| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
   |
Posted - 2009.12.21 07:56:00 -
[1]
My work is my life, and my life is my work. I invented this assault rifle to defend my country. Today, I am proud that it has become for many synonymous with liberty.
~ Mikhail Kalashnikov
Recently Mikhail Kalashnikov, the man who designed the AK-47 (Avtomat Kalashnikova model 1947) assault rifle, celebrated his 90th birthday. Though already feted in his Russian homeland as an officially approved hero at three previous events, President Dmitry Medvedev christened him yet again to honor the occasion, this time as a "Hero of the Russian Federation." That was on November 10, 2009 and America for the most part completely ignored the festivities, as Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2 was released the same day.
Incidentally, the AK-47 is a prominent weapon in that game, just as it is around the world. President Medvedev lauded Mr. KalashnikovÆs AK-47 as "the brand every Russian is proud of" and they should be. Designated the Red ArmyÆs primary infantry weapon in 1949, it has gone on to be mass produced everywhere and anywhere by everybody, the Russian communists not believing in such things as copyrights or patents. So, unlike AmericaÆs Winchester family who became fabulously wealthy (and insane) by inventing the repeating rifle, Mr. Kalashnikov gets a small government pension, the occasional medal, and nothing else for all that his efforts produced.
While the US industrial-military complex may get to play with an annual budget which exceeds the rest of the globe combined, they have yet to create a weapon even near the genius of the AK-47. It is so reliable that you can literally drop it in the mud, step on it, pick it up, and fire at will. (Try that with an M-16.) Drop it into a river, fish it off the bottom, and sheÆll fire just fine. US and British special forces fighting in the inhospitable badlands of Central Asia are big fans. Combine this amazing reliability with its incredibly cheap production costs and you have the Honda of assault rifles; more of the AK-47 variants have been produced than every other assault rifle combined.
Noting studies that found most rifle combat takes place within close proximity, the rifle has a maximum range of about 300 meters, or 3 1/3 football fields, yet when it comes to being able to hit anything 100 yards is more like it. Since the overwhelming majority of humans are poor shots, semiautomatic or automatic variants are available for your consideration. Six hundred rounds a minute can be placed onto target, but youÆd need to be a ridiculously fast loader to reach that number as the curved magazine holds only 30 rounds. 100 to 400 rounds a minute is more realistic, and still plenty. Some versions come with a wooden stock, some with a metal stock which may be folded down for storage; the latter variant is used by mechanized and airborne troops.
Firing a 7.62mm round that can either shred you (if it tumbles when it strikes your body) or leave a nice clean hole (if it passes right through) that can be patched up in a jiffy, the selective fire, gas-operated rifle is so cheap to mass produce and maintain that over 50 armies the world over use it as their chief infantry weapon. Since this leaves a lot of these things laying about, with plenty of ammunition to boot, itÆs the preferred weapon of choice for terrorists, Mafia, drug dealers, assorted dictators, and other unsavory types. This fact gives it a rather negative reputation in American eyes; any Hollywood production with a villain almost invariably arms him with an AK-47, never with the M-16, our militaryÆs preferred rifle.
Read the rest.
|
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 08:55:00 -
[2]
Honestly I'd take an M14 over an AK any day. Had experience with both in Afghanistan and I'd take the harder hitting and more accurate 7.62x51mm over the 7.62x39mm. Reliability is great on the AK but almost all the engagements I was in happened at ranges of over 400 meters.
 Originally by: a51 duke1406
The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 09:24:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 21/12/2009 09:27:06
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Honestly I'd take an M14 over an AK any day. Had experience with both in Afghanistan and I'd take the harder hitting and more accurate 7.62x51mm over the 7.62x39mm. Reliability is great on the AK but almost all the engagements I was in happened at ranges of over 400 meters.
Indeed that sounds like Afghanistan. I heard that early on the soldiers there were begging for the M14/M1A platform as the M4 was kind of falling short (no pun intended).
Once an Army guy was at the rifle range I train at and told us about how he was trying to get permission to attain his own M1A, a Springfield, but had to get permission from the Captain.
The Captain was from New Jersey, one of those "peoples republic" states where all guns are bad and nobody is allowed to have them. The Captain said "those are illegal!".
What a dipwad.
On the flip side I trained with a fellow who was in Afghanistan in the 80s and he will tell you that the SKS/AK platform can be as effective as an M1 Garand in the MOUT environment. The calibers being close and the ballistics at closer ranges are comparable.
There is a rifle that takes the best of the AK and the accuracy and magazines of the AR/M4 system and combines them. The Sig 556 and variants. I took one apart a while ago and it has a gas system like an AK as expected but the bolt carrier and bolt are almost identical to an AK. Yet it shoots the 556 and uses the AR magazines. It can shoot a 62gr good to 900 meters (I have yet to actually see that).
|
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 09:33:00 -
[4]
Don't get me wrong, the AK is the perfect warrior's weapon and is the world's most produced rifle for that reason but when it comes down to "the best" you really can't name 1 rifle. On paper and in the field are too far apart 
That being said, the best rifle is the main gun on a tank
Originally by: a51 duke1406
The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
|
Sazkyen
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 09:42:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Sazkyen on 21/12/2009 09:43:14
Everyone knows the best assault weapon is the SA80. 
|
Qui Shon
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 10:27:00 -
[6]
Quote:
Noting studies that found most rifle combat takes place within close proximity, the rifle has a maximum range of about 300 meters, or 3 1/3 football fields, yet when it comes to being able to hit anything 100 yards is more like it. Since the overwhelming majority of humans are poor shots, semiautomatic or automatic variants are available for your consideration. Six hundred rounds a minute can be placed onto target, but youÆd need to be a ridiculously fast loader to reach that number as the curved magazine holds only 30 rounds. 100 to 400 rounds a minute is more realistic, and still plenty.
Maybe they're such poor shots because they use auto-fire
Honestly, above 5m, okay okay, maybe 15-25m, auto fire on an AK is useless, unless you just want to hear the bangs, or others to hear them .
Granted my experience is with the Finnish variants (Rk 62 and 95), but they're certainly not of worse quality then others, those in the know tend to say the opposite in fact.
