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Did I waste my time training for a Drake?

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Alderon Mizuchi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.22 20:08:00 - [1] I'll keep this short. Do Drakes have any place in EVE outside of L3 missions? I made the idiot mistake of training for a ship that doesn't get armor repped, and now that I'm looking for nullsec corps, I can't see any halfway decent one taking me. I asked about it in help chat, and the general view was that no fleet worth anything would ever have a Drake with them, or any missile and/or shield tank ship. So am I looking a month+ of race cross-training before I can get into W-Space/Nullsec corps now? I just feel like I've shot myself in the foot with this one.
Dani SP	Posted - 2009.12.22 20:14:00 - [2] Drake is probably the most popular ship on EVE, at least from what I recall from latest Quarterly Economic Newsletter... Its an awesome ship for lvl3 and lvl4 missions (great tank + missile bonus) obviously you need T2 (fury) missiles to make decent damage in lvl4 missions, but the tank is as good as a Raven. For PVP, the Drake is an excellent missile boat (use heavy assault missiles here) and insurance covers most of the loss - LOL at 38mil platinum payout.
Estel Arador Minmatar AFK	Posted - 2009.12.22 20:17:00 - [3] Drakes are fine for gangs, just not so much for large fleets. On the other hand, if you can fly a Drake you can also fly a Blackbird, which could be quite useful even in fleets. Free jumpclone service: Thread\|Expanded again!
gfldex	Posted - 2009.12.22 20:39:00 - [4] Heavy missiles got a great damage _potential_ but if you look up killmails you will see that they are not the top damage dealers. If you shoot long range the target tends to be gone or exploded before your missiles hit. Shooting stuff that got a AB running is as pointless as to shoot small stuff. Short range drakes work to some extend until you realise that a single Rapier can disable two HAM drakes at a time. An assault frig might not be able to kill you but you can't kill it either even if it's the only thing to shoot. The only reason ppl fly drakes is because they get shooten last. If you get rejected for using shield tanks it's because ppl want to remote rep each other. Shield regrow themselves but armor doesn't. And ofc you want to focus on one kind of repping. There will be plenty of ppl telling you how great drakes are. Ask them what else they can fly.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2009.12.22 21:17:00 - [5] Originally by: gfldex There will be plenty of ppl telling you how great drakes are. Ask them what else they can fly. Probably a lot of other ships too...
dtyk	Posted - 2009.12.22 21:39:00 - [6] Edited by: dtyk on 22/12/2009 21:45:48 Edited by: dtyk on 22/12/2009 21:43:41 Originally by: Alderon Mizuchi no fleet worth anything would ever have a Drake with them, or any missile and/or shield tank ship. Stopped reading there, right at the bull****tery. Take advice from someone who knows enough to give it. Drake is a fine ship, just not in an ARMOR ONLY RR FLEET. In a smaller gang or a fleet with shield transfers, it's a very nice ship if used and fit properly. Drake has a reputation as a PvE-only boat because so many people that fly them fit them for pve, instead of fitting them for PvP (even when planning on doing PvP with it.) And of course, Raven, Scorpion, Rokh, Falcon and Blackbird must all be crappy ships because they are shield tanked, and most also use missiles On the matter of what else they can fly, I can fly all caldari sub-capital ships except Marauders, and Minmatar t1 ships, interceptors, assault frigs, recons/SBs and HACS. (I have the skills to undock in the rest of Minny t2 frigs and cruisers etc. as a given due to having the skills from caldari and the frig 5, but I don't actually have much experience nor specific skills for them.) I don't personally fly drakes very often, I prefer ECM, dictors/HIC, logis or interceptors over simply chucking missiles at things.
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.22 22:30:00 - [7] You can cross-train for an Amarr or Minmatar BC in a few days. You have learning skills and many core skills, so it really doesn't take that long. You may not have super-awesome ship and turret skills in that time, but enough to get out there and have fun and be useful. I cross-trained my alt recently. He cheated. Went Minmatar BC so he uses a link, missiles, rep, and neuts... no turrets for now
Slapchop Gonnalovemynuts	Posted - 2009.12.22 22:54:00 - [8] There is no such thing as 'wasted' training time in EVE. Even if you spend a few months training to be good in amarr/gallente BC's, that time spent training for a drake will still be useful, as you will find situations in the future where being able to rock a drake is beneficial, and its those times when you will say 'damn, I am sure glad I trained for this drake!'. It is not wasteful to diversify. -------------------------------------------- Quote: EVE-Online... Too rough for ya? Don't like it? GTFO...
