire new ppl that CAN!
Just my 2 cents...
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Isebelle
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Posted - 2009.12.09 06:39:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Isebelle on 09/12/2009 06:39:51
Originally by: AterraX Why do the gallentes whine so much?
Aren't we basically the Eve version of the French?
Doh - posted with the wrong toon!
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Insa Rexion
Minmatar CTRL-Q
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Posted - 2009.12.09 06:42:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Isebelle Edited by: Isebelle on 09/12/2009 06:39:51
Originally by: AterraX Why do the gallentes whine so much?
Aren't we basically the Eve version of the French?
Doh - posted with the wrong toon!
The French don't whine, they go on strike, the English whine for all they are worth, i should know --------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
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Yakia TovilToba
Halliburton Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.09 14:16:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Juren Coda
Shame on the Caldari militia pilots who exploit this bug on mass scale at the moment.
No, it's shame on CCP for not fixing this. There are all kind of exploits and bugs around this capturing mechanics, that could be fixed, if the conquering timer only runs when hostile NPCs are killed. Which actually is more intuitive and more realistic. No stealth ship conquering, no conquering of the hard plexes with an interceptor, no standing abuse etc. It's been asked for what, a year already ? (Started with the covops exploit) Yet CCP doesn't care. You can't blame someone who is tired of asking for fixes and takes advantage of such things.
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Cosmic Raider
Solo Plex
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Posted - 2009.12.09 14:36:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Cosmic Raider on 09/12/2009 14:37:38 Edited by: Cosmic Raider on 09/12/2009 14:37:20
Originally by: Juren Coda Edited by: Juren Coda on 08/12/2009 12:20:13 Edited by: Juren Coda on 08/12/2009 12:19:39 Caldari Militia are big meanies and took our candy.
Fixed. I love it when people are all outraged to discover there is gambling in the casino.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.09 18:33:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cosmic Raider Fixed. I love it when people are all outraged to discover there is gambling in the casino.
I know what you mean. Get with the times fellas! Time to take all that isk you earned from FW missions and use it to buy an alt (you can still have fun with your main this way), build up Caldari/Amarr standings and then plex with impunity.
And that goes for you Gallente plexers as well. It's freaking ridiculous to see you guys roaming around with your mains plexing when you could be so much more efficient with high Caldari standing alts.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.09 20:03:00 -
[24]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: Cosmic Raider Fixed. I love it when people are all outraged to discover there is gambling in the casino.
I know what you mean. Get with the times fellas! Time to take all that isk you earned from FW missions and use it to buy an alt (you can still have fun with your main this way), build up Caldari/Amarr standings and then plex with impunity.
And that goes for you Gallente plexers as well. It's freaking ridiculous to see you guys roaming around with your mains plexing when you could be so much more efficient with high Caldari standing alts.
Actually if you think it again you will notice that alts does not cost much at all.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.09 20:41:00 -
[25]
Meant a second account with GTCs. My bad.
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Angelzin
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Posted - 2009.12.09 21:08:00 -
[26]
If CCP don't give a F... about FW they should remove all missions for it as well as rewards.
Seems like simple thing to do and could easily lift their spirits in wake of more failures they recently had.
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Zverofaust
Gallente Ice Fire Warriors
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Posted - 2009.12.09 23:05:00 -
[27]
The entire mechanic of plexing is pretty much the most broken aspect of Eve. Great that CCP can take the time to improve planet graphics but completely ignore something that 1/4 of their players are involved in.
As for this "exploit", I don't personally consider it much more of an exploit than the ease with which you can kite plex rats anyway. 95% of plexing is done by individuals and it so happens that Amarr have more individuals willing to plex than Minmatar, and the influx of a few Caldari who appear to also enjoy spending the majority of their playing time orbiting buttons has done very little except the generation of a short newspost and a bit of conversation amongst the Minmatar.
Faction sovereignty/occupancy system is broken. It is unchallenging, it is unrewarding, it has no effect on any aspect of gameplay and in general it is ridiculous that people take the time to actually do it.
The majority of the Minmatar militia really don't give a half ass about plexing and system occupancy. If the Amarr and Caldari want to waste their time plexing for 23/7 then they're more than welcome to. Most of us joined FW to PVP, not play roles and tell stories or waste hour after hour tediously orbiting little structures in space.
TL;DR, either remove the whole plexing bullcrap and just let people pvp or actually create some sort of even remotely dynamic, interesting and challenging system for faction occupancy.
Also, I've opened up a pool for bets on how long it'll take the Caldari to take all our systems. 1mil ISK gets you in; whoever selects the correct date (EVE time) on which our last system falls wins the pot. COntact me ingame for details.
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Invelious
Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies
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Posted - 2009.12.09 23:36:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Zverofaust The entire mechanic of plexing is pretty much the most broken aspect of Eve. Great that CCP can take the time to improve planet graphics but completely ignore something that 1/4 of their players are involved in.
As for this "exploit", I don't personally consider it much more of an exploit than the ease with which you can kite plex rats anyway. 95% of plexing is done by individuals and it so happens that Amarr have more individuals willing to plex than Minmatar, and the influx of a few Caldari who appear to also enjoy spending the majority of their playing time orbiting buttons has done very little except the generation of a short newspost and a bit of conversation amongst the Minmatar.
Faction sovereignty/occupancy system is broken. It is unchallenging, it is unrewarding, it has no effect on any aspect of gameplay and in general it is ridiculous that people take the time to actually do it.
The majority of the Minmatar militia really don't give a half ass about plexing and system occupancy. If the Amarr and Caldari want to waste their time plexing for 23/7 then they're more than welcome to. Most of us joined FW to PVP, not play roles and tell stories or waste hour after hour tediously orbiting little structures in space.
TL;DR, either remove the whole plexing bullcrap and just let people pvp or actually create some sort of even remotely dynamic, interesting and challenging system for faction occupancy.
Also, I've opened up a pool for bets on how long it'll take the Caldari to take all our systems. 1mil ISK gets you in; whoever selects the correct date (EVE time) on which our last system falls wins the pot. COntact me ingame for details.
^^^ full support, but, I wear a wizard hat when playing eve and thus gain personal satisfaction seeing them "loose" space in this war.
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.10 11:17:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:21:04 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:19:32 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:17:25
Originally by: Juren Coda Shame on the Caldari militia pilots who exploit this bug on mass scale at the moment. There will be NO glory in claiming you took all minmatar space using this exploit.
I'll answer this one: Nobody (this is very important) cared about our gaming experience and enjoyment when we were loudly protesting Gallentes use of bugs, such as standings exploit or turning NPCs to fire upon Caldari militia members. I actually seem to recall you ridiculing us when we protested when in combat member of your fleet turned NPCs on us.
Nennamaila resident recently confessed that in fight vs me and Bad Messenger that "Yes, Amon Dei indeed confessed he used the exploit but I didnt know about it" (suffice to say I dont believe the last part at all). Did he apologise, show remorse, say it was lame? Of course not.
So tell me. Why should we listen to people who used the bugs/exploits initially and did not find it shameful in the least? How they can or even dare say "two wrongs dont make right?"
And frankly i'm getting bored now in seeing all the same faces in the front, using same exploits (Hello Val, thanks for using npc bug in Eugales two days ago to turn npcs on Caldari Maller) and being a crutch for whole militia. So go ahead and plex, I wont be there to stop you as I return to Matar front (as PERVS member). It will be up to others to get off their backsides.
To use the old phrase, "Cat is away, mice and rats are running around" basicly means that Caldari/Gallente front is ripe for small gang pvp action. I assume majority of the militia will not care (as we know, plexing gives you STD) but actually, I learned it by now and can actually look at it quite stress free.
Once we get bored with Matar front, we can return to our front and do what is necessary.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.10 11:39:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Ralnik on 10/12/2009 11:40:09
Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:21:04 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:19:32 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:17:25
Originally by: Juren Coda Shame on the Caldari militia pilots who exploit this bug on mass scale at the moment. There will be NO glory in claiming you took all minmatar space using this exploit.
I'll answer this one: Nobody (this is very important) cared about our gaming experience and enjoyment when we were loudly protesting Gallentes use of bugs, such as standings exploit or turning NPCs to fire upon Caldari militia members. I actually seem to recall you ridiculing us when we protested when in combat member of your fleet turned NPCs on us.
Nennamaila resident recently confessed that in fight vs me and Bad Messenger that "Yes, Amon Dei indeed confessed he used the exploit but I didnt know about it" (suffice to say I dont believe the last part at all). Did he apologise, show remorse, say it was lame? Of course not.
So tell me. Why should we listen to people who used the bugs/exploits initially and did not find it shameful in the least? How they can or even dare say "two wrongs dont make right?"
And frankly i'm getting bored now in seeing all the same faces in the front, using same exploits (Hello Val, thanks for using npc bug in Eugales two days ago to turn npcs on Caldari Maller) and being a crutch for whole militia. So go ahead and plex, I wont be there to stop you as I return to Matar front (as PERVS member). It will be up to others to get off their backsides.
To use the old phrase, "Cat is away, mice and rats are running around" basicly means that Caldari/Gallente front is ripe for small gang pvp action. I assume majority of the militia will not care (as we know, plexing gives you STD) but actually, I learned it by now and can actually look at it quite stress free.
Once we get bored with Matar front, we can return to our front and do what is necessary.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Minmatar nor Amarr did these things to you in your plexing war with Gallente. Yet because as you claim, the Gallente broke your toys.. You come to Minmatar space to break our toys.
LoL this is kind of funny TBH.. The best part is now you are losing systems to Gallente because you are in Minmatar space screwing with our war.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.10 11:48:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 10/12/2009 11:40:09
Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:21:04 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:19:32 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:17:25
Originally by: Juren Coda Shame on the Caldari militia pilots who exploit this bug on mass scale at the moment. There will be NO glory in claiming you took all minmatar space using this exploit.
I'll answer this one: Nobody (this is very important) cared about our gaming experience and enjoyment when we were loudly protesting Gallentes use of bugs, such as standings exploit or turning NPCs to fire upon Caldari militia members. I actually seem to recall you ridiculing us when we protested when in combat member of your fleet turned NPCs on us.
Nennamaila resident recently confessed that in fight vs me and Bad Messenger that "Yes, Amon Dei indeed confessed he used the exploit but I didnt know about it" (suffice to say I dont believe the last part at all). Did he apologise, show remorse, say it was lame? Of course not.
So tell me. Why should we listen to people who used the bugs/exploits initially and did not find it shameful in the least? How they can or even dare say "two wrongs dont make right?"
And frankly i'm getting bored now in seeing all the same faces in the front, using same exploits (Hello Val, thanks for using npc bug in Eugales two days ago to turn npcs on Caldari Maller) and being a crutch for whole militia. So go ahead and plex, I wont be there to stop you as I return to Matar front (as PERVS member). It will be up to others to get off their backsides.
To use the old phrase, "Cat is away, mice and rats are running around" basicly means that Caldari/Gallente front is ripe for small gang pvp action. I assume majority of the militia will not care (as we know, plexing gives you STD) but actually, I learned it by now and can actually look at it quite stress free.
Once we get bored with Matar front, we can return to our front and do what is necessary.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Minmatar nor Amarr did these things to you in your plexing war with Gallente. Yet because as you claim, the Gallente broke your toys.. You come to Minmatar space to break our toys.
LoL this is kind of funny TBH.. The best part is now you are losing systems to Gallente because you are in Minmatar space screwing with our war.
Get your facts right boy.
Only place we can go to take systems is minmatar area. And minmatars has been in caldari area using standing advantage all the time. But if you did not knew it it does not mean it did not happen.
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Juren Coda
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Posted - 2009.12.10 12:49:00 -
[32]
you are not giving any answer to my text you quoted in your reply. you are only exhorting your grieve. This part of my message is also not really usefull for so called "quoting" as its more a statement, not a question that needs to be answered.
There will still be no glory in mass abusing this standing exploit, taking all minmatar space. That CCP fails to fix it so far, has nothing to do with it. Neither who started or found out this bug in the past. Making a complete campaing resolve around this bug, and openly proclaiming this campaign is making use of this standing bug, makes the caldari campaign without glory.
Just remember also, that even if you take all minmatar space and CCP does fix this bug, Minmatar militia will still have to reclaim all systems by fighting. that are now falling because of Caldari grief, no matter if that grief is justified or not.
You (Caldari, who are in this campaign), displace minmatar who want to fight a fair war over territory with the amarr militia by NOT employing this bug, yet you Caldari meddle in their affairs. Says more about the reasons the Caldari are doing this campaign.
This caldari campaign is selfish and does not look for a solution that has the support of all 4 races in faction warfare. There is Amarr FW corporations and individuals that disaprove with your "bug" campaign
So, better get back to the drawing board and make a petition to ccp to fix things. There is always another way to solve things instead of magnifying the use of a bug.
BTW, some caldari's in various posts last few days say we take systems now because they are not present. They are present with a decent force, including many of the Caldari alt army (both Damar and Bad Messenger told in earlier posts and/or in various chats in eve). Its the Gallente militia that is getting more organised in reclaiming systems and the Caldari militia failing to defend systems properly.
Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:21:04 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:19:32 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:17:25
Originally by: Juren Coda Shame on the Caldari militia pilots who exploit this bug on mass scale at the moment. There will be NO glory in claiming you took all minmatar space using this exploit.
I'll answer this one: Nobody (this is very important) cared about our gaming experience and enjoyment when we were loudly protesting Gallentes use of bugs, such as standings exploit or turning NPCs to fire upon Caldari militia members. I actually seem to recall you ridiculing us when we protested when in combat member of your fleet turned NPCs on us.
Nennamaila resident recently confessed that in fight vs me and Bad Messenger that "Yes, Amon Dei indeed confessed he used the exploit but I didnt know about it" (suffice to say I dont believe the last part at all). Did he apologise, show remorse, say it was lame? Of course not.
So tell me. Why should we listen to people who used the bugs/exploits initially and did not find it shameful in the least? How they can or even dare say "two wrongs dont make right?"
And frankly i'm getting bored now in seeing all the same faces in the front, using same exploits (Hello Val, thanks for using npc bug in Eugales two days ago to turn npcs on Caldari Maller) and being a crutch for whole militia. So go ahead and plex, I wont be there to stop you as I return to Matar front (as PERVS member). It will be up to others to get off their backsides.
To use the old phrase, "Cat is away, mice and rats are running around" basicly means that Caldari/Gallente front is ripe for small gang pvp action. I assume majority of the militia will not care (as we know, plexing gives you STD) but actually, I learned it by now and can actually look at it quite stress free.
Once we get bored with Matar front, we can return to our front and do what is necessary.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Jin Gle
Asgardreia
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Posted - 2009.12.10 13:29:00 -
[33]
hehe people involved in the FW war point out the futility of this war once again. Since both sides cheat, results are meaningless (and they were pretty meaningless to begin with). Enjoy your 'victories' brave soldiers!
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GavinGoodrich
State Protectorate
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Posted - 2009.12.10 13:40:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Jin Gle hehe people involved in the FW war point out the futility of this war once again. Since both sides cheat, results are meaningless (and they were pretty meaningless to begin with). Enjoy your 'victories' brave soldiers!
woot! ^this \o |
Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.10 13:46:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Ralnik on 10/12/2009 13:47:48
Originally by: Jin Gle hehe people involved in the FW war point out the futility of this war once again. Since both sides cheat, results are meaningless (and they were pretty meaningless to begin with). Enjoy your 'victories' brave soldiers!
You are totally off base.. Having some random person or two using a exploit isn't going to make a system fall. Yes, there will always be people that will try to exploit this kind of thing, but a handful of people here or there don't cause a simple exploit like this to be game breaking.
It's another thing entirely to have a whole campaign revolving around this exploit for the sole purpose of greifing another Militia. Not only are these Caldri greifing the Minmatar, but they are also spitting in the face of the many Amarr corps that have fought a fair and honorable fight.
These Amarr will always have3 a hollow victory, because they know it wasn't a honest or legit one. Therefore you guys are ****ting on the Amarr as well.
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.10 14:56:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 14:56:11
Originally by: Ralnik Yes, there will always be people that will try to exploit this kind of thing, but a handful of people here or there don't cause a simple exploit like this to be game breaking.
I am fully convinced that once exploit was more well known, people would have started using it. After all, "Turn Caldari npcs on Caldari militia" bug was increasingly being used by members of Gallente militia.
Horde of alts with state standings was probably just around the corner. At least now the gallente are angered off enough to do it the legit way (they know their ways were exposed). And me, after six months, no longer really give a crap.
This merely proves two things: First, Caldari militia, some worthy exceptions aside, are a house of cards that dont care about plexes (Eeek, I could like lose a ship!) and still heed the call of "blob" and Tama gate. Second, Gallente militia really was put off from plexing by PERVS alts and said few worthy exceptions. If you guys want, I can even stop using my alts except for two systems
That is, if few 60k sp alts with t1 frigs are significant military presence
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.10 15:02:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 14:56:11
Originally by: Ralnik Yes, there will always be people that will try to exploit this kind of thing, but a handful of people here or there don't cause a simple exploit like this to be game breaking.
I am fully convinced that once exploit was more well known, people would have started using it. After all, "Turn Caldari npcs on Caldari militia" bug was increasingly being used by members of Gallente militia.
Horde of alts with state standings was probably just around the corner. At least now the gallente are angered off enough to do it the legit way (they know their ways were exposed). And me, after six months, no longer really give a crap.
This merely proves two things: First, Caldari militia, some worthy exceptions aside, are a house of cards that dont care about plexes (Eeek, I could like lose a ship!) and still heed the call of "blob" and Tama gate. Second, Gallente militia really was put off from plexing by PERVS alts and said few worthy exceptions. If you guys want, I can even stop using my alts except for two systems
That is, if few 60k sp alts with t1 frigs are significant military presence
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
I vote for a) no one gives a ****.
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Juren Coda
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Posted - 2009.12.10 15:25:00 -
[38]
Damar clearly constantly quote's parts of replies of people to infuse his grieve even more and to try and distract the reader, either in faction warfare or outside.
This wont work Damar. You cannot hide your faul and low campaign against the minmatar, by trying to find your so called excuses to justify this campaing, using this bug on mass scale in a war that is essentially not yours even. Let Amarr and Minmatar fight a honourable fight.
Or... should i post some chatlogs to show the reader that you do feel guilty and wrong being part of this campaign. and that you told me and possibly also others you mailed caldari corps to stop this campaign in Minmatar space because you said its a not fair campaign. would be fun for people to see how you contradict yourself. And that for a former CSM candidate that wanted to serve all 4 races in improving FW. Oh my!
You are not a person to be trusted at all in anything that has to do with FW, as you are only interested in Caldari, or should i say: your OWN interests in trying to make yourself a heroe with lies and misdirection.
Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 14:56:11
Originally by: Ralnik Yes, there will always be people that will try to exploit this kind of thing, but a handful of people here or there don't cause a simple exploit like this to be game breaking.
I am fully convinced that once exploit was more well known, people would have started using it. After all, "Turn Caldari npcs on Caldari militia" bug was increasingly being used by members of Gallente militia.
Horde of alts with state standings was probably just around the corner. At least now the gallente are angered off enough to do it the legit way (they know their ways were exposed). And me, after six months, no longer really give a crap.
This merely proves two things: First, Caldari militia, some worthy exceptions aside, are a house of cards that dont care about plexes (Eeek, I could like lose a ship!) and still heed the call of "blob" and Tama gate. Second, Gallente militia really was put off from plexing by PERVS alts and said few worthy exceptions. If you guys want, I can even stop using my alts except for two systems
That is, if few 60k sp alts with t1 frigs are significant military presence
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.10 15:26:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion ... (as we know, plexing gives you STD) ...
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
That's it I draw the line here. Plexing, while its mechanics are completely botched, does NOT, I repeat does NOT give you sexually transmitted diseases.
This is yet another outright lie by Brigadier General Damar Rocarion.
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Rick Wensbane
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.10 15:43:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Get your facts right boy.
Only place we can go to take systems is minmatar area. And minmatars has been in caldari area using standing advantage all the time. But if you did not knew it it does not mean it did not happen.
This is starting to sound more and more like one of those pointless "others have done it before, so it's ok for me to do it now!" arguments.
I always said metagaming and exploiting would kill this game (for me). I really regret being right.
I mean, what's the point now? All those hours spent orbitting beacons, most of the time solo since no one ever wants to join plexing fleets, just so someone can swoop in, abuse some "exploit/loophole/faulty mechanic" and render all of that hard work useless in a matter of DAYS? Enough is enough, EVE may be more than a game for some, but that's all it is for me, I have others sitting on the shelf, just begging to be (re)installed...
PS: I don't blame the players, I blame CCP, for accepting these kinds of tactics but especially for not being able to provide decent Factional Warfare mechanics. First Gallente space, now Minmatar... f they couldn't do it properly, they shouldn't even have tried to implement FW at all!
Ridiculous... absolutely ridiculous.
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Scaldari Anitoba
Gallente Avalon WP2 Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.10 17:01:00 -
[41]
So you say it was done to you. You even claim maybe some of our Guys came over to the Cal/Gal war and did it there. No body knows who decided to do it first. But i can tell you when i was in the Gal Militia, the war was frak'd broken, futile and no fun. So its a shining example of what can happen when you use the exploit. I went back to the Minmatar Militia where those things were not being done int he war. Honest System give and take was occurring. Fleet engagements and small gang/solo PvP the norm.
You come into our war and start screwing it up. What gives you the right to **** in our cornflakes for something that happened on the other side of the universe. Hell, if i was in the caldari militia and found out what you were up to, i would have hunted you down myself Caldari- GO HOME, we do not want your dishonor here. You disgrace your Leader, and you debase yourselves. You have forgotten the names of your Fathers. Your Ancestors turn from you in shame. #########################
Fame, or Infamy. Just depends on which side writes the history. Regardless, to be remembered is to be immortal. I wish you all Immortality. |
Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.12.10 17:36:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Scaldari Anitoba What gives you the right to **** in our cornflakes for something that happened on the other side of the universe.
Because CCP say it's working as intended.
Originally by: Scaldari Anitoba
Hell, if i was in the caldari militia and found out what you were up to, i would have hunted you down myself.
Most caldari think damarr is a freaking moron and refused to vote for him in the csm.
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Alenora Tizar
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Posted - 2009.12.10 18:38:00 -
[43]
As a once and future member of the amarrian militia I can say that I whole heartedly wish for every last one of the filthy minmatars systems to be conquered.
However, most amarrian ( and even minmatar) pilots fight with a certain amount of honor. In that spirit I cannot condone the actions of the caldari militia for this flagrant exploit.
We want to "win" but not at the expense of losing our honor.
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Scrym
Holy Amarrian Battlemonk
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Posted - 2009.12.10 18:54:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Alenora Tizar As a once and future member of the amarrian militia I can say that I whole heartedly wish for every last one of the filthy minmatars systems to be conquered.
However, most amarrian ( and even minmatar) pilots fight with a certain amount of honor. In that spirit I cannot condone the actions of the caldari militia for this flagrant exploit.
We want to "win" but not at the expense of losing our honor.
NOT OUR SPACE HONOR!!!!!!
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Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.10 19:17:00 -
[45]
Not the gumdrop buttons!
I can just imagine a throbbing vein poking out of Damar's head everytime someone uses an 'exploit' against him. Go join an alliance, your bitter rageposting would be perfect for COAD.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.10 19:24:00 -
[46]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 10/12/2009 19:26:30 Edited by: X Gallentius on 10/12/2009 19:25:57
Originally by: Droog 1
Most caldari think damarr is a freaking moron and refused to vote for him in the csm.
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1229479
A deranged moron, but a deranged moron with balls! Loved the surrender demand Damar!
Caldari have been gloating off of his and PERVS's (apostrophe s is appropriate here) alt-army efforts for 6 months now. Let's see if they step up and fight if Damar and PERVS remove their alt-army from the occupancy war.
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Unfamed II
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.10 19:57:00 -
[47]
Jade's reaction to that 'ransom' was quite fun read tbh. Oh and ignore that one guy who aint even in our corp and goes "omg you write it wrong", pervs is just fine lol.
Exploiting or not, the lame standing alt ***gotry has proven to be useful so far, the problem got attention. We got negative attention but whatever, dont really care what ppl think of us. Just one dev/gm post saying "we are aware of the issue" would be enough to stop it, at least I would stop at that point.
Think of moongate, it continued for years, and when it became public knowledge, it quickly got fixed. FW aint srsbsns but we dont really ask much either. Some wait for ccp to wake up, some try to wake up ccp.
Oh and, I feel bad about using it. -b |
Kora Zilesti
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Posted - 2009.12.10 20:05:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Unfamed II Jade's reaction to that 'ransom' was quite fun read tbh. Oh and ignore that one guy who aint even in our corp and goes "omg you write it wrong", pervs is just fine lol.
Exploiting or not, the lame standing alt ***gotry has proven to be useful so far, the problem got attention. We got negative attention but whatever, dont really care what ppl think of us. Just one dev/gm post saying "we are aware of the issue" would be enough to stop it, at least I would stop at that point.
Think of moongate, it continued for years, and when it became public knowledge, it quickly got fixed. FW aint srsbsns but we dont really ask much either. Some wait for ccp to wake up, some try to wake up ccp.
Oh and, I feel bad about using it.
Abuse it until it can't be ignored... not a bad plan. Still frustrating for the Minmatar and even the Amarr, though.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.10 20:38:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Bad Messenger on 10/12/2009 20:38:35
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Anewb N'eve
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:45:00 -
[50]
Since the new Advanced Military career agent points you to Faction Warfare at the end of the chain it might eventually get fixed.
CCP Give Faction War to the New Player Experience Team.
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Greg6
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:29:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Rick Wensbane.......
I always said metagaming and exploiting would kill this game (for me). I really regret being right.
I mean, what's the point now? All those hours spent orbitting beacons, most of the time solo since no one ever wants to join plexing fleets,......[/quote
And that's the key. It isn't about the exploits, it isn't about the alts. Bottom line is that most folk find plexing boring. In the absence of PVP, or successfully flipping systems, most people simply won't plex. Because they won't Damar, BM, and their alts are able to be very successful at flipping systems. But, once you can get a group of 20 to 50 folk, in a few time zones, who are into plexing Damar and BM can't stop them. Exploits, and alts aside, all it really takes is people willing to plex, over time.
Is that to say that FW isn't full of game design problems? Of course not. It is to say that they are not insurmountable. If enough folk are willing to plex, and fight for plexes, in the Min/Amarr space you will be able to stop Damar/BM from taking all of the systems. If, like in Gall space, only a few will plex you may have problems. But the issue is the number of folk who will plex, not the fact that Damar/BM are as willing to take advantage of the game mechanics as the next gamer over is.
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Per Bastet
Amarr B.O.O.M
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Posted - 2009.12.10 23:26:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Kora Zilesti Abuse it until it can't be ignored... not a bad plan. Still frustrating for the Minmatar and even the Amarr, though.
Worked for the War Dec system and the Privateers. --
Bastet's Organization Of Mining |
Alenora Tizar
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Posted - 2009.12.11 00:18:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Scrym
Originally by: Alenora Tizar As a once and future member of the amarrian militia I can say that I whole heartedly wish for every last one of the filthy minmatars systems to be conquered.
However, most amarrian ( and even minmatar) pilots fight with a certain amount of honor. In that spirit I cannot condone the actions of the caldari militia for this flagrant exploit.
We want to "win" but not at the expense of losing our honor.
NOT OUR SPACE HONOR!!!!!!
lol hey, I didn't say everyone has it. just that most people don't stoop to the level of using exploits, ect...
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Scaldari Anitoba
Gallente Avalon WP2 Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.11 01:23:00 -
[54]
Greg, PLEASE evemail me in game. My entire corp is dying to plex. that is what most of us want to do in FW.... I post with my Main account.
Originally by: Greg6
Originally by: Rick Wensbane.......
I always said metagaming and exploiting would kill this game (for me). I really regret being right.
I mean, what's the point now? All those hours spent orbitting beacons, most of the time solo since no one ever wants to join plexing fleets,......[/quote
And that's the key. It isn't about the exploits, it isn't about the alts. Bottom line is that most folk find plexing boring. In the absence of PVP, or successfully flipping systems, most people simply won't plex. Because they won't Damar, BM, and their alts are able to be very successful at flipping systems. But, once you can get a group of 20 to 50 folk, in a few time zones, who are into plexing Damar and BM can't stop them. Exploits, and alts aside, all it really takes is people willing to plex, over time.
Is that to say that FW isn't full of game design problems? Of course not. It is to say that they are not insurmountable. If enough folk are willing to plex, and fight for plexes, in the Min/Amarr space you will be able to stop Damar/BM from taking all of the systems. If, like in Gall space, only a few will plex you may have problems. But the issue is the number of folk who will plex, not the fact that Damar/BM are as willing to take advantage of the game mechanics as the next gamer over is.
#########################
Fame, or Infamy. Just depends on which side writes the history. Regardless, to be remembered is to be immortal. I wish you all Immortality. |
Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.11 07:14:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 11/12/2009 07:17:52 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 11/12/2009 07:15:40
Originally by: Juren Coda Or... should i post some chatlogs to show the reader that you do feel guilty and wrong being part of this campaign. and that you told me and possibly also others you mailed caldari corps to stop this campaign in Minmatar space because you said its a not fair campaign. would be fun for people to see how you contradict yourself. And that for a former CSM candidate that wanted to serve all 4 races in improving FW. Oh my!
Yeah, it's lame and I fully agree. Unfamed II says the same. I never asked other Caldari corps to stop and even offered IC solution for a way out of this mess when such was still possible early on.
