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A warning for all the new players - Suicide ganking

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Kambiri Zoltana Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.15 12:45:00 - [31] Originally by: Draulin Originally by: Exaron I like it that most people are more afraid of Jita than Tama or Rancer :P Rancer? I fly my Prowler through there on my way to Jita from Hek all the time. I only once was hit by a battleship spamming smartbombs, and it took a minor sliver of shields as I warped out. Is it a big trap area because of its location in that low sec Sinq passage from Hek to Jita? Ya not like its a big achievement when you have a covert ops cloak.
Pookie McPook	Posted - 2009.12.15 12:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Project3786 I know i am new to this game, but why do people do these things in hiSec. All it does it take people away from the game. If i was on my trial account and was in hisec and lost a good amount of stuff, i probably wouldnt anymore. Does anyone care that this loses potential players. I mean look at the stats, 50k online at the most, while other games protect newbs much better and do increasingly better.Don't get me wrong, I like eve, I just think there should be certain places, like high sec where you cant get destroyed. Flame away. No disrespect to you as others have already reiterrated the mantra that nowhere is safe in EVE. However, I would be totally opposed to any changes being made to the relative safety of various sectors of space. I tend to believe that the only people who are driven away by these actions are the kind of people who wouldn't last long in the game whatever the safety criteria were set at. Some people are better off in offline or standalone games. This is an online MMO with emphasis on PVP. People have to learn to play the games to which they are best suited and stop trying to make every game some kind of clone of what they would prefer it to be. This is the way EVE is. Deal with it or else move on with no recriminations. -----
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.12.15 13:05:00 - [33] Quote: While the exact way in wich such people are able to stay in highsec space without getting blown up is unknown to me(but someone will surely explain it around here), There are multiple ways to easily circumvent security status. A -10 sec character with proper alts could gank all day long in high sec with no special issues. Quote: Thus, I stayed in highsec, scanned down some juicy exploration sites, and went under the noses of the suicide gankers, with my juicy billion isk loot safely stashed in the cargohold of a corporate alt's tech3 ship(90% all resists). I'm willing to bet there's a spatial cataclysm there that can blow up that vessel in highsec somehow, looking forward to be amazed at the effort put up for the lulz. The effort comes almost for free, since the relevant ships for greater attacks (freighters and other bigger / defended ships) cost less to make than the insurance you get for suiciding them. Moreover, tech 1 modules are often all what's needed to get those 2-3 shots off and kill the target before Concord arrives. The 2-3 shots are done with faction ammo, but being 2-3 shots per turret the cost is quite limited. Quote: I mean look at the stats, 50k online at the most, while other games protect newbs much better and do increasingly better. EvE is about unconsensual PvP. Moreover it does not simulate an harsh universe with simulated douche bags. It is an harsh universe with real douche bags :D Moreover hi sec does not mean safety. Hi sec means retribution. Quote: I like it that most people are more afraid of Jita than Tama or Rancer Because in Rancer you can go when you need to fit ships for cheap. There's usually some half looted wrecks where you can get T2 mods for free. Of course if you don't know what you are doing, you could become the next half looted wreck but that's EvE for you. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
KWyz	Posted - 2009.12.15 14:53:00 - [34] Edited by: KWyz on 15/12/2009 14:53:25 At no point was I whining about being suicide ganked. Sure, I wish that guy and all the other gankers would grow testes on the soles of their feet, but I feel that rather than ranting away about the legitimacy found in the mechanic of having a -10 sec status character in a region in wich he shouldn't be, it'd be more effective to simply warn people about it, and not be a target. Whining doesn't really do much(altough some people have struggled to argument the fact that for such an "unlawful" conduct, the penalty is minor at best) - look at all the people yelling about level 4 missions and the nerf that's so coming to them in a far away future.
Draulin Gallente Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.12.15 18:05:00 - [35] Originally by: Kambiri Zoltana Ya not like its a big achievement when you have a covert ops cloak. English must not be your first language. I was asking questions about a system I've been through many times, but seen little evidence of real danger. Question, with a question mark at the end. Got it?
