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Command Ships Worth it or Not?

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Dogma27	Posted - 2009.12.12 00:49:00 - [1] Recently i have been looking at command ships and browsing the forums and the only thing i can discern is that some people love CS's and some people hate them. so my qeustion is, in terms of usefulness over isk, are Command ships worth it?
Manu Hermanus FaDoyToy	Posted - 2009.12.12 00:54:00 - [2] well that depends on what you are planning to do with the command ship.
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel.	Posted - 2009.12.12 00:55:00 - [3] Depends on what you're looking to do I suppose. If you're looking to provide your gang with a number of ganglinks while still being somewhat useful for general tank/gank AND you can afford it, command ships have a role. If you are just interested in gank and tank in general though you should just fly a battleship. Virtually any BS will be better suited to general combat and cost considerably less.
Dogma27	Posted - 2009.12.12 01:09:00 - [4] i am looking for a solid tank while boosting my gang. Fleet command ships are the obvious route but i am wondering if it is even worth training for. looking at eos and vulture atm
darkmancer	Posted - 2009.12.12 01:32:00 - [5] In a word.. no. CS are too expensive, gang links are a pain to fit and use, plus they turn off everytime you warp and they're boost is stacked against already fitted modules so tend to be meh. Worst of all the skills take along time to learn, feature alot of the charisma attribute, and you need to max those skills out otherwise you lose alot of the boost. Commandships in themselves can be quite nice and can be useful in pvp but lets put it this way, drake after insurance - 20 mil, nighthawk after insurance 200 mill. --------------------------------- There's a simple solution to every problem. It is always invariably wrong
Removal Tool Space Jerks	Posted - 2009.12.12 01:47:00 - [6] As someone with CS level 5 and the ability to fly all races of them,....don't do it. I'd rather be in a Geddon any day.
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2009.12.12 01:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Dogma27 Recently i have been looking at command ships and browsing the forums and the only thing i can discern is that some people love CS's and some people hate them. so my qeustion is, in terms of usefulness over isk, are Command ships worth it? If you ask this way: no, they are probably one of worst ship classes in game. But this aside: depends what you want. If you want to be gang booster (fleet commands) they are quite good for gang survivalability. Nothing (well... t3 does) beats damnation or vulture in armor/shield gangs. But when it comes to field commands... they are just e-peen enlargers like faction ships are. Absolution is easily outdone by geddon, astarte by megathron, NH by normal drake or raven. Only sleipnir is small exception due to good speed (which battleships have hard time rivaling) + nice faloff = heavy vagabond. So... if you want to play gang booster pilot role then go commands, t3 or logistics (tho train gang skills 1st and ship second - you can use gang skills on t1 BC hulls no problem). If you want to pewpew.. not worth it unless you really dont have anything else to train.
Dogma27	Posted - 2009.12.12 02:09:00 - [8] Thanks for the replys I dont think i really want to hop in a CS just yet, I would rather pew pew
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.12 10:59:00 - [9] Just flying a BC is good imo, the Drake, Hurricane and Harbinger are pretty nice gank/tank ships for that ship class. For even more gank/tank (and no mobility) you got BSs. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.12.12 11:10:00 - [10] Originally by: Removal Tool As someone with CS level 5 and the ability to fly all races of them,....don't do it. I'd rather be in a Geddon any day. THIS. A thousand times this. -- Bellum Eternus Inveniam viam aut faciam. Tier 5 Battleships
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2009.12.12 11:19:00 - [11] Do you have a mindlink for the appropriate racial gang mod, at least IV in all other base leadership bonuses, and enough skills to lead (in gang bonus terms, not necessarily FC-ing) the gangs you fly with (or to act as a wing/squad commander if the higher positions are already filled)? If yes, then fly a fleet command ship and be loved by your fleet. Or, if you want more dps with a single gang mod, fly a tier-2 BC with a gang mod. If no, fly a tier-2 BC or HAC or BB. If you have so much extra money to throw away on buying ships that are only marginally better than the alternatives, give it to me instead. ----------- FREE ABATHUR - HAVING GOOD 0.0 IDEAS IS NOT A CRIME.
