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Calexis Atredies	Posted - 2009.12.27 00:45:00 - [1] I have been trying on SI for a while now in the Syndicate region to locate wormholes for test purposes. I find it kinda soul destroying that finding WH's should be so difficult. I wish for CCP to implement the following in the FD-MLJ system: Place static WH's within FD-MLJ solar system, prefferably one to each wormhole class. It would help player testing in regards to WH mechanics greatly, currently this is a section of the game that I believe the test server doesnt accomodate for. Make the sigs easy to find (give them a high sig) and you can be likely to benefit from player input on WH bugs etc. Its a simple request really, and the benefits of this would be mutual for both your dev team and the players.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2009.12.28 10:02:00 - [2] Strongly opposed. W-space should have never been put on test server at all. But since it is, I'm glad you at least have to put some effort into sisi wh-testing. There should be some things left in this game that require dedication, and effort.
Burnharder	Posted - 2009.12.29 13:24:00 - [3] Originally by: Qui Shon Strongly opposed. W-space should have never been put on test server at all. But since it is, I'm glad you at least have to put some effort into sisi wh-testing. There should be some things left in this game that require dedication, and effort. I'm not sure what your reasoning is here. The test server is to test game content and functionality. It's useful for us to test setups/strategies without risking our stash in the real game. That's why it works: we wouldn't use the test server if it wasn't useful to our gameplay on tranq. WH should be included for sure, if at all possible. That it isn't is a real dissapointment.
General Meridus Minmatar	Posted - 2009.12.29 16:31:00 - [4] Originally by: Qui Shon Strongly opposed. W-space should have never been put on test server at all... Well that makes about zero sense.
Aliraxi Gallente Gangrel Mining and Security High Treason Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.29 23:16:00 - [5] Originally by: General Meridus Originally by: Qui Shon Strongly opposed. W-space should have never been put on test server at all... Well that makes about zero sense. What he said. Whats the point of not putting something to TEST on the TEST server.
Calexis Atredies	Posted - 2009.12.30 15:25:00 - [6] So any chance we can get input from a dev as to whether it would be possible to seed static wormholes in FD-MLJ?
Helican Vamberfeld	Posted - 2010.01.01 09:57:00 - [7] Edited by: Helican Vamberfeld on 01/01/2010 09:57:48 I can't agree more. When you are manning up to do a class 5 or 6 mag or Radar site for the first time, going in unknowledgeable is a great way to get billions of hard earned ISK trashed Not to mention... isn't this what a TEST server is for?
Ezekiel Sulastin Gallente Shiva Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.01.01 10:13:00 - [8] ... The test server is NOT intended for you to test your latest superl33t setup - this functionality happens to be an effect of the unrestricted use. The test server is meant for glitch hunting or in some cases ship tweaking on CCP's end. It's for their benefit, not yours. Maybe Calexis has the right idea; the rest of you don't.
d3vo The Missionaries	Posted - 2010.01.01 20:03:00 - [9] I think it would be helpful if a list of present wormholes were listed near FD-MLJ.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2010.01.02 19:02:00 - [10] Originally by: Burnharder Originally by: Qui Shon Strongly opposed. W-space should have never been put on test server at all. But since it is, I'm glad you at least have to put some effort into sisi wh-testing. There should be some things left in this game that require dedication, and effort. I'm not sure what your reasoning is here. The test server is to test game content and functionality. It's useful for us to test setups/strategies without risking our stash in the real game. That's why it works: we wouldn't use the test server if it wasn't useful to our gameplay on tranq. WH should be included for sure, if at all possible. That it isn't is a real dissapointment. Wtf are you on about, they ARE included, so you can quit your whining. It's not even that hard to find suitable systems, as I've done it multiple times now. I wish it wasn't possible to do, but since it is, I sure made use of it. So get your lazy ass in a covops and go scanning, or forget about it. Same goes for OP. Your "testing", would not benefit CCP, only you. So put forth some effort for it. When w-space was launched, they were NOT included, instead an older mirror was used for a good while post Apo, for the express purpose of denying people the chance to test out sleepers in complete safety on Sisi, before risking ships on tranq. To keep it as "the unknown" for as long as possible. This is the sentiment I wish they would have kept, and which you people now have trouble grasping.