Xina Tutor Amarr Black Arrows Sev3rance	Posted - 2009.12.23 08:14:00 - [9] Heh.. well we have seen some large nasty drake gangs roam our space... They are not to be taken lightly. That said, there are other ships which may be more suitable. And the skills are never really wasted. They will come in use for other ventures.
Zartanic Red Federation	Posted - 2009.12.23 14:55:00 - [10] Like all games there are a lot of 'experts'. Its best to do what you have done and ask on the forums. When I was in FW there were so many ego trippers spouting off about their favourite ship and that ship X was terrible I would never fly anything If I'd listened to them all.
Snasty Caldari The Hippies House of Mercury	Posted - 2009.12.23 15:02:00 - [11] Originally by: Zartanic I would never fly anything If I'd listened to them all. This.... --------------------------------------- -=Snasty, short for Shagnasty ever since the GM's in SWG made me change it...!=-
Maria Kalista Amarr Splinter Foundation	Posted - 2009.12.23 15:31:00 - [12] Help channel is often wrong without the right vets in them. Originally by: Jacharian This sounds like a bad idea. I'm in. We are recruiting!
Asuri Kinnes Caldari The Bastards The Bastards.	Posted - 2009.12.23 15:46:00 - [13] Drakes make excellent bait... Even though EVERYONE and their brother KNOWS they are bait! Short range, shield transfer, TP/Web Drake gangs can be the bomb - also can choose damage type by changing missiles. That said, since they are so popular, everyone knows the counters... "...you pays your penny, and takes your chances..."
Dyphorus	Posted - 2009.12.23 19:43:00 - [14] As stated already, Drake is arguably one of the best ships in the game. It's the only T1 BC that can realistically run L4 missions and WH's up to class 3. It can mount a tank comparable to a low end battleship and chose it's damage type, this makes it great for PvE. It's also an excellent PvP platform, anyone that tells you differently is an idiot. A HAM drake can make 700+ DPS with a 90k buffer tank or can still make a 70-80k buffer while still fitting a MWD, scam/disruptor and a web. It is both a solid solo platform and gang ship. The only real down side is that heavy missiles are useless in PvP, so if you have no place in a ranged engagement.
Kyttain	Posted - 2009.12.23 19:53:00 - [15] Originally by: gfldex There will be plenty of ppl telling you how great drakes are. Ask them what else they can fly. Felt this needs a response. Caldari frigs - BS Min frigs - BS, T2 frigs/cruisers Drake is a fun and reliable ship. Yes it has vulnerabilities, so does every other ship. Yes some people fly drakes because it's a brick, these people also tend to take fail-PvE fits with heavy missiles into combat. In fact the tendency of a drake to not get primaried allows you to lighten up your tank and fit utility mods in your mids.... EWAR, RSBs, what ever benefits your fleet the most. Your argument about a drakes difficulty damaging an AF is pointless. A BS or any other BC will have a hard time hitting an AF pilot who's competent enough to keep his angular velocity up. You don't fly a BC/BS to shoot frigates.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2009.12.23 23:39:00 - [16] Originally by: gfldex There will be plenty of ppl telling you how great drakes are. Ask them what else they can fly. Drakes are awesome in both PVE and PVP. I can fly (with near max skills) virtually every sub cap ship in the game. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
superteds	Posted - 2009.12.24 12:09:00 - [17] Drakes rock tbqh. l3+4s, easy. PVP buffer fit HAMdrakes are lethal, and HML drakes offer nice DPS over very long range (for a nonlol-fit BC). People wail on them because everyone and his chosen pet flys them, but that doesn't make them bad. If anything, the other BC's in the game need readjusting to compete with the drake. As it stands now, possibly the most balenced ship in the game.
Synth Elleta	Posted - 2009.12.24 13:03:00 - [18] Who on earth have you been talking to? No fleet worth anything would ever have a drake with them? Crazy talk. They are awesome at PvP.
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.12.24 17:02:00 - [19] Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 24/12/2009 17:02:21 Originally by: Synth Elleta Who on earth have you been talking to? No fleet worth anything would ever have a drake with them? Crazy talk. They are awesome at PvP. This. For the record; if you meet someone going on about how Drakes are "just pve ships" or "useless bricks", it's a fair bet that person knows **** all about pvp. It's actually quite a good warning sign; I see someone putting out years-outdated views like that and I know not to take a thing they say seriously. Same goes for anyone who flies a Hawk outside of missions and plexes and anyone who still seriously thinks Quantum Rise broke missiles.
