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TinFoilHatz
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Posted - 2009.12.27 00:19:00 -
[1]
I know for a fact that I was not the only vet player to quit or, at the very least, get turned off from playing Eve when Warp to 0 was introduced.
It changed the whole dynamic of PvP, and instead of being able to solo PvP in a HAC or solo ship you now have to form fleets to kill a single cruiser. Now 0.0 space is no where to go unless you have a fleet and multiple capital ships.
The Eve community tried to adjust because PvP now sucked in 0.0 and formed Privateers, in which CCP nerf'd as well. Once again removing risk and buffing carebears.
CCP needs to reintroduce warp to 15, but also introduce revolving solar systems to prevent bookmarks (like systems turning once a day).
I for one, would take Eve over WoW anyday for the PvP if warp to 15 were back.
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NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.12.27 00:45:00 -
[2]
Oh quit crying. WTZ changed nothing other than what side of the gate you camp. Everyone already had BM's 15km's past the gates so everyone in null-sec was already WTZ'ing anyway. It just saved them the 50trillion BM's that were in the database that had no real purpose once they introduced WTZ. Get off your high horse.
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Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.27 01:06:00 -
[3]
So it's only WTZ that's the decider between EVE and WoW, hmmm.....
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You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag.
Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited! |
Pan Dora
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.12.27 01:15:00 -
[4]
I touch myself when WPZing!
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I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
Hugo Lordmagnus
Caldari
Vexillari
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Posted - 2009.12.27 02:29:00 -
[5]
Alll of the things that you're asking for make it seem like all you want to do is sit at a gate and wait for gank targets to show up. Duck Hunt as a good game for that; not really EVE.
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TinFoilHatz
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Posted - 2009.12.27 05:31:00 -
[6]
No, it has nothing to do with gate camping. You can't chase targets when they're hitting gates at WTZ.
WTZ changed much more than what side gate camping happened on, it changed the entire PvP dynamic. You can no longer pursue targets in empire or 0.0 space, nor could you catch up with them (unless over a space of many systems).
Gank squads were encouraged much more as catching anything required interceptors and a gang of cruisers++.
If you're arguing that this didn't ruin the fundamentals of PvP in Eve than you're seriously mistaken.
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NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.12.27 05:37:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: TinFoilHatz
No, it has nothing to do with gate camping. You can't chase targets when they're hitting gates at WTZ.
WTZ changed much more than what side gate camping happened on, it changed the entire PvP dynamic. You can no longer pursue targets in empire or 0.0 space, nor could you catch up with them (unless over a space of many systems).
Gank squads were encouraged much more as catching anything required interceptors and a gang of cruisers++.
If you're arguing that this didn't ruin the fundamentals of PvP in Eve than you're seriously mistaken.
What fundamentals? The ones where those that weren't 'connected' to a corp or alliance that had every system already mapped were doomed to a gank squad? Yes in that case it made the playing field even. You can still catch people. I have caught interceptors in my covert ops so it is possible. If you can't adapt then you're doomed to failure. CCP just made it so that those that were in alliances didn't have an upper hand in something as simple as a batch of 1000's of bookmarks.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2009.12.27 06:24:00 -
[8]
Originally by: TinFoilHatz
No, it has nothing to do with gate camping. You can't chase targets when they're hitting gates at WTZ.
Stop being so damn lazy and make your own Warp To 70 instead.
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TinFoilHatz
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Posted - 2009.12.27 08:28:00 -
[9]
Edited by: TinFoilHatz on 27/12/2009 08:31:53
Originally by: NightF0x
Originally by: TinFoilHatz
No, it has nothing to do with gate camping. You can't chase targets when they're hitting gates at WTZ.
WTZ changed much more than what side gate camping happened on, it changed the entire PvP dynamic. You can no longer pursue targets in empire or 0.0 space, nor could you catch up with them (unless over a space of many systems).
Gank squads were encouraged much more as catching anything required interceptors and a gang of cruisers++.
If you're arguing that this didn't ruin the fundamentals of PvP in Eve than you're seriously mistaken.
What fundamentals? The ones where those that weren't 'connected' to a corp or alliance that had every system already mapped were doomed to a gank squad? Yes in that case it made the playing field even. You can still catch people. I have caught interceptors in my covert ops so it is possible. If you can't adapt then you're doomed to failure. CCP just made it so that those that were in alliances didn't have an upper hand in something as simple as a batch of 1000's of bookmarks.
What fundamentals? Honestly?
If you seriously argue that PvP hadn't changed significantly due to WTZ than you're seriously mistaken.
Chasing war targets through empire or chasing targets through 0.0 changed significantly.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 08:36:00 -
[10]
Worst idea for quite a while.
I know the old times of having to manage several thousands of bookmarks. Managing them and copying was an absolute PITA and even then you had to avoid a lot of systems since there where no bookmarks.
No the game will not improve without WTZ but the gameplay will start to return to the old style, of people camping chokepoints and any lowsec system, especially if you are in a slow ship without bookmarks, would be a deathtrap again.
No thanks. Quit whining about WTZ and work for your kills.
Quote:
Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.27 08:37:00 -
[11]
no we dont want the 10000s of bookmarks back.
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Swish3r
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Posted - 2009.12.27 08:42:00 -
[12]
@OP- No.
You're lucky enough they gave you the however-far-away-from-the-gate on jump ins.
/sign on half of the orbiting systems, there should be a relativistic bookmark system though, say a BM would instead of being at xyz it would be x au from celestial p at angles a[]
There is still solo pvp, for the lucky and patient.
You are just lazy and wont go hunting.
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Intigo
Amarr
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.12.27 08:47:00 -
[13]
No.
___________________
HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it. |
Jinx Majina
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Posted - 2009.12.27 08:51:00 -
[14]
Originally by: TinFoilHatz
Now 0.0 space is no where to go unless you have a fleet and multiple capital ships.
I don't know. I pvp often in 0.0 and I don't have multiple capital ships with me.
Quote:
It changed the whole dynamic of PvP, and instead of being able to solo PvP in a HAC or solo ship you now have to form fleets to kill a single cruiser.
You do know you're playing an MMO, a massively multiplayer online game right?
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TinFoilHatz
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Posted - 2009.12.27 08:58:00 -
[15]
You are ALL missing the point. I gave a quality suggestion to the bookmark problem.
I doubt any of you whom have posted have PvP'd from 2003-'04 (since Eve started) until the WTZ nerf. I have. Anyway, if that criteria doesn't involve you than I really don't think you have much say.
The PvP in Eve prior to the WTZ nerf is what involved many players across the world. Sci-Fi + competitive PvP that involved risk was the best at its time.
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Deviana Sevidon
Gallente
Panta-Rhei
Butterfly Effect Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.27 09:04:00 -
[16]
I think we all got trolled but an X-mas Emo on too much sugar.
Quote:
Disclaimer: All mentioned above contains my opinion and is therefore an absolute truth (for me anyway, my universe, muhahaha.....ok, done
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.27 09:14:00 -
[17]
Edited by: darius mclever on 27/12/2009 09:17:58
Originally by: TinFoilHatz
You are ALL missing the point. I gave a quality suggestion to the bookmark problem.
I doubt any of you whom have posted have PvP'd from 2003-'04 (since Eve started) until the WTZ nerf. I have. Anyway, if that criteria doesn't involve you than I really don't think you have much say.
The PvP in Eve prior to the WTZ nerf is what involved many players across the world. Sci-Fi + competitive PvP that involved risk was the best at its time.
ok lets take your proposal about moving planets and stuff.
many gates are not next to any celestial. they wouldnt move anywhere.
And I would trust people like Intigo, that we dont need to remove WTZ to get kills.
Dictors and good ceptor pilots easily manage to tackle targets.
Last but not least ... given the number of freighter ganking in the last few weeks, one of the very few defensives people had was warping the freighter to 0 to the gate. if you take that away you pretty much make it impossible (or atleast cumbersome (warp frig to 15, pedal to gate, warp freighter to gang member)) to move freighters around with basic safety.
people still do happy solo pvp in hacs/bc/frigates/cruiser and even get kills on gates. sure you cant "farm" slow/weak targets on gates anymore.
May i suggest batmobile or Mindgame or pewplz.
Just a few recent entries that came to mind.
Adapt or die i guess?
edit: just thought more about your bookmark idea. it would ruin bookmarks in general. bookmark your pos, come back 2 weeks later to fuel it and everything moved and you cant warp to your pos anymore?! if you could still bookmark your pos in a moving solar system you would also be able to bookmark that gate. i guess you really need to adapt and get kills elsewhere.
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Reggie Stoneloader
JAFA Trade and Manufacturing Cooperative
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Posted - 2009.12.27 09:37:00 -
[18]
I like it the way it is. Solo PvP should be difficult, and it should happen in belts, so you're far from the gates and stations, just like the other guy is.