Joe Stalin Unknown-Entity Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2009.12.30 00:00:00 - [36] You people obsessed with the lack of safety in high sec make me laugh. This game is different from all other MMO's in the fact that at its core Eve is a PVP game. You guys then get the slightest taste of PVP and complain about how CCP is somehow letting you down LOL
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2009.12.30 09:43:00 - [37] Originally by: Joe Stalin You people obsessed with the lack of safety in high sec make me laugh. This game is different from all other MMO's in the fact that at its core Eve is a PVP game. You guys then get the slightest taste of PVP and complain about how CCP is somehow letting you down LOL What Joe means is that EVE actively goes after the lowest dregs of the online gaming world to come and play EVE. The liars, cheats, scammers, griefers and other assorted s****that have been banned from every other MMO they have grabbed a free trial in. The main incentives that CCP has are the "Grief for Free" plan (insurance) and next up is the "Two Weeks Gankfest" plan (free trial). You have a couple of options. You can wardec the gank corps and they will dock up for however long the wardec lasts, giving some small measure of peace for a week or two, or you can become one of them. You can become one of the Perimeter gate vultures that are too afraid even of ganking helpless ships and just dash in and loot the victims before the gankers hauler gets to them. Or you can throw on some extenders or plates as needed for the ship you are running and simply ignore them. As long as you understand this and play accordingly, you will be fine. Mr Epeen
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2009.12.30 15:54:00 - [38] Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Joe Stalin You people obsessed with the lack of safety in high sec make me laugh. This game is different from all other MMO's in the fact that at its core Eve is a PVP game. You guys then get the slightest taste of PVP and complain about how CCP is somehow letting you down LOL What Joe means is that EVE actively goes after the lowest dregs of the online gaming world to come and play EVE. The liars, cheats, scammers, griefers and other assorted s****that have been banned from every other MMO they have grabbed a free trial in. The main incentives that CCP has are the "Grief for Free" plan (insurance) and next up is the "Two Weeks Gankfest" plan (free trial). You have a couple of options. You can wardec the gank corps and they will dock up for however long the wardec lasts, giving some small measure of peace for a week or two, or you can become one of them. You can become one of the Perimeter gate vultures that are too afraid even of ganking helpless ships and just dash in and loot the victims before the gankers hauler gets to them. Or you can throw on some extenders or plates as needed for the ship you are running and simply ignore them. As long as you understand this and play accordingly, you will be fine. Mr Epeen U mad? If y'all think suicide ganking is such a problem, I have an exceptionally simple solution--Move to low sec and 0.0. As far as I am concerned suicide ganking provides the much needed risk to high sec and acts as a leveling mechanism (see the anthropological context) to prevent people from fitting/carrying more than they are willing to lose. Otherwise carry on these tears are absolutely beautiful. Praise the Scottish Fold!! PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Bouchement	Posted - 2009.12.30 16:26:00 - [39] Originally by: KWyz I'm writing this topic to warn all new players, or those who have somehow not been plagued in one way or another by this evil, out of the many in EVE. Suicide ganking is real, and it can happen at any time you leave yourself exposed. This is how the killboard of a professional suicide ganker looks like. See how many ships he has taken down in the past few days, and be warned. He is not alone. They all use heavily buffer tanked ship, and eight large smartbombs of the cheapest kind. Once they catch news of a suitable prey on the way to their system, they wait for it at a gate, and engage the smartbombs once the target arrives. The smartbombs are not triggered all at once, but rather one after the other, so that if a ship is destroyed, the pilot's pod will be blown up almost immediately. This is a danger not only for the targeted ship, but for any unfortunate bystanders. Small ships, pods, shuttles can all be obliterated like this. CONCORD will not respond in time to prevent the ganker from destroying such targets, and because smarbombs are not targeted weapons, jamming the ship that activates them has no effect whatsoever on its damage output. I myself was not familliar with this type of ganking until I was struck by this two days in a row. I got away the first time thanks to my assault frigate's high resists on the smartbomb's damage, but the second time I made the foolish mistake of going alt-tab for a jump and leaving the autopilot on. This was my scanning ship, a Heron. In it's cargo hold I had almost 40 mils worth of ammunition, OPEs, rigs and probes, stuff I had gathered for a wormhole trip. The ship was also fitted with a Sister's core probe launcher. In all, I had more than 100 mil isk of damage done to me, also losing clone implants. Take this as a warning. Be careful how you thread, especially close to Jita.Do not expose yourselves like I did. Use sturdy ships for your trips, or warp to 0 every time. Do not carry too much expensive cargo in unprotected ships. NEVER travel to Jita in your pod. Good luck to you all, fly safe.
