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Gripen
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2010.01.05 19:36:00 -
[91]
PaulTheWise, you're absolutely right and this is why L4's (or their level of income) must be not available in empire. But this is offtopic here.
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.01.05 20:16:00 -
[92]
The delayed local sounds fine, but there really needs to be a system to spot allies in system instantly. Even modern combat vessels have identification codes to identify them as frendlies and there is no reason why they would want to hide this info from allies. RP wise it wouldn't be an issue, since the game assumes instant information transfer to multiple outside entities already(CONCORD, insurance, current local). All you would need to do is say, that the info is now encrypted to hide it from everyone else.
As for gameplay, a system that wouldn't allow this could work decently with small, tight organisations, but the larger it gets the more cumbersome it becomes. Just defferentiating your own from others shouldn't be a chore, that you are forced to repeat constantly. That would propably make some happy, but it smells more like bad game design, that would be hard to justify for RP or gameplay reasons.
If you plan on nuking local totally, you need to come up with some better intel tools to replace it than we currently have. A counter for allied ships in the system would be the absolute minimum here too.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2010.01.05 20:57:00 -
[93]
Showing the amount of people in local without their details would be fine.
For those hung up on finding afk cloakers before supporting this proposal. You realize that their major source of intel is Local Chat right? And that without it they'd be stuck being active and reduced to using the same tools that you do in order to find anything out right? In other words it'd be that nerf to AFK cloakers that some people keep asking for. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2010.01.05 21:40:00 -
[94]
Originally by: PaulTheWise
Originally by: Marcus Gideon "Risk vs reward" and all that.
This whole thread is full of ppl who want to substantially increase the risk for the peaceful inhabitants of 0.0 for their own benefit. However, there's nothing to increase the reward.
0.0 is already unsafe, and not all that rewarding. Dominion helped a lot, true, but for rewards (as ISK/hour seems to be the only 'reward' ppl keep referring to) you're still better off in high-sec.
This also increases the risk to the attacker. The attacker doesn't know that the cloaked scout saw him enter the system, that the ratter in the belt is bait, and that reinforcements are waiting at a deep safe just outside of his scan range. Because the attacker doesn't get a full count of who is in the system - only what can be seen on scan.
This change makes life harder for gate camps. 2 gates in the system, you're camping one, and a new name pops up in local?? Load the guns boys... here comes one!
Every downside of this hurts careless pilots on both sides, attack and defense. Every updside benefits smart pilots on both sides, attack and defense.
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CombatSmurf
Digital assassins
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Posted - 2010.01.06 02:02:00 -
[95]
hell yeah.
/////
Whats the similarity between having sex in a canoe and drinking american beer?
Its ****ing close to water. |
Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.06 05:22:00 -
[96]
Not supported. The proposed change would give advantage to the hunter and leave the hunted more exposed. The hunted are already exposed enough by the constraints of the ships they must use to make what they're doing worth the time to do it.
The proposal would increase the number of support craft for any enterprise not directly involved in pew pew activity. Fine for large corporations or alliances, death for smaller groups.
Local currently acts as a general system radar that automaticly scans full time. That's a lot better than having to constantly jab a scan button just to see if there's anybody you should be worried about scanning for.
Windjammer
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Thunder1971
Caldari Virtual Warriors IMPERIAL LEGI0N
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Posted - 2010.01.06 05:50:00 -
[97]
The intel alternative could be a "search burst". This can be a launched pod or a ship fixed module.
It sends out a very large detection pulse. For example 60 to 100 AU depending on ths kills.
The module remains active from 20 to 40 seconds and ships can warp to it like a normal cynofield.
Only probing covops ships can fit it with a higher effectiveness. The pulse will then last for 3 to 10 seconds depending on the skills.
One ship can only "fire" such a pulse once every 2 minutes. Once a puls has been fired there is a spatial distortion in that region that makes a new pulse impossible for 1 minute.
Info will still be available but it will be incomplete.
The only info given is the amount of MANNED ships inside the pulse range.
My 2c. "comrades in arms know the meaning of true friendship". |
Simeon Whiteheaven
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Posted - 2010.01.06 06:29:00 -
[98]
No, local channel should stay as it is now.
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MatrixSkye Mk2
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.01.06 13:55:00 -
[99]
Originally by: Jin Nib Showing the amount of people in local without their details would be fine.