Aliraxi Gallente Gangrel Mining and Security High Treason Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.02 20:57:00 - [11] Before dominion I had enlisted the help of 2 other people to help find a wormhole. One of us took empire, one took lowsec and I took 00. Between us we scanned roughly 120 systems, and not 1 wormhole of any class. Whereas on TQ I can scan 5-10 systems and get a wormhole, this is ridiculous. I can see lowering it a bit to make it a challenge, but 120 systems and not 1? Give me a break. And your argument of CCP keeping it "the unknown" is absolutely pointless since it's already known. There are even programs that have been put together to make it a simple task of knowing what you're getting into. It's out, its been released, there are no secrets. So why not make it easier for the people that wish to test things, and stop them from having to waste hours trying to find the content they wish to test. "Oh yes, we'll make a test server, but in order to test some of the content, you have to go and spend hours to find it." That makes a hell of a lot of sense.
Just Buch	Posted - 2010.01.03 01:28:00 - [12] Edited by: Just Buch on 03/01/2010 01:29:29 Edited by: Just Buch on 03/01/2010 01:28:44 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1209997/page/1#2 wormholes on sisi
Calexis Atredies	Posted - 2010.01.04 16:32:00 - [13] Originally by: Just Buch Edited by: Just Buch on 03/01/2010 01:29:29 Edited by: Just Buch on 03/01/2010 01:28:44 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1209997/page/1#2 wormholes on sisi Yeah I am aware of this thread, but a CCP representative shouldnt have to take time out of their shedule to post the where abouts of wormholes on the test server. Also the sigs are almost always expired by the time you get there, you really have to be on the ball to make the most of that thread. Fact remains, it should be catered for, now making up a huge chunk of EVE... as for those who wish to keep it secret and all - GET REAL. There is plenty of information and documentation on the net for the WH's of EVE, fact is though that there are certain mechanics which I think should be documented and put forward to CCP for fixing. Heres one to start: POS in a WH and their modules which recieve a bonus from a pulsar regenerate the HP bonus to their shields after EVERY downtime. This is more of a mechanics issue due to entity stats and how they are stored during downtime, pernsonaly I think it should keep the added HP once its been fully regenrated. I still need to look at the other WH effects on starbases.
d3vo Isotope Laboratories	Posted - 2010.01.04 18:58:00 - [14] Originally by: Just Buch Edited by: Just Buch on 03/01/2010 01:29:29 Edited by: Just Buch on 03/01/2010 01:28:44 http://www.eve-search.com/thread/1209997/page/1#2 wormholes on sisi That is 2 months ago. I'm not sure if that is reliable anymore.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2010.01.05 13:38:00 - [15] Edited by: Qui Shon on 05/01/2010 13:42:48 Originally by: Aliraxi Before dominion I had enlisted the help of 2 other people to help find a wormhole. One of us took empire, one took lowsec and I took 00. Between us we scanned roughly 120 systems, and not 1 wormhole of any class. Whereas on TQ I can scan 5-10 systems and get a wormhole, this is ridiculous. I can see lowering it a bit to make it a challenge, but 120 systems and not 1? Give me a break. Well that's really odd considering that I've scanned down suitable k-space wh's on sisi twice this fall, both times discarding the first 2-5 of those I found, because they did not lead to the type of systems/wh's I wanted to check out. Why can I do it twice and you can't do it once? Are your figures perhaps exaggerated? Are you saying they've changed something since Dominion regarding wh spawns? Bear in mind, people have whined about not finding wh's on sisi since Apo release. Yet, when I give it a go, I find them just fine. Why is that? Quote: And your argument of CCP keeping it "the unknown" is absolutely pointless since it's already known. There are even programs that have been put together to make it a simple task of knowing what you're getting into. It's out, its been released, there are no secrets. Then I guess you don't need to test anything then huh, if there are no unknowns left and everything is documented for your convenience. Quote: So why not make it easier for the people that wish to test things, and stop them from having to waste hours trying to find the content they wish to test. Because we don't need even more easymode exploitation of the test server for riskless personal Tranquility advantage, and w-space should retain as much risk and difficulty as possible, for as long as possible. It's already far too easy making a living there as it is. Devs hinted at sleepers taking down pos's at one point, but it seems that was just empty promises. Originally by: Calexis Atredies Fact remains, it should be catered for... It IS catered for. I've done it! You can too. Do you know why I did it twice? Because after getting set up in a suitable system, going out for more supplies and coming back in / logging off, CCP went and did a Sisi rollback, so that the next time I logged on, I was back outside, one system from my test base...with the WH expired....fun. Did I come to forums to complain? Did I *** at some GM to move me back inside? No, I did all the work again. And here you are, can't even do it once....tsk tsk. Quote:** Heres one to start: POS in a WH and their modules which recieve a bonus from a pulsar regenerate the HP bonus to their shields after EVERY downtime. This is more of a mechanics issue due to entity stats and how they are stored during downtime, pernsonaly I think it should keep the added HP once its been fully regenerated. I still need to look at the other WH effects on starbases. So does everything else. When you join a gang for example, you always get to regenerate the extra shield from bonuses. Each time the bonus goes into effect, after not having been in effect. Caldari capital pilots complain because they're always missing some 20-25% of their EHP when arriving in a system, compared to armor tanked capitals who get their bonus applied "fully repaired" so to speak. This isn't wh-specific, as you said yourself. Pos mods do not get range bonuses/penalties from system, so I doubt they get dmg / strength bonuses either. What else do you want to test?