Nikolai Bazarov	Posted - 2009.12.24 18:16:00 - [20] Edited by: Nikolai Bazarov on 24/12/2009 18:16:21 Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 24/12/2009 17:02:21 Originally by: Synth Elleta Who on earth have you been talking to? No fleet worth anything would ever have a drake with them? Crazy talk. They are awesome at PvP. This. For the record; if you meet someone going on about how Drakes are "just pve ships" or "useless bricks", it's a fair bet that person knows ** all about pvp. It's actually quite a good warning sign; I see someone putting out years-outdated views like that and I know not to take a thing they say seriously. Same goes for anyone who flies a Hawk outside of missions and plexes** and anyone who still seriously thinks Quantum Rise broke missiles. Care to elaborate on that?
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.12.24 18:42:00 - [21] Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 24/12/2009 18:44:22 Originally by: Nikolai Bazarov Edited by: Nikolai Bazarov on 24/12/2009 18:16:21 Care to elaborate on that? In plexes that only allow frigates or for steamrollering low level missions, the Hawk is great. For pvp it uses a joke weapon system, absurd cap use and generally outdone in every way by the other assault frigs. Flying it marks you out as pretty clearly ignorant.
Nikolai Bazarov	Posted - 2009.12.24 18:46:00 - [22] Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 24/12/2009 18:44:22 Originally by: Nikolai Bazarov Edited by: Nikolai Bazarov on 24/12/2009 18:16:21 Care to elaborate on that? In plexes that only allow frigates or for steamrollering low level missions, the Hawk is great. For pvp it uses a joke weapon system, absurd cap use and generally outdone in every way by the other assault frigs. Flying it marks you out as pretty clearly ignorant. So rockets/light missiles are bad for pvp? (not surprising I guess) What about Kestrels? Also bad for pvp?
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.12.24 18:49:00 - [23] Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 24/12/2009 18:53:06 Originally by: Nikolai Bazarov Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 24/12/2009 18:44:22 Originally by: Nikolai Bazarov Edited by: Nikolai Bazarov on 24/12/2009 18:16:21 Care to elaborate on that? In plexes that only allow frigates or for steamrollering low level missions, the Hawk is great. For pvp it uses a joke weapon system, absurd cap use and generally outdone in every way by the other assault frigs. Flying it marks you out as pretty clearly ignorant. So rockets/light missiles are bad for pvp? (not surprising I guess) What about Kestrels? Also bad for pvp? Rockets are awful. Light missiles on the other hand are excellent. Ok not entirely awful. A Kestrel with kinetic rockets actually puts out decent dps for a tech 1 frigate, but it's going to have trouble hitting small targets because currently rockets have a buggy explosion velocity - anything going fast is going to take very little damage. It's worth noting that the Hawk is actually out-damaged by the Kestrel. It's that bad. Light missiles on the other hand are excellent. The (not heavy) Assault launcher Caracal eats frigates for breakfast, and they work pretty well on a speed fitted Kestrel. Good volley damage, nice range, and they do a good job of hitting small fast stuff.
Nikolai Bazarov	Posted - 2009.12.24 19:23:00 - [24] Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 24/12/2009 18:53:06 Originally by: Nikolai Bazarov Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 24/12/2009 18:44:22 Originally by: Nikolai Bazarov Edited by: Nikolai Bazarov on 24/12/2009 18:16:21 Care to elaborate on that? In plexes that only allow frigates or for steamrollering low level missions, the Hawk is great. For pvp it uses a joke weapon system, absurd cap use and generally outdone in every way by the other assault frigs. Flying it marks you out as pretty clearly ignorant. So rockets/light missiles are bad for pvp? (not surprising I guess) What about Kestrels? Also bad for pvp? Rockets are awful. Light missiles on the other hand are excellent. Ok not entirely awful. A Kestrel with kinetic rockets actually puts out decent dps for a tech 1 frigate, but it's going to have trouble hitting small targets because currently rockets have a buggy explosion velocity - anything going fast is going to take very little damage. It's worth noting that the Hawk is actually out-damaged by the Kestrel. It's that bad. Light missiles on the other hand are excellent. The (not heavy) Assault launcher Caracal eats frigates for breakfast, and they work pretty well on a speed fitted Kestrel. Good volley damage, nice range, and they do a good job of hitting small fast stuff. Yeah I noticed the ridiculously low explosion velocity on rockets. Has CCP come out and said anything about that? Do they intend to raise it (85m/s vs. 170 m/s for light missiles)? And after checking it does look like the bonus of the Hawk is about half of what it needs to be. Sorry for this minor hijack BTW.
