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LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:54:00 -
[1]
So this is a long-standing issue. It needs to be dealt with.
At fanfest, CCP kept harping on about how the API was important to them and they hate taking it offline. I even remember vague promises of them not taking the API offline all that much anymore.
Since dominion, we have seen the API taken offline over and over again. Sure, it might be due to an underlying issue and them having to preserve resources.
But in that case the problem comes down to the API being poorly implemented. And rightfully so. The API only offers XML. If it was done right, we'd be able to get a JSON version too without many extra lines of code.
Lets make it simple. CCP needs to get the message that the API needs to be looked at. We need a new API that we can rely on. We can't with the current one. The current bouncy ball of an API is an insult to the third-party developers together with the limitations that are put onto, for instance, the mail API.
We want to know what their plans are to keep the API up to the exact same up-time as TQ. TQ is just as important as the API. The API is just as important at TQ. There's no difference, it's the same thing.
Here's to hoping that the CSM will take this to Iceland and explain to CCP the importance of a stable API.
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Baeryn
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:55:00 -
[2]
Edited by: Baeryn on 17/12/2009 18:56:50 Signed. Role Playing Games by RolePlayGateway |
Alaki Kant
Selective Pressure
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:56:00 -
[3]
signed
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Teavan
First CityWide Change Bank
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:57:00 -
[4]
Signed. My corp depends on the API to function.
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TornSoul
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.12.17 18:57:00 -
[5]
Agreed^10000 BIG Lottery |
Zaryn Zoran
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.17 19:00:00 -
[6]
I am involved with a corp which requires the API in order to function within the realms of sanity. I think it is important to focus on basics such as ensuring the API is up whenever Tranquility is up.
Once we have that, it would make sense to look into things such as alternative formats staging sites. Another example is having an API available from the preview grid (singularity) would be great in the lead up to new expansions.
Just to re-iterate - many corps require the API to really function well and enjoy the game. Thus the API should be considered a crucial portion of the Tranquility.
Signed.
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Ahro Thariori
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Posted - 2009.12.17 19:07:00 -
[7]
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RJ Nobel
Nobel Research and Development
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Posted - 2009.12.17 19:08:00 -
[8]
Signed. 100% support for devoting whatever resources are necessary to keep the API at TQ-level uptime and stability.
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PyjamaSam
Vanguard Frontiers Antaeus Combine
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Posted - 2009.12.17 19:11:00 -
[9]
Signed.
chris.
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Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2009.12.17 19:37:00 -
[10]
Supported. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
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Amy Garzan
The Warp Rats Core Factor
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Posted - 2009.12.17 20:05:00 -
[11]
signed
-------------------------------------------------- 101010 The Answer to Life, The Universe, and Everything |
Squizz Caphinator
First Flying Wing Inc Primary.
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Posted - 2009.12.17 20:20:00 -
[12]
ESAM is useless when the API is down
signed
--
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Dragonmede
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Posted - 2009.12.17 20:21:00 -
[13]
Signed
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Herschel Yamamoto
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.12.17 21:01:00 -
[14]
Fully agreed.
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Solo Drakban
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.18 00:10:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Solo Drakban on 18/12/2009 00:11:11 A format change is unnecessary. Any number of proxies or message brokers should be able to handle the transparent change of data format for you or you could roll your own with a little effort. Part of a current goon project is to do exactly that, abstract the API data into a different format (and abstracing multiple API calls to return a single unified set of data), but I digress.
What is needed are some base-level technical changes to make the API more reliable and generally better standards compliant. I've brought some of these up in the past:
-- Error responses should not produce a 200 HTTP code. Error responses should produce an appropriate HTTP response code with the XML provided giving more information. For example the current situation shouldn't be producing HTTP 200 responses to clients but rather HTTP 503 - Service Unavailable with the same XML.
-- Use appropriate HTTP Cache headers. Then just about any standard HTTP proxy could be used to cache the data without having to write a ton of code. This goes hand in hand with my first point. HTTP is a well defined standard. It has many things to handle a lot of the crap that CCP decides to stick into it's XML for some reason like current server time and expiration dates. Why should I need to parse XML to determine when I should cache this data until? Use Expires: and Cache-Control: headers! (Well, technically you do set cache-control headers declaring the content private so you got part of it right)
-- The XML is god awful but we won't get into that as it's probably too late to un**** that screw-up not to mention breaking all existing apps out there. Maybe for version 3?