Easy to hit moving targets at 150m imo, with good ol' iron sights  , and not too difficult to get a decent amount of hits at 300m either. Even for a conscript "playing at soldier" like I was. It's been a while, but I don't think we ever tried longer range targets with assault rifles.
|
victortwosix
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 10:45:00 -
[7]
I personally would never brag about the Honda of rifles as you say. But before you judge the american industrial complex you have to consider which rifle is so mass produced and used by insurgents, pirates, gang members, etc. All the people who are dropping a proverbial duece on the idea of peace and equality.
And as for the effectiveness of an american weapon, look up the AA12 Hammer or the Barret 50 on youtube and tell me how inferior the great american devil is then.
I agree that Mikhail Kalishnikov deserves his dues, but dont hold it against all of america because they dont share that same point of view!
|
Haxfar Portlaind
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 10:47:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 21/12/2009 09:27:06
On the flip side I trained with a fellow who was in Afghanistan in the 80s and he will tell you that the SKS/AK platform can be as effective as an M1 Garand in the MOUT environment. The calibers being close and the ballistics at closer ranges are comparable.
Arghh! that's awful to hear 
The M1 Garand fires a 30.06 springfield, the Ak-47 a 7.62x39mm.
While the bullet itself might have the same diameter, the cartridge of the 30.06 is 63mm, meaning that it can hold much more gunpowder, which again, means it can pack a bigger punch and shoot further, at the expense of higher recoil.
And now some fun facts:
Both the 5.56x45mm NATO and the .50 BMG (not to be confused with the russian .50) have the same proportion as the 30.06.
|
Rolk Anderson
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 10:57:00 -
[9]
Its amazing just how many people can be killed on a shoe string budget
|
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 11:27:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rolk Anderson
Its amazing just how many people can be killed on a shoe string budget
And if you run out of budget you can still kill people with the shoe string 
Originally by: a51 duke1406
The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
|
Toshiro GreyHawk
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 12:35:00 -
[11]
Well I'm glad Mikhail is still alive. Stoner apparently is not.
I've used an M-1 Garand, M-14, and an M-16.
For semi auto fire I prefer the M-1. The damn thing will shoot a mile with no problem.
Between the 14 and the 16 I liked the 14 a lot better but it was a lot heavier. The thing is ... it was heavier because it was a more substantial weapon. The magazines on the M-16 were made of aluminum and weren't all the same size ... so it has a magazine adjustment to let you fit in the different sizes. I remember once I had a fat magazine and a thin one, though I didn't know I had the thin one yet ... I couldn't get the fat magazine in so I had to adjust the size outward. Then when I put the thin one in and let go the bolt it knocked that thin magazine right out of the weapon ... I was not happy. Fortunately that was in training, not combat ...
The change from having an automatic selection to 3 shot burst was asinine. Yes, you are supposed to fire in three round bursts - but that's a training issue. Typically for the American Army (I was a Marine) they dumbed down the weapon to make up for **** poor training. The end result? When some soldier has the weapon set on 3 round burst and wants to spray a lot of lead (figuratively ... the lead being gone now ...) he jerks the hell out of the weapon trying to shoot as fast as he can ... so his accuracy goes straight to hell ...
Eh ... the American Military has had a long tradition of saddling their soldiers with inferior weaponry because some bean counter was making the decisions ...
That said, the latest version of the M-16, is a lot better than it was. Better barrel for one thing. Better bullet too. It's also adopted a modular approach that lets you really customize the weapon.
Over all, the current M-16 is probably a better weapon than the most widely distributed versions of the AK-47. The bit about working when it's been dropped in mud is over done. If you get mud down the barrel - you're going to blow up the weapon when you fire it no matter which one it is. Which is one of the reasons you try and keep your weapon clean. At least the current version of the M-16 will function as intended when it's user has maintained it as they were trained ...
If you have properly trained personnel - then they know how to keep their weapons clean. If you have untrained personnel - then yeah a weapon that requires less attention could be beneficial.
As to the ammunition - the 7.62 Warsaw Pact round is heavier than the 5.56 NATO so you can carry more of them - which was a lot more important back when the M-16 had a fully automatic mode ...
The M-16 because of it's flimsier construction - is a lighter weapon. So that's just that much more ammo you can haul around and it makes the weapon easier to manage.
Both are also very popular through out the world. Due to it's rugged reputation and cheap manufacture the AK is more popular with people who have less money but there's a hell of a lot of both of them out there.
All in all, the AK probably isn't as good as it's cracked up to be and the M-16 isn't as bad. The training of the person using it counts for a lot more. Both function effectively in their designed roles. Both are assault rifles so both lack range but I wouldn't want to be shot with either one of them.
Between the two of them - I'd rather have an M-14. And ... OBTW ... like the AK being dropped in mud ... the difficulty of firing an M-14 on full auto (which the M-14 at least still has ...) is exaggerated.
Yes. I'd want my M-14 and my M1911A1 Colt .45 as well!
Orbiting vs. Kiting
Faction Schools |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 13:31:00 -
[12]
You forgot to add that the AK-47 made it onto Mozambiques flag.
Delenda est achura. |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Honour Before Death
Nominis Expers
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 13:38:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sazkyen
Edited by: Sazkyen on 21/12/2009 09:43:14
Everyone knows the best assault weapon is the SA80.
Which is why we gave it to the Germans to let them fix it.
Originally by: Wendat Huron
You forgot to add that the AK-47 made it onto Mozambiques flag.
Hezbollah too, and the Zimbabwean Coat of Arms.
Welcome to the AK-101 & 105 as standard service too. 
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 13:45:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Grimpak on 21/12/2009 13:47:29
ooohhh... this is turning into an AKvsAR argument.
let me add fire to it:
best rifle in the world is the Mosin-Nagant.
end of.
edit: here's something for ye:
Mosin-Nagant vs AK vs AR
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Wendat Huron
Stellar Solutions
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 13:52:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Grimpak
ooohhh... this is turning into an AKvsAR argument.
let me add fire to it:
best rifle in the world is the Mosin-Nagant.
end of.
I thought it was the rifle the janissaries used to kill off the Byzantine Empire with, if we're going into the arcane.
