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Zill The Scope	Posted - 2009.12.17 06:21:00 - [1] Edited by: Zill on 17/12/2009 06:23:34 Ok so here it is, last 3 days I've been hunting Solar fleet hulks (an pretty much any other hulk I can find), seen a lot of bubbles in my travels an I notice a trend now. CONTAINERS!!.... It seems the trend towards this borderline exploit in pvp has taken hold,an I gotta say as cov ops pilot it basically neuters us instantly. Every time I went near a Russian system yesterday I saw multiple cans on a gate inside bubbles. Now it isn't just the Russian's/Solar lads doing it, its everyone pretty much... Cost me a ship last night in a situation I would have got the kill but a 100 isk container killed me ??? Kinda cheap if you ask me, hehe but oh well, I don't know if it can be called an exploit, but it defiantly is 100% guaranteed SB/Recon killer. For that alone I think they need to remove the 2k barrier on cloak. Otherwise it's almost guaranteed we cant move when doing our jobs :D SO what do people think, is it a good tactic, or is it cheap...not that that would stop anyone, but I am on borderline of calling it an exploit an calling it sound tactical sence.. Dont waste time abusing me or using silly names, this is only a discussion in the validity of the tactic, nothing more ok.
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.17 07:02:00 - [2] It's a valid tactic, easily avoidable unless taken to the extreme. If they start using 50+ just petition them as it's considered an exploit. Coverts are easy enough to fly as it is, even with a few cans you should never be caught. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2009.12.17 07:18:00 - [3] Unless they are deployed specifically to induce lag (requires lots and lots) it is a perfectly valid defense against cloakers. Cans are temporary after all, they will vanish on their own inside 2 hrs if jet-cans, and after a month max if unused anchorable. Since wrecks (or do they?) and corpses no longer decloak the coverts the options a bubble camp commander has to decloak people is rather limited .. a can on the bubble in line with most celestials does the trick.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.17 07:34:00 - [4] Edited by: Marko Riva on 17/12/2009 07:34:32 Any covops pilot NOT having gate BM's for systems he intends to visit frequently (or has visited) deserves exactly what he gets. Making those BM's costs time and effort but, per OP is very much worth it and is needed when you're following a hostile fleet anyway. No BM's, no glory. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Randomina Randomona	Posted - 2009.12.17 07:35:00 - [5] Originally by: Zill Edited by: Zill on 17/12/2009 06:23:34 Ok so here it is, last 3 days I've been hunting Solar fleet hulks (an pretty much any other hulk I can find), seen a lot of bubbles in my travels an I notice a trend now. CONTAINERS!!.... It seems the trend towards this borderline exploit in pvp has taken hold,an I gotta say as cov ops pilot it basically neuters us instantly. Every time I went near a Russian system yesterday I saw multiple cans on a gate inside bubbles. Now it isn't just the Russian's/Solar lads doing it, its everyone pretty much... Cost me a ship last night in a situation I would have got the kill but a 100 isk container killed me ??? Kinda cheap if you ask me, hehe but oh well, I don't know if it can be called an exploit, but it defiantly is 100% guaranteed SB/Recon killer. For that alone I think they need to remove the 2k barrier on cloak. Otherwise it's almost guaranteed we cant move when doing our jobs :D SO what do people think, is it a good tactic, or is it cheap...not that that would stop anyone, but I am on borderline of calling it an exploit an calling it sound tactical sence.. Dont waste time abusing me or using silly names, this is only a discussion in the validity of the tactic, nothing more ok. Petition this, as it is an exploit. Have had ships reimbursed when others have used these types of exploits.