-- More API's returning larger sets of data. I'm not sure what's more load on your system, being able to get a list of state for all towers for a corporation at once or having to call /corp/StarbaseList.xml.aspx, parse that, loop over the results and then call /corp/StarbaseDetail.xml.aspx 400 times. HTTP keepalive helps here, but is it necessary? Why can't I just call /corp/StarbaseDetail.xml and get all of the details?
-- I can't recall off the top of my head but I seem to remember the API not doing on-the-fly compression of result sets. Might want to consider doing this as well, not only to reduce bandwidth (since the XML is amazingly compress-able) but also speed up transactions overall.
Oh, yes, and the last point:
-- If TQ is up, the API should be up. There should also be an API for Sisi for testing of upcoming API changes.
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Zapawork
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.18 00:16:00 -
[16]
signed
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Klyria
Agent-Orange
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Posted - 2009.12.18 01:00:00 -
[17]
Yay for api.
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Ellisonja
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Posted - 2009.12.18 01:12:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Ellisonja on 18/12/2009 01:12:15 Yes, information pulled from the API means I don't need to log in to check things.
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Keldar Anassi
Syndicate Special Operations Division
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Posted - 2009.12.18 02:48:00 -
[19]
I totally agree with this! Not only is the mail API totally lame, I mean common why only us to view the title, but also ISK management.. What we need that would make things really cool is a way to transfer ISK between characters/corporations via the API.. some kind of a "ACH" System where a person can send a "Bill/invoice" via the API and then the receiving party can decline or pay the bill ingame or via an api website..
This would greatly help the ISK for Service sites out there, and especially the EVE Banks. Just a thought. --- Keldar Anassi Founder Tweveit.com
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2009.12.18 03:32:00 -
[20]
The API needs to join the 20th century.
oAuth authentication for a start rather then this garbage keys stuff.
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Omega Flames
Last Resort Inn SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:18:00 -
[21]
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ZigZag Joe
Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.18 11:33:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Solo Drakban logic
Agreeing with a goon.
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GT3RS
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Posted - 2009.12.18 12:23:00 -
[23]
signed
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Desmont McCallock
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Posted - 2009.12.18 17:25:00 -
[24]
As an EVEMon contributor. Signed.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.18 19:03:00 -
[25]
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TeaDaze
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Posted - 2009.12.18 20:38:00 -
[26]
I support your idea and wish to subscribe to your newsletter
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Treelox
Evolution IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:02:00 -
[27]
Rocking this, especially now, that they have taken the API down all weekend.
Sig Zone
Signature picture is inappropriate. Please change. ~Weatherman
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XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp IT Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:12:00 -
[28]
Signed
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Femaref
Armageddon Day
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Posted - 2009.12.18 22:48:00 -
[29]
supported.
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Epitrope
The Citadel Manufacturing and Trade Corporation
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Posted - 2009.12.18 23:07:00 -
[30]
When TQ is up and the API is down, we're losing out on temporal data -- jumps, kills, and sov -- that we can't get later.
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Ix Forres
Vanguard Frontiers Antaeus Combine
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Posted - 2009.12.18 23:18:00 -
[31]
Signed. Mostly.
The API needs redesigning carefully; nothing needs to be taken away, some things need adding and adjusting to make more sense. With COSMOS in the works I imagine redesigning the underlying code to use the framework created for that (Nexus) is already underway for performance reasons and to enable more data to be accessed. There are lots of things the API could do that it currently cannot. I do not object to the current implementation; indeed I think it is important to keep the API simple and accessible. RESTful interfaces using XML and JSON are the way to go right now.
The API does need to be stable however. The stability of the API is crucial to services using the API, to corporations, alliances, and more. In some cases, API downtime can mean total standstill for an alliance- you can't reverify someone's authentication status every day if the API is offline, and forums go into lockdown, tools become unusable as wallet transactions fail to be loaded, lotteries stop, EVEmon and Capsuleer users cry out in frustration.