But hardly matters anymore does it? And....still waiting on Neo Gabriels comments about abusing the "Turn npcs on friendly militia" bug. Not once has any Gallente said it is wrong to use it.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.11 07:33:00 -
[56]
Edited by: chatgris on 11/12/2009 07:33:01
Originally by: Damar Rocarion But hardly matters anymore does it? And....still waiting on Neo Gabriels comments about abusing the "Turn npcs on friendly militia" bug. Not once has any Gallente said it is wrong to use it.
This? STILL!?!
I think it's wrong to use it. To my knowledge, it was used *once*, ACCIDENTALLY trying to keep rat aggro on one person (who knew that rats switched at some magical number around 200k? Not us, not then.) so the rest could fight unhindered in the plex. And then you started a threadnaught on it, and continue to bring it up?
I'd have to say the one time it was accidentally triggered PALES in comparison to the crap you're kicking up in amarr/minnie space.
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Tozmeister
Digital Fury Corporation
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Posted - 2009.12.11 08:26:00 -
[57]
How come in all your "we don't want to do this. we know it's lame. but it's for the greater good" rhetoric did you not once get some sort of consensus from the Minmatar CEO's and FC's about not defending so the process could be even quicker? This does, after all, significantly change their game. Don't you think they should have some say in the matter?
How come it's just as much a shock to the Amarr CEO's and FC's?
+++????+++Out of Cheese Error. Redo From Start+++ |
Gallactica
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.11 10:17:00 -
[58]
Just a point, its unfair to label all the Caldari doing this when its just a very very small minority - Theres a lot of good guys in the Caldari who are as miffed as everyone else that this is going in.
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.11 11:22:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Gallactica Just a point, its unfair to label all the Caldari doing this when its just a very very small minority - Theres a lot of good guys in the Caldari who are as miffed as everyone else that this is going in.
Good for them. I quess we have more moral fibre than you lot as i've yet to see Gallente who would be miffled by using the bug to turn Caldari npcs on Caldari militia.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.11 11:25:00 -
[60]
Like I told you, I didn't know the turns npc on friendlies was a feature until a few days ago. I don't like to cheat to win games and I wouldn't use this even if i knew it, and haven't since, and have told people not to do it when we could have done it. I honestly don't know if that bug/exploit was used on purpose but it doesn't matter really.
Burning away to 200km can make npcs shoot the enemy as well as anyone else still inside the plex withing range, so that time since he was the only one inside and out of range you guys got fire. Getting range on long range NPCs and caracals is not really a stupid idea.
However, maybe since you guys are OK with abusing game mechanics we could start to use the turn npc on enemy trick more often! I mean, we gotta bring this to CCP's attention, so lets grief the caldari until they declare it an exploit! Minnies should do the same!
Also noticed you guys trying to plex but also noticed you guys sort of went away. Not sure if you decided to make your best in minnie offensive or just realized you can't use ur alts to counterplex 100 gallente.
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.11 11:42:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Neo Gabriel Also noticed you guys trying to plex but also noticed you guys sort of went away. Not sure if you decided to make your best in minnie offensive or just realized you can't use ur alts to counterplex 100 gallente.
What, you mean you are getting bored already after a week? I defended systems for 6 months
Anyway, as said elsewhere, I go back to Matar front when RL issues ease up properly, as honestly, I really cannot be bothered anymore to defend plexes. Caldari now have ripe targets in low-sec but I assume most will sit on Tama/Nourv gate anyway. After all, taking a t1 cruiser for a solo roaming and losing it would be too much of a humiliation
So barring few brave people, I dont really assume you guys to get fights over plexes. I'd wish the whole low-sec would erupt in cruiser vs cruiser fights in plexes or such but I dont see it happening. I think someone said that most of Oicx plexes were taken by 3-4 ships while 4 caldari sat in local for the while time.
So there. Sorry.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Gallactica
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.11 12:02:00 -
[62]
Neo means you moving on Damar, not the Gallente ya plank.
And it does make me smile to see that the Gallente plexers are making it so you cant do anything about it with the momentum that is in full flow at the moment.
One more thing, the Gallente plexers will always get support from the majority of the Gallente side when its needed to shoot those bunkers, even though a lot of us are not into plexing we are working together and backing each other - can you say the same when the time comes where you need assistance from your side?
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EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.11 12:16:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Gallactica Neo means you moving on Damar, not the Gallente ya plank.
And it does make me smile to see that the Gallente plexers are making it so you cant do anything about it with the momentum that is in full flow at the moment.
One more thing, the Gallente plexers will always get support from the majority of the Gallente side when its needed to shoot those bunkers, even though a lot of us are not into plexing we are working together and backing each other - can you say the same when the time comes where you need assistance from your side?
emmmm they did. Or they wouldn't have taken the bunkers in the first place. Look I don't get on with Damar in game (it is only a game, and he don't play the eve I do, its one of the things that make us love eve) but what he has done for the Caldari is nothing short of Fantastic (in the true sense of the word, things he have done are just out of Fantasy). How many alts does he have that log in after DT to run plexes, who knows.. But his work has been amazing.
And I think its a little ****y that the squids and amarrs are abusing him in this way.
As for Gallente taking systems, well done all. However you can not say on one hand "The NPC's are too strong" then celebrate the capturing of systems the next week without saying "You know what, the NPC's were not the problem DAMAR and PERVS were the problem". I do think the NPC's are too hard however by taking system you are just proving that it was possible, what PERVS have been saying for a long long time.
I know WOLFY smacks and we like to kill **** only. However we are also able to say to our enemies "Dude you were awesome!" and Damar, PERVS, the old 22nd were just that. They played their game and as such gave the squids SOMETHING to hold on to, lets be honest and I'm sure PERVS will agree the squid fleets that PvP are pretty fail, their killboard is embarrassing and all they had was the systems.
Now they don't have the systems cause PERVS (who now have Damar as a member, congrats) have gone and done something else and their lead FC is leaving and to be honest failure cascade is imminent. Which is not what WOLFY wants.
Do I agree with what they are doing in mini space, no I think its abusing a game mechanic. However so do we when we close down Nourv or Motsu. So I am not going to condemn them thats for CCP to do.
I will end by saluting them and saying that they are very good pilots who had a goal and set for it. Succeed and then found the rest of their militia wanting. I'm sure we'll see PERVS back, I know if I were them I would be down in mini space already planning to capture back the gallente system.. or packing up and finding something a LOT more fun as they now have to have more alts to defend a 2 front war.
So celebrate GALLENTE! Freedom is coming home and we should celbrate, but lets also salute those brave warriors who have held us back for nearly 6 months without much support from their massive numbers.
EVIL SYNNs CEO WOLFY
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Gallactica
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.11 12:50:00 -
[64]
I agree Evil, what Damar and Pervs (+ friends that left FW) have achieved is nothing short of exceptional to be honest, and previously they did have a hell of a lot of support, questionable methods aside (not getting into that as its been covered enough already) it took a hell of a lot of time and effort to do what they did and they deserve huge kudos for that û I was saying on vent last night that them having there time tied up in other areas has affected things quite a lot and our side has really built up the momentum now to carry things on.
The point I was making, would they still have the same support now as they did previously?
Now, whether or not our side continue on to retake all the systems, or we lose what weve taken inside a week I really donÆt know which way it will got to be honest, time will tell I suppose. What IÆm hoping for is that it averages out and we start to get more smaller scale pvp fights which is what a lot of us are in FW for.
Interesting times and the closet rpÆer in me is just glad that weve got something to cheer about other than our pvp kills, as its great for our side of FW all round û again, how long this will last I donÆt know but lets enjoy it while it does last
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.11 14:50:00 -
[65]
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 11/12/2009 15:05:07
Originally by: Gallactica The point I was making, would they still have the same support now as they did previously?
Alts aside I had approximately 3-8 pilots at my disposal on average* days unless I agreed to FC. That's the support plex defense we got from the thousands of Caldari militia pilots. Hell, even 22nd mocked me on their return for my insistence on defending systems.
Getting a fleet to bust a bunker was never a problem and I doubt has ever been for any militia. After all, despite several Amarr corps condemming our Metropolis offensive, there is always a battleship gang available to bust a bunker and even a cynoed Dread/Carrier occasionally.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
*those on plexing channels, dont of course know how many unknown heroes are out there who I never heard of.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.11 16:31:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Gallactica
The point I was making, would they still have the same support now as they did previously?
Squids outplexed Gallente 22k to 21k (vps) yesterday. The fail cascade alarm may have been a bit premature. We'll see.
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Kora Zilesti
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Posted - 2009.12.11 17:02:00 -
[67]
Thing is, the Caldari can outplex us by ten thousand if they want, it doesn't change anything if they don't get plexes in the systems we've taken. They can float around a million defensive plexes in their home systems and if we keep them out of our 5, we still win.
Which I think is awesome.
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Selous
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.11 18:11:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Neo Gabriel Like I told you, I didn't know the turns npc on friendlies was a feature until a few days ago. I don't like to cheat to win games and I wouldn't use this even if i knew it, and haven't since, and have told people not to do it when we could have done it.
Burning away to 200km can make npcs shoot the enemy as well as anyone else still inside the plex withing range, so that time since he was the only one inside and out of range you guys got fire. Getting range on long range NPCs and caracals is not really a stupid idea.
However, maybe since you guys are OK with abusing game mechanics we could start to use the turn npc on enemy trick more often!
I dont plex for 2 main reasons , its incredibly boring and the few occasions I did , there was obvious `exploits` being used ( cloaked ships etc ).
But the idea of entering a plex that caldari are trying to cap and getting their npc`s to beat up the normally non pvp ships that are capping .... now that sounds like fun
If pervs , damar etc are saying that they are using `exploit` tactics simply to bring the matter to CCP attention ( claiming that they feel really bad , dirty, unwashed etc for being forced to use said tactics )
Then surely its the duty of every gallente militia pilot to turn the npc`s on plex cappers ? ( I think its totally unfair that damar/pervs are the only ones being forced to do the hard/dirty work and we should do our share of it in any way we can)
God forbid that anyone even suggests that damar/pervs are using these tactics for any reason other then to help CCP. Please nobody should even be thinking thats its a convenient story made up after being caught out after using these tactics for several months.
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Ronin Reborn
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.12 05:16:00 -
[69]
Puck Flexing.
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Terephen
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Posted - 2009.12.12 13:58:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Gallactica Just a point, its unfair to label all the Caldari doing this when its just a very very small minority - Theres a lot of good guys in the Caldari who are as miffed as everyone else that this is going in.
Good for them. I quess we have more moral fibre than you lot as i've yet to see Gallente who would be miffled by using the bug to turn Caldari npcs on Caldari militia.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Except that Chatgris said that he's against it right above you. And I know that none of Genstar had even heard of it before you started complaining about it on the forums. In fact, a few months ago I entered a plex that you were defending (in which I flew terribly, and you deservedly destroyed my jaguar) and, right as we were entering you made some comment in local about how we were going to use an NPC exploit. I had no idea what you were talking about, and, stupidly thinking it was you getting snotty about the idea of one person taking the NPC aggression to let others handle the militia, I actually continued to engage you after taking all aggression to prove that I was prepared to play "fair". Which was dumb. And, in hindsight, the very fact that you mentioned this exploit in local shows that you were using it as a mind game.
I'm not going to pretend to be a plexing veteran, but I've never been in a fleet that suggested using this exploit, and I know that most of the people I fly with would be against the idea. Which is what it is. One person in Gallente militia does something you think is wrong, and when it's not publicly condemned by people who weren't even aware that it had happened, you say that Gallente militia as a whole are using exploits. Fine. I'm sure there are tons of Gallente who don't fight fair a lot of the time. And, while I find your general attitude towards plexing frustrating, I've never experienced you doing anything "unfair". But if you did, you know who I'd blame? You. Not the entire Caldari militia.
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Mara Tessidar
Rising Phoenix Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.12 16:11:00 -
[71]
Having never done Faction Warfare before, I am now glad to know that I haven't wasted my time doing other things in the slightest.
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Greg6
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Posted - 2009.12.12 17:26:00 -
[72]
If the code allows for it, if the gm's haven't ruled against it, if it does not violate the terms of service, then it's not an exploit. Now, to be clear, I have never used the "range aggro switch," nor the "standings to fool the NPCs," tricks. But I would do so, guilt free, if I were in a plex that were attacked and I had no other recourse, or if I could be bothered playing the alt game.
We all whine about things we don't like. For myself, I think it's cheesy using alts at all and, IMHO, doing so is "cheating." However, the TOS doesn't forbid it, the gms haven't ruled against it, and the code allows for it. Therefor it's not an exploit. The same is true for either of these two examples.
Folk may not like using range to confuse the npcs. But until CCP bothers to address it specifically, either via code changes, changes in the TOS, or some kind of policy statement, it's not an exploit. It's just a strat you don't like. There are lots of those in the game, for all of us, but don't dress your own personal tastes up in, "exploit," language.
And, again, I'm going to disagree with the notion that the most important reason why Gallente flipped a system was because Damar and his army of alts stopped plexing. That is simply not true and it is insulting to those folk who plexed for *months* trying to make this happen. Without those folk, Damar and his alts could have left Gallente space and the rest of you would have never even known.
That is not to reduce the Caldari's accomplishment in "winning," FW at all. It is to say that the influence of the plexers who would not quit was at least as important in our flipping a systems as was Damar's temporary absence from plexing. In fact, I firmly believe that even if Damar had never left plexing eventually we would have gathered enough folk who were willing to plex to retake systems as that is clearly how the trend was developing. The plexers intel list that Gabriel Darkfire created had made a place where plexers could share intell, discuss strat, help each other out, and, most importantly, let each other know that they were not alone on their plexing island. That is why we flipped the first system. And the next ones came, while Damar and his alts were spotted plexing back in Gallente space, because enough folk in Gall Mill decided to start plexing.
Credit where credit is due. Damar and company achieved an incredible thing in taking all of Gallente space. So too has the Gallente plexers who won systems back. And those plexers achieved their goals not because Damar left space, but because they worked hard for months and wouldn't stop even when their own militia mates ridiculed those efforts. Credit where credit is due, we earned those systems we didn't get them because our opponent just walked away.
And I'm agreeing that we've shown that the NPCs were not the problem, a position I'd made more than once here. :)
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Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.12 19:21:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Greg6 ...even when their own militia mates ridiculed those efforts.
Are you sure about that? I have seen many express their distaste for plexing, but never any "ridicule". I have seen far more thrown at those who choose not to plex than I have seen at those who do.... |
Vixisti
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.12 20:36:00 -
[74]
While it's nice to see Gallente capturing a few systems back from a RP perspecitive, there's still little point in doing it IMO. The taking back of systems hasn't made the squids come out and defend them pvp wise so why do people bother?