Delenda est achura. |
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 13:56:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: Grimpak
ooohhh... this is turning into an AKvsAR argument.
let me add fire to it:
best rifle in the world is the Mosin-Nagant.
end of.
I thought it was the rifle the janissaries used to kill off the Byzantine Empire with, if we're going into the arcane.
yes it was.
and it was used in WW1
and 2
and cold war
and vietnam
and afganistan
and desert storm
and afganistan and iraq invasion, yet again.
as it is on the URL I posted, the Mosin has a service life of over 100 years and counting.
and if fought against itself and won every time.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
The Wicked1
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 14:32:00 -
[17]
Originally by: victortwosix
.....All the people who are dropping a proverbial duece on the idea of peace and equality.....
And America is all about peace and equality? Believe the media much?
|
MaxxOmega
Caldari
Temporal Mechanics
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 14:59:00 -
[18]
All those weapons sound cool...
But I can really shoot my mouth off if I have to...
|
Crimsonjade
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:00:00 -
[19]
tbh the rifle's usefulness is determined by the Soldier who is using it. You can argue over stats all day. and class room stats matter little in the field. its why the Ak is well loved all over the world. its simple design that is truly able to live with dirt and grime.
AR is much improved overs its life, its a more complex weapon for a more complex military. The AK on the other hand can be used by anyone with very little arms training.
You want a really good rifle the mosin -nagant is great. The Swedish Mauser is a Real nice one too. My Favorite as a collector is my SVT-40, The Ak's predessor, kicks like a mule to and just a pretty well made rifle.
FREE MONGO PECK CCP |
Cikulisuy
Amarr
The Maverick Navy
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:26:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Cikulisuy on 21/12/2009 15:27:36
Edited by: Cikulisuy on 21/12/2009 15:26:45
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Wendat Huron
Originally by: Grimpak
ooohhh... this is turning into an AKvsAR argument.
let me add fire to it:
best rifle in the world is the Mosin-Nagant.
end of.
I thought it was the rifle the janissaries used to kill off the Byzantine Empire with, if we're going into the arcane.
and it was used in WW1
and 2
and cold war
and vietnam
and afganistan
and desert storm
and afganistan and iraq invasion, yet again.
as it is on the URL I posted, the Mosin has a service life of over 100 years and counting.
and if fought against itself and won every time.
i have one sitting next to me, beautiful thing, if a bit worn. its as old as WWII and was probably actually used and then put in a crate after the war. me and my brother take it down to the local range. it knocks the targets off the stands even if it misses :P i keep worrying the barrel is going to explode, but it hasn't (yet)
edit: jesus christ i am terrible at posting
nub> you cant mine so you kill. |
Blane Xero
Amarr
The Firestorm Cartel
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 15:46:00 -
[21]
+1 for Mosin Nagant
_____________________________________
Haruhiist since December 2008
Originally by: CCP Fallout
:facepalm:
|
Lt Forge
Pilots From Honour
Aeternus.
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:39:00 -
[22]
GN P90
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:43:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Cikulisuy
i keep worrying the barrel is going to explode, but it hasn't (yet)
you'll need a shoulder reconstruction faster than a face reconstruction tbh
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Zeredek
|
Posted - 2009.12.21 16:50:00 -
[24]
Best gun
_________________
rawr |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 08:26:00 -
[25]
If I see one more AK versus AR debate I am going to be using a shovel. 
|
The Wicked1
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 08:43:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
If I see one more AK versus AR debate I am going to be using a shovel.
How about an Equalizer?
|
Larkonis TrassIer
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 11:37:00 -
[27]
Everyone who plays terrorist on CS:S will ditch their AK for an M4 the first chance they get.
In all seriousness though, it isn't all that good at all. Not nearly as reliable as people make out (I certainly wouldn't want to curl one out in the breech, give it a quick shake and take it on the range, one way or two way). Innaccurate, really not that good of a round... What it is though is a sort of grown up Fisher Price 'My First Rifle' which people with little training/intelligence/discipline can get to grips with and use reasonably well reasonably quickly. They did the whole AR vs AK debate on some docu a few years ago and some ex Green Beret type summed it up best. 'If I had a day to train someone on any rifle it would be the AK. If I had a week to train someone on any rifle it would be an AR.'
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 13:52:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Everyone who plays terrorist on CS:S will ditch their AK for an M4 the first chance they get.
In all seriousness though, it isn't all that good at all. Not nearly as reliable as people make out (I certainly wouldn't want to curl one out in the breech, give it a quick shake and take it on the range, one way or two way). Innaccurate, really not that good of a round... What it is though is a sort of grown up Fisher Price 'My First Rifle' which people with little training/intelligence/discipline can get to grips with and use reasonably well reasonably quickly. They did the whole AR vs AK debate on some docu a few years ago and some ex Green Beret type summed it up best. 'If I had a day to train someone on any rifle it would be the AK. If I had a week to train someone on any rifle it would be an AR.'
and then I would snipe them from 2 countries over with my Mosin.
with a single bullet.
the second guy would die due to the shockwave of the bullet hitting the first one.
nah not really
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Honour Before Death
Nominis Expers
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 14:06:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Everyone who plays terrorist on CS:S will ditch their AK for an M4 the first chance they get.
In all seriousness though, it isn't all that good at all. Not nearly as reliable as people make out (I certainly wouldn't want to curl one out in the breech, give it a quick shake and take it on the range, one way or two way). Innaccurate, really not that good of a round... What it is though is a sort of grown up Fisher Price 'My First Rifle' which people with little training/intelligence/discipline can get to grips with and use reasonably well reasonably quickly. They did the whole AR vs AK debate on some docu a few years ago and some ex Green Beret type summed it up best. 'If I had a day to train someone on any rifle it would be the AK. If I had a week to train someone on any rifle it would be an AR.'
One was designed in 1946, the other '57. So yeah, only 11 years of a gap between them.
|
nahtoh
Caldari
Vanguard Frontiers
Antaeus Combine
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 15:08:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Sazkyen
Edited by: Sazkyen on 21/12/2009 09:43:14
Everyone knows the best assault weapon is the SA80.
Hated that fecking thing...What nimrod thought a button on the base of the mag was a good idea?
