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Aldahen	Posted - 2009.12.09 09:12:00 - [1] I bet this is asked a lot, but I'm clueless and didn't find any definitive answer. So I dared to start new topic. I guess that for PvP this is impossible to answer, but what is better T2 laser route for missioning? I personally have enjoyed so far the range of the beams on my Harbinger, but people seem to rave a lot about Scortch. A pulse chrystal.
Christine Cubes	Posted - 2009.12.09 09:29:00 - [2] Pulse = more DPS = faster missioning time Beam = less DPS = slower missioning time Decide on your own Drak Ps: Ofc you have to use an MWD when you have Pulses fitted!
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.09 09:30:00 - [3] Originally by: Christine Cubes Pulse = more DPS = faster missioning time Beam = less DPS = slower missioning time Decide on your own Drak Ps: Ofc you have to use an MWD when you have Pulses fitted! ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Drak Xenon Caldari GeoCorp. Paxton Federation	Posted - 2009.12.09 09:37:00 - [4] Grrr, i wanted to post with this char...damn it!
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2009.12.09 09:39:00 - [5] Originally by: Christine Cubes Pulse = more DPS = faster missioning time Beam = less DPS = slower missioning time Decide on your own Drak Ps: Ofc you have to use an MWD when you have Pulses fitted! Not entirely true. DPS values indeed work as you posted (more DPS = targets die faster) but range also comes into equation heavily. Ofc on harbinger the issue isnt as vissible but if you plan on using zealot (with range bonus) or battleships (and decide between megapulses or tachyons/megabeams) sometimes losing 15% DPS but getting 3x the range is wort it. Also... do missions let you use MWD nowadays?
Keitaro Baka Babylon Scientific and Industrial Enterprises Babylon Project	Posted - 2009.12.09 12:51:00 - [6] It depends on the ship really. But generally pulses (tech II + scorch) Scorch gives pulses excellent range, pulses are generally easier to fit, better tracking and do more dps. Beams, especially tachyons, do a lot of alpha damage, so you can instapop or quickly destroy targets at great range. Probably out of their range, so less tankage is needed. That said, apoc + scorch mega pulse = like 65-85km or something, who needs more range than that? Beams tend to suck at short range, hence generally pulses. For missions, goes best on frigs, BC, cruiser/hacs, bs/marauder (although there are very viable beam fits for the apoc/marauder). All the stuff above does not necessarily reflect my corp, my alliance or even me.. Drone guide..
Sentinel Borg	Posted - 2009.12.09 13:15:00 - [7] It also depends on your enemies. While Pulse with Scorch does great damage over a rather long range, it is almost pure EM, which can be bad in some cases.
Pasus Nauran Amarr	Posted - 2009.12.09 14:33:00 - [8] I've been wondering this myself, as I am still planning my BS fits and trying to determine between a pulse Abaddon or an Apoc (with either beam or pulses). For me, I'm limited to T1 guns for the next few months though. From my experience with my Harb doing L4s, I spend alot of time trying to close distance on AB between battleships. As such, much of my DPS is dealt using Infrared M and drones beyond MF range (I switch to X-Ray and MF as I close into their optimals). So the idea of an Apoc fitted with Mega Beams doing MF damage from 35km optimal sounds appealing.
baltec1 Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.09 14:41:00 - [9] I go with tachs. Pulse is too short on range and scorch burns up very very fast.
