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istasi	Posted - 2004.11.15 11:36:00 - [1] Hello. I've heard that CCP is gonna nerf the use of both dual MWD and oversized Afterburners. Which im quite sad about. Those that have met me, kinda knows that im quite often in a speed fitted thorax. But its not only cause my setup is gonna be nerfed im gonna whine. But i dont understand why CCP is doing this nerf... If we look in natur there's three ways to be a hunter.. Hunt in groups (Makes even the weak, strong, dogs and that kinda animals) Speed (Cats and that kinda animals) Strength (Bears and so one) And until know it have been this way in eve aswell ... Some likes speed, some likes to have a hard hit (majority (sorry for my spelling)) and some do group hunting And until know cruisers can be speed fitted to gain the same affect as frigs have know with the high speed and yet low signatur (use of oversized afterburners) ... though they cannot fit any guns that do large damage due to either tracking speed or powergrid use.... So just as this point its very balanced... But the problem seems to be that the BS pilots dont feel so "uber" against a speed fitted cruiser or a frig.. simply because it cannot hit it or it can outrun its cruiser missiles... But to do so as told abit earlier the cruiser have to make a lot of firepower go into nothing ... so perhaps the BS cannot kill the cruiser, but the cruiser can only kill the BS if the BS is a fool and dont have ANY shield boosters/armor repairs fitted or simply forgetting to turn them on... The BS have still lots of options to get the cruiser if only he uses his head and the speed fitted is really a pesk.. He got web, nosf, large smartbomb and drones Right so at the first time the speed fitted notices this (web,nosf,SB, drones) he moves out of range to gain more speed (higher speed and still low signatur, out runs the drones, harder to hit, outrunning cruise missile, but less damage) and im quite sure that most of you knows that a warp disruptor have a range of 20km and a large nosf have a range of 21km (unless either is named or m0o) so now you can get away... And lets say that you wanna kill it aswell ... Well do you ever ever have any drones besides heavy drones ? ... course they are of no use if you are trying to kill something that actually moves (1km/s or above)... but sadly i dont seem many people that actually uses drones ... ever... And before you all go like 'its uber against other cruisers' true it got the upper hand against MOST of the cruisers but have any of you, ever tried to attack a 'uber armor tanked maller' ? ... it can easy tank out 8 ogres and you shot whatever you have while its trying to mwd out to you... And is it unfair that you will have to use either brain or 2 people to work together to take out such a ship ? I think not... After all it have so little firepower left (think of the damage it could do with blasters on it >:]) Now this is just my opoinen and how things looks from my point of view ... Yet im wondering ... is CCP trying to make the BS the 'uber' ship which cannot be treaten by nothing but another BS ? I can understand that people wants something for their money when they buy a BS instead of a cruiser however i think not that its 'fair' to remove the other way besides tanking to take on heavy fire If you wanna nerf something please nerf what needs it instead .. or simple try fix the bugs ?;) ------------------------------ My doctor have tried to tell me serveral times that eve isn't the real world... Poor dude, and people say i need to see a doctor ?
istasi	Posted - 2004.11.15 11:36:00 - [2] Hello. I've heard that CCP is gonna nerf the use of both dual MWD and oversized Afterburners. Which im quite sad about. Those that have met me, kinda knows that im quite often in a speed fitted thorax. But its not only cause my setup is gonna be nerfed im gonna whine. But i dont understand why CCP is doing this nerf... If we look in natur there's three ways to be a hunter.. Hunt in groups (Makes even the weak, strong, dogs and that kinda animals) Speed (Cats and that kinda animals) Strength (Bears and so one) And until know it have been this way in eve aswell ... Some likes speed, some likes to have a hard hit (majority (sorry for my spelling)) and some do group hunting And until know cruisers can be speed fitted to gain the same affect as frigs have know with the high speed and yet low signatur (use of oversized afterburners) ... though they cannot fit any guns that do large damage due to either tracking speed or powergrid use.... So just as this point its very balanced... But the problem seems to be that the BS pilots dont feel so "uber" against a speed fitted cruiser or a frig.. simply because it cannot hit it or it can outrun its cruiser missiles... But to do so as told abit earlier the cruiser have to make a lot of firepower go into nothing ... so perhaps the BS cannot kill the cruiser, but the cruiser can only kill the BS if the BS is a fool and dont have ANY shield boosters/armor repairs fitted or simply forgetting to turn them on... The BS have still lots of options to get the cruiser if only he uses his head and the speed fitted is really a pesk.. He got web, nosf, large smartbomb and drones Right so at the first time the speed fitted notices this (web,nosf,SB, drones) he moves out of range to gain more speed (higher speed and still low signatur, out runs the drones, harder to hit, outrunning cruise missile, but less damage) and im quite sure that most of you knows that a warp disruptor have a range of 20km and a large nosf have a range of 21km (unless either is named or m0o) so now you can get away... And lets say that you wanna kill it aswell ... Well do you ever ever have any drones besides heavy drones ? ... course they are of no use if you are trying to kill something that actually moves (1km/s or above)... but sadly i dont seem many people that actually uses drones ... ever... And before you all go like 'its uber against other cruisers' true it got the upper hand against MOST of the cruisers but have any of you, ever tried to attack a 'uber armor tanked maller' ? ... it can easy tank out 8 ogres and you shot whatever you have while its trying to mwd out to you... And is it unfair that you will have to use either brain or 2 people to work together to take out such a ship ? I think not... After all it have so little firepower left (think of the damage it could do with blasters on it >:]) Now this is just my opoinen and how things looks from my point of view ... Yet im wondering ... is CCP trying to make the BS the 'uber' ship which cannot be treaten by nothing but another BS ? I can understand that people wants something for their money when they buy a BS instead of a cruiser however i think not that its 'fair' to remove the other way besides tanking to take on heavy fire If you wanna nerf something please nerf what needs it instead .. or simple try fix the bugs ?;) ------------------------------ My doctor have tried to tell me serveral times that eve isn't the real world... Poor dude, and people say i need to see a doctor ?