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Awesome Possum
Imperium Signal Corps
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 15:15:00 -
[31]
Originally by: The Wicked1
Originally by: victortwosix
.....All the people who are dropping a proverbial duece on the idea of peace and equality.....
And ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD is all about peace and equality? Believe the media much?
Don't delude yourself kid. Every country worries about itself first, and every politician worries about their wallet first.
♥
Wreck Disposal Services |
Larkonis TrassIer
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 16:19:00 -
[32]
Originally by: nahtoh
Originally by: Sazkyen
Edited by: Sazkyen on 21/12/2009 09:43:14
Everyone knows the best assault weapon is the SA80.
Hated that fecking thing...What nimrod thought a button on the base of the mag was a good idea?
A1 mags were terrible... real men acquired buckshee Colt mags instead. The new ones are really well made and you could happily batter someone to death with it.
The A2 is a vast improvement on the A1 (thanks H&K) and is the weapon we should have had from the get go. It's maybe a little too heavy but it's all in the rear of the weapon which actually makes it a lot easier to shoot.
|
goodby4u
Valor Inc.
Cosmic Anomalies
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 16:35:00 -
[33]
The AK is really only a good weapon for two main reasons.
It is reliable.
It is cheap.
Other then that the bugger is quite inaccurate and rather heavy, typically one would choose an m14 due to accuracy and punch power.
As far as the whole m16/m4 vs m14 debate goes, whether or not the m14 is more effective to generals is by in large meaningless. Remember generals think logistics not tactics, so what they see is a semi effective weapon with clips that weigh half as much and are easier to transport.
For this reason we started going the route of one round fits all.
|
nahtoh
Caldari
Vanguard Frontiers
Antaeus Combine
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 17:35:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Originally by: nahtoh
Originally by: Sazkyen
Edited by: Sazkyen on 21/12/2009 09:43:14
Everyone knows the best assault weapon is the SA80.
Hated that fecking thing...What nimrod thought a button on the base of the mag was a good idea?
A1 mags were terrible... real men acquired buckshee Colt mags instead. The new ones are really well made and you could happily batter someone to death with it.
The A2 is a vast improvement on the A1 (thanks H&K) and is the weapon we should have had from the get go. It's maybe a little too heavy but it's all in the rear of the weapon which actually makes it a lot easier to shoot.
Oh it was good to shoot, but it was a horrible weapon when I used it. Easy to control, accurate (till it lost zero yet again), Bolt relase catch was pretty much garrenteed to go missing, bayonet was a piece of crap as well. Does it still have the nasty habit of flying off when you fire the rifle?
Glasd to hear the A2 version is better but it would not have taken a lot improve the A1.
=========
"I am not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why can`t we just take the safety labels off everything and let the problem fix its self |
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 17:50:00 -
[35]
also H&K G3
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Larkonis TrassIer
Neo Spartans
Laconian Syndicate
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 18:18:00 -
[36]
Originally by: nahtoh
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Originally by: nahtoh
Originally by: Sazkyen
Edited by: Sazkyen on 21/12/2009 09:43:14
Everyone knows the best assault weapon is the SA80.
Hated that fecking thing...What nimrod thought a button on the base of the mag was a good idea?
A1 mags were terrible... real men acquired buckshee Colt mags instead. The new ones are really well made and you could happily batter someone to death with it.
The A2 is a vast improvement on the A1 (thanks H&K) and is the weapon we should have had from the get go. It's maybe a little too heavy but it's all in the rear of the weapon which actually makes it a lot easier to shoot.
Oh it was good to shoot, but it was a horrible weapon when I used it. Easy to control, accurate (till it lost zero yet again), Bolt relase catch was pretty much garrenteed to go missing, bayonet was a piece of crap as well. Does it still have the nasty habit of flying off when you fire the rifle?
Glasd to hear the A2 version is better but it would not have taken a lot improve the A1.
Aye, A2 is brill and if the tests are to be believed more reliable than most other western rifles (including the new M4/M16 varients). I only wish they'd upgraded to picadily rails for the sights instead of the old STANAG rails (which noone else uses anymore). I've no complaints and I don't think anyone else I know has had any real dramas with it.
|
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Honour Before Death
Nominis Expers
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 23:25:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Grimpak
also H&K G36
fyp
|
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.22 23:35:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer
Aye, A2 is brill and if the tests are to be believed more reliable than most other western rifles (including the new M4/M16 varients). I only wish they'd upgraded to picadily rails for the sights instead of the old STANAG rails (which noone else uses anymore). I've no complaints and I don't think anyone else I know has had any real dramas with it.
I have a drama with it... try and fire it left handed and it breaks your jaw
So it has a massive shortcoming in the MOUT environment
Originally by: a51 duke1406
The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 03:51:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Grimpak
also H&K G36
fyp
yeah the G36 is miles better, but the G3 will always have a special place as a gun that was deemed too inhumane to be used, or so the story goes
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 04:33:00 -
[40]
Well speaking of shovels I thought I was going to have to use my e-tool on some kids having a fist fight in front of my home. Not that I care about people fighting, but I don't want any part of it.
I must add to the "growing" debate but there is real experience I can share.
For 6 years I was an IPSC 3-GUN match director. I was also the score keeper. After every match I would put the scores together (paladin scoring system) and post them online.
Back in 2002-2004 there was a mix of AK variants and the usual number of guns derived from the AR platform. As scorekeeper and with the data I had on the gun used I could tell that the ARs were simply more accurate. ARs don't have as much recoil so 2 alpha hits (center of mass) were possible while AK guns tended to go "alpha-charlie/delta" more often. It's that bucking.
In late 2002 I put modified the paladin scoring to require 8 points on target to neutralize it or suffer a penalty. If you were sloppy with your engagement, an Alpha-charlie would go FTN UNLESS you knew your shooting was not so good or the target distance was killing your confidence you could put more than two shots on paper. With the backing of the range director we thought that the 8 point rule was more accurate and punished bad shooting. Other 3-gun matches either retained IPSC scoring or used a basic paladin (6 points to neutralize or one alpha hit).