Cearain	Posted - 2009.12.30 21:01:00 - [40] Edited by: Cearain on 30/12/2009 21:01:15 Noob question: Don't the smart bombs blow up the wrecks too? How can you loot the ships if the wrecks get blown up?

Kahega Amielden Minmatar Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.30 21:11:00 - [41] Quote: I mean look at the stats, 50k online at the most, while other games protect newbs much better and do increasingly better. No. EVE is actually one of the most successful MMOs in terms of number of people playing.
KWyz	Posted - 2009.12.30 21:49:00 - [42] Pertinent question about the wreck. Seeing as how my ship was targeted for its cargo, and left behind a small, frigate-sized wreck, it seems that the damage needed to pod me was in fact far from sufficient to blow up the wreck itself. That would explain how two goals can be achieved in one boom. And of course there is also the possibility that the ganker actually cared little for the wreck itsel(as you can see there, all the valuables got blown up). Wich would fully justify the offset smartbombs, meant to also destroy the pilots pod and inflicting the most damage isk wise.
Draulin Gallente Independent Faction	Posted - 2009.12.30 21:58:00 - [43] Seriously, this is why we have transports, hard to gank! Maybe intended for low/null sec, but I've had multiple attempts against my transports that have failed in high sec.
Niko Takahashi	Posted - 2009.12.30 22:43:00 - [44] 1 While I have no problem with suicide ganking hell I do it on occasion my self if we are bored I do have problem with insurance and it should be removed form the game. 2 People that do stupid things as fly a no tank osprey cruised full of BPOs on autopilot in the shoot out alley aka amarr to jita corridor deserve to loose their **. 3 Said that even with all the fancy shmancy tutorials and guides CCP never mentions the security mechanics or aggro timers or any other material that is related to this subject. Imagine this you are in a combat ship you new you undock you get attacked. Natural human reaction is to shoot back even though if you outnumbered because of some info window that blinks through 100 of dmg notifications you didnt have time to read says you cant dock. Or someone explaining somewhere in tutorial how the mechanincs and profitability of suicide ganking work. For new person they never mention that high sec unless wardecced is not safe just safer. See If you are told in the tutorial that don't do that and you do it and get killed most ppl tend go ok stupid me. But IF you dont get told and only thing you get after you post in the forums is hahaha stupid carebear go to play WOW to suxxor you say ** this game is full of boso's It is just bad biz IMO for CCP its not about dumbing the game down it is about listing the rules clearly.
Mooncat Slayer	Posted - 2010.01.01 23:42:00 - [45] if anyones moaning come to jita and ill make you moan v loud indeed :)
CAPTAIN OBVI0US	Posted - 2010.01.03 13:00:00 - [46] Here is an alternate method that some of my friends have been using; to achieve the same result: 1) Create a trial account 2) Train up for +3 implants and install them (22m isk) 3) Train for a domi+large proton smartbomb I (6 days, 15m isk) 4) purchase and insure a dominix; with some cheap 1600mm plates (55m) 5) fly to jita (free!) 6) stage an alt 2 jumps out of jita to scan the cargo-hold of t1 industrials 7) boom If your successful, the first run costs you 92m isk, and can net upwards of 2b isk. You will be able to do 4 runs before your standing is too low to be in empire. Delete and go to step 1. You can create SEVERAL trial accounts at the same time; so you always have a few chars ready for this. I'm am posting this; in hopes that CCP follows common sense, and removes insurance payouts for CONCORD kills. V/r, Anonymous
Irdia Freelancer	Posted - 2010.01.03 18:29:00 - [47] Ccp had a discussion about insurance in the ideas forum years ago suggsting similar about not paying insurance for concord losses. Only thing you can assume is ccp feels that creating free trail accounts and ganking is "working as intended". The comments were that if a new player accidently shot an object that got them concorded (which has a warning) and lost their ship they would want insurance. Yet what I see is many more gank for insurance than new players losing ships so we must presume its working as intended ... I would suggest taking it slightly further. If you have a ship with say a -10 amarr standing so shoot on sight in amarr space, then loss in amarr space should also be no insurance. Anyone who has a standing that low should have the consequences of being bad to get those standings. But thats not pro-pirate so ccp wont change it. PS the costing for the battleship was a bit out. Can't train battleship on trial account so will need to pick up a plex which is about 270 mil spread over like 3 characters = about double cost suggested. You can buy a plex, gank till standing drops, delete and repeat all on the same account.
