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Railgun balance, when do they get some love ?

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NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.17 11:20:00 - [1] Edited by: NightmareX on 17/01/2010 11:21:42 Dabljuh, your idea on how things should be here is **. Anyone that have done PVP and have a good understanding about the ships and modules knows 100% that your idea will destroy PVP completely. If you don't think it will destroy PVP, then you have absolutely no clue about PVP. That's the fact. I'm not an expert in PVP though, but i still have a very good understanding on how PVP and most of the ships and weapons works anyways. Battleships is no way to be overpowered at sniping ranges and so on. I can't really see where there should be any problems. Well that might be because there ISN'T any problems. Or the only thing i can see that needs a little boost is Blasters and Railguns. But that's all. Director of Infinitus Odium.**
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.17 12:08:00 - [2] Edited by: NightmareX on 17/01/2010 12:11:32 Originally by: Dabljuh Originally by: NightmareX Anyone that have done PVP and have a good understanding about the ships and modules knows 100% that your idea will destroy PVP completely. Stop you right there. Why? I'm going to claim that your suggestion will kill babies and kittens everywhere. It's roughly on par. WHY?????. Wow, i just mean WOW. Did you really have to ask why?. I suggest that you goes over and read what you have said by your self and think really hard over what your suggesting here. But i'll guess you will say that's an awesome idea you have. But in fact, it's not. Don't fix ANYTHING that isn't broken. Learn that. And not only that, but haven't you seen here how many that says your idea stinks and how it will basicly make alot of things in PVP REALLY REALLY unbalanced?. And still you think it's a good idea?. LOL, come on. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.17 12:18:00 - [3] Edited by: NightmareX on 17/01/2010 12:22:29 Originally by: Veliria Changes Railguns need a boost to their optimal (about 15-20% or so), or the Caldari boats need a bigger optimal range bonus. Blasters need a boost in tracking and damage of also 15-20%, maybe more for tracking. In my honest option, blasters should be EXTREMELY lethal at point blank range, if you finally manage to get there and pin the target. And I mean extremely...if you get up close with a blaster boat and you're webbed and scrammed, it should melt your ship very very quickly. Otherwise (for me atleast) there is little reason to use them if they can't hurt in the area they are supposed to operate. Sorry, this will not happen. Because everyone knows that if this happens, any Blaster ships will get extremely op, because everyone will just adapt to the changes and use new tactics with the Blaster ships, so all of the Blaster ships users will just warp on top of the enemies all the times and just kill everyone without any risks of dying your self. And it's pretty damn easy to have a player or two in a Cov Ops so we can just warp to the Cov Ops pilots so we end up right on top of every enemies all the time. And that's called unbalanced PVP. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.17 12:26:00 - [4] Originally by: Dabljuh Originally by: NightmareX Blasters should not be the best close range weapons, otherwise people will simply fit blasters and fight in close range where they have the best weapon system thus be OP Wait... what? Uhm, did you really read what i wrote?. Did i say anywhere that Blasters shouldn't be the best close range weapon?. Blasters are pretty crazy already in close range, but just because Lasers are way to good atm, then Blasters need a little boost in DPS and tracking. That's the ONLY reason Blasters need a boost. So, a 5% DPS and tracking increase on Blasters while nerfing the Lasers tracking by 25%. By doing that, we will have all of the weapons pretty balanced. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.17 12:43:00 - [5] Edited by: NightmareX on 17/01/2010 12:46:30 Originally by: Veliria Edited by: Veliria on 17/01/2010 12:39:15 Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Dabljuh Originally by: NightmareX Blasters should not be the best close range weapons, otherwise people will simply fit blasters and fight in close range where they have the best weapon system thus be OP Wait... what? Uhm, did you really read what i wrote?. Did i say anywhere that Blasters shouldn't be the best close range weapon?. Blasters are pretty crazy already in close range, but just because Lasers are way to good atm, then Blasters need a little boost in DPS and tracking. That's the ONLY reason Blasters need a boost. So, a 5% DPS and tracking increase on Blasters while nerfing the Lasers tracking by 25%. By doing that, we will have all of the weapons pretty balanced. Pulse Lasers already have the worst tracking of the close range weapons, they operate best at short-medium to medium ranges. If they decide to go into blaster range they already lose quite a bit to tracking as it is. The main problem with being at point blank range is that you are throwing yourself at the mercy of the enemy. Both Barrage and Scorch offer the option to fight outside scram and web range and still do huge amounts of damage. Amounts of damage that come close to what Blasters can only deal well within scram and web range. That Blasters throws oneself into such a very dangerous range is fine, but they should hurt like hell if you are willing to put yourself there because you are limiting yourself a LOT. A Pulse Geddon can still hit upto 40-50km if it wants to with Scorch, an AC boat can reach similar ranges. A Blaster boat is always limited to 10-15km at BEST and if you finally manage to get yourself in a position where you can do full damage, no other weapon system should even get close to your damage output. If you really think it will be OP, you are underestimating how players can adapt and how the playing field is. Anyone who doesn't want to can make it relatively easy to stay out of optimal blaster range. Add neuts, blobs and tracking disruptors to all of this and you will find that blaster boats don't get in their optimal sweet zone as much as you might think. And again, even if they did, it would be the ONLY thing they could ever do, high damage at close range, utterly at the mercy of anything that even marginally outranges them. Being limited to such a short range entirely, where it is very likely you'll either die to superior numbers or never get close enough, warrant that blaster DPS should be unmatched. Afraid of a blaster fleet? Bring a few kiting ships and tracking disruptors or just plain adapt. I see what you want to tell. But the facts remains anyways. Lasers have way more tracking at it's optimal than Blasters have in it's optimal. And in close range we have webs. And because of that, Lasers are doing like 93% of Blaster's DPS inside web range. And the tracking doesn't count that much there, because all battleships with t1 ammo fitted can track any ships of their same size when they are webbed. Yes, Blasters have a very short range on the guns. That's a drawback. Blasters have to use 10 secs to reload ammos. Blasters doesn't really have more tracking than Lasers. Now, lets look on Lasers. They have nice range, nice tracking, instan reaload of ammo, doesn't consume ammo. Now, what drawbacks does Lasers have really?. High cap usage on guns?, well max your capacitor skills and it's not really a problem. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.26 11:31:00 - [6] Edited by: NightmareX on 26/01/2010 11:35:07 Originally by: Dabljuh And the only way to make blasters competitive with other turrets is to give them at least 300% the DPS of other turrets at blaster range. Adding 5 or 25% more damage simply doesn't cut it. If you want to make blasters competitive without actually giving them 300% dps, you need to make other guns do less damage in blaster range. And the correct - nay, only - way to do this is via a reduction in tracking in all the longer ranging turrets to the point where blasters actually do out-dps them in a realistic blaster-range engagement by 300%. AHAHAHAHAHAHA, good god, are you really for real dude?. This is the final nail in this topic about you. Jesus christ man. You have no fking clue about game mechanics in EVE. Do you know how ****ed you are because of this idea?. Giving Blasters 300% more damage in the Blasters optimal over other weapons is godly overpowered. Everyone knows this except for you. And it will do Blasters so op that everyone will switch over to Blasters boats, period. Director of Infinitus Odium.**