Calexis Atredies	Posted - 2010.01.05 15:50:00 - [16] Edited by: Calexis Atredies on 05/01/2010 15:50:45 Qui Shon, you realy dont strike me as a person who voices a valid opinion. You say that people shouldnt be able to visit wormholes on SI, yet you go there and do it yourslef. What you fail to understand is some people have to go out and work for a living, some of us have families... this means we dont have the amount of free time you have to burn on the test server. If you found WH's quickly then good for you, but their nature is random... so don't expect the same for everyone else. And you comprehension of the point I put across with pulsars is... well terrible. I am stating that POS hitpoints are RESET after every down time, this is a database issue. It is a flaw in the game, simply saying that the inheritance tree for a game enetity is broken during downtime. Just because the server goes offline for a short period does not mean a tower with 48 million hitpoint + N% should have to regenerate that N% once the server goes back up... the tower in the game world does not simply dissapear and go elsewhere it is in that system all the time. You talk of jumping in and out of systems and gang bonuses is completely irrelevant.
ZiYauRen Gallente RedShift Limited Sang Do Oligarchic Democracy	Posted - 2010.01.05 15:59:00 - [17] Quit trying to reason w/this guy Cal... let him be satified that he has added a new dimension to the term 'synaptically challenged'.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2010.01.05 17:56:00 - [18] Originally by: Calexis Atredies Qui Shon, you realy dont strike me as a person who voices a valid opinion. You say that people shouldnt be able to visit wormholes on SI, yet you go there and do it yourslef. What you fail to understand is some people have to go out and work for a living, some of us have families... this means we dont have the amount of free time you have to burn on the test server. If you found WH's quickly then good for you, but their nature is random... so don't expect the same for everyone else. My opinion isn't valid because it differs from yours? Because I don't want easymode, like you? Is that an invalid wish? Yea, I work for a living too ms/mr. That doesn't stop me from enjoying a game where everything isn't handed to me on a silver platter. Where I get to make a choice between making an effort, or missing out on the reward or benefit. You? You want there to be no such choice, or the difference between them to be smaller. As for me going on sisi to test wh's despite wishing it wasn't possible, obviously I'm going to take advantage of a given opportunity, since it is available. It would be stupid to put oneself at a disadvantage versus other players simply because I feel that advantage shouldn't exist. I think scanning is way too easy and quick also, do you propose I make a personal choice to use a non-bonused ship to get scanning difficulty to the level I want it to be at, instead of rigged covops? Do you even understand that this is the principle your statement implies? Or will your reaction be, uh, he must be synaptically challenged? Quote: And you comprehension of the point I put across with pulsars is... well terrible. I am stating that POS hitpoints are RESET after every down time, this is a database issue. It is a flaw in the game, simply saying that the inheritance tree for a game enetity is broken during downtime. Just because the server goes offline for a short period does not mean a tower with 48 million hitpoint + N% should have to regenerate that N% once the server goes back up... the tower in the game world does not simply dissapear and go elsewhere it is in that system all the time. You talk of jumping in and out of systems and gang bonuses is completely irrelevant. Is it? Even though it sounds like the very same mechanic causing it? That of shield bonuses being applied after loading the entity, and as "un-repped" hp? It's still irrelevant? You think POS's should be the exception to every other player operated object? You think it's worth the effort for CCP to do that, to code in such an exception? It sure doesn't sound like a db error to me, it sounds like a consistent method of calculating shield hp, applied to everything player operated. Originally by: ZiYauRen Quit trying to reason w/this guy Cal... let him be satified that he has added a new dimension to the term 'synaptically challenged'. Ad hominems do wonders for spreading your viewpoint. They really do. Especially in this case.