Ran Khanon Amarr The Phantom Acolytes	Posted - 2010.01.03 19:25:00 - [48] Edited by: Ran Khanon on 03/01/2010 19:31:42 Edited by: Ran Khanon on 03/01/2010 19:30:47 Originally by: Project3786 I know i am new to this game, but why do people do these things in hiSec. All it does it take people away from the game. If i was on my trial account and was in hisec and lost a good amount of stuff, i probably wouldnt anymore. Does anyone care that this loses potential players. I mean look at the stats, 50k online at the most, while other games protect newbs much better and do increasingly better.Don't get me wrong, I like eve, I just think there should be certain places, like high sec where you cant get destroyed. Flame away. Try to see it differently. If there would be no danger whatsoever of non-consensual pvp in hi-sec, there would be a whole lot less excitement in the general hisec, pve part of this game. If I am hauling goods to sell in a large tradehub I am always just a little bit afraid of suicide ganking so I take precautions and fit stabs and as much tank as I can possibly do and during the trip I am very vigilant; that diminishes the chance that bad stuff will happen for quite a bit. The alternative would be: Activating autopilot and going afk to make a nice peanut butter sandwich. Same with missioning: If I find myself in a field of large wrecks from a lvl4 mission, I make haste to hop in my salvager as soon as the last ship drops and reel everything in (possibly including mission item,) as quick as possible; you never know when a ninja-salvager/looter-ganker shows up. The alternative; A total lack of excitement with not the slightest bit of unpredictability (missions don't change) and not much of a chance on ever interacting with other people in your solo missions either. Same with mining: Without the occasional can-flipping or suicide ganking the gameplay would ONLY consist of you, some digital rocks and a spawn of rats at predictable times without any chance on anything out of the ordinary happening. Conclusion: the hisec community NEEDS a certain amount of 'player-danger' to keep the game interesting by retaining a degree of uncertainty; just as much as the ebil pirate and thieving community needs the good masses to have people to pray on. It is a cosmical balance which shouldn't be disturbed least you want to hurt both groups. ooohhhmmm Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Magos Fabricator	Posted - 2010.01.03 21:35:00 - [49] Originally by: CAPTAIN OBVI0US Here is an alternate method that some of my friends have been using; to achieve the same result: 1) Create a trial account ..... 4) purchase and insure a dominix; with some cheap 1600mm plates (55m) You can't train/fly battleships on trial accounts
Kalexander	Posted - 2010.01.04 02:36:00 - [50] Edited by: Kalexander on 04/01/2010 02:37:31 Part of the fun of this game, is knowing those risks are out there. Its fun to calculate those risks, make smart decisions based on them, and act out your plan. If you make it out of these situations, it stimulates you, and if you are on the tail end of a bad gank, it stimulates you to do it better next time. Either way, we all need to accept that its part of the fun. Don't fly stuff you can't afford to lose, and don't haul your whole bank roll either and you'll never feel bad about being caught in the wrong type of scenario. EDIT I would like to note that it was a gate camp in low sec, that killed my first industrial while I was still on trial trying to capitalize on a buy low scenario that actually CAUSED me to register. Getting blown up that day was the single coolest thing to me that rammed home the idea that what you do in Eve matters. Go for the big score, but it just may come at a price!