The Failure	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:03:00 - [3] Well CA uses a lot of Speed setups. Of course it has to get nerfed.
The Failure	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:03:00 - [4] Well CA uses a lot of Speed setups. Of course it has to get nerfed.
Sally	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:05:00 - [5] Good nerf. Every tried to stop a Triple-MWD cruiser in an Interceptor with maxed skills and one 1MN MWD II? -- Stories: #1 --
Sally	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:05:00 - [6] Good nerf. Every tried to stop a Triple-MWD cruiser in an Interceptor with maxed skills and one 1MN MWD II? -- Stories: #1 --
istasi	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:10:00 - [7] Originally by: Sally Good nerf. Every tried to stop a Triple-MWD cruiser in an Interceptor with maxed skills and one 1MN MWD II? Now what can such a ship do to harm you ? What can such a ship do at all ? Besides move from A to B pretty fast And what is the diffent between this and a frigate with instant BM's ? Both are pretty hard to catch except the cruiser is slower to get into warp ------------------------------ My doctor have tried to tell me serveral times that eve isn't the real world... Poor dude, and people say i need to see a doctor ?
istasi	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:10:00 - [8] Originally by: Sally Good nerf. Every tried to stop a Triple-MWD cruiser in an Interceptor with maxed skills and one 1MN MWD II? Now what can such a ship do to harm you ? What can such a ship do at all ? Besides move from A to B pretty fast And what is the diffent between this and a frigate with instant BM's ? Both are pretty hard to catch except the cruiser is slower to get into warp ------------------------------ My doctor have tried to tell me serveral times that eve isn't the real world... Poor dude, and people say i need to see a doctor ?
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:12:00 - [9] Originally by: Sally Good nerf. Every tried to stop a Triple-MWD cruiser in an Interceptor with maxed skills and one 1MN MWD II? Dual Sensor boosted Stiletto with a 20km disruptor placed within the stargate the cruiser is coming from. Cruiser uncloaks, cruiser gets scrambled your BS kills him. Then again ever tried stopping a 3 Nos 1 web 1 scrambler fitted BS with a max skilled ceptor fitted with 1mn MWD II? guess those need nerfage as well. Pain is meant to be felt
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Sally Good nerf. Every tried to stop a Triple-MWD cruiser in an Interceptor with maxed skills and one 1MN MWD II? Dual Sensor boosted Stiletto with a 20km disruptor placed within the stargate the cruiser is coming from. Cruiser uncloaks, cruiser gets scrambled your BS kills him. Then again ever tried stopping a 3 Nos 1 web 1 scrambler fitted BS with a max skilled ceptor fitted with 1mn MWD II? guess those need nerfage as well. Pain is meant to be felt
Lifewire	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:21:00 - [11] Edited by: Lifewire on 15/11/2004 12:25:59 The nerf is ok. Istasi, it will nerf your hunting style - but it also will nerf a lot of peoples "running style". Can¦t await to not see tripple-mwds on BS anymore. It¦s totally unrealistic to see these large ships moving at topspeed of 5000-50000 m/s. Dual- and tripple-mwds/oversized AB have to go. We only used it because we have to be faster than our prey or blobsized piratehunters. Don¦t worry about the Thorax - it still will have its role.
