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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 48 post(s) |
Udonor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2012.06.22 19:31:00 -
[1] - Quote
I predict CCP will fail at addressing the real long term problem associated with this game flaw. I believe that up to now the GOONs have not wagged the whole economy on purpose. But when a group has 10s of trillions ISK and many of its members 100s of billions ISK its daily trade manipulations and for a lark experiments can impact large areas of EVE. But those days of disinterest are over.
The problem is that CCP has failed to provide anything meaningful for very wealthy groups to spend their ISK upon -- something MEANINGFUL to an endgame for EVE (when someone can be declared winner and then a fresh player scenario started). EVE is about flying ships to WIN.
*** I suggest player groups be allowed hostile stockmarket takeovers of NPC Empire corporations. That should absorb a good deal of excess liquid capital from huge null sec groups and I think factional warfare would become much more spontaneous.****
CCP should expect that any group with 100s of trillion in excess ISK will be bored with ordinary game play. They have nothing worthwhile to do with all that cash. As i understand it most long term Goons have already paid their subscriptions ahead for years. Ship losses are meaningless. If they all decide to start a fight and log off so their enemies can claim an empty victory...they can just buy new fleets and suffer only the pain of fitting the new ships.
Very few original or current EVE players have a lot of interest in endless SIMS soap opera about who has collected the most clothes....which unfortunately seems to be where CCP thinks EVE should go. Not that a few cool uniforms might not be nice for celebrating victories. Maybe CCP needs to think of branching off a 3rd political-social game for EVE-DUST watchers that is mostly just attached to EVE (gambling on battle outcomes etc) -- instead of changing the purpose of EVE.
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Udonor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2012.06.22 19:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
Further more,
players have every right to exploit game mechanics that are merely ill-conceived. That is what games are about. This latest situation did not give one player advantage over another in combat nor even exclusive economic advantage assuming a certain minimum corp size. However, as the GOONs have continually tried to point out -- the effect of such mistakes are often cumulative such that eventually only restarting the game makes any sense. The BEST and most satisfying way to do this is to allow some group to achieve game-wide victory and declare an official winner.
*********** Despite some occasional near catastrophic errors EVE is a game with great potential loyalty. The best and only FAIR way to grow EVE is to start a new shard every 3-5 years while allowing the old shards to wind down naturally to a winner. If CCP wants to grow EVE, they should NOT to make new users deal with a long cumulative economic heritage of CCP and player mistakes. *******************
The distribution of technium moons is a specific example of bad game balance decisions which CCP cannot correct in the existing game without being unfair to someone in a major way. Nor should CCP try and take back ISK the GOONs made off this latest game design faux paus. New shards are a way of starting clean.
New shards (single universes) can basically use common evolving code for ship fighting and station game mechanics. After separating out code dealing with the location of resources and any shard specific politics and victory conditions, there would be very little difference in coding necessary.
But CCP would have a lot of room for changes in "chessbooard"/"sandbox" setup. Maybe its not so easy to fly from one empire faction space to another - fewer routes. Maybe even Empire space is mostly a series of large high sec islands. Maybe there are some small null sec pockets within some Empire regions. Maybe mineral distribution is not so uniform thus making lo sec convoys between high sec islands vital. But in any case new shards would be clear of old cumulative effects and old shards would allow true winners to emerge.
(Heh - I can see special ships that might allow boring one way courses between shard universes {EVE Gate test pilot} -- thus allowing characters and their skills to cross but no wealth except a very limited types of small cargoes. All assuming CCP continuous their extend time skill tree rather than shortening paths in it somewhat.)
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Udonor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
18
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Posted - 2012.06.22 20:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Cutter Isaacson wrote:
Did I mention insurance fraud? Or Pax Amarria? I do not believe that I did. All I said was that anyone caught knowingly abusing a flaw in the system can, and will, have that profit removed. Whether that is by putting wallets in the negative, or by removing items, such as in this case.
Provide proof. Those instances are proof that very similar situations in the past were dealt with by changing the mechanic in question, with no repercussions to the people using them to profit. Precedent is set with them. Where is your proof that those cases are wrong?
Actually CCP does take assets for true exploits of a CODING mistake. Like several years ago certain manufacturing processes weren't consuming inputs and you got outputs for free. Heh people got banned for that.
This case is only an exploit in the ethical/philosophical sense. The code did EXACTLY what CCP desired. This was a case where CCP game designers failed to fully consider the consequences of the rules they set forth. Its no different from ship fitting rules that CCP eventually had to nerf in the past. Maybe a little more dramatic than most fitting mistakes (modules, stacking etc) that give someone too much advantage.
I suspect CCP will handle this just like combats involving modules they have had to nerf in in the past. Since no coding issues were involved -- What is done is done. |
Udonor
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 21:14:00 -
[4] - Quote
Really surprised CCP took negative action on this. Must have really pushed the embarassment button.
But I agree with the GOONs action. CCP is quite arrogant in ignoring reports of exploitable conditions.
I have reported how easily market conditions and averages can be exploited for years. I have watched other do so on a few billion ISK scale. And I admit I have tested my assumptions enough to see that it worked as I expected. Wasn't foolish enough to report it or continue given that I figured someone eventually do as the GOONs did - make it so obvious and grand CCP couldn't deny it.
In the meantime it was interesting how many EVE loyalists were willing to put on blinders. You could show them how it worked. But when you pointed to other areas of the market acting oddly - they tended to say CCP is on top of anything important and anyway that area of the market is too big to manipulate on any scale. They couldn't believe anyone had or would risk 100Bs ISK to manipulate 10-50% or more changes in market -- even when its was obvious that you couldn't lose ISK unless someone opposed you and was willing to lose big ISK doing so.
Unfortunately its now apparent that CCP itself took this show of loyalty by a small but significant fraction of players as partial proof that manipulation was not occurring and therefore not possible.
*** Contributing to the ease of manipulation of the EVE market is the lack of many RL constraints and differentiations such that the only realistic way to short circuit market price manipulation is to carry sale price with each item and then only include it in market data the first time its fitted to a ship. ****
Too many other times its impossible to tell -- retail from wholesale, buy orders (more a futures/wholesale market) from sell orders (at least items exists even if its not clearly going to enduser retail rather than wholesale). And what about all that loot with effectively zero manufacture cost and less labor than mining?
And of course I love how the CCP price warning suggests to noobs that the market average is necessarily a good retail price EVE wide when this might be a region which effectively produces wholesale with few retail sales. ROFLMAO -- lots of noobs are scared to place goods at higher levels for fear its a rules violation.
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