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.26 11:42:00 - [7] Edited by: NightmareX on 26/01/2010 11:46:04 Originally by: Dabljuh Giving Pulse Lasers 300% more Range over other Blasters is godly overpowered Another way to prove your dumb, mister smartypants. I mean, the range is the Lasers advantage, like the current DPS advantage for Blasters is an advantage over other weapons. Yes, i support it that Blasters needs like 7.5% more DPS. Nothing more than that, simply because if Blasters get more DPS than that, it will make Projectiles into utter trash again. DO WE WANT THAT?. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.26 11:51:00 - [8] Edited by: NightmareX on 26/01/2010 11:54:10 Originally by: Dabljuh Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: Dabljuh Giving Pulse Lasers 300% more Range over other Blasters is godly overpowered Another way to prove your dumb, mister smartypants. Face palm Was that all you could reply back with?. Wow, i mean nice comeback there dude. Just to be very clear. CCP will never ever boost the Blasters more in DPS than 12.5% max. Simply because that makes the other weapon types unbalanced. And if you haven't taken the hint yet, the Large Hybrid damage bonus on the Vindicator was boosted from 25% to 37.5% in Dominion 1.1. And what does that means exactly?. Yes it means that CCP doesn't have a plan on boosting Hybrid guns for a veeeeeeeeery very long time. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.26 12:03:00 - [9] Edited by: NightmareX on 26/01/2010 12:04:26 Originally by: Dabljuh Originally by: NightmareX Wow, i mean nice comeback there dude. I'm sorry but you're literally too stupid to insult. You don't even understand that you're being insulted, much less understand the how or why. Quote: Just to be very clear. CCP will never ever boost the Blasters more in DPS than 10% max. Simply because that makes the other weapon types unbalanced. And you're way too stupid to understand what I wrote, much less contribute an useful argument. Let me restate it in very, very, very simple terms: You don't need to give blasters a single percentage point more damage to make them do 300% more damage at blaster optimal than other weapons. It suffices to reduce the tracking of the other weapons to the point where they do 1/4th the damage of blasters under realistic conditions at blaster optimal. And before you understand, and I mean fully comprehend in its entirety with all implications what I just said, you need to STFU big time. The only thing that is needed to be done is to nerf Lasers tracking by 20-25%. Back to what it was before Lasers got the tracking boost some years ago. Because do you actually know why Lasers got the tracking boost in the first place back then?. If you know that, then you know that the tracking boost Lasers got then is kinda overpowered today after speed is much much slower than it was back in the days. So yes, the only weapon type that needs it's tracking nerfed is Lasers ONLY. Projectiles are perfectly fine as they are now after they got boosted. So leave them alone. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.26 12:17:00 - [10] Edited by: NightmareX on 26/01/2010 12:23:58 Originally by: Dabljuh Originally by: NightmareX The only thing that is needed to be done is to nerf Lasers tracking by 20-25%. Lasers have their "Built-In bonus tracking" for a good reason. The problem is that all turrets with longer ranges than blasters track way too well. That includes rails. STFU. Quote: Do you know how much you have to nerf the tracking on the other gun types then before you can manage to do 300% more damage with Blasters in Blasters optimal? I did the calculations. On average, about 50%, but there's leeway. Now go away. Do you really think i will go away with your super duper noob ideas?. HAH, keep dreaming. No, Lasers doesn't have a Built-In bonus tracking for a good reason. Do you know how easy Large Lasers can hit a 3k m/s cruiser? (Ofc this is not 3k m/s right toward the ships with Large Lasers). Even after a 20% tracking nerf on Lasers today, they are going to hit ** pretty easy because all ships today are slow compared to what they was back in the days. Remember that, if it haven't been for that the smaller ships had been so fast as they was back when Lasers got the tracking boost, then Lasers would never get the tracking boost if the smaller ships haven't been so damn fast then. That's a fact everybody knows about. And because of that, the tracking Lasers have today are overpowered. Simple as that. The simple fact is that the ONLY reason peoples screams for Blaster boost is because of how Lasers is today. It's because how much DPS Lasers can put out in Blasters optimal compared to how much DPS Blasters are doing in it's optimal, and it's because of their insane tracking. So yes, the problem here is in fact Lasers. Director of Infinitus Odium.**

NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.26 14:57:00 - [11] Edited by: NightmareX on 26/01/2010 14:59:36 Originally by: LadyLubU2 Edited by: LadyLubU2 on 26/01/2010 14:44:45 Arguing with NightmareX is like trying to convince a ret4rd of your view: He cant help himself anyway and your stupid enough for trying to. inb4 OMGLOLOLOL U SUCK BECAUSE I PWN ON SISI also inb4 federate issue megathron comparisons (lol) Are you dumb or what?. Or do you mean the tracking and DPS are different from TQ to Sisi?. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.26 15:20:00 - [12] Originally by: LadyLubU2 Thanks for (once again) proving me right! Proving what?. The only thing i see proving here is that your a noob who cannot be on topic and can't even give any explanations on why i'm wrong. Hahaha, go suck on that now. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.26 15:58:00 - [13] Edited by: NightmareX on 26/01/2010 16:00:16 Originally by: LadyLubU2 Originally by: NightmareX Originally by: LadyLubU2 Thanks for (once again) proving me right! Proving what?. The only thing i see proving here is that your a noob who cannot be on topic and can't even give any explanations on why i'm wrong. Hahaha, go suck on that now. Theres about 22 pages where ppl pointed you out why your wrong and why your ignorant, might read stuff next time before you poast Uhm, i didn't even start to reply to this topic before like page 16-17 or something, so there can't be 22 pages with peoples that doesn't agree with me. And if your not totally blind, there isn't one except for Dabljuh and you that doesn't agree with what i'm saying. But hey, both of you are just some whiney noob trolls who just want to have a wet dream come true. Yes i'm talking about the really stupid idea from Dabljuh. So now, please tell me who doesn't agree with me except from you and Dabljuh?. I'm really exited about who that can be. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.29 13:45:00 - [14] Originally by: marakor Originally by: Dabljuh Originally by: marakor 1 laser bs vs 1 blaster bs both webbing each other ok?. Stop you right there. In that case, both ships are equipped to fight within blaster range. The abaddon has the same slot layout as the mega so its a given it will have its mids setup with a web. Originally by: Dabljuh Blasters still have a mild DPS advantage. Wrong. After resists from each ships available tank are taken into account the baddon out damages the mega by a quite good margin, and it also has a larger tank. EXAMPLE: THESE FIGURES ARE FROM STANDARDLY FITTED RR MEGAS AND ABADDONS (as nobody fits 3 mag stabs on a RR mega). Your mega starts with 7 guns and RR with 832 gun dps and 300 drone dps to be assigned. 300 thermal drone dmg from gaurd less 75.7% = 72.9 DPS. 482.56 kinetic damage from its guns less 71.9% = 135.6 DPS. 394.44 thermal damage from its guns less 75.7% = 84.9 DPS. YOUR MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AT 4.5KM vs THE ABADDON. 4. Your mega has 73.4 em, 65.5 thermal resists and the abaddon does 58% more EM dmg with its guns than thermal so including the drones and after the megas resists: The abaddon starts with 7 guns and RR with 802 gun dps and 180 drone dps to be assigned. 180 thr drone dmg less 65.5% = 62.1 DPS. 465.16 gun em damage less 73.4% = 123.8 DPS. 336.84 gun th damage less 65.5% = 116.2 DPS. THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AT 15KM vs YOUR MEGA. THE ABAD GETS A TOTAL OF 302.1 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 0-15KM vs THE MEGA. THE MEGA GETS A TOTAL OF 293.4 MAX DPS AFTER RESISTS AT 0-4.5KM vs THE ABAD. Your mega actually has 3% LESS DPS and 300% less range, and a WEAK 52.2% explosive resist hole and also has 18% LESS EHP. AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA OMG, and we are ALL OVER IT again with the same nosense and crap you always spew out. And with the same crap as you always have been proven to be terribly wrong in. I will say it one more time. Learn to use a good setup on both ship and learn to do math. Those stats you have here is horrible. Director of Infinitus Odium.
NightmareX Infinitus Odium Scum Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.29 15:08:00 - [15] Edited by: NightmareX on 29/01/2010 15:16:20 Originally by: Seriously Bored Originally by: NightmareX Those stats you have here is horrible. In what way? If he's wrong, rip his math or methods apart. I have done it multiple times before with the exact same copy and paste stuff marakor wrote over, and all of the times i have done it, it have been proven that he's using a good setup on the Abaddon while the setup on the Mega are rather crap. And he did some few errors in his math to. Just look up on those earlier Blaster topics to find the proof. One of the things i found out is that when both the Mega and the Abaddon used very similar setup with 7 guns and one RR each and when the Mega used 1 MFS while the Abaddon used 2 HS, then still, the Mega did more DPS than the Abaddon after the resists. I think the Mega did like 9.6% more DPS than the Abaddon there while the Abaddon had 13% more armor HP over the Mega. Director of Infinitus Odium.

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