Lifewire	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:21:00 - [12] Edited by: Lifewire on 15/11/2004 12:25:59 The nerf is ok. Istasi, it will nerf your hunting style - but it also will nerf a lot of peoples "running style". Can¦t await to not see tripple-mwds on BS anymore. It¦s totally unrealistic to see these large ships moving at topspeed of 5000-50000 m/s. Dual- and tripple-mwds/oversized AB have to go. We only used it because we have to be faster than our prey or blobsized piratehunters. Don¦t worry about the Thorax - it still will have its role.
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:55:00 - [13] Originally by: Lifewire Edited by: Lifewire on 15/11/2004 12:25:59 The nerf is ok. Istasi, it will nerf your hunting style - but it also will nerf a lot of peoples "running style". Can¦t await to not see tripple-mwds on BS anymore. It¦s totally unrealistic to see these large ships moving at topspeed of 5000-50000 m/s. Dual- and tripple-mwds/oversized AB have to go. We only used it because we have to be faster than our prey or blobsized piratehunters. Don¦t worry about the Thorax - it still will have its role. gonngggggg - This man is right. 100/100 points. A cookie for the rest of the people. ____________________________________________________ Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
Randuin MaraL	Posted - 2004.11.15 12:55:00 - [14] Originally by: Lifewire Edited by: Lifewire on 15/11/2004 12:25:59 The nerf is ok. Istasi, it will nerf your hunting style - but it also will nerf a lot of peoples "running style". Can¦t await to not see tripple-mwds on BS anymore. It¦s totally unrealistic to see these large ships moving at topspeed of 5000-50000 m/s. Dual- and tripple-mwds/oversized AB have to go. We only used it because we have to be faster than our prey or blobsized piratehunters. Don¦t worry about the Thorax - it still will have its role. gonngggggg - This man is right. 100/100 points. A cookie for the rest of the people. ____________________________________________________ Never be in the company of anyone with whom you would not want to die. MEDUSA veteran, Khumaak Award winner
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.15 13:57:00 - [15] The only real problem with this nerf is it happening before missile balancing. It will be carnage. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.15 13:57:00 - [16] The only real problem with this nerf is it happening before missile balancing. It will be carnage. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Aion Amarra	Posted - 2004.11.15 15:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Aion Amarra on 15/11/2004 15:05:03 I still don't quite get while dual-mwds/oversized ABs have gotten/will get nerfed like that If they'd just stack the speed bonus of MWDs (and perhaps ABs) ther wouldn't eb a problem... even a triple-MWD BS couldn't go faster than about 2km/s. AT the sacrifice of a giantic signature and with three times the shield/cap penalty. They won't survive in battle for even a few seconds... same applies to all multi MWD ships. MWDs would still give a good speed bonus (especially for traveling) but would be less overpowered in PvP battles... with the sig penalty they proably even would be underpowered. Nerfing oversized ABs would completely gimp my Maller fitting. The LiF Booster is the only way I can survive against many lvl 3 mission spawns (especially a Navy Maller...) it's kinda hard for me to tank that, and would be near impossible without a speed off 500-800m/s. Besides theres the high energy need for the AB... I'd perhaps increase the capacitor need of them, or decrease the speed bonus they give, while at the same time decrease the mass of Battleships or something. Making it harder to effectively use a Oversized AB on a cruiser. Something similair could be done about frigates, which usually have to sacrifice a great deal of firepower to use the AB anyways. Or perhaps you could even introduce a 500MN AB or something to make oversized ABs an option for Battleships. We got Chaos, why not test some PvP tweaks on it?
Aion Amarra	Posted - 2004.11.15 15:01:00 - [18] Edited by: Aion Amarra on 15/11/2004 15:05:03 I still don't quite get while dual-mwds/oversized ABs have gotten/will get nerfed like that If they'd just stack the speed bonus of MWDs (and perhaps ABs) ther wouldn't eb a problem... even a triple-MWD BS couldn't go faster than about 2km/s. AT the sacrifice of a giantic signature and with three times the shield/cap penalty. They won't survive in battle for even a few seconds... same applies to all multi MWD ships. MWDs would still give a good speed bonus (especially for traveling) but would be less overpowered in PvP battles... with the sig penalty they proably even would be underpowered. Nerfing oversized ABs would completely gimp my Maller fitting. The LiF Booster is the only way I can survive against many lvl 3 mission spawns (especially a Navy Maller...) it's kinda hard for me to tank that, and would be near impossible without a speed off 500-800m/s. Besides theres the high energy need for the AB... I'd perhaps increase the capacitor need of them, or decrease the speed bonus they give, while at the same time decrease the mass of Battleships or something. Making it harder to effectively use a Oversized AB on a cruiser. Something similair could be done about frigates, which usually have to sacrifice a great deal of firepower to use the AB anyways. Or perhaps you could even introduce a 500MN AB or something to make oversized ABs an option for Battleships. We got Chaos, why not test some PvP tweaks on it?