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.12.24 19:25:00 - [25] Originally by: Nikolai Bazarov Yeah I noticed the ridiculously low explosion velocity on rockets. Has CCP come out and said anything about that? Do they intend to raise it (85m/s vs. 170 m/s for light missiles)? And after checking it does look like the bonus of the Hawk is about half of what it needs to be. Sorry for this minor hijack BTW. They've got something planned, but details and timescale (beyond the fact it doesn't seem to be happening anytime this decade) are limited.
Alderon Mizuchi Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.25 06:41:00 - [26] Well I was going to take my Drake into a C1 tonight. Was asking around corp chat to get some advice, and apparently can I not only not survive a C2, but apparently a C1 would get me killed too. I don't have a full T2 fit tank, and apparently that's why. Here's the fitting I was planning on using. 404 DPS Tank, with 71% resist across the board, except for Thermal sitting at 60% (And yeah, I know my Drone skills are terrible, I'm working on it). [Drake, W-Space] Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix 'Anointed' I EM Ward Reinforcement Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Salvager I Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Hobgoblin I x4
Taross Caldari People with Guns Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2009.12.25 06:55:00 - [27] Originally by: Alderon Mizuchi Well I was going to take my Drake into a C1 tonight. Was asking around corp chat to get some advice, and apparently can I not only not survive a C2, but apparently a C1 would get me killed too. I don't have a full T2 fit tank, and apparently that's why. Here's the fitting I was planning on using. 404 DPS Tank, with 71% resist across the board, except for Thermal sitting at 60% (And yeah, I know my Drone skills are terrible, I'm working on it). [Drake, W-Space] Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Shield Power Relay I Beta Reactor Control: Diagnostic System I Ballistic Control System II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix V-M15 Braced Multispectral Shield Matrix 'Anointed' I EM Ward Reinforcement Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Advanced 'Limos' Heavy Missile Bay I, Scourge Heavy Missile Salvager I Core Probe Launcher I, Core Scanner Probe I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Medium Core Defence Field Purger I Hobgoblin I x4 I think that'd WTFPWN a class one wh encounter, and probably a class two anomaly as well. But, maybe people with more experience can correct me. As to the OP: While a drake indeed would SUCK in an RR BS gang, and might be too slow for a sniper HAC gang, a gang of a bunch of drakes, a vulture, and some shield logistics is quite a kickass gang... In fact, IIRC, Triumvirate alliance spent a very entertaining month or two annoying KIA with that exact setup a while ago. And, as others said, a drake might not be welcome in every gan, but a Blackbird usually is... And if you like the ECM role and train for a falcon, everyone will want you in gang... Your signature exceeds the maximum allowed dimensions of 400x120 pixels and filesize of 24000 bytes -Sahwoolo Etoophie
Dodgy Past Amarr Debitum Naturae	Posted - 2009.12.26 10:54:00 - [28] That would be fine in C2s as well, though better to get full T2 before joining c3 gangs. In my experience in a gang drakes are fine for the anaomalies and in the non scramming mag / radar sites, though if they concentrate on you too much you may need to warp out ( hence the scramming preofession sites are a no no unless there is shield transport support ) I understand exactly why you would be turned down by many with only a drake specialisation, though with some further training there are other caldari ships that are popular in null and wormholes. a) Interceptors are good ships to get into for tackling and scouting in null and when defending a wormhole. b) Armor tanked RR'ing scorpions are awesome in higher end worm holes and useful in 0.0 fleet fights as well. You will need Hull Upgrades V and solid T2 ECM skills. c) As said already when doing T1 cruiser gangs blackbirds are often popular. Caldari are a bit limitted in certain situations, OTOH I often fly shield tanked Amarr ships with scimitar support. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards.
rofflesausage	Posted - 2009.12.26 12:32:00 - [29] Originally by: Alderon Mizuchi Well I was going to take my Drake into a C1 tonight. Was asking around corp chat to get some advice, and apparently can I not only not survive a C2, but apparently a C1 would get me killed too. I don't have a full T2 fit tank, and apparently that's why. That would handle C1s with ease. I run them in a similar Drake daily.
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.12.26 13:19:00 - [30] Quote: And, as others said, a drake might not be welcome in every gan, but a Blackbird usually is... And if you like the ECM role and train for a falcon, everyone will want you in gang... Or a Rook, those things being borderline OP now. DPS rivalling the Cerb, drone bay and superb ECM capability.

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