Khalik Artonid	Posted - 2010.01.05 18:13:00 - [19] You keep saying you wish it was harder, but this is a test server, it means nothing, so why not make it easier? Theres no point in having a challenge if theres no extra worth.
Qui Shon	Posted - 2010.01.05 18:47:00 - [20] The same reason they want to test there in the first place, and why I did it. Because the advantage (knowledge in this case) carries over directly to TQ. Because you don't have to risk your TQ stuff to experiment on sisi, yet the result of that experiment is the same, knowledge of what works and what doesn't.
Hungry Bob	Posted - 2010.01.05 20:49:00 - [21] Originally by: Qui Shon The same reason they want to test there in the first place, and why I did it. Because the advantage (knowledge in this case) carries over directly to TQ. Because you don't have to risk your TQ stuff to experiment on sisi, yet the result of that experiment is the same, knowledge of what works and what doesn't. For what it's worth I actually kind of agree. People say the test server was made to test this kind of thing but it really wasn't. As far as I know it was made to test patches and balance issues, not to get a free ride testing setups. Then again, not really something to get annoyed about. To each their own.
ScottChaos Caldari Serenus Legion LEGIO ASTARTES ARCANUM	Posted - 2010.01.07 07:20:00 - [22] Many of you have made fully valid points. And although I won't say everyone's on an Ego trip supporting only their own opinions, I will say that some of you wouldn't think to question your own ways of thinking, yet you're so ready to rebuke everything everybody else says. I agree with everybody here, honestly. But I wish there was more compassion in this thread. Consideration for other people's viewpoints, before your own. Something selfless would be nice instead of stating everything you've collected to make yourself look like a protagonist.
Sunbound	Posted - 2010.01.07 09:17:00 - [23] Make an alt character, train astrometrics, frigate 3 or 4, and maybe cloaking. Should take around a day if not less. Get that char into a probing frig with gravimetric capacitor rigs, put him into w-space, and leave him there. On the next mirror, he can scan out the exit from inside (on Singularity).
Jack Snack Caldari Polish Task Forces	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:49:00 - [24] @General Meridus: Basing on your point we should ask why does all cost 100ISK? We should put some effort in testing >_< It's not like every player is playing on SiSi. Usualy when someone hears "a test server" he thinks it's so buggy you won't be able to join (or something like that...). When he hears that his skills will be half-year old, and then you need another Gigs of space for SiSi version, well he won't go for SiSi. Maybe not a static WH, but a highly increased chance for a wormhole spawn in the system would be useful. I can bet there are many men who are only waiting to exploit some sleepers ;) Anyway I doubt CCP will upgrade a single system like that... They'd have to upgrade whole world (I think... I have no idea how CCP is connecting server clusters with EVE regions/constellations/systems?). Anyway it would be risky. While patching normal servers someone could forget to change that back and then like 90% chance for a WH in a system on TQ... Anyway, good idea, I support it, thou I doubt it will be implemented :) Never outnumbered, never outgunned

CCP Oneiromancer	Posted - 2010.01.12 11:32:00 - [25] Sorry, I skipped most of the argument going on in this thread, but I'll answer the initial questions. * Wormhole distribution on Singularity exists and is not broken. It's just different from TQ, for a number of reasons (I will not go into more detail than that). * It is not currently possible to introduce static wormholes just for the test server. * We understand that it can be frustrating and time consuming to find wormholes and we'll try to come up with a solution that is acceptable for all parties. For now, the most I can do is to put up a sticky thread where people can make requests for WH locations. We can only give you system names in a given region where there are wormholes, scanning them and finding out where they lead is up to you.

db T M. Corp Mostly Harmless	Posted - 2010.01.13 01:46:00 - [26] A while back there was very handy moveme-bot in the moveme-channel. Is it possible to get that back, and with the addition of wormhole systems?

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