Over the years, I saw the AK guns dwindle away. With the introduction of Tactical division (basically "limited edition with optics on the rifle") the AR more more suited to having optics - with the Eotech working so well on that rifle all the serious shooters equipped with them. That also brought in the law guys and occasional soldiers shooting the same division with ARs. The guys shooting AKs eventually sold them and got ARs or started shooting in what we called the "He Man " division or "Heavy Metal", which is a main battle rifle + pump shotgun (the other divisions use semi-auto shotgun). The Rifle being required to be a .308 or better, the 7.62x39 still fell in the Minor power factor range and could not be used in that division.
So those holdouts got M1As, Garands, FALs, and the like. By 2007, except for one buddy who liked to put on a shemagh and shoot courses of fire with his AK underfolder shouting Allah Ackbar (thank God the media didn't show up or the range officers would have had my head installed in the trophy case).
|
Haxfar Portlaind
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 10:43:00 -
[41]
You can't really compare the M14 (or the M21 for that matter) with the M16.
The M14 designed around joining the BAR M1918 and the M1 Garand. Tho many existing M14 can't fire fully automatic any more afaik.
The M16 is designed to be a light weapon, that is easy to carry around. That is why the M249 SAW was issued. Also why the USMC have the IAR program.
|
Irida Mershkov
Gallente
Honour Before Death
Nominis Expers
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 12:21:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Grimpak
also H&K G36
fyp
yeah the G36 is miles better, but the G3 will always have a special place as a gun that was deemed too inhumane to be used, or so the story goes
Too inhumane? I have not heard this.
|
Draeca
Tharri and Co.
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 13:20:00 -
[43]
This is the mandatory desert eagle poast you've all been waiting for.
|
Sgt Blade
Caldari
Veto.
Veto Corp
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 14:08:00 -
[44]
less guns more love tbh
Hypnotic Pelvic Thrusting Level 5 |
Magnus Nordir
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 14:23:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Sgt Blade
less guns more love tbh
Hippie!
I envy you Americans for being able to buy and keep guns without jumping through a hundred bureaucratic hoops. I had (have) to
-Take a medical checkup
-Pass two separate exams on firearms safety
-Enroll in a firing range course
-Join a hunting club
-Take regular psychiatrist checkups
To be allowed to keep a handgun (Springfield Armory XD .45 ACP) locked up in a safe at home, and a hunting rifle locked up in a safe at the firing range.
---------------------------
Only those who surrender are lost |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 16:05:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Magnus Nordir
Originally by: Sgt Blade
less guns more love tbh
Hippie!
I envy you Americans for being able to buy and keep guns without jumping through a hundred bureaucratic hoops. I had (have) to
-Take a medical checkup
-Pass two separate exams on firearms safety
-Enroll in a firing range course
-Join a hunting club
-Take regular psychiatrist checkups
To be allowed to keep a handgun (Springfield Armory XD .45 ACP) locked up in a safe at home, and a hunting rifle locked up in a safe at the firing range.
Well at least you got a good handgun. I have an XD and put 12000 rounds through it, mostly reloads, and had only 4 jams.
Gun Sales up, Murder Rates Down
A ten percent drop in murders during the first six months of this year at a time when gun sales were up dramatically is more proof that there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, the Second Amendment Foundation said today.
The FBI released data Monday that shows murders dropped by 10 percent from the same period in 2008. Meanwhile, according to data released by the FBIÆs National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) shows that during the first six months of this year, gun sales were up. January 2009 background checks rose 28.8 percent over the same month in 2008, FebruaryÆs NICS checks were up 23.3 percent and in March they were up 29.9 percent over March 2008. The trend continued in April, with NICS checks up 30.3 percent, while May showed a slowdown, up only 15.5 percent, and in June they were up 18.1 percent.
ôWhat this shows,ö said SAF Executive Vice President Alan Gottlieb, ôis that gun prohibitionists are all wrong when they argue that more guns result in more crime. Firearms in the hands of law-abiding citizens are no threat to anyone. Perhaps violent criminals were actually discouraged by all of those gun sales earlier this year, because the media made a point of reporting the booming gun market.
ôAnti-gunners,ö he continued, ôhave lost another one of their baseless arguments. Millions of Americans bought guns during the first six months of this year, many of them for the first time. Yet with all of those new guns in circulation, coupled with an increased demand for concealed carry licenses around the country, the streets have not been awash in blood, as gun banners repeatedly predict.
ôHard facts trump hot air,ö Gottlieb concluded. ôThese people are consistently wrong about our rights. Millions of people bought guns, especially semiautomatic sport-utility rifles that gun grabbers want to ban because they say people arenÆt safe with all of those guns in private hands. Well, the people disagree, and so does the data.ö
The Second Amendment Foundation is the nations oldest and largest tax-exempt education, research, publishing and legal action group focusing on the Constitutional right and heritage to privately own and possess firearms. Founded in 1974, The Foundation has grown to more than 650,000 members and supporters and conducts many programs designed to better inform the public about the consequences of gun control. SAF has previously funded successful firearms-related suits against the cities of Los Angeles; New Haven, CT; and San Francisco on behalf of American gun owners, a lawsuit against the cities suing gun makers and an amicus brief and fund for the Emerson case holding the Second Amendment as an individual right.
|
Discrodia
Gallente
Experimental Horizons
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 16:56:00 -
[47]
Just so those arguing about "well it's all about who's using it" the AK was designed for the conscript army of Russia, not some elite fighting force. The AK you could clean after spending 3 weeks underwater by taking your shoelace, dipping it in oil, then running it through the barrel and reciever, to have it work like new. The M16 and M4 are high-tech rifles (in comparison) designed for use by someone who really knows how to field strip and clean a weapon. So the AK is to the the M16 like a bolt cutter is to a plasma torch.
Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Locked, thread is filled with trolling.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.12.23 17:35:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Discrodia
Just so those arguing about "well it's all about who's using it" the AK was designed for the conscript army of Russia, not some elite fighting force. The AK you could clean after spending 3 weeks underwater by taking your shoelace, dipping it in oil, then running it through the barrel and reciever, to have it work like new. The M16 and M4 are high-tech rifles (in comparison) designed for use by someone who really knows how to field strip and clean a weapon. So the AK is to the the M16 like a bolt cutter is to a plasma torch.
I have video of pulling ARs out of mud puddles and shooting them. Wonder where I put it....