Also Greg, the NPC's make little difference to people taking systems or not as most plexing is done with no opposition in the complex, all you have to do is be there. The NPC's do however make it difficult to pvp in plexes and I thought pvp is what FW was all about.
I'm hard pressed to think of a worse game mechanic than the current FW plexing system.
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.12 20:43:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Terephen One person in Gallente militia does something you think is wrong, and when it's not publicly condemned by people who weren't even aware that it had happened, you say that Gallente militia as a whole are using exploits.
What about other example then? Some person in Caldari militia flies a stabbed frigate to defend plexes. That means Damar does it and in fact does nothing except that. Just go back to forums, you'll see it there.
So why not condemm whole Gallente militia? After all, they happily condemm me over other peoples actions...
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.12 21:36:00 -
[76]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 12/12/2009 21:36:22
Originally by: Vixisti
Also Greg, the NPC's make little difference to people taking systems or not as most plexing is done with no opposition in the complex, all you have to do is be there. The NPC's do however make it difficult to pvp in plexes and I thought pvp is what FW was all about.
I'm hard pressed to think of a worse game mechanic than the current FW plexing system.
NPCs really just force you to bring more to the fight than the defenders. It's really a function of EvE game mechanics. For the most part both sides have to think they can win or one of them will disengage. It's all about bringing adequately sized force for the plex and not having the "defender" bail like a little weenie.
For example: it gets boring coming into small compound with a single frig and having the "defender" bail instead of fight even though rats are on his side. Haven't seen much of that lately though. Fewer plexing alts and more Caldari are staying and fighting.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.13 00:22:00 -
[77]
There was reason why gallente did not get systems back when we defended those
Example
Now think how much you need people if there is more people defending
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Noreagaa
Critical Mass Inc. Symbiogenesis
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Posted - 2009.12.13 02:07:00 -
[78]
whats the name of the Caldari militia corp
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Terephen
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Posted - 2009.12.13 05:11:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
What about other example then? Some person in Caldari militia flies a stabbed frigate to defend plexes. That means Damar does it and in fact does nothing except that. Just go back to forums, you'll see it there.
So why not condemm whole Gallente militia? After all, they happily condemm me over other peoples actions...
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
I'm fine with that. Anyone who accuses you of doing something without any evidence is being unfair, an idiot, deliberately provocative, frustrated and ignorant, or any combination of these.
But it's a pretty minor point. Like others have said, I don't really care that much what tactics other people use to get what they want, as long as they're allowed by the rules. It's irritating to fly against people who treat the engagement differently: if I'm out solo roaming it's irritating finding nothing but alts who don't want to engage or baiters trying to blob me. It's not wrong, and I'm not against it, it's just irritating to experience. Same as the standings trick I imagine, though I've never seen it or had to deal with it.
Faction war can be a lot of fun, but the fact that people involved have so many different motives means that it's impossible to get into a situation where everyone's goals match. People get upset about "exploits" because their goal might be to get into solo or small-gang pvp, whereas the people they're fighting might be actually just doing it for the standings, and have no interest in fighting at all. Neither side is wrong, but both parties are likely to get annoyed by the actions of the other group.
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.13 05:36:00 -
[80]
Well you can't really hold up every FW gallente noob to the level of Wolfy, Bacardidesire notwithstanding... can't explain what happen in that plex. But it happens, I could post a bunch of Daniel "Killboard Fodder" Jackson fleet killmails in here too.
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.13 06:20:00 -
[81]
Edited by: chatgris on 13/12/2009 06:20:42
Originally by: Neo Gabriel Well you can't really hold up every FW gallente noob to the level of Wolfy, Bacardidesire notwithstanding... can't explain what happen in that plex. But it happens, I could post a bunch of Daniel "Killboard Fodder" Jackson fleet killmails in here too.
The fight happened over the course of an hour with the "not overpowered at all npcs"
Looking through my history, clet's dessie doesn't do nearly as well when the targets don't trickle in over the course of an hour and get jammed :P
http://gallente.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=3074706
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Vixisti
Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.13 10:35:00 -
[82]
From my experience 90% of FW pvp, if not more, takes place outside of plexes so the mechanics do not really encourage people to fight in them.
To take on a lone caracal in a caldari defensive plex using sensible tactics you need 2 ceptors/af's to draw npc aggro (they get perma jammed) and then a ship to actually kill the caracal who at that point usually decides to warp off.
Might be better if the warp in point to the plex was the actual button so that an engagement would be more likely.
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Gwenol Velsa
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.13 13:31:00 -
[83]
According to Arkady Sadik and No Mauk'Ob from the Fix FW Proposal the use of an off-militia alt to claim a plex with no standings loss is now recognised as a bug.
To knowingly use this bug for gain would be an exploit.
Awaiting official post from CCP on the matter though.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.13 14:13:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Gwenol Velsa According to Arkady Sadik and No Mauk'Ob from the Fix FW Proposal the use of an off-militia alt to claim a plex with no standings loss is now recognised as a bug.
To knowingly use this bug for gain would be an exploit.
Awaiting official post from CCP on the matter though.
Very nice.. but will believe it when I see it.. I'd also like to see CCP return the systems this "bug" was used to gain.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.14 01:03:00 -
[85]
Currently Standing penalty comes along promotions not by taking plex.
There is many ways to prevent alt to get promotions so actually it does not matter if they are in cross militia if you want to keep opposite faction standings high.
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Myth1
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.12.14 10:32:00 -
[86]
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Gallactica
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.14 10:39:00 -
[87]
^^ Me
Wouldnt a simple solution to all this exploit crap be to only allow a plex to be captured once all the NPC's are destroyed? - Standings affected accordingly and would eliminate the noob sp alt being able to run them down, or is that too simple?
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Gwenol Velsa
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.14 10:46:00 -
[88]
Originally by: Bad Messenger Currently Standing penalty comes along promotions not by taking plex.
There is many ways to prevent alt to get promotions so actually it does not matter if they are in cross militia if you want to keep opposite faction standings high.
Not sure you're entirely correct with that, you have a source?
Either way, if I'm reading No Mauk'Ob correctly, the defect that is under investigation is that taking a plex with an cross-faction character results in no standings change at all.
Being as you've stated earlier in the proposal thread that you are only exploiting this bug to force CCP's hand to paying attention then you have succeed. allow me a few quotes :-
Originally by: Damar Rocarion Now, let me state clearly. This tactic is incredibly lame, broken and stupid. And in fact I feel dirty for doing it.
Originally by: Bad Messenger We...made lamest machine in fw history.
Originally by: Damar Rocarion As said, once CCP declares this an exploit/bug, we stop. It is what we want to happpen.
So congratulations, I believe the bug number is 88013 filed on 2009.12.02 19:35:40 by Arkady Sadik.
But if you're stating that you know of "ways to prevent alt to get promotions" then it sounds to me as if you are deliberately looking for ways to exploit the game mechanics and aren't interested in CCP's bug fixes at all...
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.14 13:59:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Gwenol Velsa
Originally by: Bad Messenger Currently Standing penalty comes along promotions not by taking plex.
There is many ways to prevent alt to get promotions so actually it does not matter if they are in cross militia if you want to keep opposite faction standings high.
Not sure you're entirely correct with that, you have a source?
Either way, if I'm reading No Mauk'Ob correctly, the defect that is under investigation is that taking a plex with an cross-faction character results in no standings change at all.
Being as you've stated earlier in the proposal thread that you are only exploiting this bug to force CCP's hand to paying attention then you have succeed. allow me a few quotes :-
Originally by: Damar Rocarion Now, let me state clearly. This tactic is incredibly lame, broken and stupid. And in fact I feel dirty for doing it.
Originally by: Bad Messenger We...made lamest machine in fw history.
Originally by: Damar Rocarion As said, once CCP declares this an exploit/bug, we stop. It is what we want to happpen.
So congratulations, I believe the bug number is 88013 filed on 2009.12.02 19:35:40 by Arkady Sadik.
But if you're stating that you know of "ways to prevent alt to get promotions" then it sounds to me as if you are deliberately looking for ways to exploit the game mechanics and aren't interested in CCP's bug fixes at all...
Of course he's just doing it to grief. He's just using the excuse that he's trying to get CCP's attention because it make him sound legit somewhere in his mind.
I'm pretty certain they are still abusing this exploit even today. I was logged on for a bit this morning and saw reports in Militia channel that Caldri were still plexing in Minmatar space.
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.14 15:13:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Ralnik I'm pretty certain they are still abusing this exploit even today. I was logged on for a bit this morning and saw reports in Militia channel that Caldri were still plexing in Minmatar space.
Has CCP said anywhere officially yet that it's an exploit/bug? If yes, please link.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Rick Wensbane
Gallente Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.14 18:25:00 -
[91]
Originally by: Gwenol Velsa According to Arkady Sadik and No Mauk'Ob from the Fix FW Proposal the use of an off-militia alt to claim a plex with no standings loss is now recognised as a bug.
To knowingly use this bug for gain would be an exploit.
You're joking, right? Cause I caught two more Caldari alts doing this around Dal (in Incursus, of all things!), and didn't even bother reporting them...
Oh, and yes, I did chase them off.
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.12.14 19:07:00 -
[92]
Originally by: Rick Wensbane
Originally by: Gwenol Velsa According to Arkady Sadik and No Mauk'Ob from the Fix FW Proposal the use of an off-militia alt to claim a plex with no standings loss is now recognised as a bug.
You're joking, right? Cause I caught two more Caldari alts doing this around Dal (in Incursus, of all things!), and didn't even bother reporting them...
You can still file a bug report with names/system/time etc. |
Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient
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Posted - 2009.12.14 22:33:00 -
[93]
Edited by: Arkady Sadik on 14/12/2009 22:34:19
Originally by: Rick Wensbane
Originally by: Gwenol Velsa According to Arkady Sadik and No Mauk'Ob from the Fix FW Proposal the use of an off-militia alt to claim a plex with no standings loss is now recognised as a bug.
To knowingly use this bug for gain would be an exploit.
You're joking, right? Cause I caught two more Caldari alts doing this around Dal (in Incursus, of all things!), and didn't even bother reporting them...
Oh, and yes, I did chase them off.
He's not. I got a reply to my bug report #88013 stating that this was an unknown bug, and is now attached to a defect. Please note that the bug is that the plexer in question does not receive a standings boost, which in turn would reduce his Minmatar standing, which in turn would make the ability to plex unmolested by NPCs last only a very short time. There has been a lot of confusion with people reporting that NPCs do not shoot - this is, in itself, not considered a bug, so petitioning this or bug reporting it will not give a response. Make sure you point out that the bug is the lack of standing loss.
The definition of an "exploit" is as follows:
Quote: You may not exploit any bug in EVE Online to gain an unfair advantage over other players. You may not communicate the existence of any exploitable bug to others directly or through a public forum. Bugs should be reported through the bug reporting tool on our website.
(Technically, we all violated the TOS because we explained the bug in various threads ;-))
I'm afraid we will not see a big news post about this being an exploit. Only very few bugs whose abuse is considered an exploit get so much attention. Hence, please do petition the abuse of this bug whenever you see it (feel free to point to the bug number above).
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Gwenol Velsa
Minmatar Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2009.12.14 23:08:00 -
[94]
So what's it to be Damar? are you going to accept Arkady's word for it? petition CCP directly for an explanation of what bug #88013 is? stick by your word?
Or are you going to continue using the excuse of no "official" statement to keep capping plexes with no-loss alts?
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BacardiDesire
Caldari The 8th Order
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Posted - 2009.12.15 11:30:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Bad Messenger There was reason why gallente did not get systems back when we defended those
Example
Now think how much you need people if there is more people defending
09:47 - 10:46
dont you think all those kills happend in 1 hour instead of a gang warpin into him ;)? i was there i died allone so did all the others tr bringing some straight facts to the forums, looks better ;) all i want is some cake. |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.15 11:40:00 -
[96]
Originally by: BacardiDesire
Originally by: Bad Messenger There was reason why gallente did not get systems back when we defended those
Example
Now think how much you need people if there is more people defending
09:47 - 10:46
dont you think all those kills happend in 1 hour instead of a gang warpin into him ;)? i was there i died allone so did all the others tr bringing some straight facts to the forums, looks better ;)
Why didn't you gang warp then ?
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Val Erian
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.12.15 19:22:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Gallactica ^^ Me
Wouldnt a simple solution to all this exploit crap be to only allow a plex to be captured once all the NPC's are destroyed? - Standings affected accordingly and would eliminate the noob sp alt being able to run them down, or is that too simple?
Ok but what about t1 frigs 'defending' if all rats to be killed , np. BUt there would have to be a change on the defensive side.
I've alwasy liked the propsal that FP formerly of FOOM put forth last year. That to run timer in plex you need correct hull size. IE frig/dessie for minor, Cruiser for medium, BC for major. Make si tmore interesting all around .
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Gabriel Darkefyre
Minmatar Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.15 21:04:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Val Erian Edited by: Val Erian on 15/12/2009 19:52:06 Edited by: Val Erian on 15/12/2009 19:51:03
Originally by: Gallactica ^^ Me
Wouldnt a simple solution to all this exploit crap be to only allow a plex to be captured once all the NPC's are destroyed? - Standings affected accordingly and would eliminate the noob sp alt being able to run them down, or is that too simple?
Ok but what about t1 frigs 'defending' , there would have to be a change on the defensive side.
I've alwasy liked the propsal that FP formerly of FOOM put forth last year. That to run timer in plex you need correct hull size. IE frig/dessie for minor, Cruiser for medium, BC for major. Makes it more interesting all around .
An Idea for how to balance out Defensive and Offensive Plexing would be to put NPC's of Both Factions into the plexes and require the destruction of all the Opposing NPC's to Capture or Defend the Plex. After all, what's the point of Defensive plexing if there isn't something to defend against?
As an interesting Twist, have a pair of timers on the plex which will run while any FW Player of one of the Opposed Factions is inside. If the player can't kill all the NPC's before the timer runs out for his side, the Opposing NPC's respawn... At the next highest Level, thus allowing more ships entry into the plex but having tougher NPC's to deal with.
Each side would have their own timer, so if the enemy go in and escalate a plex to the next level, you'd be able to get in with a Bigger ship, however the NPC's you'd have to eliminate would still be of the original level, that way, their failure to take the plex as it originally stood would make life easier for you.
The problem would be that if the NPC's were coded to shoot at each other as well as enemy players then plexes would quickly become Lag Central. ---------------
Image from Crumplecorn's DesuSigs |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.15 21:17:00 -
[99]
Edited by: X Gallentius on 15/12/2009 21:18:52 Actually, not a bad idea. How's this to keep NPCs from killing each other? At the three minute mark the NPC spawns - against whichever side has the advantage on the timer. If the pilots trying to cap the plex get run out, then those NPCs warp away when the timer hits zero (when it resets to the maximum time). Then, when the timer hits three minuts on the other side, then the other set of NPCs warps in.