For those hung up on finding afk cloakers before supporting this proposal. You realize that their major source of intel is Local Chat right? And that without it they'd be stuck being active and reduced to using the same tools that you do in order to find anything out right? In other words it'd be that nerf to AFK cloakers that some people keep asking for.
This is true but you're missing a huge disparity. Cloakers wouldn't have to constantly smash the button while the hunted would. Cloakers have time on their side. They can choose when to hunt. They choose when they're ready, and subsequently when to press scan. Everyone else needs to be smashing it ALWAYS. How is that balance?
Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today! |
Forlorn Wongraven
Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.06 15:16:00 -
[100]
/signed
In 0.0 with upgrades it is nearly impossible to get any small gang fights atm. ____________________ We are the Ushra'Khan, and we come for our people. |
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Charney deGeoff
Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.06 15:33:00 -
[101]
Hasn't this been proposed pretty much every CSM term?
Well, for what it's worth. Supported.
Remove local (or put in delayed mode, whatever) + make d-scanner more userfriendly.
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Padaxes
Minmatar Masuat'aa Matari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.06 15:48:00 -
[102]
/supported
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Xtover
Suicide Kings
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Posted - 2010.01.06 16:39:00 -
[103]
Edited by: Xtover on 06/01/2010 16:40:00 Edited by: Xtover on 06/01/2010 16:39:17 delay local, throw in a circular "scanner" where people normally keep the local window (make it movable). scanner pings every couple seconds or whenever there's a change (same as the local chat window does, so no additional resources). spots on the circle are colored according to standings. white for neutral I suppose.
This would also have the option to be closed, to reduce lag in fleet battles.
edit: supported.
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Tuttle SVC
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.06 17:41:00 -
[104]
I support this idea/product.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.01.06 18:29:00 -
[105]
I will argue against this fix again. I don't want local, but making it just a number will horribly screw up both PVE and PVP and general alliance operations.
PVP - with just a number, roams and camps will be nonfunctional, see the following situations: -CAMP- "local went up!" "bubble up" "I hate you guys, you just bubbled a slow moving fleet/gang from your own alliance/block" -ROAMING- "scout jumping in... 2 in local, make that 3, make that 4..." "Eyes?" "No, scanning... found stuff" "Well, we can't ask in intel channels or alliance, as they were littered with spies even before they became the uber intel source they now (would be) are" "Warping to them... oh, just another alliance/block gang, sorry guys" -Fleets- Well, they are horribly difficult to organize/manage as is (255 max fleet size if nothing else), making local just a number would lead to mass chaos. Perhaps, a year from now, the first 30 minutes of fleet will not have to be spent explaining how to use broadcasts (please, please, please, please REQUIRE everyone who hasn't been to 0.0 to complete a tutorial on fleet broadcasts - for the love of Odin).
PVE - the ratting and mining that Dominion was supposed to centralize, instead of being spread all over the place, would be its undoing: "Local went up, everyone safe and cloak..." "Sorry guys, roam coming back, you're safe" "OH NOES! OUR 10-MAN MINING OPERATION JUST WAS BOMBED TO DEATH BY A DISCO RAVEN THAT JUMPED IN WHEN THE ROAM CAME BACK!!!!1111"
ALLIANCE - The logistics of simply undocking in a home system would become ridiculously tedious, as seen below: "Anyone know if local is blue in our capital system, where local is always full, and Dominion allows significantly more ratting/mining to go on in a single system leading to much larger local populations that are not docked (so comparing docked count to local count will not work)." ***repeat every 30 seconds as each pilot wants to do something but has to make sure they are safe to, followed by an inevitable*** "I'M DYING!!!!!!11111 YOU SAID IT WAS BLUE!!!!!1111" "It was 30 seconds ago. Sorry."
In short, you would need to add additional things to the change as OP laid out for it to be functional. Specifically, a FoF system of some form for each case.
Fix Local |
Maestro Ulv
Phaze-9 Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.06 18:45:00 -
[106]
As a sneaky cloaker type you would think id love no local.. but no, go live in WH space and leave the game alone... again!
How many of these have we said NO to know? 400? more!
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Stratio
Mirkur Draug'Tyr Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.06 19:04:00 -
[107]
Supported, but we need a viable way for finding out who is in the system without overloading the server. _____________________
For Tribe and Honour! |
Deuce TBE
Universal Army Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.06 19:53:00 -
[108]
Definately agree! 0.0 space SHOULD be dangerous, not the current situation where people can run to a POS or station as soon as a neutral or red ship arrives. I'm not saying it should be changed to the extent that a whole fleet can jump into a system, raep all the miners or ratters they can find and leave without anyone having a clue they were there til the KMs appear. It'd certainly force people to wake up, start playing the game tactically and encourage some teamwork.