Kassa Daito Capital Construction Research	Posted - 2009.12.09 14:53:00 - [10] Edited by: Kassa Daito on 09/12/2009 14:55:29 Originally by: Aldahen I bet this is asked a lot, but I'm clueless and didn't find any definitive answer. So I dared to start new topic. I guess that for PvP this is impossible to answer, but what is better T2 laser route for missioning? I personally have enjoyed so far the range of the beams on my Harbinger, but people seem to rave a lot about Scortch. A pulse chrystal. IMO the largest subclass of beams are THE weapon of choice for small and medium turrets in missioning (assuming they can be fit reasonably). Small and med guns really need the range. On the other hand, T2 pulses and T1/T2 beams both have their place in large turret fits depending on the ship. This is due to T2 megapulse with scorch on an apoc being able to hit everything above cruiser class in a L4 and even non-rangebonused ships can hit almost everything with them. The middle variety lg beams are great on Abaddons although T2 megapulses also work. The new Navy Geddon might be able to pull off Tachs but I haven't played with it yet since I stopped missioning and it wouldn't be enough for me to take it above an Abaddon anyway. Apocs generally work best with T2 megapulses although I did enjoy my time spent missioning in a glass cannon tach fit. The Paladin can really pull off either T2 pulses or tachs but I prefer tachs. The Nightmare absolutely needs tachs to work properly. ** Disclaimer: Author sometimes spell checks but is not responsible for sins of commission, omission, emission, transmission, or submission. Flowers, bricks, or any other form of feedback appreciated
Julia Venatrix	Posted - 2009.12.09 14:58:00 - [11] For missions: Paladin - tachs Abaddon (high SP) - pulses Abaddon (low SP) - mega beams Apoc (T2) - pulse Apoc (T1) - Abaddon Geddon - Apoc Harby (T2) - pulse Harby (T1) - beam Proph - doesn't matter, you'll be there forever anyway Zealot - for missions, fit Harby Sac - just kidding Pilgrim - Neut and Cloak Curse - Neut and Neut Arbi - Hammerhead. Well, beam, because you want to range tank as well. Maller - see Proph. Omen - FMP, grid is too lousy for HP or beam IIRC. Coercer with 8x MPII is surprisingly fun on low-level missions. Retribution - pulse. --- Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue.
My Nin	Posted - 2009.12.09 15:23:00 - [12] Paladin works fine with both but in the end its same speed and less hussle to use tachs... on the Poc Pegapulse I guess...
Aldahen	Posted - 2009.12.11 12:03:00 - [13] Thanks all for your inputs. Seems quite mixed with pros and cons for both options. Maybe I end up going for pulse after all. It seems to be a bit more flexible option.
Terianna Eri Amarr Senex Legio Get Off My Lawn	Posted - 2009.12.11 12:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Aldahen Thanks all for your inputs. Seems quite mixed with pros and cons for both options. Maybe I end up going for pulse after all. It seems to be a bit more flexible option. I find that tracking computer supported beams are more flexible. With Tachs you can get 42+40 optimal + falloff with multifrequency and 2 tracking computers, which gives you an absolutely huge chunk of range that you can use the highest damage ammo at, and if you script the TCs for tracking you don't have much problem tracking most things, especially since you'll be able to nuke pretty much everything on approach anyway. Plus, Pulse lasers can't hit much more than 50k away (or 70k on an apoc), and there are some missions (surprisingly many actually) where I want to be able to hit things as far as 80, 90, or even 100km off. Additionally if you get tracking disrupted you can still get decent range out of tachs (falloff helps) whereas pulse are kind of dead in the water. As for raw DPS - Tachyons with multifrequency outdamage pulse with Scorch by rather a lot, and at those ranges tracking is (as mentioned) basically a non-issue. I only use pulse on Damsel in Distress and a few drone missions - missions with close range, high damage enemies that absolutely HAVE to be killed as fast as possible (Damsel), or missions with lots of small things that die in one or two hits to pulse anyway (drones). For everything else, I run tachs. I find them a significant improvement. As a bonus, tachyon beams look awesome, whereas mega pulse beams look like carp. ________________ Originally by: CCP Incognito PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
Madmi CEO	Posted - 2009.12.11 14:13:00 - [15] Originally by: Terianna Eri I only use pulse on Damsel in Distress and a few drone missions - missions with close range, high damage enemies that absolutely HAVE to be killed as fast as possible Even on Damsel you can simply warp to 30 or 50km range and take the pesky cruisers down from here. In the end it's about favorites. Do you want to dual wield two fast swords or chop down the enemy with a huge 2-Handed axe?