CCP is sending out a terrible message by treating the API this way. But the underlying problem in my opinion (without knowing all the details) is that insufficient resources are being spent on the API. Last time I checked, the API team was a few people who had it as part of their responsibilities. We need people whose sole function is to work on the API, improving and maintaining things for the third party developers who in some cases have spent hundreds, even thousands of hours on API applications. For all the work people like myself and other third party devs do for your community, for free, it's not a lot to ask in return. -- Ix Forres EVE Application Developer EVE Metrics | accVIEW | I Tweet |
Entity
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
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Posted - 2009.12.18 23:20:00 -
[32]
Signed by Entity, Lord of the ItemsÖ
That's right guys, a genuine Entity "signed" post! Print it out and frame it!
_
Got Item? | EVE API? | Cache? |
Nym Qyamara
Draconis Alumni Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2009.12.18 23:23:00 -
[33]
I endorse this product.
Signed,
Nym.
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Hel O'Ween
Men On A Mission
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Posted - 2009.12.19 00:10:00 -
[34]
/supported
Not necessarily the data format change, XML is fine with me. But the reliability (and documentation, if I may add that) surely would benefit from improvements. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager |
saras fortrox
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Posted - 2009.12.19 00:50:00 -
[35]
Edited by: saras fortrox on 19/12/2009 00:51:04 Edited by: saras fortrox on 19/12/2009 00:50:28 oh and json whould be great signed
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Bel Amar
Children of Anarchy
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Posted - 2009.12.19 01:02:00 -
[36]
.
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Casiella Truza
Back Alley Trading Company
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Posted - 2009.12.19 02:08:00 -
[37]
Originally by: LaVista Vista Lets make it simple. CCP needs to get the message that the API needs to be looked at. We need a new API that we can rely on. We can't with the current one.
Without getting too far into the weeds of the technical widgets and such that are needed, this alone makes it worth supporting. -- Ecliptic Rift, an EVE Blog Back Alley Trading Company is recruiting!
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Sheal'c
Ever Flow Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.19 02:45:00 -
[38]
signed
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Opiboble Inte
Terminal Impact Kairakau
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Posted - 2009.12.19 04:17:00 -
[39]
I agree a better API format is needed, or atleast improvements on the current system to make it more stable after major patches at minimum. bye all |
Kravek
Lamb Federation Navy C0VEN
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Posted - 2009.12.19 09:23:00 -
[40]
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Arous Drephius
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Posted - 2009.12.19 09:27:00 -
[41]
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Thatim Roid
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Posted - 2009.12.19 09:44:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Thatim Roid on 19/12/2009 09:46:39 Signed
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Miss Greed
Erlang Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.19 09:46:00 -
[43]
Signed!
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CareBear Bookmarker
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Posted - 2009.12.19 09:47:00 -
[44]
signed
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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2009.12.19 09:48:00 -
[45]
A lot of people have come to rely on the API working properly almost as much as the game itself working properly. It it wholly unacceptable for the API to be down this long. API needs a separate, stable server for itself.
Supported.
_
We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Minmay Minmay
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Posted - 2009.12.19 09:50:00 -
[46]
agreed =]
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Locin WeEda
Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium
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Posted - 2009.12.19 09:52:00 -
[47]
Signed Red Frog Freight Service
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T'Amber
ships of eve
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Posted - 2009.12.19 09:59:00 -
[48]
Although I understand that theres alot of work needed to get everything right there are no words to describe how much I agree with the ops post.
-T'amber
SOE4:DOMINATION
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Nareg Maxence
JotunHeim Hird
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:07:00 -
[49]
The format needs some polishing. JSON seems to be all the rage with the kids these days.
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Roemy Schneider
Vanishing Point.
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:09:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Entity Signed by Entity, Lord of the Items™
That's right guys, a genuine Entity "signed" post! Print it out and frame it!
done
yes, we may be spoiled now but so is CCP; outsourcing basic stuff such as oog char-sheets, pos fuel stuff etc... everybody will 4) profit!!! - putting the gist back into logistics |
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C4LYP50
Solarwind Interstellar Mining and Production Ltd
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:22:00 -
[51]
Supported ! And about time, too! Brunette By Birth...........Blonde By Nature. ------------------------------------------------ "Your suffering will be legendary, even in Hell." "No tears, please; it's a waste of good suffering." |
ZeusOnRoids
Amarr The German Star-Fighters United European Star-Force
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:23:00 -
[52]
signed
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Breaker77
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:47:00 -
[53]
Signed
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Opus Vitus
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:47:00 -
[54]
Absolutely signed.