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 17:54:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Irida Mershkov
fyp
yeah the G36 is miles better, but the G3 will always have a special place as a gun that was deemed too inhumane to be used, or so the story goes
Too inhumane? I have not heard this.
there was a push some years ago from NATO to make Portugal use the AR instead of the G3, and it failed.
tbh I took that story with a pinch of salt since it looked more like the US try to sell their AR surplus to us.
still, seen some people do wonders with the G3, specially in the 1000m range, and I hope that the new G36 is, at least, as good as the good ol' Handcannon
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Makarrov
Night Wolves
|
Posted - 2009.12.24 23:49:00 -
[50]
I'm a big gun nut who has over 600 different guns but if the "SHTF" the first three I would grab is a AK-47/SKS/Makarov. Those are the most reliable guns I could ever ask for. Hands down.
|
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 02:11:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Makarrov
I'm a big gun nut who has over 600 different guns but if the "SHTF" the first three I would grab is a AK-47/SKS/Makarov. Those are the most reliable guns I could ever ask for. Hands down.
I'd grab my Mosin Nagant, it has the most uses unlike your little AK... it can be a spear, club, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood
Originally by: a51 duke1406
The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 03:04:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Originally by: Makarrov
I'm a big gun nut who has over 600 different guns but if the "SHTF" the first three I would grab is a AK-47/SKS/Makarov. Those are the most reliable guns I could ever ask for. Hands down.
I'd grab my Mosin Nagant, it has the most uses unlike your little AK... it can be a spear, club, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood
and the bayonet is awesome to gut... well, anything
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
adfadfadfawe
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 03:39:00 -
[53]
Guns are cool. I like to dry fire mine while touching myself.
|
JordanParey
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 04:49:00 -
[54]
Edited by: JordanParey on 25/12/2009 04:57:01
Originally by: adfadfadfawe
Guns are cool. I like to dry fire mine while touching myself.
Like this?
Here's my say:
The AK is better if you are underfunded and undertrained. Cheap, reliable, and relatively easy to use after shooting a few mags.
The AR is better if you have the money and the training. Easy to use and reliable, but needs to be cleaned and can occasionally be finicky on the accuracy part. The faults I see are designing the gun with its charging handle style bolt and its forward assist (necessary to "lock and load" the weapon if it gets sand in its vagina. Horrible design flaw tbh.)
I REALLY like the idea coming from Kalashnikov about gas pistons. I like the AR's accuracy.
I REALLY REALLY like Sig 550 and 556 series weapons. They take the best of both worlds; they're not the cheapest gun supplied by the lowest bidder, they are easily cleanable like an AK and accurate like an AR.
That said, I've seen Colt AR-15s chambered for 7.62R and the round was MUCH more accurate out of that incarnation than anything else. I forget the exact name of the model, but if you added a gas-piston kit to that sum***** or buy something like this , then you'll be set.
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 08:07:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Originally by: Makarrov
I'm a big gun nut who has over 600 different guns but if the "SHTF" the first three I would grab is a AK-47/SKS/Makarov. Those are the most reliable guns I could ever ask for. Hands down.
I'd grab my Mosin Nagant, it has the most uses unlike your little AK... it can be a spear, club, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood
and the bayonet is awesome to gut... well, anything
Remember:
Guns are tools.
YOU are the weapon.
|
Jon Engel
Intaki Liberation Front
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 16:00:00 -
[56]
Bushmaster ACR is what I am waiting for. Another year or so and they will be more available on the Civilian market. I own an AK and an AR. I would take the AR over the AK anyday. Simply because what the AK does in reliance and ruggedness. It lacks in accuracy and performance.
I am not some 3rd world guerrilla. I know how to clean and strip a rifle. Therefore, an AR is my choice.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 20:37:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Intense Thinker
I'd grab my Mosin Nagant, it has the most uses unlike your little AK... it can be a spear, club, boat oar, tent pole, or firewood
and the bayonet is awesome to gut... well, anything
Remember:
Guns are tools.
YOU are the weapon.
...you don't say!
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Dannerkongen
Celestial Apocalypse
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 22:06:00 -
[58]
new kel-tec su-16c 5.56mm
|
Izzy Lizzy
Gallente
The Bastards
The Bastards.
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 23:16:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Izzy Lizzy on 25/12/2009 23:19:41
It's fitting to note that one of the greatest accomplishments of a society dedicated to stamping out the evil profit motive is a reliable murder weapon.
edit: And Tetris, I guess.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.26 02:15:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Izzy Lizzy
Edited by: Izzy Lizzy on 25/12/2009 23:19:41
It's fitting to note that one of the greatest accomplishments of a society dedicated to stamping out the evil profit motive is a reliable murder weapon.
edit: And Tetris, I guess.
actually, if you consider the inherent human nature, it's not surprising.
communism, as a concept, has merit.
but if you mix it with the human nature, it's not surprising that it would ended like it has.
but this is stuff that starts to border political discussions, and I don't want to go any further.
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.12.26 06:29:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Izzy Lizzy
Edited by: Izzy Lizzy on 25/12/2009 23:19:41
It's fitting to note that one of the greatest accomplishments of a society dedicated to stamping out the evil profit motive is a reliable murder weapon.
edit: And Tetris, I guess.
actually, if you consider the inherent human nature, it's not surprising.
communism, as a concept, has merit.
but if you mix it with the human nature, it's not surprising that it would ended like it has.
but this is stuff that starts to border political discussions, and I don't want to go any further.
Just an inch more for politics - you can say the same for capitalism and American democracy.
This is why I favor the ownership and knowledge in the use of battle rifles by EVERYBODY.
Because mass murder, enslavement, chrony capitalism, murderous non-consensual collectivism, and genocide - all of these things brought on in cases where a minority of people commanded governments over a disarmed majority and made such institutions and activities of tyranny a part of accepted systemic control.
Where every cat has claws and every dog has teeth, you don't see one breed of dogs attempting to exterminate another, do we? Do tabby cats enslave siamese cats?