Gallente Win (10+ mins)--- Caldari NPCs ---Gallente +3 --- No NPCs ---- NPCs warp away +0 --- No NPCs --- Caldari +3 ---- Gallente NPCs --- Caldari Win (10+ mins)
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olzi
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.15 21:22:00 -
[100]
CCP can't handle coding a single timer without all sort of bugs, and you want to add another one with complex spawn mechanics ?
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.15 21:23:00 -
[101]
Originally by: olzi CCP can't handle coding a single timer without all sort of bugs, and you want to add another one with complex spawn mechanics ?
Yeah my bad. Sorry.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.15 21:56:00 -
[102]
Edited by: Bad Messenger on 15/12/2009 21:55:53 yea, make defending so hard now when gallente has to defend, i approve all changes that makes impossible defending more impossible so all systems flip and flop every day !
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.17 15:42:00 -
[103]
Originally by: Greg6 Folk may not like using range to confuse the npcs. But until CCP bothers to address it specifically, either via code changes, changes in the TOS, or some kind of policy statement, it's not an exploit.
Having witnessed Val Erian this day alone triggering npc aggro to Caldari militia (and at least on one other occasion trying it) and mocking Caldari militia people for it (who are not all, unlike legend says, my alts) I can now happily say that when taking offensive plexes, this will likely become our standard tactic and as such we turn faction war into even more lame alt/bug fest than it already is.
Of course Gallentes only get damped but I assume this annoys them well enough. Let's see if we get another "Caldari exploit" thread out of it. So give big applause to Val, he sure deserves it.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
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Posted - 2009.12.17 16:22:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Droog 1 on 17/12/2009 16:23:30
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Greg6 Folk may not like using range to confuse the npcs. But until CCP bothers to address it specifically, either via code changes, changes in the TOS, or some kind of policy statement, it's not an exploit.
Having witnessed Val Erian this day alone triggering npc aggro to Caldari militia (and at least on one other occasion trying it) and mocking Caldari militia people for it (who are not all, unlike legend says, my alts)]
Have CCP said this is an exploit? Did you file a bug report? afaik CCP have not said this is an exploit so it is working as intended - Much like your plexing in Minmatar space.
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
I can now happily say that when taking offensive plexes, this will likely become our standard tactic and as such we turn faction war into even more lame alt/bug fest than it already is.
I don't see why anyone wouldn't use this tactic and it's not like you are adverse to being lame. You did your best to turn it into an alt/bugfest because nobody would vote for you in the CSM election. Enjoy your game!
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
So give big applause to Val, he sure deserves it.
Baaaaaw Val made me do it.
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Gallactica
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.17 17:16:00 -
[105]
Please god no more of this he did / she did / they did crap anymore!
Its like listening to a stuck record over and over again - If CCP havnt noticed that things need changing with all the chest beating / whinging / beatching / finger pointing / petitioning etc now then they never will.
Live with how it is and get on with it with the faint hope that CCP do something or get the F*** out of FW and go do something else instead.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.17 17:28:00 -
[106]
Originally by: Droog 1
Have CCP said this is an exploit? Did you file a bug report? afaik CCP have not said this is an exploit so it is working as intended - Much like your plexing in Minmatar space.
There is difference in those, CCP has said about standing bug that it is working as intended, but i doubt CCP has said same about that agro exploit.
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Mithril Ryder
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Posted - 2009.12.17 22:32:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:21:04 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:19:32 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 10/12/2009 11:17:25
Originally by: Juren Coda Shame on the Caldari militia pilots who exploit this bug on mass scale at the moment. There will be NO glory in claiming you took all minmatar space using this exploit.
I'll answer this one: Nobody (this is very important) cared about our gaming experience and enjoyment when we were loudly protesting Gallentes use of bugs, such as standings exploit or turning NPCs to fire upon Caldari militia members. I actually seem to recall you ridiculing us when we protested when in combat member of your fleet turned NPCs on us.
Nennamaila resident recently confessed that in fight vs me and Bad Messenger that "Yes, Amon Dei indeed confessed he used the exploit but I didnt know about it" (suffice to say I dont believe the last part at all). Did he apologise, show remorse, say it was lame? Of course not.
So tell me. Why should we listen to people who used the bugs/exploits initially and did not find it shameful in the least? How they can or even dare say "two wrongs dont make right?"
And frankly i'm getting bored now in seeing all the same faces in the front, using same exploits (Hello Val, thanks for using npc bug in Eugales two days ago to turn npcs on Caldari Maller) and being a crutch for whole militia. So go ahead and plex, I wont be there to stop you as I return to Matar front (as PERVS member). It will be up to others to get off their backsides.
To use the old phrase, "Cat is away, mice and rats are running around" basicly means that Caldari/Gallente front is ripe for small gang pvp action. I assume majority of the militia will not care (as we know, plexing gives you STD) but actually, I learned it by now and can actually look at it quite stress free.
Once we get bored with Matar front, we can return to our front and do what is necessary.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
You never had any proof that anyone got the NPCs to shoot at you Damar and you know that.
You say that they say that someone else said? Go play telephone with your mommy, not here.
What evidence do you have that the people complaining about exploits knowingly and willfully used exploits themselves?
I'm bored of your hyperbole and baseless claims Damar, I'm fairly sure everyone else has as well. You mean its more profitable for you to exploit game mechanics yourself when your side is winning?
Damar, you need to stop writing reality checks, they keep bouncing.
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Mithril Ryder
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Posted - 2009.12.17 23:12:00 -
[108]
Edited by: Mithril Ryder on 17/12/2009 23:12:54 Dupe post, mods please remove
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Val Erian
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.12.17 23:53:00 -
[109]
Originally by: Damar Rocarion
Originally by: Greg6 Folk may not like using range to confuse the npcs. But until CCP bothers to address it specifically, either via code changes, changes in the TOS, or some kind of policy statement, it's not an exploit.
Having witnessed Val Erian this day alone triggering npc aggro to Caldari militia (and at least on one other occasion trying it) and mocking Caldari militia people for it (who are not all, unlike legend says, my alts) I can now happily say that when taking offensive plexes, this will likely become our standard tactic and as such we turn faction war into even more lame alt/bug fest than it already is.
Of course Gallentes only get damped but I assume this annoys them well enough. Let's see if we get another "Caldari exploit" thread out of it. So give big applause to Val, he sure deserves it.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
Really? Since it was Yuri Intaki in local plex and not Damar I guess this is really your alt. THough I talked to another Caldari about it and he says its two people. I guess you must Account Share then, which is also against the EULA
Second in plex my comet was being chased by a wt Crusader. HE moved away from me. you will never beleive it was inadvertent and due to bug.. But you seek excuses to do what your going to do anyway meh. Its mainly you and your tactics that makes FW so lame, I think we could have a vote on it. BTW guess your exploits in minnie space arent workng so welcome back.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.18 01:04:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Ralnik on 18/12/2009 01:04:12 I'm taking bets on how long it will be before Damar runs off to go grief elsewhere. He has pretty much hit a brick wall in Minmatar space and his little alts can't keep up with what is being undone, despite his use of standing mechanics exploits.
Minmatar Militia have stepped it up and answered the call. We have recaptured 5 systems and stopped the capture of Brin and de-contested many system that were under attack.
I think at this point Damar would need about 50 alt to stop what is happening. Which means I'm pretty sure he will soon decide that he has lost his chance to achieve what ever it was he thought he could get away with.
I'm sure he's already thinking up some other way to be lame, but only time will tell. I'm betting the Amarr won't like him much after the realize what he's started in the Minmatar Militia.
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kahhhhhnn
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Posted - 2009.12.18 08:23:00 -
[111]
Thank god we've got Daniel jackson or we wouldn't have a system left.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.18 08:26:00 -
[112]
Originally by: kahhhhhnn Thank god we've got Daniel jackson or we wouldn't have a system left.
^^ Guess who's alt this is.
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Neo Gabriel
Gallente Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.18 08:37:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Neo Gabriel on 18/12/2009 08:38:10 Well I guess now since we can abuse any game mechanic until CCP says it's an exploit we will be "abusing" "working as intended" game mechanics in plexes all the time now.
Also, Thank God for Daniel Jackson and friends for padding our kill boards and making plexing fun.
Cya on the Battlefield! Luminaire General Neo Gabriel
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 09:07:00 -
[114]
Originally by: Val Erian
Really? Since it was Yuri Intaki in local plex and not Damar I guess this is really your alt. THough I talked to another Caldari about it and he says its two people, as he has heard you both on voice. Funny , I guess you must Account Share then, which is against the EULA.
Second , in plex my comet was there with wt Crusader. HE moved away from me... You will never believe the circumstances ofc .
So thxs Damar for confirming RE: Yuri ..
But, really doesnt matter you always seek reason to do what your were planning to do anyway.
BTW guess your selfless use of alts in minnie space isn't workng out as planned, so welcome back. I'm sure we'll all have a blast.
I will confirm that Val Erian used the NPC bug in a Caldari plex. The timer was bugged, so he warped in after we had "captured" it and was coming after me. I moved away to get him in range of NPCs, then moved back to attack. At this point, Val was the sole target. He then used the bug to escape death at my hands - I had him in structure, but just couldn't take any more missile fire and had to warp out.
Yuri and Damar both know because I mentioned this in a chat channel we all share.
Now, I wouldn't mind someone using this, really, except that it's apparently only wrong when the Caldari do it. When the Froggies use it, it's justified for some reason. --- |
Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 09:09:00 -
[115]
I do not know Damar or PERVS too well. I have no history with them. But excluding the excessive use of alts and this standings bug - I have to say they show how FW could be if it was working well.
I have never seen a group fight tooth and nail for every single plex like they do. The dedication is quite impressive. You go to a plex, and you know you get a response. There is a fight over the plex as if it was the last bastion of hope for either side.
If plexes could inspire similar work from other groups, encouraging more such small skirmish engagements, that would make FW really, really enjoyable.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 11:49:00 -
[116]
Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 18/12/2009 01:04:12 I'm taking bets on how long it will be before Damar runs off to go grief elsewhere. He has pretty much hit a brick wall in Minmatar space and his little alts can't keep up with what is being undone, despite his use of standing mechanics exploits.
Minmatar Militia have stepped it up and answered the call. We have recaptured 5 systems and stopped the capture of Brin and de-contested many system that were under attack.
I think at this point Damar would need about 50 alt to stop what is happening. Which means I'm pretty sure he will soon decide that he has lost his chance to achieve what ever it was he thought he could get away with.
I'm sure he's already thinking up some other way to be lame, but only time will tell. I'm betting the Amarr won't like him much after the realize what he's started in the Minmatar Militia.
There is nothing to bet for, we already 'ran' to grief else where.
I do not see how we hit the brick wall, if there was wall it was quite thin.
You sure captured systems back and rescued Brin, but as our original plan was we just make systems vulnerable and Amarr do what they ever want with those.
But as it is end of the year and some people has some irl things with their families, we left back to caldari space and most of us do something else than play eve.
I hope CCP got some new ideas how to improve fw.
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Droog 1
Black Rise Inbreds
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 11:49:00 -
[117]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Droog 1
Have CCP said this is an exploit? Did you file a bug report? afaik CCP have not said this is an exploit so it is working as intended - Much like your plexing in Minmatar space.
There is difference in those, CCP has said about standing bug that it is working as intended, but i doubt CCP has said same about that agro exploit.
I'm sure Damarr has a few GM replys from his petitions of this so called aggro 'bug' he could show you. You should bug report it/petition and see what answer CCP give you.
Maybe some people are transferring aggro to 'bring it to CCPs attention' in the same way you did when you decided to plex with alts in Minmattar space. After all, you did claim that your intentions behind using alts and abusing their standings was to highlight a problem to CCP. So it's pretty much the same thing. Right?
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:56:00 -
[118]
Originally by: Bad Messenger There is nothing to bet for, we already 'ran' to grief else where.
Comfirming this. Order was given to move assets back to "you know which system" and we did this in couple of hours. Overall, in Minmatar space I lost a single griffin and navy hookbill and you can check killboard for some of the supposed "brick wall" which we faced without much trouble.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier Genera
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 12:20:00 -
[119]
Originally by: Droog 1
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: Droog 1
Have CCP said this is an exploit? Did you file a bug report? afaik CCP have not said this is an exploit so it is working as intended - Much like your plexing in Minmatar space.
There is difference in those, CCP has said about standing bug that it is working as intended, but i doubt CCP has said same about that agro exploit.
I'm sure Damarr has a few GM replys from his petitions of this so called aggro 'bug' he could show you. You should bug report it/petition and see what answer CCP give you.
Maybe some people are transferring aggro to 'bring it to CCPs attention' in the same way you did when you decided to plex with alts in Minmattar space. After all, you did claim that your intentions behind using alts and abusing their standings was to highlight a problem to CCP. So it's pretty much the same thing. Right?
No it is not a same thing.
CCP responded to my petition about transferring agro bug that they could not reproduce it so they could not say much about it. They were asking pictures or videos about it so they could look it further but i did not have one on my hands at that moment.
But about standing bug they clearly responded that our plan did not contain any exploit and we are free to use it.
So difference is that another is not a bug it is working as intended but another clearly is.
But as you are gallente supported you will support Val to the bitter end. Val Erian has always been one of the top bug users in fw history, he can play better than many other gallente in normal ways but he just want to use buggs when things gets out of his hands and he cannot beat enemy by normal methods.
Turning agro is exploit if he get free loot after npc has killed caldari player.
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.18 12:48:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Bad Messenger Turning agro is exploit if he get free loot after npc has killed caldari player.
He didn't manage to kill me, I'm afraid. But I would have had him if he hadn't pulled the exploit. Oh well.
Welcome back, BTW --- |
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Cromwell Savage
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.18 13:33:00 -
[121]
Edited by: Cromwell Savage on 18/12/2009 13:34:25
Originally by: Bad Messenger
So difference is that another is not a bug it is working as intended but another clearly is.
Apparently not. For if CCP cannot reproduce it themselves and are still asking for in-game footage/pics then it is still clearly under investigation to even determine if it is an exploit or not. Until then...
Not defending it's use, but you guys of all complaining about others manipulating game mechanics is laughable. I've seen the so-called "aggro-bug" once and it caught us by surprise as much as it did the squids... |
Val Erian
Gallente Azure Horizon Federate Militia
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Posted - 2009.12.18 14:07:00 -
[122]
Originally by: Vikarion
Originally by: Val Erian
Really? Since it was Yuri Intaki in local plex and not Damar I guess this is really your alt. THough I talked to another Caldari about it and he says its two people, as he has heard you both on voice. Funny , I guess you must Account Share then, which is against the EULA.
Second , in plex my comet was there with wt Crusader. HE moved away from me... You will never believe the circumstances ofc .
So thxs Damar for confirming RE: Yuri ..
But, really doesnt matter you always seek reason to do what your were planning to do anyway.
BTW guess your selfless use of alts in minnie space isn't workng out as planned, so welcome back. I'm sure we'll all have a blast.
