| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Mealtrom
   |
Posted - 2009.12.25 05:06:00 -
[1]
So I have a large lab POS and its defenses are full on ****star. I've run the numbers and it looks like there is no realistic way to beat an ECM defense short of overwhelming it with a massive number of pilots. I'm wondering if anybody knows of tricks to beat such a defense in highsec. The only thing I can think of would be something like FOF missiles or drones, which would be rapidly popped by the tower's few guns.
I want to say this setup is nigh invulnerable, but with eve you can never be too sure. Anybody want to prove me wrong?
EDIT: Speaking of drones what do people think of using small blasters as an anti-drone measure. Can things like medium batteries or cruise missiles shot from the tower hit them?
|
Bilbo II
Serenity Engineering and Transport Company
Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 06:10:00 -
[2]
Your pos will NOT shoot drones, so unless you have gunners........
|
Tau Cabalander
Caldari
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 06:27:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Tau Cabalander on 25/12/2009 06:27:12
Smartbombs don't require targeting, and are great against poorly arranged defenses.
Sniping at >200km is also a way to take out ECM.
ECM modules do have a lot of HP (over 1.6 million if I recall correctly).
Even if they get all your ECM, including spares, you should have extra shield hardeners to fill the CPU/grid to at least make it as annoying as possible.
Only sentry drones can be use against the shield bubble, but all drones work against structures. Faction small batteries might work, even blasters if you can get their range outside the shield and reach the batteries (hence anchoring at shield + 5km is good), and you have gunners.
|
Mealtrom
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 06:45:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Bilbo II
Your pos will NOT shoot drones, so unless you have gunners........
No its good. I was more afraid people would use drones like a chaff countermeasure to confuse my ECM. They'll need a lot of drones to do any substantial DPS to tower mods. Hope they bring domis. :)
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Smartbombs don't require targeting, and are great against poorly arranged defenses.
Good thinking. Would spacing defenses into small groups and ringing them with blasters that will only fire at targets inside their limited range be an efficient defense? Or just spacing defenses and ignoring smartbombs.
Originally by: Tau Cabalander
Sniping at >200km is also a way to take out ECM.
The specs on my ECM say 200 optimal and 100 falloff, out to the game's hard lock range limit of 300km. Given that I sprung for dread guristas ECM which jams 76/25 that should be pretty foolproof even well into falloff right?
|
Dasola
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 08:49:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Dasola on 25/12/2009 08:52:01
Edited by: Dasola on 25/12/2009 08:51:25
Originally by: Mealtrom
Originally by: Bilbo II
Your pos will NOT shoot drones, so unless you have gunners........
No its good. I was more afraid people would use drones like a chaff countermeasure to confuse my ECM. They'll need a lot of drones to do any substantial DPS to tower mods. Hope they bring domis. :)
If they use them to take out your ecm structures, they are counter measuring them. 
ok i asume no resists or shield recharge in following to make simple math:
Acording to item database, Ion Field Projection Battery has only 100.000 hp in shield and 1.500.000 in armor
100.000 hp in structure.
To incapasitate it you need to get it atleast 1% structure damage. So were looking at 1.601.000 hp of damage to be done.
Warden II, has most range so i asume use of them in here.
RoF= 4.00 sec, damage 1.44 x 50 hp = 72 hp/shot
Good player can control 5 of them 72*5 = 360 hp/shot
4.00 sec RoF means we get 15 shot per minute: 15*360 = 5400
So for one attacker it would take 1601000/5400 = nearly 5 hours to do this. Incapasitate one ecm mod.
Put since none is fool enough to attack alone against large tower. They bring friends. Lets say 15 ships all spewing out maximum amount of wardens.
1601000/(15*5400) = just under 20 minutes to incapasitate one ecm module.
So actyally it is guite effective attack angle, expecially if used together with long range snipers to keep ecm modules rotating target to target in larger pool of targets.
Now theres skills to boost drones firering rane and damage. Not sure about RoF boosts. Wardens also weakest damage dealer of sentry drones, but has best range to start with.
Personally i would probably go with Smartbomb strike. Easy to do if you have even one cover-ops pilot. He positions himself proper locations, Smartbomb warps in and those ecm in that spot are toasted fast. Thanks to SmartBombs omnidirectional damage dealing. Everything in range gets hit. This is why spreading them arround is very good idea.
|
Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 10:51:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Carniflex on 25/12/2009 10:54:20
ECM battery on battleship: Lock (30 sec) jam it 3x 10 sec, lock 30 sec, etc.