And people might think that everybody being armed is a problem when they fall for the other zealous ideals fostered by those murderous minorities. That is, making people think that everybody else is the enemy and therefore some government is needed to control every thing to ensure safety. Whether it's a left-leaning motion that deems everybody too stupid to survive and needs to be controlled, or a rightward set that deems everybody too immoral to survive and needs to be controlled, it always ends in rights denied at the least and death camps at worst.
(all such camps start out as "reeducation/relocation centers, by the way).
Individuals, no matter what their ideals, are not motivated enough to "change the world" when they still have their own best interest to consider. So even if someone wants me dead, they still have to stoop low enough to do the job themselves and most people are not capable of doing that and those 2-percenters (people who can shoot you in the face and not feel any remorse) still have consequences to consider.
It's only when governments are put in place to align a subset of sick people to do the dirty job and make things clean and easy for those who could not stomach it. Those film reels of death camps from 1930s Europe were made to show the higher commands how efficiently things were running.
since not everybody who needs money will try to rob me, and not everybody who hates me will try to kill me, I would sooner take my chances with everybody being armed so nobody can install any systems whereby it even becomes approachable to rob people en mass and kill them.
And that one in a million who, without attempting to elect a government to do their dirty work for them, tries to rob me or kill me with their own resources, will be doing so as a criminal for acts over which they can be dropped like a sack of wet meat. They will not be in uniforms or hiding behind badges. It's easier to fight one bad individual than one bad system.
But a bad system cannot subjugate millions of individuals who are well armed and trained.
|
JordanParey
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2009.12.26 06:44:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: Izzy Lizzy
Edited by: Izzy Lizzy on 25/12/2009 23:19:41
It's fitting to note that one of the greatest accomplishments of a society dedicated to stamping out the evil profit motive is a reliable murder weapon.
edit: And Tetris, I guess.
actually, if you consider the inherent human nature, it's not surprising.
communism, as a concept, has merit.
but if you mix it with the human nature, it's not surprising that it would ended like it has.
but this is stuff that starts to border political discussions, and I don't want to go any further.
Just an inch more for politics - you can say the same for capitalism and American democracy.
This is why I favor the ownership and knowledge in the use of battle rifles by EVERYBODY.
Because mass murder, enslavement, chrony capitalism, murderous non-consensual collectivism, and genocide - all of these things brought on in cases where a minority of people commanded governments over a disarmed majority and made such institutions and activities of tyranny a part of accepted systemic control.
Where every cat has claws and every dog has teeth, you don't see one breed of dogs attempting to exterminate another, do we? Do tabby cats enslave siamese cats?
And people might think that everybody being armed is a problem when they fall for the other zealous ideals fostered by those murderous minorities. That is, making people think that everybody else is the enemy and therefore some government is needed to control every thing to ensure safety. Whether it's a left-leaning motion that deems everybody too stupid to survive and needs to be controlled, or a rightward set that deems everybody too immoral to survive and needs to be controlled, it always ends in rights denied at the least and death camps at worst.
(all such camps start out as "reeducation/relocation centers, by the way).
Individuals, no matter what their ideals, are not motivated enough to "change the world" when they still have their own best interest to consider. So even if someone wants me dead, they still have to stoop low enough to do the job themselves and most people are not capable of doing that and those 2-percenters (people who can shoot you in the face and not feel any remorse) still have consequences to consider.
It's only when governments are put in place to align a subset of sick people to do the dirty job and make things clean and easy for those who could not stomach it. Those film reels of death camps from 1930s Europe were made to show the higher commands how efficiently things were running.
since not everybody who needs money will try to rob me, and not everybody who hates me will try to kill me, I would sooner take my chances with everybody being armed so nobody can install any systems whereby it even becomes approachable to rob people en mass and kill them.
And that one in a million who, without attempting to elect a government to do their dirty work for them, tries to rob me or kill me with their own resources, will be doing so as a criminal for acts over which they can be dropped like a sack of wet meat. They will not be in uniforms or hiding behind badges. It's easier to fight one bad individual than one bad system.
But a bad system cannot subjugate millions of individuals who are well armed and trained.
This man should be quoted in the Second Amendment of the United States Constitution.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.26 10:17:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
But a bad system cannot subjugate millions of individuals who are well armed and trained.
and no system, bad or good, can take into account the full spectrum of human nature.
guns aren't the problem. people are.
you can use a bayonet to trench meat, as far as I care, but it's you who decide to do it.
there is also the "power corrupts" problem.
I live in a country where you're only allowed to have hunting rifles, and you need to go thru quite the amount of red tape and paperwork to have one, and you still get people that might have enough weapons and ammo to start WW3. But tbh, I don't mind that, as long as the person is considered capable and doesn't go Desperado on anyone.
tbh, in my view, as far as a foreigner's view is worth, I would say that the US simply needs more control on the weapon's proliferation, since the weapons are something that is ingrained in the American culture, as much as the Christmas is ingrained on Christians.
but well, looks like this thread went the wrong way, so I'll put it on track:
7.52x54mmR > all
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2009.12.26 15:47:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
But a bad system cannot subjugate millions of individuals who are well armed and trained.
It's sweet that you're still so innocent and naive. Never change, Herzog. Never change.
|
Sokratesz
|
Posted - 2009.12.26 23:15:00 -
[65]
Never touched a gun in my life but I like the p90 because it stores the bullets sideways.
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 00:57:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
But a bad system cannot subjugate millions of individuals who are well armed and trained.
It's sweet that you're still so innocent and naive. Never change, Herzog. Never change.
I wanna pet him, he's so cute
Originally by: a51 duke1406
The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
|
Death4free
Caldari
Caldari Provisions
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 01:15:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
But a bad system cannot subjugate millions of individuals who are well armed and trained.
It's sweet that you're still so innocent and naive. Never change, Herzog. Never change.
I wanna pet him, he's so cute
Oy you return to c&p posthaste
Also yes lol at americans thinking that civilians armed with guns would be capable of overthrowing a government if it got ****ty
Not like theres an army or anything that could be used to remove any "civilians causing public disruption" to a special camp or something to help them reintergrate into society or something
|
Herzog Wolfhammer
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 01:30:00 -
[68]
Oh har har. Break my balls you will.
If you want a P90 but can't get them but just gotta have that sideways mounting magazine thing (and round ejecting downward) there is an upper receiver assembly for the AR-15 that uses P90 magazine and a separate bolt assembly like that of a P90.