I will confirm that Val Erian used the NPC bug in a Caldari plex. The timer was bugged, so he warped in after we had "captured" it and was coming after me. I moved away to get him in range of NPCs, then moved back to attack. At this point, Val was the sole target. He then used the bug to escape death at my hands - I had him in structure, but just couldn't take any more missile fire and had to warp out.
Yuri and Damar both know because I mentioned this in a chat channel we all share.
Now, I wouldn't mind someone using this, really, except that it's apparently only wrong when the Caldari do it. When the Froggies use it, it's justified for some reason.
No more after this....But clearly you are clueless....so in a plex when you are attacked, you must stay within a certain radius of npc or you are abusing 'bug' .
So when your crusader is within 3k of me I must stay within range of npc. Your ship was within 3-10 km of mine the whole time. This is Using 'aggro bug"?
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 14:28:00 -
[123]
Pardon me for interrupting, but does anyone have a bug-report ID related to this "NPC vs. Friendly" bug?
Preferably one that has reproduction steps for CCPs benefit should they decide to peruse my data-gathering thread.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.18 15:10:00 -
[124]
Vikarion and Yuri have been using the bug themselves. -----
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Yuri Intaki
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Posted - 2009.12.18 16:50:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Vikarion and Yuri have been using the bug themselves.
Fearsome State Dai Dojo tactic also know as Caldari npc shooting it's supposed target...
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Nephilim Xeno
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 17:51:00 -
[126]
Originally by: Ralnik Edited by: Ralnik on 18/12/2009 01:04:12 I'm taking bets on how long it will be before Damar runs off to go grief elsewhere. He has pretty much hit a brick wall in Minmatar space and his little alts can't keep up with what is being undone, despite his use of standing mechanics exploits.
Minmatar Militia have stepped it up and answered the call. We have recaptured 5 systems and stopped the capture of Brin and de-contested many system that were under attack.
I think at this point Damar would need about 50 alt to stop what is happening. Which means I'm pretty sure he will soon decide that he has lost his chance to achieve what ever it was he thought he could get away with.
I'm sure he's already thinking up some other way to be lame, but only time will tell. I'm betting the Amarr won't like him much after the realize what he's started in the Minmatar Militia.
all this proves is just that the minmatar are still by far the best in using loopholes to cap plexes than anyone else.
abusing the standing loophole is very similar to the speedtanking loophole that has been abused by minmatar on large scale since quantum rise. in both cases a quite cheaply fitted t1 frig can take any sized plex pretty much afk unless there is an actual hostile player in the system to kill or chase off the speedtanker.
even if all of the minmatar systems would have been capped at some point, everyone on the amarr side knew that it is absolutly impossible to defend them against the speedtanking minmatar hordes.
i am amazed how you can still point fingers on others while claiming that your loophole is the only legit one.
what all this has clearly proved is that FW is not about fighting anymore, but about who is able to exploit loopholes more efficiently and has more people using those loopholes.
the whole concept of plex capturing is just wrong but this is probably not the place to discuss that.
i still think to freeze occupancy mechanics and reset occupancy until FW 2.0 is ready would be the best immediate fix atm.
sadly CCP still did not respond to any threads concerning this issue.
and i guess now that the minmtar have realized how efficienty they can exploit you are not in a hurry to get it fixed anymore, right ?
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.18 18:02:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Nephilim Xeno Stuff
Yet PERVS abuse of the standing bug, the NPC friendly aggro bug and the timer bug is acceptable? Seems like all's fair in love and war but only when you're winning. -----
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Ralnik
Mutineers
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 18:08:00 -
[128]
Edited by: Ralnik on 18/12/2009 18:08:13
Originally by: Nephilim Xeno
all this proves is just that the minmatar are still by far the best....
The guy that is one of the most notorious users of neutral logistics alts in FW, speaks out on something he claims is unfair? Please say it's not true.
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Lebastor
Minmatar Hidden Agenda
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Posted - 2009.12.18 18:22:00 -
[129]
If speedtanking is such a neat trick, why does the Amarr still hold Siseide and Lantorn after such a long time? Why?
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.18 19:35:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Veshta Yoshida on 18/12/2009 19:39:24
Originally by: Lebastor If speedtanking is such a neat trick, why does the Amarr still hold Siseide and Lantorn after such a long time? Why?
Because of yet another flaw with FW .. the DT-Shuffle.
Amarr have more dedicated plexers available immediately after DT than the Shakorites.
Support this and show CCP that even we passionate few have lost our patience.
Don't be afraid to add your issue if it is not already mentioned, note some are intentionally vague to cover multiple issues.
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kahhhhhnn
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Posted - 2009.12.18 19:44:00 -
[131]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: kahhhhhnn Thank god we've got Daniel jackson or we wouldn't have a system left.
^^ Guess who's alt this is.
Please inform all of us?
Who's alt am I?
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.18 19:54:00 -
[132]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Vikarion and Yuri have been using the bug themselves.
Like hell we have. We weren't even inside the plex when we killed Rocco, so we didn't pull it.
First time I saw it used was by your friend Val, whom I've seen you fly with, right after you told me that I shouldn't fly with Yuri because he pulls it.
Well, I've never seen Yuri pull it, but your buddies have. I kinda have to believe the evidence of my own two eyes. --- |
X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 20:09:00 -
[133]
Originally by: Vikarion Well, I've never seen Yuri pull it, but your buddies have. I kinda have to believe the evidence of my own two eyes.
I don't see why CCP can't reproduce this bug. Half the time it happened to me while raiding FW missions. The stealth bombers would just continue to move away until the Feds started shooting. Happened all the time and the WTs knew what was going on too.
Solution? Warp out and then back again. No big deal.
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 21:05:00 -
[134]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: Vikarion Well, I've never seen Yuri pull it, but your buddies have. I kinda have to believe the evidence of my own two eyes.
I don't see why CCP can't reproduce this bug. Half the time it happened to me while raiding FW missions. The stealth bombers would just continue to move away until the Feds started shooting. Happened all the time and the WTs knew what was going on too.
Solution? Warp out and then back again. No big deal.
I'm not complaining. It's just hypocritical of the Feds to call the CalMil exploiters when they do the same. The bug is so easy to cause that it's bound to happen. --- |
Ralnik
Mutineers
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 21:23:00 -
[135]
Originally by: Lebastor If speedtanking is such a neat trick, why does the Amarr still hold Siseide and Lantorn after such a long time? Why?
They also forget to mention, that they can also do the same thing. I've seen many Interceptors taking all the aggro for their little plex gangs. Just because they like to gang up with 6 guys to capture a single plex, doesn't mean they "have too".
They just like to complain about it a lot. It's the same way with missions.. 90% of Amarr FW mission running roam around in stealth bombers with vigils/executioners speed tanking all the aggro.
If there is anyone that has a right to complain, it's the Gallente. As they get perma jamed half the time.
btw.. you never hear Amarr crying about how easy Minmatar's high sec is, with Faction navy's and their ultra l33t target painters for EW. Meanwhile Minmatar have to deal with getting neuted non stop in from Amarr's faction navy.
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 21:28:00 -
[136]
Originally by: Vikarion I'm not complaining. It's just hypocritical of the Feds to call the CalMil exploiters when they do the same. The bug is so easy to cause that it's bound to happen.
The only reason I see the Caldari doing it to me is because they're my opponent. I'm sure it happens the other way around too.
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Nephilim Xeno
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 22:32:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Ralnik
Originally by: Lebastor If speedtanking is such a neat trick, why does the Amarr still hold Siseide and Lantorn after such a long time? Why?
They also forget to mention, that they can also do the same thing. I've seen many Interceptors taking all the aggro for their little plex gangs. Just because they like to gang up with 6 guys to capture a single plex, doesn't mean they "have too".
They just like to complain about it a lot. It's the same way with missions.. 90% of Amarr FW mission running roam around in stealth bombers with vigils/executioners speed tanking all the aggro.
If there is anyone that has a right to complain, it's the Gallente. As they get perma jamed half the time.
btw.. you never hear Amarr crying about how easy Minmatar's high sec is, with Faction navy's and their ultra l33t target painters for EW. Meanwhile Minmatar have to deal with getting neuted non stop in from Amarr's faction navy.
the big difference is that you need at least 2 people or 2 accounts to do what minmatar can easily do solo, also if you have to use 2 accounts and one new spawn agresses the one at the time he will have to warp out and get back in
all that increases the amount of effort and time needed to cap a plex a lot compared to the fact that any noob in a vigil can speedtank any amarr plex easily solo
similar situation with missions. while amarr need at least 2 players/accounts to do the missions in a stealth bomber the minmtar can easly speedtank the mission with a single SB while still being able to kill the target easily
and you claim that amarr high sec navy is better than the minmtar one? lol it's probably the one that can be tanked far easier than any other navy
and the reason for holding siseide and lantorn so long has already been given
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Ralnik
Mutineers
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 22:54:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Nephilim Xeno
the big difference is that you need at least 2 people or 2 accounts to do what minmatar can easily do solo, also if you have to use 2 accounts and one new spawn agresses the one at the time he will have to warp out and get back in
all that increases the amount of effort and time needed to cap a plex a lot compared to the fact that any noob in a vigil can speedtank any amarr plex easily solo
similar situation with missions. while amarr need at least 2 players/accounts to do the missions in a stealth bomber the minmtar can easly speedtank the mission with a single SB while still being able to kill the target easily
and you claim that amarr high sec navy is better than the minmtar one? lol it's probably the one that can be tanked far easier than any other navy
and the reason for holding siseide and lantorn so long has already been given
Well maybe I dunno the tricks of the trade, because I've never been a big plexer, but I've never been able to solo a major or a med just by speed tanking. There are always frigs to deal with and the frigs will still tear you up.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but it's not as easy as you make it out to sound. When I've done majors, it's always been the typical speedy alt takes aggro and burns away while the other sits on the button.
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
|
Posted - 2009.12.18 23:01:00 -
[139]
With winter upon us, I am worried for all these fingers being pointed .. they are bound freeze and fall off!
The whole thing is broken, accept and move on. There is still combat to be had thank Goddess.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.19 06:16:00 -
[140]
Originally by: X Gallentius
Originally by: Vikarion Well, I've never seen Yuri pull it, but your buddies have. I kinda have to believe the evidence of my own two eyes.
I don't see why CCP can't reproduce this bug. Half the time it happened to me while raiding FW missions. The stealth bombers would just continue to move away until the Feds started shooting. Happened all the time and the WTs knew what was going on too.
Solution? Warp out and then back again. No big deal.
It is dig deal for defender if there is enemy fleet camping plex gate, warping off lets enemy to go freely in plex and prevent defender to come back in. And timer stops running and enemy gets more time etc...
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:29:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Bad Messenger It is dig deal for defender if there is enemy fleet camping plex gate, warping off lets enemy to go freely in plex and prevent defender to come back in. And timer stops running and enemy gets more time etc...
Why would you care? According to you, you guys aren't plexing anymore. -----
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Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
|
Posted - 2009.12.19 11:39:00 -
[142]
The hypocrisy in this thread is laughable. All exploits are created equal, but some exploits are more equal than others...
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
|
Posted - 2009.12.19 11:47:00 -
[143]
Originally by: Vincent Death The hypocrisy in this thread is laughable. All exploits are created equal, but some exploits are more equal than others...
Says the man whose militia's victory was built entirely upon the efforts of one corporation using those exploits, who continued to use them in a different theatre of battle, who admitted to their use and had the gall to claim that it was "for the good of FW". It's hilarious you have the cheek to complain about exploits and hypocrisy when your side has been the one that benefited from their use for six whole months. -----
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Vincent Death
Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development
|
Posted - 2009.12.19 12:03:00 -
[144]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Vincent Death The hypocrisy in this thread is laughable. All exploits are created equal, but some exploits are more equal than others...
Says the man whose militia's victory was built entirely upon the efforts of one corporation using those exploits, who continued to use them in a different theatre of battle, who admitted to their use and had the gall to claim that it was "for the good of FW". It's hilarious you have the cheek to complain about exploits and hypocrisy when your side has been the one that benefited from their use for six whole months.
I've never complained about any exploits, actually. I just find it funny how much of a froth you guys get worked up into when your own people do exactly the same things without any criticism. Quite frankly I think anything goes that isn't declared illegal by CCP.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
|
Posted - 2009.12.19 12:20:00 -
[145]
Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 12:24:54
Originally by: Vincent Death I've never complained about any exploits, actually. I just find it funny how much of a froth you guys get worked up into when your own people do exactly the same things without any criticism. Quite frankly I think anything goes that isn't declared illegal by CCP.
The reclamation of Gallente space after PERVS left was done legally - despite the impediment of the standard Caldari militia, we were able to take most of Gallente space into contested and reclaim some systems with about two week's worth of work. Now, in a single day, despite a direct promise from the leader of PERVS himself, threats were made by the same person against every Gallente militia member, every previously contested system in both Gallente and Caldari space apart from about five exceptions has gone decontested and most of the Gallente-owned systems are now glowing hot.
This is not possible via normal means. -----
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:20:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Says the man whose militia's victory was built entirely upon the efforts of one corporation using those exploits, who continued to use them in a different theatre of battle, who admitted to their use and had the gall to claim that it was "for the good of FW". It's hilarious you have the cheek to complain about exploits and hypocrisy when your side has been the one that benefited from their use for six whole months.
The militia's victory was built upon the work of the 22nd Black Rise and PERVS taking plexes according to the rules. If you think defensive plexing with alts is against the rules, well, take it up with CCP. The standings bug wasn't used by the 22nd and PERVS to take the systems, though Gallente used it to try to stop them/take them back. --- |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:26:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Vikarion The militia's victory was built upon the work of the 22nd Black Rise and PERVS taking plexes according to the rules. If you think defensive plexing with alts is against the rules, well, take it up with CCP. The standings bug wasn't used by the 22nd and PERVS to take the systems, though Gallente used it to try to stop them/take them back.
PERVS have admitted to using the standings bug, Vikarion! I didn't think you were this blind! -----
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olzi
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.19 13:23:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Vikarion
The militia's victory was built upon the work of the 22nd Black Rise and PERVS taking plexes according to the rules. If you think defensive plexing with alts is against the rules, well, take it up with CCP. The standings bug wasn't used by the 22nd and PERVS to take the systems, though Gallente used it to try to stop them/take them back.
Don't bother replying to a 10 day old troll character. You can finish the history lesson if he has the stomach to show his bitter main in this thread.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 13:43:00 -
[149]
Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 13:43:07
Originally by: olzi Don't bother replying to a 10 day old troll character. You can finish the history lesson if he has the stomach to show his bitter main in this thread.
Funny you should pick up on a something about me rather than addressing any of the actual points I made - but then again, PERVS have no actual answer to any of them, do you? -----
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:15:00 -
[150]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 12:24:54
Originally by: Vincent Death I've never complained about any exploits, actually. I just find it funny how much of a froth you guys get worked up into when your own people do exactly the same things without any criticism. Quite frankly I think anything goes that isn't declared illegal by CCP.