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Dante Karaal
Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2010.01.06 20:07:00 -
[109]
Supporting, but;
IF YOU CLOAK YOU MUST SHOW UP IN LOCAL IMMEDIATELY
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.06 21:23:00 -
[110]
Originally by: Deuce TBE Definately agree! 0.0 space SHOULD be dangerous, not the current situation where people can run to a POS or station as soon as a neutral or red ship arrives. I'm not saying it should be changed to the extent that a whole fleet can jump into a system, raep all the miners or ratters they can find and leave without anyone having a clue they were there til the KMs appear. It'd certainly force people to wake up, start playing the game tactically and encourage some teamwork.
There is a reason they all run to station. It is just not profitable to start sitting with a pvp fleet besides the miners to defend them, and ships to run anomalies with (just like missions) dont have a chance against pvp ships.
So then the only result would be that in beginning there are many easy ganks on the pve ships, then they go run lvl 4 missions in high sec.
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Pharon Reichter
The Fallen Angels Unit
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Posted - 2010.01.07 10:27:00 -
[111]
Originally by: Forlorn Wongraven /signed
In 0.0 with upgrades it is nearly impossible to get any small gang fights atm.
No!! it's actually hardly possible to get a gank-> witch is what you want.
You are more concerned that if you show up with your little squeshy 10 man fleet enemy wil show up with a 30 man fleet. Witch is what should happen after all you are going into their space be prepared to face their numbers or dont go.
What you are actually complaining is that you cant just go 3 man in kill few ratters and few miners and get out. That's not what pvp is about that's plain gank. As it is this game supports it in the right ammount. no help needed there.
Btw this game is about being able to have large gangs and large fleets so you are actually in minority there with your small fleets.
As for the guy with what's 0.0 supposed to be. Read more. 0.0 is nothimg more than not supposed to be protected by concord. as far as how dangerous is or not is about the players that make it. it's only you that desire to be HELPED to be a danger to others. again work more there are already enough tools at your disposal. Failure to use them is on your side.
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Jared Ulfsuun
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Posted - 2010.01.07 14:38:00 -
[112]
Since people are posting their alternative intel source suggestions here, I'll join the band: Gate Feeds - making per gate entry/exit information available to those who care enough to set it up for themselves.
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ThaDollaGenerale
The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2010.01.08 01:36:00 -
[113]
Originally by: Bagehi I will argue against this fix again. I don't want local, but making it just a number will horribly screw up both PVE and PVP and general alliance operations.
PVP - with just a number, roams and camps will be nonfunctional, see the following situations: -CAMP- "local went up!" "bubble up" "I hate you guys, you just bubbled a slow moving fleet/gang from your own alliance/block" -ROAMING- "scout jumping in... 2 in local, make that 3, make that 4..." "Eyes?" "No, scanning... found stuff" "Well, we can't ask in intel channels or alliance, as they were littered with spies even before they became the uber intel source they now (would be) are" "Warping to them... oh, just another alliance/block gang, sorry guys" -Fleets- Well, they are horribly difficult to organize/manage as is (255 max fleet size if nothing else), making local just a number would lead to mass chaos. Perhaps, a year from now, the first 30 minutes of fleet will not have to be spent explaining how to use broadcasts (please, please, please, please REQUIRE everyone who hasn't been to 0.0 to complete a tutorial on fleet broadcasts - for the love of Odin).
PVE - the ratting and mining that Dominion was supposed to centralize, instead of being spread all over the place, would be its undoing: "Local went up, everyone safe and cloak..." "Sorry guys, roam coming back, you're safe" "OH NOES! OUR 10-MAN MINING OPERATION JUST WAS BOMBED TO DEATH BY A DISCO RAVEN THAT JUMPED IN WHEN THE ROAM CAME BACK!!!!1111"
ALLIANCE - The logistics of simply undocking in a home system would become ridiculously tedious, as seen below: "Anyone know if local is blue in our capital system, where local is always full, and Dominion allows significantly more ratting/mining to go on in a single system leading to much larger local populations that are not docked (so comparing docked count to local count will not work)." ***repeat every 30 seconds as each pilot wants to do something but has to make sure they are safe to, followed by an inevitable*** "I'M DYING!!!!!!11111 YOU SAID IT WAS BLUE!!!!!1111" "It was 30 seconds ago. Sorry."