SuiJuris No.Mercy	Posted - 2009.12.11 16:48:00 - [16] Edited by: SuiJuris on 11/12/2009 16:51:41 Pulse are a much better choice for your first Tech 2 Large Turret, and if you want to go Spendy a Navy Geddon outperforms even a TACH baddon at 50km, where some Sansha / blood Raider Battleships like to orbit, and drastically outperforms it closer up. It can project almost 1100 DPS out to 52km optimal, with a 46 km optimal on your Garde II's. And using scorch doesn't really cut into your bottom line much at all. I have not used a Paladin, but I Imagine a Tachy Pally or Nightmare will probably still outperform the Navy Geddon but it might be closer then you think. Navy Geddon with Perfect skills / 5% hardwirings and a 3x Imperial Navy Heatsinks puts out 1299 DPS in multi range. I'm still EFT'ing to come up with a fit I like that uses Sentry damage rigs which should push that high end DPS even higher. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
Aralieus Amarr Traumark Logistics	Posted - 2009.12.11 17:12:00 - [17] Another thing to note if using tach's and you plan on salvaging the wrecks is the farther you shoot out the farther you have to travel to salvage the wrecks and that does have a negative impact on your isk/hour efficiency. Fortune favors the bold!!!
Irdia Freelancer	Posted - 2009.12.11 17:22:00 - [18] Amarr shipping and battleships? Some say beams, some say Apoc's. I say Abaddon and pulses even with low skills. Abaddon has biggest cpu/grid of amarr ships, plus resist bonus. Almost all Amarr space missions 1x LAR on abaddon plus manage your agro is plenty. EA 5/5, AE4 bonus rooms are only 2 missions I get which an omni-tanked and low skilled abaddon (2x imperial energized adaptives, no active hardners) with 1x LAR not enough. I do switch ships for blockade 4 with bloods - not because 1x lar is not enough, but that I've had up to 9 ships draining cap in 1 wave, and the abaddon needs cap to fire + rep. That much drain is rare, but I prefer to avoid it by running my support passive tanked ishtar in plus a passive tanked Apoc with artillery which dont care if have cap drained and can tank about 2 waves individually and still do good dps. Yes I know, the apoc has no bonus damage to artillery, but then it has no bonus to lasers damage either. The 2 ships still clear blocakde 4 with bloods in as little as 28 minutes with just the legion to loot/salv afterwards while the ishtar goes to the next mission ... The abaddon gets bonus 5%/lvl to damage and the pulses easier to fit (can fit 8x of with low skills) for max dps. The low skilled pulse of choice the mega modulated pulse with Amarr crystals. Some say the abaddon doesn't have range? Well if you compare the damage of say the abaddon with pulses to say the apoc with pulses the apoc can fit a higher damage crystal, but when add in the damage bonus to the abaddon, the damage is similar till you get closer targets where the abaddon uses multifreq crsyals and creams the apoc for dps. Need beams on an abaddon? The tracking on the beams is much less so you will have trouble hitting some ships orbiting just outside 10km which the pulses will easily chew up. Fit pulses and the tracking on ships outside 10km not bad, and closer stuff (cruisers and bigger) you can web and hit fully. I have a good Amarr agent in amarr space who gives around 60 different missions, of which 1 is serp (cargo delivery), 2 guristas (the assault with guristas being one of) with most of the rest vs em/therm weak opponents (mostly bloods). The longest orbit is 50km with most ships closing much closer. For faction crystal usage I use 3x multifreq crystals for every other crystal with the abaddons pulses, so the lack of range on the abbadon not really an issue. I still run T1 mega modulated pulses, not trained T2 yet. I've gone full circle for missioning in that mostly use the ishtar with no guns fitted (T2 sentries, drone int 5) with legion as loot/salv and drone support (5x hammerheads/hobgoblins). The legion has the drone sub in it so gets drone ship bonus similar to ishtar for med and smaller drones (lacks bandwidth for sentries), plus fits 40km tractor. Mostly its the ishtar slaughters with legion support while scouping the loot/salv. Even no gunnery in use, still get around 15k lp/hr while looting and salvaging everything. Other night I collected over 31k lp in 2 hours 8 minutes, with the lp/bounties/reward/bonus worth approx 203 mil plus loot/salv. Looted and salved every battleship, every non-drone wreck with anything in it, plus most of the wrecks (if still in mission and drones shooting up target, legion was grabbing salv). Loosing sizable dps runing the legion while picking up loot/salv speed pays off for me. Is still some missions I switch ships for more dps, like blockade 4 with bloods, damsel in distress, gone berserk... but mostly its the legion.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.12.11 17:43:00 - [19] I didnt read whole thread /especially last post looked really bad and made me ignore reading/, but generally i can say - beams. But only if generally means you have skills for nightmare or paladin heh. Dont think they are worth fitting to any other ship for pve. And pulses are definately thing to train first /scorch/, in pve you can use faction tachys with only little less dps than t2.