Rijinni	Posted - 2004.11.15 17:55:00 - [19] You sure about changing the oversized AB? I heard it was just the dual micro warp drive.
Rijinni	Posted - 2004.11.15 17:55:00 - [20] You sure about changing the oversized AB? I heard it was just the dual micro warp drive.
Aion Amarra	Posted - 2004.11.15 19:08:00 - [21] Dual-MWDs are nerfed in Exodus, ABs aren't, but I think I read that CCP plans to nerf ABs post Shiva.
Aion Amarra	Posted - 2004.11.15 19:08:00 - [22] Dual-MWDs are nerfed in Exodus, ABs aren't, but I think I read that CCP plans to nerf ABs post Shiva.
Phledge	Posted - 2004.11.15 21:09:00 - [23] I say nerf MWD's themselves. Maybe 300% speed boost, and let us stack them if we want. I would rather have a module that wasn't so uber, and didn't hurt so much to fit. If someone sold a 300% MWD that took 15% cap and 15% shields away, and half the fitting/cpu/mw everyone would use it. That way BS would rarely go over 1000m/s without using a ton of slots, cruisers would be happy if they want speed, and frigits wouldnt be zooming to 4000 m/s instantly. In WWII, tell me which battleship did 50 knots, and which frigit did 3000? ------ thats also my point bacly i want to ride this game till the end and bacly be a billion air and have a fleet of my own and get to actualy contole taratory and play the cosinos -Daniel Jackson
Phledge	Posted - 2004.11.15 21:09:00 - [24] I say nerf MWD's themselves. Maybe 300% speed boost, and let us stack them if we want. I would rather have a module that wasn't so uber, and didn't hurt so much to fit. If someone sold a 300% MWD that took 15% cap and 15% shields away, and half the fitting/cpu/mw everyone would use it. That way BS would rarely go over 1000m/s without using a ton of slots, cruisers would be happy if they want speed, and frigits wouldnt be zooming to 4000 m/s instantly. In WWII, tell me which battleship did 50 knots, and which frigit did 3000? ------ thats also my point bacly i want to ride this game till the end and bacly be a billion air and have a fleet of my own and get to actualy contole taratory and play the cosinos -Daniel Jackson
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.11.15 21:51:00 - [25] Originally by: Avon The only real problem with this nerf is it happening before missile balancing. It will be carnage. Hell yeah - I'm going to temporarily swap my Megathron for a Raven until the missile changes. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.11.15 21:51:00 - [26] Originally by: Avon The only real problem with this nerf is it happening before missile balancing. It will be carnage. Hell yeah - I'm going to temporarily swap my Megathron for a Raven until the missile changes. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Darth Maul	Posted - 2004.11.15 23:31:00 - [27] I for one am glad they're gonna nerf the dual MWD kits. I've lost count of the dual/triple mwd'd cruisers that have simply run away from my 3000km/sec Inty since we've been down playing with CA the past few days. It's pretty lame really. I'm guilty of doing the same thing tho with a pimped out Maller that can outrun large hybrid ammo it's so fast it seems lol. Those kits are bad and violate the spirit of the game mechanics tho I believe, and it's all CCP's fault. What makes it so mainly is the fact that Small frigate based weapons are so damn good that you don't loose any firepower fitting them on a cruiser.. hence players have all that grid and CPU left over for trick kits. Untill the bigger turrets start performing better people will continue to use the small stuff, and wacked out setups will continue to be the norm unless CCP does something to specifically prohibit them.. ala the stacked MWD nerf thats comming.
Darth Maul	Posted - 2004.11.15 23:31:00 - [28] I for one am glad they're gonna nerf the dual MWD kits. I've lost count of the dual/triple mwd'd cruisers that have simply run away from my 3000km/sec Inty since we've been down playing with CA the past few days. It's pretty lame really. I'm guilty of doing the same thing tho with a pimped out Maller that can outrun large hybrid ammo it's so fast it seems lol. Those kits are bad and violate the spirit of the game mechanics tho I believe, and it's all CCP's fault. What makes it so mainly is the fact that Small frigate based weapons are so damn good that you don't loose any firepower fitting them on a cruiser.. hence players have all that grid and CPU left over for trick kits. Untill the bigger turrets start performing better people will continue to use the small stuff, and wacked out setups will continue to be the norm unless CCP does something to specifically prohibit them.. ala the stacked MWD nerf thats comming.
Urkl	Posted - 2004.11.15 23:33:00 - [29] May you all be cursed to fly around in an indy everywhere you go. * * * * *** ** * *****.
Urkl	Posted - 2004.11.15 23:33:00 - [30] May you all be cursed to fly around in an indy everywhere you go. * * * * *** ** * *****.

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