In short, you would need to add additional things to the change as OP laid out for it to be functional. Specifically, a FoF system of some form for each case.
Situation 1 can be solved by better communication within your ****house alliance. Situation 2, see situation 1. Situation 3, see situation 1.
OP supported.
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Nerevar Dwemor
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Posted - 2010.01.08 03:27:00 -
[114]
Supported
Use delayed mode for the local in non-faction space. Lived in w-space for 6 months and it works when you communicate and use your scanner.
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Jared Ulfsuun
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Posted - 2010.01.08 12:01:00 -
[115]
Another related idea:
Quote: So let's see, how can this be applied to losec? First of all, let's do a local nerf. Yep. I said The Bad Thing. Shut up and pay attention. Change it so the only people who can see local are the current FW groups holding control over the system. Ah-ha, THERE'S something to fight for! Yes, alt-scouts could circumvent it, but they circumvent all other security measures used correctly, so meh.
(source)
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Luminus Mallus
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Posted - 2010.01.08 12:56:00 -
[116]
Good idea. And in all honesty I believe that the best solution is to completely get rid of the player count in the local tab.
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Tyson Gallane
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit General Panic.
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Posted - 2010.01.08 14:17:00 -
[117]
I support a change to local to make it less of an intel tool, BUT
*EVE is a social game. There should still be a opportunities to communicate/chat with other players in local. Thats what its there for after all.
*Alternative intel tools need to be improved to make it workable.
I would like to see some kind of Active/Passive scanner mode function to be introduced, whereby you could either go Silent Running, or go Active Scan and trade greater visibility for better scan info. Preferrably, active scanners would update automatically every 2-3 seconds. Ie, they would not require you to constantly spam the scan button.
Regardless, of scan changes I reckon that corp/alliance mates should automatically appear in local to their alliance/corp. NOT anybody from your buddy list though, as thats mostly wartargets.
T. |
Hemmo Paskiainen
Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise
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Posted - 2010.01.08 23:16:00 -
[118]
Only if CCP:
- Move all L4 missions under Q10 to low sec and all the mission agents above Q11 to null sec. - Remove all L5 missions from low and high sec and relocate them to 0.0 outposts on a renting based way with the holding corp. - Boost 0.0 income by 200%
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Scatim Helicon
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.09 13:25:00 -
[119]
Removing local massively increases the risk to the very people that CCP is trying to entice out of highsec. As various dev blogs and posts made perfectly clear during the build up to Dominion, 0.0 is supposed to be a viable place for people to live full-time, to rat and mine and construct, not just a battlegrounds arena where people visit to PvP before heading back to their empire homes. If anything, CCP's future plans for 0.0 are to make it even safer and more profitable for the residents, not to pull the rug out from beneath their feet and send them fleeing back to Motsu.
Removing local would be hilarious fun for the roaming HAC gangs, for about a week. After being ganked a few times by undetected hostiles, the average 0.0 ratter will say 'screw this' and head back to the safety of highsec to run missions like a sensible person. Hope you guys enjoy a deserted 0.0 and roaming for 4 hours without finding a single target!
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JitaPriceChecker2
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Posted - 2010.01.09 17:38:00 -
[120]
Originally by: Scatim Helicon Removing local massively increases the risk to the very people that CCP is trying to entice out of highsec. As various dev blogs and posts made perfectly clear during the build up to Dominion, 0.0 is supposed to be a viable place for people to live full-time, to rat and mine and construct, not just a battlegrounds arena where people visit to PvP before heading back to their empire homes. If anything, CCP's future plans for 0.0 are to make it even safer and more profitable for the residents, not to pull the rug out from beneath their feet and send them fleeing back to Motsu.
Removing local would be hilarious fun for the roaming HAC gangs, for about a week. After being ganked a few times by undetected hostiles, the average 0.0 ratter will say 'screw this' and head back to the safety of highsec to run missions like a sensible person. Hope you guys enjoy a deserted 0.0 and roaming for 4 hours without finding a single target!
wonder why people that get ganked by "undetected hostiles" in wormhole does not get back to hi-sec.
If you cant protectate you space you deserve to leave.
Lvl4 ARE broken but that the diffrent matter thats i would like combination of nerfing local and increasing personal income in 0.0 by about 25%.
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