Grimpak Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2009.12.12 11:34:00 - [12] fleet command ships are very usefull in gang. field command ships, not so quite. only good use I was able to find was for the NH running lvl4's. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
Norveren	Posted - 2009.12.12 19:06:00 - [13] Depends on your wallet and how much is too much to be "worth it". Don't let the naysayers fool you. If you ignore the price tag CS's are VERY good ships. Fleet command ships can provide very nice bonuses to fleets which become invaluable to larger fleets. The problem is you only need so many and they can be replaced by T3 and titans(although they both cost more). Field command ships are better than their T1 counter parts in pretty much every way(not all equally though). My Absolution has killed quite a few BS's 1 on 1 before. My Sleipner is my favorite roaming ship as I can engage just about any target in the game and have a chance of winning or at least escaping. These are not cheap ships and should not be fitted so. So you have to ask yourself. Do you like flying incredibly expensive ships in pvp(I like the thrill it gives)? Can you afford to lose several? If so then you should definitely get one to try out. Only you can decide if a ship is worth it.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2009.12.12 19:24:00 - [14] Remember kiddies that whilst a cs might not be the optimal ship for the fc to train and fly the leadership skills used to organise the fleet and give out those nice 10% non-stacking nerfed skill bonuses moast certainly are. Originally by: Akita T We don't hate people like you, we look at you with mostly pity and a hint of disgust balled up in a big wad of "notto disu shi'tto agen".
Jesslyn Daggererux Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.12.12 19:29:00 - [15] my corp has a love affair with CSs. we all fly them, and generally like them. except me. because i have the astarte. the nighthawk is still a fine ship if you fit it well. dont go out there like its a hac and only t2 fit it. give it a little spice. faction points are nice, maybe web. a faction or deadspace shield booster on a sleip is awesome. i wouldnt do it if your getting the astarte because it lacks a utility high, something it could really use. the abso is pretty good. nighthawk has range, dont listen to people saying it sucks. a little love wouldnt unbalence it, but being able to hit so far away and choosing damage type is great. the sleip is the king. if you want to do a gang mod you really should max skills for it. the benefits are nearly invisible until you plug in a mindlink thanks to massive stacking penalties. Originally by: CCP Fallout Hola, esta forum es ingles solamente. This forum is English only. Welcome to my lock. Now please, zip your pants. I don't need a show.
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2009.12.12 19:32:00 - [16] Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux if you want to do a gang mod you really should max skills for it. the benefits are nearly invisible until you plug in a mindlink thanks to massive stacking penalties. Except for: gang skills and bonuses from warfare mods are not stacking penalized. So your 50% armor hardening legion will give you 50% resist plain on all damage types. This is HUGE advantage.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2009.12.13 00:46:00 - [17] Field Commands could use range bonuses. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal.
Brego Tralowski Gallente Dead space evolution	Posted - 2009.12.17 06:12:00 - [18] I'm Gallente and have been working towards CS for a little while now, with the intention to use it for solo PvP. I will be using one if not both of the CS available to Gallente forces, and I agree with some of the others here and say you need to add plenty of ISK to get the best from it. But i'd rather buy a CS then a SC (which I have had and lost), I could have bought and fitted out several CS for what I paid out on my SC buy meh. I for one am looking forward to getting behind the flightstick of a CS, I would be interested to hear of the other side to this debate, by that I mean people who use them for PvP and not so much fleet support (obviously without high-jacking the OPs thread) as it all helps with the topic, including possibly some fits. Anyway, this is becoming interesting, thaks to all the other guys and gals experience and posts on this thread. ----------------------------------------------- Fly safe, but not too safe!
arbiter reborn	Posted - 2009.12.17 06:35:00 - [19] Edited by: arbiter reborn on 17/12/2009 06:35:49 fleet cs are awesome, bc5 is woth its weight in gold (speaking metaphoricly ) field cs need boosting in lots of ways but there fun expensive toys if you have the isk. (sleip is by far the best) and go damnation or vulture, claymore is only worth it if you run lots of nanogangs, eos is terrible
AgentFruitfly	Posted - 2009.12.17 08:35:00 - [20] Fleet commandships were made obsolete by t3. Field command = matter of personal choice.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2009.12.17 09:26:00 - [21] i can just tell you that the sleipnir is a hell of a lot of fun to fly
VanNostrum Perkone	Posted - 2009.12.17 09:48:00 - [22] if you're looking for supporting your gang a logistics ship would be far better, leaving fleet boosting to BCs with single/double gang links without getting insta-primaried like a CS.
fivetide humidyear Gallente Fool Mental Junket	Posted - 2009.12.17 09:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Deathbarrage i can just tell you that the sleipnir is a hell of a lot of fun to fly this, i know the cost argument, i know the field command argument and i know the battleship argument but dammit it is fun to fly and is now even better than it was in the small gangs i fly in. and if you are going into wormholes lots then battleships have additional issues.