Not sure if I would get one because the caliber is in the "glorified nail gun" range.
|
Irulan S'Dijana
Amarr
S'Dijana Technologies
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 06:18:00 -
[69]
AS Val people.
Ok, almost certainly not legal ANYWHERE
- Nobody gets rich in this business. You simply obtain new levels of relative poverty. |
Sokratesz
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 09:39:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Oh har har. Break my balls you will.
If you want a P90 but can't get them but just gotta have that sideways mounting magazine thing (and round ejecting downward) there is an upper receiver assembly for the AR-15 that uses P90 magazine and a separate bolt assembly like that of a P90.
Not sure if I would get one because the caliber is in the "glorified nail gun" range.
I don't want one, I'll just look at pretty pictures of it.
And from what an army-friend of mine told me, if you're going house-to-house or otherwise operated in confined spaces, their size makes assault rifles unpractical. I wouldn't of course have any experience with it but I can imagine that the short length, high rate of fire and light weight of PDW's would be an asset there.
When will TQ hit the 100K PCU mark? Place a bet! |
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 09:46:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Sokratesz
Originally by: Herzog Wolfhammer
Oh har har. Break my balls you will.
If you want a P90 but can't get them but just gotta have that sideways mounting magazine thing (and round ejecting downward) there is an upper receiver assembly for the AR-15 that uses P90 magazine and a separate bolt assembly like that of a P90.
Not sure if I would get one because the caliber is in the "glorified nail gun" range.
I don't want one, I'll just look at pretty pictures of it.
And from what an army-friend of mine told me, if you're going house-to-house or otherwise operated in confined spaces, their size makes assault rifles unpractical. I wouldn't of course have any experience with it but I can imagine that the short length, high rate of fire and light weight of PDW's would be an asset there.
Off the top of my head the M4 and AKSU come to mind as great confined space assault rifles. Full caliber rifles too
Originally by: a51 duke1406
The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
|
Haxfar Portlaind
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 10:29:00 -
[72]
Why is so many impressed by the AR-15 family?
6.5 Grendel have the precision and lesser recoil of the 5.56 NATO and the man-stopper effect of the 7.62x39mm
|
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 10:40:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Off the top of my head the M4 and AKSU come to mind as great confined space assault rifles. Full caliber rifles too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2kEg8rEPl8&feature=PlayList&p=BB059D6F1E014140&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2
-----------
I think, therefore I'm single.
New projectile damage PDF
Alliance creation service |
Malaclypse Muscaria
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 16:28:00 -
[74]
I love the way AK-47 tastes and feels. Outstanding. I've got five of them babies growing right now, they are just over a month old.
|
Drunk Driver
Gallente
Aliastra
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 17:59:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Haxfar Portlaind
Why is so many impressed by the AR-15 family?
Because if you know how to aim it's a superior weapon.
I've owned and shot both.
I dumped the AK. I still have the AR.
|
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.27 20:17:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Marko Riva
Originally by: Intense Thinker
Off the top of my head the M4 and AKSU come to mind as great confined space assault rifles. Full caliber rifles too
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2kEg8rEPl8&feature=PlayList&p=BB059D6F1E014140&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=2
That's a nice toy but still only a pistol caliber
Originally by: a51 duke1406
The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
|
Nathanial Victor
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.28 03:24:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Nathanial Victor on 28/12/2009 03:27:17
"....well then how the hell do we know which ones are the bad guys?"
"easy, their the ones holding the AKs"
To feed the discussion, i own both an m4 and a ak. each has their pros. if i had to run out the door with just one, it would be the m4 but like most, i'm partial due to experience w/ the weapon, ammo availability etc...
if you want the best of both worlds, a 6.8 upper on the m4 is hard to beat. hoping to getting around to buying one in the future.
i love the 556/223 and again, given the choice between ak and m4 i'll take the m4, but it really does trail in the stopping power department.
"one more spam thread will get you a warning.
- Thanks Hutch. "
isn't a warning of a warning a warning? or just a warning of a warning? didnt he just get 'the warning'?
my head hurts |
Mathhew Kane
Minmatar
Gradient
|
Posted - 2009.12.28 03:52:00 -
[78]
Bah. When you absolutely positively have to kill every one in the field...M249.
As an US Army MP who served in Iraq, I got to play with all kinds of weapons. m249, M9, M-4, M203, Mk-19, The Mighty M-2.
I could never really get behind these "WHAT GUNZ R DA BEST" debates. Whatever weapon kills my enemy is the best.
--------------------------------------------------
Loyalty is simply slavery of ones own choosing. If ever you have the choice, Choose your master well."
My Step Father, Isikile Kane.
|
Vlad Cetes
Caldari
H A V O C
Against ALL Authorities
|
Posted - 2009.12.28 04:25:00 -
[79]
I have both an AR and an AK. I prefer shooting the AK more. Which weapon would I take into the field? The AK.
http://www.barrettrifles.com/home/rifle_rec7.aspx The best AR/AK hybrid (AR accuracy w/ a gas piston) and a 6.8mm round.
Also for all you Mosin Nagant fanboys, Mauser >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mosin.
I do not see why man should not be just as cruel as nature. |
Intense Thinker
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.28 05:18:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Mathhew Kane
Bah. When you absolutely positively have to kill every one in the field...M249.
Yup... BAM BAM BAM click Ka-choonk BAM BAM BAM click Ka-Choonk
Originally by: a51 duke1406
The girls just dont understand that sunday is pvp night, not cuddle on the couch watching tv night.
|
Grimpak
Gallente
Noir.
Noir. Mercenary Group
|
Posted - 2009.12.28 12:53:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Mathhew Kane
Bah. When you absolutely positively have to kill every one in the field...M249.
As an US Army MP who served in Iraq, I got to play with all kinds of weapons. m249, M9, M-4, M203, Mk-19, The Mighty M-2.
I could never really get behind these "WHAT GUNZ R DA BEST" debates. Whatever weapon kills my enemy is the best.
once I saw a quote that was something like "if you want to take down someone, then you're better off with a .45cal, but for blowing up your own head, even a 9mm is too much."
---
Quote:
The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |