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redstar8368
Caldari
Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:03:00 -
[1]
as we know most world militarys are always trying to improve there technology so why would it be any diffrent in eve so my question is when will the the big ship producers in eve such as the empire corporations responsible for ship development begin to retire the older ships in favour of an updated arsenal now it is know that some ships have been in service for many years decades some longer (the dominix has apparently been in use since the first caildary gallete war)so at what point do these become obsolete to the new advances in tech over just the past 6 years (no sort of t2 existed at eves launch to my knowledge)so that what is available to today's capsuler makes original tech pale in comparison.
so when does tech become obsolete
see you in space |
Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:21:00 -
[2]
I'd just be happy if the Matari would start producing some finished ships that aren't covered in rust. I mean seriously... how long are we supposed to be poor hull scavengers building ships out of parts we find in scrapyards?
I want a chrome Rifter Dammit!
And flames on the front intakes!
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MarieFrance Tessier
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:22:00 -
[3]
That is a disgusting wall of text, but the answer is simple:
Never.
Obsolifying ships and replacing them 1:1 adds obviously nothing to the game and does nothing but force people to replace their arsenal.
From a technology perspective, sure, it may be a little hokey. You can argue that moore's law hit a wall, or some sort of resource shortage stopped progress, but honestly I don't think either of those things apply here.
What it boils down to is that the notion of linear progression is very much against the spirit of EVE: there should never be a better or a worse, just a different and a niche. Some ships don't have a niche now, but CCP is working towards giving every ship a role.
Arbitrarily declaring a ship obsolete solves nothing from the perspective of fun or game balance.
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redstar8368
Caldari
Phoenix Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:38:00 -
[4]
then perhaps i was a bit blunt by obsolete but people will always want new ships to fly and theres only so many role on the battle feild that can be filled (I think the limit will be when there's a ice cream serving ship) untill the want for more meaningful content will drive ccp to move the tech envelope forward of course all the ships in eve would not become out dated overnight but there will be a point were the people of eve will want more stuff to fill there hangers and kill people in.
see you in space |
Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.02 04:10:00 -
[5]
That is a slippery slope though.
You don't want this to be like other online game where each expansion makes your last set of equipment useless because the new stuff is so much better.
People that worked hard to get what they got don't want to chase another carrot because a new line of ships just made theirs useless. And by useless I mean not being competative with the new tech. Like the new T3 cruisers can be phenomenal ships, outclassing battleship tanks, better gang link strength than commandships, cloaks, immune to bubbles etc...
Imagine if/when they have a T3 version of all ship classes, who's going to fly a Rupture into combat when you have a T3 Typhoon that rivals a capital ship?
I'm not saying they shouldn't update and improve ships and tech as they have always done, just that it is dangerous and needs to be done carefully. I don't want to see any ships become obsolete, which is why they really need to get the Assault ships ironed out and improved so they aren't outclassed by a cruiser in every way.
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Arimus Darkhart
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2010.01.02 10:45:00 -
[6]
Personally what I'd like to see, but doubt it will occur for complexity reasons:
1. You get a bpo for a base ship type.
2. As a corp or player you can research the bpo in specific directions which modify it from the base type - e.g. add better missile dmg to a raven but at the cost of reduced cap or shield etc.
3. Those modified ships are then sold as, for instance, SII Raven. The market search would need expanding so you can search on modified attributes or for a range...
No more obsolence and no more carbon copy fits, eve then becomes alot more down to personal choice - kill faster with less tank, kill slower but tank like hell etc...
--
Users are like a virus - each causing a thousand tiny crises until the host finally dies. |
Jagga Spikes
Minmatar
Tribal Liberation Force
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Posted - 2010.01.02 11:14:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: MarieFrance Tessier
That is a disgusting wall of text, but the answer is simple:
Never.
...
this
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Ezekiel Sulastin
Gallente
Shiva
Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.01.02 11:21:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Ezekiel Sulastin on 02/01/2010 11:21:16
In your little rl comparison, you forget something important: militaries continue to use things that work well at their job. Consider the USAF B-52 Stratofortess bomber. It began use in the early 1950s; the USAF is planning on keeping it operational until at least 2040. Now, it gets updated avionics, internal components, etc. but the airframe and general performance characteristics thereof will be retained for over 90 years.
It's easy to extend this to various Eve ships. The Dominix of now would bear little internal resemblance to the Dominix of 200 years ago, and technology is constantly improved in the form of various t2 ships and mods in addition to balancing tweaks made by CCP. Additionally, it's orders of magnitude easier to refit your ship to adapt to the newest shift in warfare than it would be in the real world; this, too, is technological upgrading to meet modern warfare.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.02 11:29:00 -
[9]
Originally by: redstar8368
as we know most world militarys are always trying to improve there technology so why would it be any diffrent in eve so my question is when will the the big ship producers in eve such as the empire corporations responsible for ship development begin to retire the older ships in favour of an updated arsenal now it is know that some ships have been in service for many years decades some longer (the dominix has apparently been in use since the first caildary gallete war)so at what point do these become obsolete to the new advances in tech over just the past 6 years (no sort of t2 existed at eves launch to my knowledge)so that what is available to today's capsuler makes original tech pale in comparison.
so when does tech become obsolete
The USAF is still using B52s, which are what? 50 years old?