Dursun Idris	Posted - 2009.12.17 10:08:00 - [24] About CS... only "field comm" one i do and can fly is sleipnir. For larger gangs, waiting at safe and give bonuses, fleet commands seems valuable to me. (Not THAT much usefull unless you can sure it's secure btw) About sleipnir... I think it's a real good gunboat - without comm bonus. You can gang with a rapier and a scout, camp a gate and easyly pick other small gangs and prey on unfortunate victims, even though ones. Here is my fit, not perfect but i think it's good especially paired with a rapier. [Sleipnir, gunboat] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Booster II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400 Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Improved Cloaking Device II Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I 680+ gun dps, 820 dps with drones ,48k ehp and 442 peak tank. 1310 m/s with mwd. Cap lasts enough for most cases. Imp cloacking device can be changed with a prototype one for getting 425mm's. It means extra faloff and 40 more dps. Yes vaga is faster , and some other BC may do the job. But not with agility or tanking of sleipnir. The isk cost you pay is up to you decide.
Deathbarrage	Posted - 2009.12.17 10:18:00 - [25] Originally by: Dursun Idris About CS... only "field comm" one i do and can fly is sleipnir. For larger gangs, waiting at safe and give bonuses, fleet commands seems valuable to me. (Not THAT much usefull unless you can sure it's secure btw) About sleipnir... I think it's a real good gunboat - without comm bonus. You can gang with a rapier and a scout, camp a gate and easyly pick other small gangs and prey on unfortunate victims, even though ones. Here is my fit, not perfect but i think it's good especially paired with a rapier. [Sleipnir, gunboat] Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Gyrostabilizer II Tracking Enhancer II Damage Control II 10MN MicroWarpdrive II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Booster II Medium Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 400 Large F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M 220mm Vulcan AutoCannon II, Republic Fleet EMP M Improved Cloaking Device II Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I Medium Core Defence Operational Solidifier I 680+ gun dps, 820 dps with drones ,48k ehp and 442 peak tank. 1310 m/s with mwd. Cap lasts enough for most cases. Imp cloacking device can be changed with a prototype one for getting 425mm's. It means extra faloff and 40 more dps. Yes vaga is faster , and some other BC may do the job. But not with agility or tanking of sleipnir. The isk cost you pay is up to you decide. Meh tbh sleipnir needs an xl 7x 220, 1x med nos mwd, point, xl, invul, booster 3x gyro, cpu, dcu 2x cap safeguard 4x hammerhead About the nos: most people will say go neut but it's saved my arse a number of times against tempests and others who fitted neuts. If you're rolling with a gang and wanna go dps you can leave the 8th high open i think, go with 425's and maybe even drop the cpu, try it, have fun, sleipnir is awesome Also don't fit barrage you chicken**** that's what a vaga is for
arbiter reborn	Posted - 2009.12.17 10:38:00 - [26] Originally by: Dursun Idris tl:dr [Sleipnir, gunboat] ** setup x-large or go home tbh, my drake would ** that
Dursun Idris	Posted - 2009.12.17 11:42:00 - [27] Originally by: arbiter reborn Originally by: Dursun Idris tl:dr [Sleipnir, gunboat] ** setup x-large or go home tbh, my drake would that I wonder how is your fit, saying a drake will ** sleip. In order to fit x-large, i have to a) drop cloacking b) fit smaller guns and a prototype cloack c) fit cpu buff(not gonna happen) d) drop a gyro or dcii (?!)(replaced by nano) and use prot. claock. a is not even an option for the way i use it - pick target blow it up and hide. b) i'm uncomfortable about this with same reason with a. And cap lasts like 30-40 seconds... I am well aware of thet it may be not a perfect fit, but works excellent with the way i use. Still, if you got any suggestion about an x-large fit, feel free to share. I am using sleip for guerilla warfare, not "in your face" or "hit me baby one more time". (Yes yes go for a hac... but while they are fast at m/s thye are not that fast when blowing up things. Yet not a bs for "run away" part.)
Muad' Dib Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2009.12.17 13:39:00 - [28] Fleet commands do have very good use, as T3 cannot mount up to 6-7 gang links. But it takes lots of SP invested in charisma primary skills. Overall i think i put about 13.5m SP in fleet command specific skills so far. :( --- I smack just for myself. Allow faction cap boosters to be traded via normal market !
Draulin Gallente Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.12.17 13:42:00 - [29] I don't like battleships, so I fly a Nighthawk, and plan on flying a Sleipnir as well in a few months. I find it very worthwhile myself, but it depends on if you like battleships or not, or if you are going to command fleets, etc.
Inertial The Scope	Posted - 2009.12.17 13:47:00 - [30] I am training for the sleipnir atm. Around 1000 DPS tank with Crystals and around 800-900 DPS makes it worth it in my book.

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