The reclamation of Gallente space after PERVS left was done legally - despite the impediment of the standard Caldari militia, we were able to take most of Gallente space into contested and reclaim some systems with about two week's worth of work. Now, in a single day, despite a direct promise from the leader of PERVS himself, threats were made by the same person against every Gallente militia member, every previously contested system in both Gallente and Caldari space apart from about five exceptions has gone decontested and most of the Gallente-owned systems are now glowing hot.
This is not possible via normal means.
Just keep at it, if you want your systems back. He ran back to Gallente space, because he failed to do what he wanted in Minmatar space. Sure he got a good jump on us, as we weren't expecting it and the rapid amount of systems taken were a blow to Minmatar's at first.
Yet we fought back and have recaptured all but a handful of systems Damar took with out the need to use exploits like he did. This just proves that you can beat him and don't have to stoop to the same level he does as we took our systems back with out using standings exploits.
Dalmar and his little pervs are just griefers, despite his comical claims that he wants FW to be made better. It's clear if you put the pressure on him, as Minmatar did, he gives up quickly once it stops being "easy".
Just get your guys out their after DT and always close the defensive plexes first. Toss a noob alt in FW if you have too, and just let him close out the defensive plexes in the systems you hold.
Keep the pressure up on him and he will give up yet again.
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:42:00 -
[151]
Originally by: Ralnik ...Yet we fought back and have recaptured all but a handful of systems Damar took with out the need to use exploits like he did. This just proves that you can beat him and don't have to stoop to the same level he does as we took our systems back with out using standings exploits.
Dalmar and his little pervs are just griefers, despite his comical claims that he wants FW to be made better. It's clear if you put the pressure on him, as Minmatar did, he gives up quickly once it stops being "easy"...
The "comical claim" you refer to was made pretty much at the same time as they started their little foray, give or take a day .. gives it quite a bit of credibility. Your statement would have made sense if said claim was made as they withdrew.
EM split of some corporations to counter the surge and staunch the bleeding of systems and it worked ..
It was almost certainly done using yet another glaring flaw in the poorly coded NPCs. Not a standings abuse as such that much is true, but just as risk-free, lame and game breaking. The defence of the hinterland actually proved what Amarr have been saying since day one of this whole fiasco .. speed tanking is every bit as powerful as all the other exploits and abuses giving a massive advantage where none is supposed to be - NPC balance is completely out of whack.
Either way, I don't think anyone on the Amarr side had any intention of holding those systems, we quite simply lack the manpower to cover that much space. Made for a few decent fights from what I hear so there is at least that
Pointing fingers this late in the game is counter productive. Better to agree to disagree and work towards a brighter tomorrow for all parties.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:45:00 -
[152]
I am perfectly aware that they're griefers, Ralnik. Unfortunately, downtime is, from a historical perspective, when the Gallente militia is weakest, and therefore no matter how many alts we made, the ratio of actual players available to use them is lower, which puts us at a disadvantage. The unbalanced DT plexing issue has been known about since Empyrean Age was in beta, and there are regular requests from players to fix it - and who do we find desperately opposing any change to the current mechanic? That's right, Nephilim "Neutral Repair Ships" Xeno and Bad "We're Ruining FW And Constantly Bragging About It FOR THE GOOD OF EVE!" Messenger. Show me someone who claims to be surprised by this and I will show you the world's worst liar. -----
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X Gallentius
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:53:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Either way, I don't think anyone on the Amarr side had any intention of holding those systems, we quite simply lack the manpower to cover that much space. Made for a few decent fights from what I hear so there is at least that
You could have the manpower if each of you man up and buy 3 afk plexing alts.
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Ralnik
Mutineers
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:33:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida
Originally by: Ralnik ...Yet we fought back and have recaptured all but a handful of systems Damar took with out the need to use exploits like he did. This just proves that you can beat him and don't have to stoop to the same level he does as we took our systems back with out using standings exploits.
Dalmar and his little pervs are just griefers, despite his comical claims that he wants FW to be made better. It's clear if you put the pressure on him, as Minmatar did, he gives up quickly once it stops being "easy"...
The "comical claim" you refer to was made pretty much at the same time as they started their little foray, give or take a day .. gives it quite a bit of credibility. Your statement would have made sense if said claim was made as they withdrew.
EM split of some corporations to counter the surge and staunch the bleeding of systems and it worked ..
It was almost certainly done using yet another glaring flaw in the poorly coded NPCs. Not a standings abuse as such that much is true, but just as risk-free, lame and game breaking. The defence of the hinterland actually proved what Amarr have been saying since day one of this whole fiasco .. speed tanking is every bit as powerful as all the other exploits and abuses giving a massive advantage where none is supposed to be - NPC balance is completely out of whack.
Either way, I don't think anyone on the Amarr side had any intention of holding those systems, we quite simply lack the manpower to cover that much space. Made for a few decent fights from what I hear so there is at least that
Pointing fingers this late in the game is counter productive. Better to agree to disagree and work towards a brighter tomorrow for all parties.
We could go on with the tit for tat all day.. Maybe Minmatar NPC's in plexes are a bit harder than Amarr's. Yet Amarr typically had the advantage with their plexing gangs due to the DT respawn mechanics.
Amarr also have it much easier in high sec with easy access to our trade hubs and laughable EW from our faction Navy's. Meanwhile Minmatar have to make many high sec jumps to hit the busy Amarr systems and can't run active tanks due to getting neuted.
Each side has its advantages and disadvantages in regards to NPCs. The deal is, it was fairly well balanced till your Caldri buddies started sticking their fingers in it. You guys supportd their exploiting by shooting the bunkers to make the captures final and bragged all over IS about it.
You helped open up a can of worms, that will likely hurt your Militia far more than the small temporary short sighted gains you achieved. We asked you many times to stop supporting them, but instead you guys insisted on RPing around your fake victory and essentially ****ed off the Minmatar Militia and it's friends.
Now we will see where it goes.
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:35:00 -
[155]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 12:24:54
Originally by: Vincent Death I've never complained about any exploits, actually. I just find it funny how much of a froth you guys get worked up into when your own people do exactly the same things without any criticism. Quite frankly I think anything goes that isn't declared illegal by CCP.
The reclamation of Gallente space after PERVS left was done legally - despite the impediment of the standard Caldari militia, we were able to take most of Gallente space into contested and reclaim some systems with about two week's worth of work. Now, in a single day, despite a direct promise from the leader of PERVS himself, threats were made by the same person against every Gallente militia member, every previously contested system in both Gallente and Caldari space apart from about five exceptions has gone decontested and most of the Gallente-owned systems are now glowing hot.
This is not possible via normal means.
I've helped with many of those. It's being done by those of us dedicated enough to stay up late and get up just after DT, every day, rescan systems for new plexes every hour, and run, run, run plexes.
Gallente are plexing, yes, but every Caldari plexer is working three times as hard. And we have a strategy, yes, but it's entirely legal. As I said, I've been at most of the ones in placid. --- |
Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:41:00 -
[156]
Originally by: Vikarion but it's entirely legal
You're working with PERVS. No it isn't. -----
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:43:00 -
[157]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Vikarion The militia's victory was built upon the work of the 22nd Black Rise and PERVS taking plexes according to the rules. If you think defensive plexing with alts is against the rules, well, take it up with CCP. The standings bug wasn't used by the 22nd and PERVS to take the systems, though Gallente used it to try to stop them/take them back.
PERVS have admitted to using the standings bug, Vikarion! I didn't think you were this blind!
They used the standings bug in Amarr. It wasn't used by Caldari in the initial conquest of Gal space. It was used by the Gals/Minnies against us. Turnabout is fair play, or so they say. --- |
Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:48:00 -
[158]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Vikarion but it's entirely legal
You're working with PERVS. No it isn't.
I'm working with anyone who will plex with me. No one I have plexed with has intentionally used any of the bugs. Until I see otherwise, I'll continue to fly with them. Guilty until proven innocent isn't my thing. --- |
Cosmic Raider
Solo Plex
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:54:00 -
[159]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 12:24:54 some funny words and then... every previously contested system in both Gallente and Caldari space apart from about five exceptions has gone decontested and most of the Gallente-owned systems are now glowing hot.
This is not possible via normal means.
Well, it could be supernatural haxing, or it could just be that Caldari know how to plex and are willing to work hard at it. Of course, no one has ever been willing to believe that the Caldari put this much effort into plexing, despite the hard evidence to the contrary, because, after all, plexing is boring, plexing isn't really pvp, Caldari are fail pve fit/cloaking/ exploiting/running noobs, Caldari NPC's are mean to us, etc, etc, etc,.
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 16:40:00 -
[160]
Originally by: Cosmic Raider
Originally by: Andreus LeHane Edited by: Andreus LeHane on 19/12/2009 12:24:54 some funny words and then... every previously contested system in both Gallente and Caldari space apart from about five exceptions has gone decontested and most of the Gallente-owned systems are now glowing hot.
This is not possible via normal means.
Well, it could be supernatural haxing, or it could just be that Caldari know how to plex and are willing to work hard at it. Of course, no one has ever been willing to believe that the Caldari put this much effort into plexing, despite the hard evidence to the contrary, because, after all, plexing is boring, plexing isn't really pvp, Caldari are fail pve fit/cloaking/ exploiting/running noobs, Caldari NPC's are mean to us, etc, etc, etc,.
I wish our NPCs neuted. --- |
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 16:51:00 -
[161]
Originally by: Vikarion I wish our NPCs neuted.
State Shukuro Gassin
Look it up. Shows how little you know. -----
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:17:00 -
[162]
Do we really need to point at each other how THEY can only win because THEY abuse game mechanics? It's getting silly. All sides are tired of the plex mechanic. "Doing it right" discourages combat, not encourages it, which is just horrible design.
I'm sorry to see that there is so much hatred between the Caldari and Gallente. I would prefer if we could not go the same way between the Amarr and Minmatar. The gloating is just as ridiculous as the finger pointing.
There are very good threads on how to improve FW around. Please try to be constructive. The chest beating serves no one and just makes you all look silly.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:24:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Arkady Sadik I'm sorry to see that there is so much hatred between the Caldari and Gallente.
The entire reason for this can be placed at the feet of people like PERVS who twist the spirit of the game, win by unfair means, gloat over it, and then have the balls to say that it was in the best interests of the game. I still have respect for a few Caldari corporations - coincidentally, the ones that don't associate with PERVS. -----
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Vikarion
Caldari Chorus of Nephilim
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:34:00 -
[164]
Edited by: Vikarion on 19/12/2009 17:37:04
Originally by: Andreus LeHane State Shukuro Gassin
Look it up. Shows how little you know.
*Shrug* I don't attack NPCs on my side, so I wouldn't know.
I'm not sure why you've elected to view me as a target of your little crusade, but I think you need to chill out and calm down a bit. Personally, I'm just playing the game and having fun, and I haven't seen anyone cheating. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but I haven't seen it, and I'm not going to assume it until I do.
I've flown with Damar, I've never seen him use anything untoward in the Caldari/Gallente theater. We're just having fun, trying to flip systems. We have some tactics that work very well, but they aren't cheating. Some bugs, like the NPC one, are impossible to avoid in combat, but that's life.
I think you need to remember that this is ultimately a collection of pixels being displayed from electronic data. --- |
Actumarius
Caldari Nemissaries of Vengeance
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:42:00 -
[165]
Have minimum ship sizes for plexes as well as maxes. Make it so you have to kill all rats before you cna turn the plex. Make the capture points somewhere near the warp in points so its not criminally easy to run from a fight, or make the NPCs scram.
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Tosi
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.19 18:21:00 -
[166]
Edited by: Tosi on 19/12/2009 18:21:20
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Vikarion but it's entirely legal
You're working with PERVS. No it isn't.
somebody non-finnish working with pervs? since when? ;P
edit: typoo ---- -Bad Messenger doesn't actually write on forums, the words assemble themselves out of fear.
Mahooky Dowripple > I vote tosi for breakfast
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Cosmic Raider
Solo Plex
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Posted - 2009.12.19 21:26:00 -
[167]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Arkady Sadik I'm sorry to see that there is so much hatred between the Caldari and Gallente.
The entire reason for this can be placed at the feet of people like PERVS who twist the spirit of the game, win by unfair means, gloat over it, and then have the balls to say that it was in the best interests of the game. I still have respect for a few Caldari corporations - coincidentally, the ones that don't associate with PERVS.
I know several of whom I would consider to be elite Gals and respect them very much. You know who you are Val, Loren, and Chatgris. All my interactions with Gals has been intense and professional. I have much respect for all Gal capabilities and tactics, even if they are French and their women don't shave.
Other than that, the criticism of the PERVS fundamentally misunderstands them. I will help. To be a PERV means you must do things that: 1. Require skill 2. Be innovative 3. Contribute to mission success 4. Be outrageous! 5. Have fun in the game
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.20 08:56:00 -
[168]
So Minnies .. are you going to stop exploiting when you have regained that which the Caldari took with their exploits? Or does your understanding of the world make you think that double standards are twice as good and just standards?
Speed tanking; personal gain with no risk or cost incurred by individual. The definition of exploit.
Let's end this madness and do it proper, eh?
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Dohl Khrensen
Huang Yinglong
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Posted - 2009.12.20 09:36:00 -
[169]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida So Minnies .. are you going to stop exploiting when you have regained that which the Caldari took with their exploits? Or does your understanding of the world make you think that double standards are twice as good and just standards?
Speed tanking; personal gain with no risk or cost incurred by individual. The definition of exploit.
Let's end this madness and do it proper, eh?
Seriously: grow up.
Lick your wounds and try posting more than 30 seconds after a ship loss. You don't need to like it. We don't need to like it. But, get real, speed tanking is no exploit.
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Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
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Posted - 2009.12.20 09:49:00 -
[170]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida So Minnies .. are you going to stop exploiting when you have regained that which the Caldari took with their exploits? Or does your understanding of the world make you think that double standards are twice as good and just standards?
Speed tanking; personal gain with no risk or cost incurred by individual. The definition of exploit.
Let's end this madness and do it proper, eh?
The same way you were going to stop when you had the systems Minmatar had taken from you? -Oh wait.
It just might be that PERVS have shown Minmatar Militia what can be done and Amarr with their crowing of victories has provided sufficient motivation to do just that.
But thats just my opinion on what seems to be the case right now.
Ps. Double standards? -Tell me, how are they working for you? - "Man talking to a god is religious. Man claiming that god talks to him is insane." -Anonymous |
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.20 09:51:00 -
[171]
Originally by: Dohl Khrensen Seriously: grow up.
Lick your wounds and try posting more than 30 seconds after a ship loss. You don't need to like it. We don't need to like it. But, get real, speed tanking is no exploit.
Which is why I chose this thread to vent in seeing as it screams that the Caldari were using exploits when their "method" is not one either.