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Grut
The Protei
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Posted - 2010.01.02 11:37:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Grut on 02/01/2010 11:37:50
The buffs / tweaks to the gameplay amount to the same thing as tech changing.
Nano, then no nano, lasers becoming FOTM, proj getting boosted, now caps getting boosted. It all amounts to the way people play the game evolving.
The medium laser 8 heatsink gankageddon while uber in its day is definatly obselete now.
Kinsy > deadman you
there?
Kinsy > are either of us in
pods, becase we dont know...
Mostly harmless
[ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought |
Hiroshima Jita
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Posted - 2010.01.02 11:59:00 -
[11]
Ships will not and should not be obsoleted.
However I would really like to see some more t1 ships. Things that don't break the bank to fly and can be reasonably used as combat ships. Its nice having a new kind of one billion isk ship to climb into and blow other people up in, but anyone who's not an idiot realizes when they do this that they've just thrown cost-effectiveness out the window.
Also there are a handful of ships that have gotten lost in EvE's evolution. While obsoleting ships is bad possibly modifying some ships to reflect how EvE is today might be a good idea.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.03 01:42:00 -
[12]
Chrome Rifter!!
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Earl Comstock
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2010.01.03 02:17:00 -
[13]
I fully endorse the idea of obsoleting ships. They don't have to be replaced with something "better", just something "different" that the fictional design heads think is "better".
The old models would never disappear entirely. Your favorite designer couldn't stop you from using your BPO, though they could certainly stop you from copying it any more, thus severely curtailing production.
That or just get things more customizable as has already been suggested. Bring T3 style (not 'power') to every ship class via something akin to subsystems.
Maybe I want rocket launchers on my cormy, or rails on my drake.
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Darthewok
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.01.03 02:46:00 -
[14]
T1 -> T2 -> T3 -> T4?
Isn't that enough of a tech progression?
Only problem is for some reason, T2 is not getting cheaper but more expensive.
So the majority stick with T1 ships and don't upgrade.
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Lance Fighter
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.01.03 03:30:00 -
[15]
really, the USAF is running hardware that is over 50 years old. The airplane you last took a plane ride in is probably around 40...
Of course, this means also that the military hardware has been around about half as long as FLIGHT HAS ITSELF.
Think about that for a moment.
OHGODS BELOW THIS LINE IS MY SIG !!!! SRSLY!
Blane Xero > Lance is at -0.9 sec status with a 1 million bounty. Lance is also amarrian. Thats 3 evil points |
Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.03 04:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lance Fighter
really, the USAF is running hardware that is over 50 years old. The airplane you last took a plane ride in is probably around 40...
Of course, this means also that the military hardware has been around about half as long as FLIGHT HAS ITSELF.
Think about that for a moment.
Our newest fighter jets have come a long way since WWI.
How long ago was that?
Some things dont change very much over the years, like the Gasoline fueled Piston engine... pretty much the same for the last 70 years. Piston engines were replaced with gas turbine engines and rocket engines which have been replaced by jet propulsion in modern military aircraft.
Guns were replaced with 20-50mm cannons, then rockets and missiles.
The fighter design went from straight bi-plane to staggered, to single. The shapes changed over and over as well.
Today's most advanced fighters are a very stark contrast from the first military aircraft. And it has all changed so dramatically over the last 101 years.
While -some- vehicles (air, and and sea) have not needed to be updated over the years, others have changed frequently as new technology becomes available. While the B-52 is still in use for some bomber roles, it too has been given other duties while newer strategic bombers have taken over such as the Stealth bomber.
Point is, Military aircraft first began in 1909 and since that time there have been numerous updates and hundreds if not thousands of aircraft have become obsolete.
Do I want to see T1 become obsolete? No. I'd rather see them get some updates here and there as they usually get every few patches in order to keep them competative. Just saying, in 100 years, things can change dramatically, it wouldn't be a stretch to see new ships introduced (which is what we have already seen with T2 -> T3)
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Tamahra
Gallente
Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2010.01.03 07:28:00 -
[17]
Originally by: MarieFrance Tessier
That is a disgusting wall of text, but the answer is simple:
Never.
Obsolifying ships and replacing them 1:1 adds obviously nothing to the game and does nothing but force people to replace their arsenal.
From a technology perspective, sure, it may be a little hokey. You can argue that moore's law hit a wall, or some sort of resource shortage stopped progress, but honestly I don't think either of those things apply here.
What it boils down to is that the notion of linear progression is very much against the spirit of EVE: there should never be a better or a worse, just a different and a niche. Some ships don't have a niche now, but CCP is working towards giving every ship a role.
Arbitrarily declaring a ship obsolete solves nothing from the perspective of fun or game balance.
this
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Sumelar
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Posted - 2010.01.03 08:54:00 -
[18]
If you think about it, a lot of stuff in the game is easily explained as being constantly upgraded by all the empires at once. No one is going to get a major technological advantage for very long in a world like this.
Everything is being upgraded all the time, but it all stays relative to each other because every empire is making the same upgrades. Your armor doesn't have a set amount of hit points in real life, theres just a threshold for damage before it fails, based on the modern weapons.
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