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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Donte
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.06.18 15:43:00 -
[1] - Quote
EVE is a harsh, cold, angry, bitter, mean, and many more malignant adjectives. None of which include "Safe".
So why is it that NPC corporations are immune to wardec's?
Individuals who fly for these companies are the "safest" people in EVE and i don't like it.
I think you should be able to wardec NPC corps.
Im sure considerations can be made with rules already in place about "safe havens" for brand new players in starter systems (perhaps even a starter constellation). but once they leave... 
Thoughts? |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness
The Midget Mafia
1496
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Posted - 2012.06.18 15:52:00 -
[2] - Quote
Donte wrote:EVE is a harsh, cold, angry, bitter, mean, and many more malignant adjectives. None of which include "Safe". So why is it that NPC corporations are immune to wardec's? Individuals who fly for these companies are the "safest" people in EVE and i don't like it. I think you should be able to wardec NPC corps. Im sure considerations can be made with rules already in place about "safe havens" for brand new players in starter systems (perhaps even a starter constellation). but once they leave... Thoughts?
Space shuttle Enterprise
Space shuttle Atlantis
Both are space shuttles
both look the same
only one can actually fly in space
making the other one spaceworthy would take pretty much a complete reconstruction project
see where I'm going here?
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Sara XIII
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
91
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Posted - 2012.06.18 15:52:00 -
[3] - Quote
EVE is a game tough guy. Something a lot of people do for fun. NPC corps are a great place for casuals like me.
Between Ignorance and Wisdom |
Alexa Coates
The Scope
Gallente Federation
145
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Posted - 2012.06.18 15:53:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jesus christ, stop trying to MAKE people fight you. Go shoot some other miners you freaks.
Love my Gallente Federation Navy ships! |
Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
120
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 15:56:00 -
[5] - Quote
Donte wrote:EVE is a harsh, cold, angry, bitter, mean, and many more malignant adjectives. None of which include "Safe". So why is it that NPC corporations are immune to wardec's? Individuals who fly for these companies are the "safest" people in EVE and i don't like it. I think you should be able to wardec NPC corps. Im sure considerations can be made with rules already in place about "safe havens" for brand new players in starter systems (perhaps even a starter constellation). but once they leave... Thoughts?
I agree, to an extent.
I think NPC corps should be wardecablle, but the fee higher AND toons less than 6 months old should be immune.
It's just wrong that a game like this has un-deccable hiding spots. Either npc corps should be war-deccable OR players in npc corps should be restricted from doing anything that affects the game like making isk or shooting people. |
Christopher Dulson
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
12
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Posted - 2012.06.18 15:57:00 -
[6] - Quote
If you could wardec NPC corps then they would be permanently wardeced.
Players would sit outside start up systems shooting newbies that had undocked for the first time ever.
And over local there would be a bot just constantly repeating "go back to WOW" every 5 seconds
It could never happen and your either a bad troll or a dumb as a sack
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
120
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:00:00 -
[7] - Quote
Alexa Coates wrote:Jesus christ, stop trying to MAKE people fight you. Go shoot some other miners you freaks.
This is not a question of making people fight, this is a question of fariness.
Newbies should be protected to a point yes, but players who can affect the game in any way AFTER a newbie period (as in my other post, I suggest 6 months) should be liable to experiance the negative aspects of the game in full. One of those negative aspects is being invovled in a war. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
860
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:05:00 -
[8] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Alexa Coates wrote:Jesus christ, stop trying to MAKE people fight you. Go shoot some other miners you freaks. This is not a question of making people fight, this is a question of fariness. Newbies should be protected to a point yes, but players who can affect the game in any way AFTER a newbie period (as in my other post, I suggest 6 months) should be liable to experiance the negative aspects of the game in full. One of those negative aspects is being invovled in a war.
Rookie Corps are not the same as Bittervet NPC Corps.
Make NPC corps dec-vulnerable.
Leave Rookie corps alone.
All semblance of ill-intent vanishes, because a rookie cannot be in an NPC corp without having first joined a player corp to get out of the Rookie corp.
Clear as mud, right?
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller.
-Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
92
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
We could argue for days about this issue, but let's all be honest with ourselves here. This is the Eve playerbase we're talking about here. I love you guys. I really do, but...
Christopher Dulson wrote:If you could wardec NPC corps then they would be permanently wardeced.
Players would sit outside start up systems shooting newbies that had undocked for the first time ever.
And over local there would be a bot just constantly repeating "go back to WOW" every 5 seconds
...this is all that would happen. |
Donte
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:11:00 -
[10] - Quote
i certianly admit that special considerations must be made for beginning players.
I have issues where simply by being in an NPC corp individuals can negate social consequence.
it should be a common thought when undocking in a space ship when you look at all those neutrals on your overview, "those people probably will kill me if i get out of line (or if they feel like it)." Those in NPC corps simply do not have that worry. yeah suicide ganking is a concern on every bodies mind, but the escalation of that aggression, the wardec, which is a visceral and integral part of EVE's combat society.
EVE is a PVP game. its not fair, but we all love it.
Its time those in NPC corps get to feel the unfair side of eve too.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Vahrokh Consulting
1318
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
Very simple common sense 101: in order to have new players stay in the game they have to get emotionally attached to something in EvE for long enough to decide to keep playing & paying even in a cold, harsh universe.
If you pound them since day zero they don't even have to time to like something about this game before they are kicked out.
Also, the day you wardec NPC corps all you get is to have former NPC players create a zillion of 1 men corps. Go wardec them all.
As usual you people get it wrong.
The correct approach is to teach people to WANT to PvP, not to make game mechanics grab them by the nutsacks and hold them steady while you melt them in RR + Falcon + T3 PvP ships.
Auditing | Collateral holding and insurance | Consulting | PLEX for Good Charity
Twitter channel |
Foder Enaka
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
7
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
They should have 2 tiers of npc corps. Newbie ones that are good til 5 mil sp. Then regular npc corps that can be war docked. You should start to get warning messages at 3 mil sps with even a small tutorial on how to find a corp for the truely clueless. That way someone is not getting killed their first day and people cant hide behind a wall of safety. |
Donte
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
2
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:12:00 -
[13] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Alexa Coates wrote:Jesus christ, stop trying to MAKE people fight you. Go shoot some other miners you freaks. This is not a question of making people fight, this is a question of fariness. Newbies should be protected to a point yes, but players who can affect the game in any way AFTER a newbie period (as in my other post, I suggest 6 months) should be liable to experiance the negative aspects of the game in full. One of those negative aspects is being invovled in a war. Rookie Corps are not the same as Bittervet NPC Corps. Make NPC corps dec-vulnerable. Leave Rookie corps alone. All semblance of ill-intent vanishes, because a rookie cannot be in an NPC corp without having first joined a player corp to get out of the Rookie corp. Clear as mud, right?
this man has a fine point.
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Roll Sizzle Beef
Space Mutiny
531
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:13:00 -
[14] - Quote
Donte wrote:Im sure considerations can be made with rules already in place about "safe havens" for brand new players in starter systems (perhaps even a starter constellation). but once they leave... Thoughts?
Thoughts? "Cant wait to pad my killboard with noob players because I have no skill" |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness
The Midget Mafia
1497
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
really this is about 1 player or corp who wants to stalk another player or corp and make their lives miserable
here's a news flash, NPC corps are not safe
please feel free to gank them on the undock if you feel their crimes towards you merit their destruction
but no, nobody is going to give you license to follow some noob indy corp around new eden while you remain 100% safe in a much more powerful war gank fleet.
I'm sure you'd love decs on NPC corps since they can't request allies or set standings or form alliances
win for you eh?
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
Freezehunter
133
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 16:16:00 -
[16] - Quote
It would be awesome if NPC corps could be war decced.
That way, inflation in this game would not run rampant because some people just make ISK for the sake of making ISK, and they would be forced to lose their super expensive faction fitted loot pinatas.
Inappropriate signature, CCP Phantom. |
nate555
GODHC INTERSTELLAR FLEET
Primal Force
44
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:19:00 -
[17] - Quote
You would want the powerfull navy's of the amarr empire to come down on you? |
Donte
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
3
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Morganta wrote:really this is about 1 player or corp who wants to stalk another player or corp and make their lives miserable
here's a news flash, NPC corps are not safe
please feel free to gank them on the undock if you feel their crimes towards you merit their destruction
but no, nobody is going to give you license to follow some noob indy corp around new eden while you remain 100% safe in a much more powerful war gank fleet.
I'm sure you'd love decs on NPC corps since they can't request allies or set standings or form alliances
win for you eh?
you're right about them not being safe. but they are, without a doubt, the safest. which says a lot. What do they sacrifice for that added safety?
Nothing.
Some added that they would just be steamrolled by corps with t3 ships and logistics... Cant people in NPC corps get t3 ships and their own logistics? Of course the answer is "Yes". They can indeed defend themselves from aggressors.
The key is, however, they don't want too! |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
Comic Mischief
724
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:22:00 -
[19] - Quote
If such a change were made, many players would start new pilots who would never leave the started corp or area. If that was prevented, they would simply un-sub. That results in less money for CCP and they would have to fire people. It would then take even longer for them to fix stuff, or maybe they would only have sufficient money for persistence, and not be able to work on the game at all.
But maybe you think Eve is perfect now and CCP does not need to work on it.
On the other side, those who stay in NPC corps do pay for their freedom from war. Higher taxes, no POS capability, no possibility of Sov, no corp hangars, cannot have annoying members kicked, cannot choose who is admitted to corp, cannot declare war, cannot put up a POCO, and so on.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
MaxxOmega
Temporal Mechanics
4
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:24:00 -
[20] - Quote
Freezehunter wrote:It would be awesome if NPC corps could be war decced.
That way, inflation in this game would not run rampant because some people just make ISK for the sake of making ISK, and they would be forced to lose their super expensive faction fitted loot pinatas, which would encourage them to buy new stuff and help the market doing so.
It would do no such thing at all. Any time I am in an NPC corp it is full of playeres with no ISK. Also since the NPC Corp has no real command structure or home base, full of people with no roles and absolutely no ties to each other, no one cares. Just try to get people in an NPC corp to get together to do anything.
It's a completely stupid idea. As someone else said, people will just create one man corps. You can't FORCE anyone to fight if they don't want to fight, they will just quit... |
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Donte
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
4
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:28:00 -
[21] - Quote
i have to say this again.
Its not about forcing people to fight, that is simply impossible.
its about removing unnecessary immunities.
There is no good reason that non-noobcorp NPC corporations should be immune to incoming wardecs. |
Morganta
Peripheral Madness
The Midget Mafia
1498
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 16:29:00 -
[22] - Quote
Donte wrote:Morganta wrote:really this is about 1 player or corp who wants to stalk another player or corp and make their lives miserable
here's a news flash, NPC corps are not safe
please feel free to gank them on the undock if you feel their crimes towards you merit their destruction
but no, nobody is going to give you license to follow some noob indy corp around new eden while you remain 100% safe in a much more powerful war gank fleet.
I'm sure you'd love decs on NPC corps since they can't request allies or set standings or form alliances
win for you eh? you're right about them not being safe. but they are, without a doubt, the safest. which says a lot. What do they sacrifice for that added safety? Nothing!
no sacrifice?
so you're saying there's no benefit to being in a player run corp and alliance?
The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy |
highonpop
Void.Tech
Fatal Ascension
103
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:33:00 -
[23] - Quote
Instead of letting player corps wardec NPC corps, CCP should add in some storyline with NPc corps vs NPC corps (not FW) and let NPC guys have at it in high sec 
Read First Dev Post: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=88362&find=unread
My post was probably full of typos. I don;t care... |
stoicfaux
1108
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:59:00 -
[24] - Quote
Donte wrote:I think you should be able to wardec NPC corps.
Excellent plan! Plus, anyone who war-decs an NPC corp loses access to that corp's stations (i.e. no med labs, market, fitting, etc.) and since the NPC corps are closely tied to the faction, such war-deccers should lose access to all stations of the corp's parent faction and should be shoot on sight by the Faction's navy and sentry guns.
Additionally, any personal items in such space should be immediately impounded by the NPC faction/corp. Anyone providing assistance to aggressiveness would reactive a standings loss towards the faction and its corps.
Finally, such people would be flashy red to everyone in the faction's NPC corps.
tl;dr If you want to shoot people in NPC corps, then join Faction Warfare. It's what it was designed for.
You can tell me what is and isn't Truth when you pry the tinfoil from my cold, lifeless head.
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Jenn aSide
Smokin Aces.
120
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Posted - 2012.06.18 16:59:00 -
[25] - Quote
Darth Gustav wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Alexa Coates wrote:Jesus christ, stop trying to MAKE people fight you. Go shoot some other miners you freaks. This is not a question of making people fight, this is a question of fariness. Newbies should be protected to a point yes, but players who can affect the game in any way AFTER a newbie period (as in my other post, I suggest 6 months) should be liable to experiance the negative aspects of the game in full. One of those negative aspects is being invovled in a war. Rookie Corps are not the same as Bittervet NPC Corps. Make NPC corps dec-vulnerable. Leave Rookie corps alone. All semblance of ill-intent vanishes, because a rookie cannot be in an NPC corp without having first joined a player corp to get out of the Rookie corp. Clear as mud, right?
I can go for that, with the exception that once a player passes a certain point even in the rookie corp (say, 5 or 6 mil SP), they too should become deccable.
If you don't do that, people just stay in rookie corps forever, suffering no real consequence in game other than a few high fees for things (which, after you get to the point where you can do lvl 4 missions, become moot). |
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
1039
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Posted - 2012.06.18 17:03:00 -
[26] - Quote
Donte wrote:i have to say this again.
Its not about forcing people to fight, that is simply impossible.
its about removing unnecessary immunities.
There is no good reason that non-noobcorp NPC corporations should be immune to incoming wardecs.
But all the NPC corp freighters out of Jita ...
How much does it cost to make a new corp ?
Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
94
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Posted - 2012.06.18 17:05:00 -
[27] - Quote
NPC corps have no leadership structure, and therefore will be unable to do what a player corps can do about wardecs.
Also, there are negative consequences to being in an NPC corp, as the normal aggression mechanics do not work the same as they do with a player corp. So in one way the NPC corp makes a player safer, and in another more vulnerable. |
Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
863
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Posted - 2012.06.18 17:06:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:Darth Gustav wrote:Jenn aSide wrote:Alexa Coates wrote:Jesus christ, stop trying to MAKE people fight you. Go shoot some other miners you freaks. This is not a question of making people fight, this is a question of fariness. Newbies should be protected to a point yes, but players who can affect the game in any way AFTER a newbie period (as in my other post, I suggest 6 months) should be liable to experiance the negative aspects of the game in full. One of those negative aspects is being invovled in a war. Rookie Corps are not the same as Bittervet NPC Corps. Make NPC corps dec-vulnerable. Leave Rookie corps alone. All semblance of ill-intent vanishes, because a rookie cannot be in an NPC corp without having first joined a player corp to get out of the Rookie corp. Clear as mud, right? I can go for that, with the exception that once a player passes a certain point even in the rookie corp (say, 5 or 6 mil SP), they too should become deccable. If you don't do that, people just stay in rookie corps forever, suffering no real consequence in game other than a few high fees for things (which, after you get to the point where you can do lvl 4 missions, become moot).
I agree that those players (above a certain SP limit) don't really belong in rookie corps. But, ostensibly, they could be self-appointed "teachers" who "help" newbies by "indoctrinating them" into Eve.
While I feel the overwhelming majority of such players actually provide misinformation (knowingly or otherwise), I think it would be a disservice to CCP to not allow players an opportunity to interact almost solely with Newbies.
For this reason, I think players should be allowed to stay indefinitely in rookie corps and thus be protected from war declarations.
However, once any player sheds the umbrella protection of a rookie corp for any reason, that player should be subject to war declaration from that point forward.
Barring this, all non-rookie NPC corps should be automatically enrolled in FW, like it or not.
He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller.
-Darth Gustav's Axiom |
Donte
Celestial Janissaries
Curatores Veritatis Alliance
4
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Posted - 2012.06.18 17:06:00 -
[29] - Quote
Alavaria Fera wrote:Donte wrote:i have to say this again.
Its not about forcing people to fight, that is simply impossible.
its about removing unnecessary immunities.
There is no good reason that non-noobcorp NPC corporations should be immune to incoming wardecs. But all the NPC corp freighters out of Jita ... How much does it cost to make a new corp ?
a hell of alot less than a frieghter |
Mia Restolo
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
48
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Posted - 2012.06.18 17:15:00 -
[30] - Quote
Donte wrote:
you're right about them not being safe. but they are, without a doubt, the safest. which says a lot. What do they sacrifice for that added safety?
11% tax, being forced to share a corp with lots of random idiots, difficulty finding a group of trustworthy players to tackle challenging or boring content or to pvp with. No ship replacement policies, organized corp activities, or anything else that comes from being in a good corp. Not being able to run a POS, POCO, etc...
If they were wardeccable people would simply make tons of 1 person or alt only corps to avoid people like you who are too chicken to engage a competent opponent. If you really want to shoot them, go ahead and gank them and deal with the consequences. |
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