Jerreie	Posted - 2010.01.04 09:38:00 - [51] Originally by: Captain Pompous Edited by: Captain Pompous on 12/12/2009 17:42:38 lol e: Good post though. Some good advice for newbies. What "newbie" flies around in a frigate with over a hundred mil worth of stuff? More of a warning to stupids than newbies.
Kaian Voskhod	Posted - 2010.01.04 10:58:00 - [52] Well suicide gank is what i fear the most. I fly an expensive pimped ship, very effective in L4, very strong active tank but very poor buffer. Only 20 000 EHP ...
KWyz	Posted - 2010.01.04 11:11:00 - [53] What newbie flies with 100mils worth of stuff on him? How about the tens of people who farm ded 1s daily, often delivering them to Jita. You know, I thought I might be in danger GOING to jita filled with faction loot and other such crap. But no, I had to be blown up on my way out of there, carrying rigs, heavy missiles, shield hardeners, and some ope's worth in all 30 mils.The most valuable piece of hardware was the sister's scan probe launcher. And it all got blown up. Even then I had so much cash the monetary loss wasn't a problem, but the pain in the ass of gathering the materials again hurt. This makes me think I probably wasn't even a target. Of course, back then I had no idea that it costs NOTHING to suicide gank.
Mocam	Posted - 2010.01.04 13:23:00 - [54] Originally by: Project3786 I know i am new to this game, but why do people do these things in hiSec. All it does it take people away from the game. If i was on my trial account and was in hisec and lost a good amount of stuff, i probably wouldn't anymore. Does anyone care that this loses potential players. I mean look at the stats, 50k online at the most, while other games protect newbs much better and do increasingly better.Don't get me wrong, I like eve, I just think there should be certain places, like high sec where you cant get destroyed. Flame away. No flame. It's tricky to explain. First off "highsec" is not "newbie land" and nowhere is totally safe. The closer you are to the startup areas, the safer you are and the less you'll find interesting to do. Even the nastiest types in the game won't go there and blow up the newest players. CCP gets a bit nasty about new folks not being allowed to learn in the tutorial areas but beyond there... welcome to the game. Jita is the main trade hub in the game. It's an over-priced shopping mall where pretty much everything and anything can be found to buy or sell. As such, blowing folks up heading in or out of there has a really good chance of getting you whatever they may be carrying. If you were looking to be a thieving pirate, a con man or general harassment type -- where in the game would you try and setup your operations? That's right -- the main area where most with money to spend and products to sell head... So it's one of the most dangerous places in highsec and seriously -- you'll rarely find "bargains" there. Most "great deals!" are scams or cons so buyer beware. The draw is because you just don't have to go anywhere else to find the stuff you're looking for, so you pay a healthy convenience price as well as a lot of risks with the scams, cons and pirate types.
Jessica Lanson Port Hercules	Posted - 2010.01.04 13:24:00 - [55] Edited by: Jessica Lanson on 04/01/2010 13:25:41 Originally by: CAPTAIN OBVI0US Here is an alternate method that some of my friends have been using; to achieve the same result: 1) Create a trial account 2) Train up for +3 implants and install them (22m isk) 3) Train for a domi+large proton smartbomb I (6 days, 15m isk) 4) purchase and insure a dominix; with some cheap 1600mm plates (55m) 5) fly to jita (free!) 6) stage an alt 2 jumps out of jita to scan the cargo-hold of t1 industrials 7) boom You will be able to do 4 runs before your standing is too low to be in empire. Delete and go to step 1. You can create SEVERAL trial accounts at the same time; so you always have a few chars ready for this. First, trials cannot fly battleships so how you are even doing this is beyond me. Second, you are using an exploit. Discussion of how or why it is an exploit will bring down the wrath of the forum mods so I will just quote and link the post here by a GM on the subject. Originally by: GM Grimmi Our stance towards recycling "disposable alts" for purposes such as suicide ganking or summoning CONCORD for bodyguard duty is that it is an exploit, clear and simple. http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=818978&page=2#43


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