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.17 08:03:00 - [6] Originally by: Randomina Randomona Originally by: Zill Edited by: Zill on 17/12/2009 06:23:34 Ok so here it is, last 3 days I've been hunting Solar fleet hulks (an pretty much any other hulk I can find), seen a lot of bubbles in my travels an I notice a trend now. CONTAINERS!!.... It seems the trend towards this borderline exploit in pvp has taken hold,an I gotta say as cov ops pilot it basically neuters us instantly. Every time I went near a Russian system yesterday I saw multiple cans on a gate inside bubbles. Now it isn't just the Russian's/Solar lads doing it, its everyone pretty much... Cost me a ship last night in a situation I would have got the kill but a 100 isk container killed me ??? Kinda cheap if you ask me, hehe but oh well, I don't know if it can be called an exploit, but it defiantly is 100% guaranteed SB/Recon killer. For that alone I think they need to remove the 2k barrier on cloak. Otherwise it's almost guaranteed we cant move when doing our jobs :D SO what do people think, is it a good tactic, or is it cheap...not that that would stop anyone, but I am on borderline of calling it an exploit an calling it sound tactical sence.. Dont waste time abusing me or using silly names, this is only a discussion in the validity of the tactic, nothing more ok. Petition this, as it is an exploit. Have had ships reimbursed when others have used these types of exploits. A few cans is not an exploit, only when it's used for lag. You're a little baby. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Lord Xanthoh	Posted - 2009.12.17 08:18:00 - [7] Edited by: Lord Xanthoh on 17/12/2009 08:20:53 It cost me once a SB as well. Imo if CCP wanted to get more people into 00 (and this invlude solo or small gangs), these would be the two things they should fix: - remove cans from gate proximity (there is a very good reason why ships are cloaked after a jump and that is definately not to be uncloaked by a can). - remove bubbles from gate proximity (this is a major turn off for anyone who is only interested to venture into 00). I am saying this as a solo/smallgang pirate. Getting more people into 00 would offer the game so much more diversity and diminish the amount of blobs as people wont need to form such huge groups anymore; at least not some casual roaming. Anyways, flame away. Ps: wont fix any typos as I am mobile. Your friendly pirate
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.17 08:36:00 - [8] Originally by: Lord Xanthoh Edited by: Lord Xanthoh on 17/12/2009 08:20:53 It cost me once a SB as well. Imo if CCP wanted to get more people into 00 (and this invlude solo or small gangs), these would be the two things they should fix: - remove cans from gate proximity (there is a very good reason why ships are cloaked after a jump and that is definately not to be uncloaked by a can). - remove bubbles from gate proximity (this is a major turn off for anyone who is only interested to venture into 00). I am saying this as a solo/smallgang pirate. Getting more people into 00 would offer the game so much more diversity and diminish the amount of blobs as people wont need to form such huge groups anymore; at least not some casual roaming. Anyways, flame away. Ps: wont fix any typos as I am mobile. Your friendly pirate Stop being a little baby, 0.0 is fine. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Zill The Scope	Posted - 2009.12.17 08:53:00 - [9] Edited by: Zill on 17/12/2009 08:55:07 I always make Z jumps when I enter a new region, but I had not been into Curse in a long time, so I had no BM's... I jumped to 100k an forgot the dam magnetic like ability of bubbles to drag me to the gate instantly from such a distance ???. I was going to attack a rapier when I saw the crate coming at me, an new his buddies were gonna get me... I guess I can see the tactic works but there's lots of other ways to stop us. Doing what we did in XXdeath where you put 5-6 bubbles on an around a gate is a surefire way of slowing ppl down...The fact most people put cans only on the approach is strange to me, once we (CovOp's) have a system mapped out, we can jump A,B,C an land on the top of a gate an be gone instantly (none ever bubbles the top of a gate). But even 3-4 cans can shut down a system to cov ops...."IF" they don't have it mapped, but just getting into the system can be hectic since they often times put cans on the warpin point. Flying recon an having to get into a system to run a drop can be really annoying when you have to run the risk of dam cans.
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.17 09:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Zill Edited by: Zill on 17/12/2009 08:55:07 I always make Z jumps when I enter a new region, but I had not been into Curse in a long time, so I had no BM's... I jumped to 100k an forgot the dam magnetic like ability of bubbles to drag me to the gate instantly from such a distance ???. I was going to attack a rapier when I saw the crate coming at me, an new his buddies were gonna get me... I guess I can see the tactic works but there's lots of other ways to stop us. Doing what we did in XXdeath where you put 5-6 bubbles on an around a gate is a surefire way of slowing ppl down...The fact most people put cans only on the approach is strange to me, once we (CovOp's) have a system mapped out, we can jump A,B,C an land on the top of a gate an be gone instantly (none ever bubbles the top of a gate). But even 3-4 cans can shut down a system to cov ops...."IF" they don't have it mapped, but just getting into the system can be hectic since they often times put cans on the warpin point. Flying recon an having to get into a system to run a drop can be really annoying when you have to run the risk of dam cans. You warped to an unscouted gate. You have no one to blame but yourself. Burn out your cap, get within scan range, warp from a celestial that is off to the side and unlikely to be bubbled and canned out. Running camps is extremely easy with coverts, I've never been caught doing it. Absolutely no change is needed at all. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.