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Mashie Saldana
BFG Tech
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Posted - 2009.12.19 10:56:00 -
[55]
Signed
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Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2009.12.19 11:13:00 -
[56]
Well, there has to be one in every crowd, and I am that one.
Doesn't bother me with my four accts in the least to have the API down once in a while.
Meh, I just play the game, not live EVE when I'm not actually logged in. I have no real need of EVE mon/sheet/board/FT or any of those things for the most part. And since I think KBs are the bane of any game I'm fine without having them.
Maybe...just maybe, with the API off line, more people will play the game on the server and not in the forums and other offline aps.
Mr Epeen
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2009.12.19 11:20:00 -
[57]
Fix it Fix it Fix it.
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Damien Arcuri
Empire Black Market
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Posted - 2009.12.19 11:34:00 -
[58]
I support this product and/or service.
I don't understand how the API can be going down so much. Isn't there a cache between the database and the public API interface? There can't be that much load on the database. But as usual CCP says nothing about the nature of the problem so we are left guessing.
HINT: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Ale_YaCwKEUVclVFVFlrUWt5aWhQaGQ0OXVCMUl4Vmc&hl=en
Keep API data in a separate lighter-weight database, and use a cache in front of that, if that's what it takes. The amount of data in the API seems like it would be relatively small compared to in-game world data, and separating the two might make both more efficient.
It might even allow the forums to stay up during expansion deployments. Win.
signed
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Strobist
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:04:00 -
[59]
signed.
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clixoras
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:14:00 -
[60]
signed
As an alternative i'd like to suggest that CCP opens up the API for a limited time per day. That way we can at least get important data daily. A downtime of 3+ days seriously effects my activities.
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Verite Rendition
F.R.E.E. Explorer Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:24:00 -
[61]
This will be the first time in ages I've had a multi-day map outage. ---- FREE Explorer Lead Megalomanic EVE Null-Sec Player Influence Map http://dl1.eve-files.com/media/corp/Veritefw/FWinf |
Krathos Morpheus
Legion Infernal
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:26:00 -
[62]
EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. " |
Original Copy
Forge Regional Security
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:28:00 -
[63]
I'm left scratching my head wondering when my POS runs out of fuel and when my skills are coming to completion while I'm at werk without this... when are we going to get it stabilized??
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Zahraid
Ordo Quaesitoris Ordo Magna
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:45:00 -
[64]
Supported!
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HyperBeanie
Phantom Squad Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.19 12:48:00 -
[65]
All our sales systems dies when the API is down. So does all forums, TS verification and everything else.
JUST NOT COOL! EVSCO - Free and Paid killboards - Get yours today! |
mirker
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Posted - 2009.12.19 13:12:00 -
[66]
/signed
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Magnus Nordir
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:16:00 -
[67]
The way I see it, API is only useful for paranoid CEOs spying on their corp members.
Don't use it, so I don't care either way.
Also, could we please have an option to disable our API key entirely? Changing it twice daily is becoming a bit of a chore. --------------------------- Only those who surrender are lost |
Kaldira
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Posted - 2009.12.19 14:31:00 -
[68]
Signed
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Chruker
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:49:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Magnus Nordir The way I see it, API is only useful for paranoid CEOs spying on their corp members.
Don't use it, so I don't care either way.
Also, could we please have an option to disable our API key entirely? Changing it twice daily is becoming a bit of a chore.
I'm curious why would you need to change it twice a day? Just dont give it out. ----- http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online ----- Top wishes: - No daily downtime - Faster training on sisi
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Karbowiak
D00M. Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.19 15:50:00 -
[70]
100% signed!..
Everytime the API dies, so does our killmail fetching (well, one half of it anyway) - leading to some mails not even being posted.
Co-Owner and Creator of EVSCO |
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Luaren Avidius
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Posted - 2009.12.19 17:24:00 -
[71]
The API needs to be given more attention.
I run an in game business that relies heavily on the API in several aspects. with the API down, doing things manually in game takes about 50 times as long as they would take using third party programs running off info obtained through the API.
Also, I hate having to check skills manually to make sure my queue is long enough that I don't lose time if I don't log in for a day or two.
Fix it!
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Pasus Nauran
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Posted - 2009.12.19 18:44:00 -
[72]
I absolutely support the fact that the API needs serious work.
Many players (not just paranoid CEOs) rely on the API for skill training info, market tracking, and more. Long outages seriously hurt that, and even short outages cause problems.