If you have only few POS guns that are not controlled easiest counter to that is indeed Dominixes with sentries and ignoring all the ECM and just going for the tower. All ECM goes offline once your tower is reinforced at 25%.
Sort of more or less realistic POS bashing Dominix does approx 500 dps with T2 sentries (2 sentry damage rigs, good skills). You need approx 56 million ehp worth of damage to reinforce a cldary tower. Say 20 dominixses - 10 000 dps or approx 5625 seconds or 93.75 minutes. So the tower will die in approx one and half hours. Let's assume pilots with not as good skills some lost time etc etc and double the time. Your tower will be reinforced in approx 3 hours by gang of 20 dominixses. Assuming they are totally unable to fit and use guns in addition to their sentry drones - and they propably are most of the time as ECM batteries are damn powerful against battleships.
Edit: Should you have even one pos gunner tho and few guns anchored spare that you can online once they incapaciate some of them you can to pretty bad things to sutch gang. Like for example popping their drones one by one for the great annoyance or focusing enough fire on the one of the ships to pop them one by one if they can't realistically R&R each other.
|
ImLost InSpace
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 15:25:00 -
[7]
You don't need to watch out for smartbombs in highsec. One neutral ship will take care of such attackers. And btw, a fleet of 40-50 or more remote rep battleships will still take it down pretty quickly.
|
Misty Lilly
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 15:34:00 -
[8]
As soon as you think it is invulnerable, it isn't. Several highly skilled stealth bombers were surprisingly (pun intended) effective against some of my automated defenses.
Of course, a few members with SDM to III or IV - and small/medium guns - will turn the tide.
In the end, plan to lose it. If you can't afford to lose it, then don't build it.
|
Mealtrom
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 17:08:00 -
[9]
Thanks for all the ideas guys. And yea I know theres no such thing as safe in Eve, I'm just trying to get as close as possible. If somebody really wants this thing down, it'll go down.
To answer a few questions I'm using faction mods which have double health (200k shield 3m armor for ECM) so that will buy some good time. And I also have a rack of medium guns as well as webs and scrams. As soon as POS gunners are available (we only have a few) it will become a turkey shoot. The ECM defense is mainly to buy time until then and discourage pirates from a very long and annoying campaign against me. I'm hoping that in the 28 hours or so that my POS mods can stand up to a decently sized gang I'll have been POS gunning and suiciding discoballs into them for some time.
|
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 17:25:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Mealtrom
ECM defense [...]tricks to beat such a defense in highsec.
ECCM ?
_
We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Mealtrom
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 17:34:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Mealtrom
ECM defense [...]tricks to beat such a defense in highsec.
ECCM ?
Sister I hope you have a lot of it. The primary jam strength on those things is 76.
|
Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 18:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Mealtrom
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Mealtrom
ECM defense [...]tricks to beat such a defense in highsec.
ECCM ?
Sister I hope you have a lot of it. The primary jam strength on those things is 76.
Dread guristas ones only. Regular ones have 45. That is still quite enough to pretty reliably jam even battleships with several ECCM fitted. Basically if jam strenght is above sensor strenght number then jam propability is 100%, if under that then the jam propability is ships sensors / jam strenghts. So even if you get yourself into pretty high levels of sensors ECCM will not help you a lot against ECM batteries on battleships.
|
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 21:35:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Akita T on 25/12/2009 21:38:44
Originally by: Carniflex
Dread guristas ones only [[have 76]]. Regular ones have 45. That is still quite enough to pretty reliably jam even battleships with several ECCM fitted. Basically if jam strenght is above sensor strenght number then jam propability is 100%, if under that then the jam propability is ships sensors / jam strenghts. So even if you get yourself into pretty high levels of sensors ECCM will not help you a lot against ECM batteries on battleships.
A Raven with 2x ECCM - Gravimetric II gets roughly 79 sensor strength.
Using instead 2x ECCM - Projector II and working with two others, you get up to almost 99.
Proteus with Info Warfare Mindlink pilot and Sensor Integrity link active can be up to +42.19% fleet sensor strength (even if it is sadly also affected by stack-nerfing). In the previous 2 case, that would come up as 98 and 123, respectively.
And we can also start talking about the new factional implants that give bonus to ship sensor strength... so not even 246 sensor strength on a small Raven fleet would be too extreme to consider possible (expensive, sure, but not impossible, especially if the pilots are actually specialized in such takedowns). Of course, this last part is just theorycrafting, in practice you will hardly even encounter such a setup, but since the OP asked to "prove him wrong" about his setup being nigh-invulnerable...