Mr Albour	Posted - 2009.12.17 09:17:00 - [11] BECAUSE OF CONTAINERS
Lenartowicz Hive Bound Technologies	Posted - 2009.12.17 09:33:00 - [12] 5 or more cans is an exploit
Zill The Scope	Posted - 2009.12.17 09:41:00 - [13] The Whole can thing is realistically only new thing in wide use, I only ever saw it occasionally up till 6 months ago. I don't get caught often, I've played this game a very long time, so it isn't new to me :). Unscouted systems are a fact of life for us, I am sure you'll agree, eventually we have to go in to map it yer?... so the risk is always there.
elorran Minmatar Department of Defence THE R0NIN	Posted - 2009.12.17 12:36:00 - [14] I remember when corpses were the decloaker of choice. Scatter them around gates and at warp in points, and still expect half the people that warped in not to even have them turned on to display on the overview. - - Department of Defence's Peeping Tom
K'racker Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.12.17 14:17:00 - [15] Originally by: Lenartowicz 5 or more cans is an exploit Documentation? link to GM ruling or thread where GM states 5+ is an exploit plz. didn't think so..
Bouchement	Posted - 2009.12.17 14:24:00 - [16] WHOSE RESPONSIBLE THIS
Davina Braben	Posted - 2009.12.17 14:44:00 - [17] Petition it and see what they say. No GM post here means this thread is pretty useless.
Don Pellegrino Helljumpers Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.12.17 18:42:00 - [18] Sadly for you, this is a perfectly valid tactic. 0.0 is not for cool kids in pimped out ships that think they're invincible. Being cloaked doesn't make you invincible, if you jump and reappear next to a can, MWD out of its range and cloak right after. If you land in a bubble, it's your own fault for not knowing how to use the directional scanner.
Cattegirn Rampant SR	Posted - 2009.12.17 19:08:00 - [19] Edited by: Cattegirn on 17/12/2009 19:08:20 Without any such thing as being able to mine (no, not the ore garnering kind) space, it seems okay. A preferable solution would be a real mine mechanic. What do you CovOps guys think in light of that? Rampant Corp - Strategy Articles and PVP Training
Gibbo3771	Posted - 2009.12.17 19:29:00 - [20] when you guys warp into a drag bubble in a cov ops, if there is no cans do you still get decloaked I always get decloaked even if there is no cans lol

Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.17 19:40:00 - [21] I have an overview setting that shows EVERYTHING which I aptly called "@@STRESS@@" because I'd probably have some. The at-signs make sure it's always the top overview setting and make it easy to select if I'm crapping my pants. I set my "keep at range" to 50km and if I land in a load of trouble but still cloaked I'll switch to my stress overview and if there's something really close to me, uncomfortably close, and I don't have the time to figure out where it is and what a safe route would be out of that mess I'd simply highlight the closest thing and do "keep at range". ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Angeltara Black Rise Angels Distant Drums	Posted - 2009.12.17 20:06:00 - [22] Good ideas....I should try these tactics more since they seem to be very popular, and produce the sweetest tears.
Phunket	Posted - 2009.12.17 20:09:00 - [23] Originally by: Don Pellegrino Sadly for you, this is a perfectly valid tactic. 0.0 is not for cool kids in pimped out ships that think they're invincible. Being cloaked doesn't make you invincible, if you jump and reappear next to a can, MWD out of its range and cloak right after. If you land in a bubble, it's your own fault for not knowing how to use the directional scanner. Actually using more than 6 cans at the gates is considered an exploit and not a valid tactic. For GM confirmation all you have to do is set them up and enjoy ur temporary ban.
Zill The Scope	Posted - 2009.12.17 22:29:00 - [24] I dont think I have had any "tears" at all ? lol I only wanted to post it as a query to see what other cov ops thought. I am well aquainted on how to move in 0.0, but at some point we all have to enter unmapped systems. I had only just done a hunting session in AAA,Solar Fleet,Prov an had passed multiple bubbles,so I am neither a "newbe" or a "cool kid" :) (though I have to admit in 6 years I had never considered using celestial to get a beed on a warp) nice idea...