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2009.12.19 19:03:00 -
[73]
signed
Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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Marina Vantor
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Posted - 2009.12.19 19:49:00 -
[74]
The API is just as important as the game server itself. If the eve cluster was having a problem this weekend CCP would have the staff there to get it fixed. The API should be no different.
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KtoJest
Minmatar Silkroad Partners
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Posted - 2009.12.19 20:27:00 -
[75]
signed Caveat Emptor |
Xavin Nydek
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Posted - 2009.12.19 21:11:00 -
[76]
Signed.
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Juliette Leblanc
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Posted - 2009.12.19 22:31:00 -
[77]
I see many have posted "Signed" but have not really done it. If you simply post "Signed" but do not check the support checkbox, you are NOT supporting the OP (look at the thumb up icon missing below your portrait).
Originally by: CCP Prism X In New Eden, EVE wins you.
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Nathalia Itiero
Vanguard Frontiers Antaeus Combine
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Posted - 2009.12.20 01:18:00 -
[78]
I feel naked without the API to tell me i am still breathing. __________________________________________________ A part of the MMMetrics team.
EVE-Metrics |
Marcus Gwynn
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Posted - 2009.12.20 03:46:00 -
[79]
While I havent been playing enough to worry about pos fuels or corp assets, the API is useful for newer players like myself to plan our training and ship fittings as we improve. Without the API, any changes we manually make to our characters in EFT to determine what we need for stability, dps, etc, have to manually be reset rather than simply reloading. Also, because of API being down, any changes to EveMon plans fail to sync up with the game and give accurate indications of any skills ending during downtime.
Most problems with the API missing may seem minor, but because of the amount of different ways that its used by so many players, it is as integral to Eve as docking and undocking and any issues should have been identified and corrected PRIOR to release, not stumbled over without explanation for a week afterward. |
Jettax
The Professional's Club Fatal Ascension
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Posted - 2009.12.20 08:18:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Jettax on 20/12/2009 08:19:13 Signed.
The API really adds to the richness, and helps to alleviate some of the sheer tedium due to limitations of the User-interface. It is realistic too, as you should have various data tools and software at your disposal, and options for 3rd party data management apps.
This really needs considered a 24.7 mission critical resource, Like the market. If the solution is hiring a few more very expensive expert Admins/data architects so get that coverage, then that's money well spent.
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Makurid
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Posted - 2009.12.20 10:57:00 -
[81]
/signed
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
oAuth authentication for a start rather then this garbage keys stuff.
and /signed !!
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Zargyl
Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.20 11:08:00 -
[82]
I guess with the - hopefully soon - coming of Cosmos/New Eden that has to be done anyway so I guess already looking at it won't hurt especially as the role of the API get's bigger and bigger.
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Rilcon
Righteous Chaps
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Posted - 2009.12.20 14:21:00 -
[83]
Signed >:[
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Niraia
Starcakes WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2009.12.20 17:29:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Niraia on 20/12/2009 17:28:41 signed, i'm still bitter about not being able to see mail (yes, mail) bodies
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Selene D'Celeste
The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six
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Posted - 2009.12.20 18:32:00 -
[85]
Yeah, EVE's revolutionary support for third-party services and its API is only commendable if you give proper support and affection to said API, its development, and its stability. Normally this is okay but could be improved, and lately this has been abysmal.
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Caleb Ayrania
TarNec New Eden Retail Federation
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Posted - 2009.12.20 18:33:00 -
[86]
I thought this was in the works..
A lot of good topics at the FF roundtables.. I guess someone lost the notes from that..
Tycoon wannabe go here: SCC Lounge Got Game? Peak a boo... |
Gogela
Freeport Exploration
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Posted - 2009.12.20 18:37:00 -
[87]
Signed ------------------------------------
"A hungry man will tell you anything if you give him a cookie." |
Athre
The Higher Standard
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Posted - 2009.12.22 08:20:00 -
[88]
supported
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Aineko Macx
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Posted - 2009.12.22 08:45:00 -
[89]
Originally by: RJ Nobel Signed. 100% support for devoting whatever resources are necessary to keep the API at TQ-level uptime and stability.
There's no reason it shouldn't be able to exceed TQ uptime and stability.
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Sir Cuddles
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.11 08:17:00 -
[90]
signed
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Pages: 1 2 3 4 :: [one page] |