SuiJuris No.Mercy	Posted - 2009.12.11 18:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Edited by: Lugalzagezi666 on 11/12/2009 17:51:01 I didnt read whole thread /especially last post looked really bad and made me ignore reading/, but generally i can say - beams. But only if generally means you have skills for nightmare or paladin heh. Dont think they are worth fitting to any other ship for pve. And pulses are definately thing to train first /scorch/, in pve you can use faction tachys with only little less dps than t2. E : for suij - no it wont be even close, because you will spend most time in scorch range. Lugals the whole point of my post was that even in Scorch range it still outperforms Tachy's due to the sentry drones. 1100 DPS with a Optimal of 52 km is astounding. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.12.11 19:13:00 - [21] Nightmare : imperial mf - 977 gun dps at 47+48 /can make it 51+48, but cant be bothered to buy t2 locus, i thought i have him in hangar somewhere but i dont :(/ add 120 drone dps at 30+12 1097 total Navy G : scorch - 768 gun dps at 52+13 to 64+19 /0-2 tc/ add 300 drone dps at 30+12 to 42+12 /0-2 otl/ 1068 total - this is with no implants, using gun implants increase dps advantage of nightmare - you cant use sentries in missions when you have to move for mission loot or towards gates - you are much more td resistant with 48km falloff - you burn tru scorch very! fast - you have to use light to kill frigs sometimes - i use pulses on nm only on damsel, because all rats are very close from the beggining /tbh sometimes im lazy to refit/
SuiJuris No.Mercy	Posted - 2009.12.11 19:25:00 - [22] TD Resistance is a good point however Garde II's will make short work of TD'ing frigates / Cruisers, You are correct on missions with long travel times a Tachy ship will likely be better because you can't move with Sentries, but for most missions, Sentries are fine. Look at how fast a Domi missions, Sentries don't limit you very much. --- I am taking pre orders for Navy Armageddons
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.12.11 19:36:00 - [23] Sentries are fine and will significantly improve kill speed. But definitive answer for amarr l4 carebearing is pally with tachys /or nm if you blitz/. Btw there are alot of missions that have rats more than 50-60km away /blockade for example spawns alot of them at 70+/.
Sentinel Borg	Posted - 2009.12.11 19:55:00 - [24] Originally by: Madmi CEO Even on Damsel you can simply warp to 30 or 50km range and take the pesky cruisers down from here. No, you can't anymore since Dominion. This includes also a lot of other missions, where this "trick" worked.
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.12.11 20:30:00 - [25] the sentry + mega pulse navy geddon seems to have a slight advantage on the nightmare. but that is with sentrys + megapulse, where I am looking at only nightmare gun dps. up close the megapulse + sentries kick ass. think I'm still going to have to give it to the nightmare for the ability to hit out to 100km. for pve I'd go with beams in most cases. You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2009.12.11 20:54:00 - [26] As i said, theres only 1 mission, where i use pulses on nm - damsel in distress. And it has good reason, tachys just work better all others i run. Another thing - tachys are worth fitting ONLY on pally and nightmare /for pve/! That doesnt mean that megapulses cant be better in some cases, but generally they are not /and if navy geddon COULD fit tachys without wasting slots, id suggest using them instead of pulses/. Dont think im prefering tachys for some strange reason, its my experience from using both weapon types. And again, pulses should be trained first...
Andros Omega	Posted - 2009.12.12 02:01:00 - [27] I go with what ever will give me the most damage at 40-60km.

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