K'racker Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.12.18 02:34:00 - [25] Edited by: K''racker on 18/12/2009 02:42:31 Originally by: Phunket Actually using more than 6 cans at the gates is considered an exploit and not a valid tactic. For GM confirmation all you have to do is set them up and enjoy ur temporary ban. i'd rather see something as i asked for; GM ruling or link to a thread where a GM states +/- x cans is an exploit. you can't provide that either. aside from using cans to induce lag, i've never seen a written GM ruling about jetting cans being an exploit. some of you may have had 'field rulings' from a GM in local or a petition reply. afaik only a senior GM can declare something an exploit. the others just want to get the petition closed. camping a gate, where players were jetting cans around it. a GM came in local, removed the cans, and told us if we jetted any more, there'd be bans. based on that ruling, you can't jet any cans. players jetting cans around a station to stop undocking caps aligning. it was petitioned, and the ruling back was 'they can jettison as many as they like'. based on that ruling, you can jet unlimited cans. aside from causing lag, the motivation doesn't matter. so those that said 5, more than 5, 6, or whatever. a local ruling is not ccp policy. and NOBODY in this thread is able to link what the actual amount, if there is one, is. p.s. first person to say 'use eve-search' gets a voodoo doll pin in the stomach.
Don Pellegrino Helljumpers Aeternus.	Posted - 2009.12.18 04:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Phunket Originally by: Don Pellegrino Sadly for you, this is a perfectly valid tactic. 0.0 is not for cool kids in pimped out ships that think they're invincible. Being cloaked doesn't make you invincible, if you jump and reappear next to a can, MWD out of its range and cloak right after. If you land in a bubble, it's your own fault for not knowing how to use the directional scanner. Actually using more than 6 cans at the gates is considered an exploit and not a valid tactic. For GM confirmation all you have to do is set them up and enjoy ur temporary ban. I know that more than 6 is considered to be an exploit. I was refering to the action of anchoring cans to decloak people. Note that I didn't say "spam cans".
Rascael Rascaels	Posted - 2009.12.18 06:15:00 - [27] http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=425141&page=1#19 closest I could find to gm response Originally by: K'racker Edited by: K''racker on 18/12/2009 02:42:31 Originally by: Phunket Actually using more than 6 cans at the gates is considered an exploit and not a valid tactic. For GM confirmation all you have to do is set them up and enjoy ur temporary ban. i'd rather see something as i asked for; GM ruling or link to a thread where a GM states +/- x cans is an exploit. you can't provide that either. aside from using cans to induce lag, i've never seen a written GM ruling about jetting cans being an exploit. some of you may have had 'field rulings' from a GM in local or a petition reply. afaik only a senior GM can declare something an exploit. the others just want to get the petition closed. camping a gate, where players were jetting cans around it. a GM came in local, removed the cans, and told us if we jetted any more, there'd be bans. based on that ruling, you can't jet any cans. players jetting cans around a station to stop undocking caps aligning. it was petitioned, and the ruling back was 'they can jettison as many as they like'. based on that ruling, you can jet unlimited cans. aside from causing lag, the motivation doesn't matter. so those that said 5, more than 5, 6, or whatever. a local ruling is not ccp policy. and NOBODY in this thread is able to link what the actual amount, if there is one, is. p.s. first person to say 'use eve-search' gets a voodoo doll pin in the stomach.
Lenartowicz Hive Bound Technologies	Posted - 2009.12.18 08:11:00 - [28] i was quoting a gm post, which i cant find, im not pulling the number out of my ass, although it could be higher or lower by a factor of 1, which isnt a lot...
Fastbikkel T.H.U.G L.I.F.E	Posted - 2009.12.18 09:13:00 - [29] I think the best thing CCP can do is make gates superhuge. Now they have a size that is not that big, if lets say a gate becomes 8 times as big, all kinds of tactics would have to change. I still think cans are a smart way of decloaking people, bubbles are also valid. But if people would need 6 - 10 bubbles to cover a gate, it would certainly make things different. -If the enemy is in range, so are you-
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.18 09:59:00 - [30] Originally by: Fastbikkel I think the best thing CCP can do is make gates superhuge. Now they have a size that is not that big, if lets say a gate becomes 8 times as big, all kinds of tactics would have to change. I still think cans are a smart way of decloaking people, bubbles are also valid. But if people would need 6 - 10 bubbles to cover a gate, it would certainly make things different. Terrible idea. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.



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