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Crusades: Security Status |
Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.12.27 10:19:00 -
[19]
Originally by: TinFoilHatz
chasing targets through 0.0 changed significantly.
Maybe it's just me, but bubbles make this part of your argument rather moot, no?
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My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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T0Y
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Posted - 2009.12.27 10:47:00 -
[20]
Originally by: TinFoilHatz
I doubt any of you whom have posted have PvP'd from 2003-'04 (since Eve started) until the WTZ nerf. I have. Anyway, if that criteria doesn't involve you than I really don't think you have much say.
It was originally wtz in the early days, then got changed to wt15.
Does this mean you can't comment on it either?
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Mahai Ano
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.12.27 10:52:00 -
[21]
yeez, just anchor a bubble and they warp to that. Stop being lazy and wanting to be spoonfed with shuttles and eggs.
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Lady Australia
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:06:00 -
[22]
gbk2wow
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Seishi Maru
The Black Dawn Gang
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Posted - 2009.12.27 11:19:00 -
[23]
Brign back warp to 15 or maybe warp to 10.
And WITHOTU bookmarks. HOw?
SIMPLE. Keepign warp to zero (uhh?) but all warps have an imprecision of 10 km on any direction.
All solved. THe tons of bookmarks excuse is gone.
And yes game was MUCH more interesting before warp to zero. Nothign ever damaged the game structure as much as warp to zero. Gate camps are far far more anoyign when at the oposite side of gate and far more necessary since there is no middle ground anymore to fight anyone.
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NightF0x
Gallente
Intergalactic League of Terrorists
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Posted - 2009.12.27 14:23:00 -
[24]
Originally by: TinFoilHatz
You are ALL missing the point. I gave a quality suggestion to the bookmark problem.
I doubt any of you whom have posted have PvP'd from 2003-'04 (since Eve started) until the WTZ nerf. I have. Anyway, if that criteria doesn't involve you than I really don't think you have much say.
The PvP in Eve prior to the WTZ nerf is what involved many players across the world. Sci-Fi + competitive PvP that involved risk was the best at its time.
You mean the same point that you can't add any more detail to and just keep repeating it? I have been in-game participating in PVP since 2006 and was here before WTZ took effect so I do know what I'm talking about. Your failure to realize that your advantage was due to having bookmarks 15km's past the gates in every direction simply was the same thing as WTZ. CCP just leveled the field so people didn't overwhelm the database and had equal footing getting into null-sec. BTW, if you haven't resubbed since then how are you posting in th forums?
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Pan Dora
Caldari
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.12.27 15:07:00 -
[25]
Originally by: NightF0x
Y BTW, if you haven't resubbed since then how are you posting in th forums?
Its the power of dark side of trolling.
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I like to play this game because it make my in-game actions and archievments to mean something in-game. |
Serge Bastana
Gallente
GWA Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.27 15:16:00 -
[26]
Maybe one of those 5 days for free offer, using it well then 
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You either need a punch up the throat or a good shag.
Nobody round here is offering the second one therefore your choices are limited! |
DuKackBoon
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Posted - 2009.12.27 15:37:00 -
[27]
Originally by: TinFoilHatz
No, it has nothing to do with gate camping. You can't chase targets when they're hitting gates at WTZ.
I do that quite often, and also often suceed doing so.
Originally by: TinFoilHatz
If you're arguing that this did ruin the fundamentals of PvP in Eve than you're seriously mistaken.
^fixd.
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Kosh Tolstar
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.29 15:56:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Hugo Lordmagnus
Alll of the things that you're asking for make it seem like all you want to do is sit at a gate and wait for gank targets to show up. Duck Hunt as a good game for that; not really EVE.
WTZ s nothing,.. you wanna catch something? Then grind out your interdictor skills. That, or shut up and go back to sissy WoW-vile.
You want a challenge? Like the other guy said, quit whinning, and figure out a way to over-come "YOUR" problem. We dont have a problem with WTZ. If anything, it ups the challenge of the chase.
"Enjoy the thrill of the hunt", "Stalk your prey, making them sweat buckets, while they fill their shorts with (insert choice here)".
LETS KEEP IDEAS CONSTRUCTIVE, AND NOT WHINEY SISSY "I WANT IT THIS WAY" |
Zaiyo Modi
Minmatar
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Posted - 2009.12.29 16:12:00 -
[29]
I suppose the devs could turn the stargates into a variant of a mobile warp disruptor, always pulling ships out of warp at 15km range, regardless of any bookmark usage.
I have to assume that the devs already are aware of this opportunity :| so I had no fun coming up with this twist. |
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