CCP are so damn slow to admit the game breaking flaws that they make a snail look like The Flash. Since we can not rely on them to improve the game at a reasonable pace I think my question is quite apt and infinitely valid.
Fact is that what you are able to do, abusing the crappy plex and the Amarr NPCs flawed design, showcases the very definition of an exploit. MWD's were originally removed from missions because speed tanking.kiting NPCs were not what CCP had intended ..
But I'll take your reply as evidence that the Minmatar are perfectly happy to abuse and exploit the system as long as it is not done against them .. the uproar you managed to create when Damar and Co. came along suddenly sounds like a rather distant thunder .. so much for change.
PS: It was more like 10 minutes after loss, so HAH!
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Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.20 10:04:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Veshta Yoshida on 20/12/2009 10:05:27
Originally by: Chell Charon The same way you were going to stop when you had the systems Minmatar had taken from you? -Oh wait.
Huh? You are referring toe the initial captures that were done before the VP adjustment were made? Yea, shame on us for having to do 4 times the plexing than you did to amend CCP horrid mistake .. we are such low-lives We actually did stop after Lantorn/Siseide in case you were wondering .. personnel limits kind of decided that one for us.
Originally by: Chell Charon It just might be that PERVS have shown Minmatar Militia what can be done and Amarr with their crowing of victories has provided sufficient motivation to do just that.
The Caldari showed the Minmatar that exploiting and abusing the system is OK as long as CCP remains docile, doesn't mean its right, just like a thief is not technically at fault unless caught. The "crowing" was for the first two system I think, rest were just announcements. Didn't read more than the first few and never posted myself, so can't really comment.
I don't do double standards. I have been advocating a revamp of FW since last summer and have reported all bugs discovered .. But since I don't have access to the abuses you use I can only describe them and not give accurate reproduction steps, so CCP generally disregard them. I presume Minmatar won't be reporting the abuses since it is the golden goose, so congratulations on your "victories".
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Chell Charon
The Seven's Low-Sec Securitas
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Posted - 2009.12.20 10:16:00 -
[173]
Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Edited by: Veshta Yoshida on 20/12/2009 10:05:27
Originally by: Chell Charon The same way you were going to stop when you had the systems Minmatar had taken from you? -Oh wait.
Huh? You are referring toe the initial captures that were done before the VP adjustment were made? Yea, shame on us for having to do 4 times the plexing than you did to amend CCP horrid mistake .. we are such low-lives We actually did stop after Lantorn/Siseide in case you were wondering .. personnel limits kind of decided that one for us.
Originally by: Chell Charon It just might be that PERVS have shown Minmatar Militia what can be done and Amarr with their crowing of victories has provided sufficient motivation to do just that.
The Caldari showed the Minmatar that exploiting and abusing the system is OK as long as CCP remains docile, doesn't mean its right, just like a thief is not technically at fault unless caught. The "crowing" was for the first two system I think, rest were just announcements. Didn't read more than the first few and never posted myself, so can't really comment.
I don't do double standards. I have been advocating a revamp of FW since last summer and have reported all bugs discovered .. But since I don't have access to the abuses you use I can only describe them and not give accurate reproduction steps, so CCP generally disregard them. I presume Minmatar won't be reporting the abuses since it is the golden goose, so congratulations on your "victories".
Tell you what -and I am speaking only for myself here- You get the speed tank issue into a suppportable thread (Or just throw a link for one) and I'll support CCP coming up with something to even out the matter.
I'll even advocate that TLF stop taking plexes with speed untill such time as CCP solves it, once personnel limits so decide. -Sound fair?
- "Man talking to a god is religious. Man claiming that god talks to him is insane." -Anonymous |
Veshta Yoshida
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.20 10:29:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Veshta Yoshida on 20/12/2009 10:37:00
Originally by: Chell Charon Tell you what -and I am speaking only for myself here- You get the speed tank issue into a suppportable thread (Or just throw a link for one) and I'll support CCP coming up with something to even out the matter.
I'll even advocate that TLF stop taking plexes with speed untill such time as CCP solves it, once personnel limits so decide. -Sound fair?
Pretty much all the FW related topics in Assembly Hall have "Require destruction of NPC", "Balance NPCs" as an item so take you pick. The ones I am pushing are [Proposal] FIX FACTION WARFARE and [Proposal] Moratorium on VP gain.
But like I said, there are plenty to go around so not inclined to spam yet another topic for something that is part of a larger issue ie. the complex balance.
I have a collection thread going, trying to gather an as complete as possible list of flaws/ideas related to FW.
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Arkady Sadik
Minmatar Gradient
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Posted - 2009.12.20 11:39:00 -
[175]
This "OMG YOU EXPLOITER!" thing is not getting any better in this thread.
Just pointing out two factually wrong statements above:
1) "Speed tanking Amarr offensive complexes is a completely risk-free afk matter" No, it's not. Having lost two Rifters to bad spawn timing, having several close calls due to neuts, etc., I can assure you it's not. Doesn't mean I particularly like the current plexing mechanics, but exaggerating problems beyond proportion helps no one.
2) "Minmatar complexes can not be soloed" Again, factually wrong. Seen it done multiple times now. It's more difficult, but not impossible.
Sorry for the interruption. Feel free to go back to the scheduled finger pointing now.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.20 15:17:00 -
[176]
It seems that our little operation made minmatar/amarr front back alive
Now occupancy has meaning and all want to plex, at least on minmatar side.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:05:00 -
[177]
Originally by: Bad Messenger It seems that our little operation made minmatar/amarr front back alive
Now occupancy has meaning and all want to plex, at least on minmatar side.
Still have nothing to say about your broken promise? -----
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EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:26:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Bad Messenger It seems that our little operation made minmatar/amarr front back alive
Now occupancy has meaning and all want to plex, at least on minmatar side.
Still have nothing to say about your broken promise?
Just another PERVS.. "we going to do this... wait... emmm... this ain't working the way we thought... Lets leave and hope they don't notice". Its a shame, PERVS are a good corp, but they hate to lose so they just leave and say "didn't want it anyway".
But on the other hand, those in the gallente that said "Oh were taking systems WE ARE AWESOME", after crying for a year about hard NPC's and me pointing out "Its only cause PERVS don't care at the moment" and the gallente replied "Meh, if PERVS were here we'd still be taking systems" now PERVS are back, hows the system capture going? LOL
Really FW is good for one thing. Some pew pew and that has dried up. Were struggling to get 2000 kills this month, which is very disappointing, The NORV caldari are beat, only MCB are any threat and PERVS are doing their plexes. We are back to camping Nourv to get kills which is not what we wanted to do.
Buy hay ho, tis a game. FW stuff means nothing apart from the 5000+ war targets, but I think there might be another way to get some kills...
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Eternal Hatred
Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:40:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Tosi Edited by: Tosi on 19/12/2009 18:21:20
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Vikarion but it's entirely legal
You're working with PERVS. No it isn't.
somebody non-finnish working with pervs? since when? ;P
edit: typoo
Well, you DO have one brittish and one american member so yes .. there is non-finnish players too.
Beside I know you guys cheat, I have installed those programs Bad Messenger coded for us to use. Don't try to deny it. _________________
It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :( |
Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.21 11:55:00 -
[180]
Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Just another PERVS.. "we going to do this... wait... emmm... this ain't working the way we thought... Lets leave and hope they don't notice". Its a shame, PERVS are a good corp, but they hate to lose so they just leave and say "didn't want it anyway".
If you can tell me what we exactly lose or what was not working the way we thought?
We lost couple systems as expected, main reason was that gallente did not want to come to fight in plexes where was caldari npc, now we get fight in plexes again, every one win.
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Andreus LeHane
Gallente Mixed Metaphor
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Posted - 2009.12.21 12:03:00 -
[181]
Originally by: Eternal Hatred Beside I know you guys cheat, I have installed those programs Bad Messenger coded for us to use. Don't try to deny it.
Ooooh. I smell permabans in the air. Tell me more. -----
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Eternal Hatred
Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:10:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Andreus LeHane
Originally by: Eternal Hatred Beside I know you guys cheat, I have installed those programs Bad Messenger coded for us to use. Don't try to deny it.
Ooooh. I smell permabans in the air. Tell me more.
What more there is? You know that certain BIG alliance also uses 3rd party programs that are legal? I got bunch of 3rd party programs in my Windows! Anyway if you really wanna petition something - you should start with certain applications that Goonswarm uses. Ours are for macromining only. _________________
It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :( |
EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:32:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Just another PERVS.. "we going to do this... wait... emmm... this ain't working the way we thought... Lets leave and hope they don't notice". Its a shame, PERVS are a good corp, but they hate to lose so they just leave and say "didn't want it anyway".
If you can tell me what we exactly lose or what was not working the way we thought?
We lost couple systems as expected, main reason was that gallente did not want to come to fight in plexes where was caldari npc, now we get fight in plexes again, every one win.
I'm sorry I thought you went to amarr space to take all the systems using alts with positive standings to that CCP would see the problem and sort it. I'm sure I can link to a load of posts where you/PERVS said that.
So either I missed the CCP patch notes that was CCP sort the problem or you stopped doing it before your stated completed goal?
Or is it the one where you would only defend 2 Caldari Captured systems? Or have you sold your accounts and given them to someone else? In which case, sorry. But I see you all DT plexing like normal all over Gallente recaptured space.
Or the POS in High Sec to get fights? When the fight came and an EXACT time was given to everyone for the fight due to reinforcement you pulled that corp out of FW. But that was our fault for shooting it and not war deccing the corp, the caldari for not coming to defend and you didn't really want the fight.
So now its fights in plexes you want.. Excellent. A new target good for you and your corp.. NICE! Although your only 8th top killing caldari corp.. So if its pew pew you want, sounds like 6 other player corps have better ways of getting pew pew..
The problem with publicly setting goals is that people remind you of them.
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:35:00 -
[184]
Originally by: EVIL SYNNs
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Just another PERVS.. "we going to do this... wait... emmm... this ain't working the way we thought... Lets leave and hope they don't notice". Its a shame, PERVS are a good corp, but they hate to lose so they just leave and say "didn't want it anyway".
If you can tell me what we exactly lose or what was not working the way we thought?
We lost couple systems as expected, main reason was that gallente did not want to come to fight in plexes where was caldari npc, now we get fight in plexes again, every one win.
I'm sorry I thought you went to amarr space to take all the systems using alts with positive standings to that CCP would see the problem and sort it. I'm sure I can link to a load of posts where you/PERVS said that.
So either I missed the CCP patch notes that was CCP sort the problem or you stopped doing it before your stated completed goal?
Or is it the one where you would only defend 2 Caldari Captured systems? Or have you sold your accounts and given them to someone else? In which case, sorry. But I see you all DT plexing like normal all over Gallente recaptured space.
Or the POS in High Sec to get fights? When the fight came and an EXACT time was given to everyone for the fight due to reinforcement you pulled that corp out of FW. But that was our fault for shooting it and not war deccing the corp, the caldari for not coming to defend and you didn't really want the fight.
So now its fights in plexes you want.. Excellent. A new target good for you and your corp.. NICE! Although your only 8th top killing caldari corp.. So if its pew pew you want, sounds like 6 other player corps have better ways of getting pew pew..
The problem with publicly setting goals is that people remind you of them.
Some people just go to all trolss
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EVIL SYNNs
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:58:00 -
[185]
Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 21/12/2009 13:58:41
Originally by: Bad Messenger Some people just go to all trolss
Ah thank god.. I did wonder if you were being serious. I mean it did look silly you saying "what goals?" and me being able to link them all and the subsequent changes. /me wipes brow it was only a troll
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:02:00 -
[186]
Originally by: EVIL SYNNs Edited by: EVIL SYNNs on 21/12/2009 13:58:41
Originally by: Bad Messenger Some people just go to all trolss
Ah thank god.. I did wonder if you were being serious. I mean it did look silly you saying "what goals?" and me being able to link them all and the subsequent changes. /me wipes brow it was only a troll
Have you seen any PERVS made thread about our goals lately?
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Selous
Wrath of Fenris
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:18:00 -
[187]
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Have you seen any PERVS made thread about our goals lately?
I havent seen any pervs lately that can find their goals
( tried looking under bed ? )
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Bad Messenger
Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:28:00 -
[188]
Originally by: Selous
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Have you seen any PERVS made thread about our goals lately?
I havent seen any pervs lately that can find their goals
( tried looking under bed ? )
That is true we do not have any goals at this moment. Maybe on next year, maybe.
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Eternal Hatred
Amarr Pantsu Garu Limited Technologies
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Posted - 2009.12.21 14:41:00 -
[189]
Originally by: Selous
Originally by: Bad Messenger
Have you seen any PERVS made thread about our goals lately?
I havent seen any pervs lately that can find their goals
( tried looking under bed ? )
I heard their PR department got banned, C/D? _________________
It's great being an Amarr, isn't it??? :( |
olzi
Caldari Space Perverts and Forum Warriors United
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Posted - 2009.12.22 19:38:00 -
[190]
Originally by: EVIL SYNNs
Really FW is good for one thing. Some pew pew and that has dried up. Were struggling to get 2000 kills this month, which is very disappointing, The NORV caldari are beat, only MCB are any threat and PERVS are doing their plexes. We are back to camping Nourv to get kills which is not what we wanted to do.
I recommend Old Man Star, I heard there's some exploiting caldari corp there willing to do some pvp over fw plexes.
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Damar Rocarion
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Posted - 2009.12.23 22:32:00 -
[191]
Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 23/12/2009 22:36:07 Edited by: Damar Rocarion on 23/12/2009 22:35:34
Originally by: Arkady Sadik I'm sorry to see that there is so much hatred between the Caldari and Gallente.
You have no idea actually. To me personally, there is no way I can ever respect a gallente plexer as player due to exploiting done by their side, real or imagined. I assume no gallente plexer can respect caldari plexers (or at least me, but that's fine) due to exploiting done by our side, real or imagined.
For example, you'll struggle to see me say "gf" to local. And all this hatred, smack, fingerpointing and crap for a piece of text on the upper corner of the screen. We are all mad indeed.
Granted, I have personal bias because when Caldari originally started rolling the systems, I seemed to become sort of sort of lightning rod for all kind of nasty rumors and personal attacks done by Ankh, Val, etc. Am I bitter and carry a grudge? Of course.
Damar Rocarion Brigadier General
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Anwar DeRuyter
Gallente DEATHFUNK
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Posted - 2009.12.24 15:48:00 -
[192]
Find yourself waking up screaming "Damn those Gallente!" at night?
Do the letters F, D and U when placed in close proximity to each other make you froth and turn blue?
Do you walk 50 circles around your alarm clock each morning before not going to work?
If you answered yes to any or all of these questions, you might be suffering from Post Traumatic Plex Disorder.
For a free consultation, please dial 0800-CLOAKY ALT. One of our friendly specialists will be happy to neutrally, and without bias, RR your brain.
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