P.S. Of course, then there's also the "high sensor strength" T3 strategic cruiser setups, which also have the advantage of also being pretty fast and small (to avoid most "other guns" fire) while still dealing a respectable amount of damage.
_
We are recruiting | Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper |
Kiyirari
All Star Shipyards
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 21:56:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Akita T
Edited by: Akita T on 25/12/2009 21:38:44
Originally by: Carniflex
Dread guristas ones only [[have 76]]. Regular ones have 45. That is still quite enough to pretty reliably jam even battleships with several ECCM fitted. Basically if jam strenght is above sensor strenght number then jam propability is 100%, if under that then the jam propability is ships sensors / jam strenghts. So even if you get yourself into pretty high levels of sensors ECCM will not help you a lot against ECM batteries on battleships.
A Raven with 2x ECCM - Gravimetric II gets roughly 79 sensor strength.
Using instead 2x ECCM - Projector II and working with two others, you get up to almost 99.
Proteus with Info Warfare Mindlink pilot and Sensor Integrity link active can be up to +42.19% fleet sensor strength (even if it is sadly also affected by stack-nerfing). In the previous 2 case, that would come up as 98 and 123, respectively.
And we can also start talking about the new factional implants that give bonus to ship sensor strength... so not even 246 sensor strength on a small Raven fleet would be too extreme to consider possible (expensive, sure, but not impossible, especially if the pilots are actually specialized in such takedowns). Of course, this last part is just theorycrafting, in practice you will hardly even encounter such a setup, but since the OP asked to "prove him wrong" about his setup being nigh-invulnerable...
P.S. Of course, then there's also the "high sensor strength" T3 strategic cruiser setups, which also have the advantage of also being pretty fast and small (to avoid most "other guns" fire) while still dealing a respectable amount of damage.
Ya thats pretty sweet 
Revenge is my god and my guns are her angels |
Mealtrom
|
Posted - 2009.12.25 22:22:00 -
[15]
That is pretty impressive, but like you said hardly probable. That and it forces them to run really gimped setups so its still working in a way. Not to mention you'd still get at least 50% jam on most of the setups, which isn't bad at all.
|
Miss Xerox
|
Posted - 2009.12.26 03:09:00 -
[16]
A good way to set up pos defenses, IMO, but annoying to load/rep, is to put them in a hauler and set it to orbit at anchoring range. When one anchors, kick out and anchor another. This spaces them all over the place in a pretty messy sphere that hostiles have to truck between if they're using short range setups.
Sniping ships are a problem, but their DPS is generally pretty low and against high HP targets it will take them ages to disable.
Another tactic is to put your ECM/Scrams/Webs at the optimal of your short range guns (pulses/autos/blasters) as most POS fleets are short range and sitting close enough to engage the EWar they'll be sitting there for the guns to work on.
|
Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
|
Posted - 2009.12.26 09:03:00 -
[17]
Yes. You can get battleship high enough that it will not be jammed with 100% sucsess rate. However even with sensor str 100 the propability that you get jammed if the regular ECM battery locks is relatively high, as it will do 3 cykles on you on non caldary tower. On caldary tower the ECM jumps around a lot more ofc. Ie you will be facing 3x 45% propability to get jammed per lock cykle, assuming ofc that the ECM battery that locked you is correct racial type. If it's wrong type then ofc you have a lot better propability to not get jammed.
So yeh. ECM batteries are not the miracle defence in hi sec making your tower immune to attack. They do fill however quite important role making sure that your attackers can't just afk your tower with 3 battleships over the 8h or so.
Good setup is either 2 or 5 hardeners, approx 12-15 ECM, approx 10 dampeners, warp scrammers / disruptor or few and rest of the grid filled with weaponry plus extra gridful or two of weaponry anchored and loaded with ammo but offline, to be onlined once the tower is reinforced. Medium artillery batteries are good in that regard as they have pretty good effectivity / onlining time ratio and can be devastating if you have enough pos gunners to control full grid of them.
|
Sigras
|
Posted - 2009.12.28 10:32:00 -
[18]
Your tower would be quite hard to break; but if it's not manned and your wts have a *TON* of stealth bomber pilots willing to shoot at the tower 23/7 they will eventually kill all the mods and then the tower.
Or they might just take the tower, but yeah ECM stars in high sec are win.
|
Eseay
|
Posted - 2009.12.28 22:54:00 -
[19]
if somebody wants to kill it, its gonna die. only way to save it would be with a fleet of your own.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |