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Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.01.03 16:49:00 - [1] Associated Articles 111.12.29 Mining Accident in Annaro System Traps 200 Miners 112.12.30 Deep Core Mining 'Reluctant' to Commit Rescue Team, Ducia Foundry Offers Assistance 112.01.01 CBD Corporation Under Pressure to Organize Legal Mine Rescue Operation 112.01.03 Debate Over Use of Slaves in Caldari Mine Rescue Continues Response The CBD Corporation continues to delay a rescue attempt of trapped miners, while it ponders utilization of the Ducia Foundry team, who utilize slaves for surface teams. The use of slaves to rescue these men and women is unacceptable. There are several Caldari corporations outside of DCM who can assembly rescue teams and save their fellow Caldari. CBD continues to demonstrate negligence in its mining operations and should expect to expend funds to correct this negligence. If DMC is unwilling to provide its majority shareholder with a rescue team; CBD should request assistance from Minedrill and pay a premium for the service. Minedrill has fixed assets in the region (Minedrill Stations), compared to Ducia Foundry's team who is likely waiting at the border. This situation can be resolved without resorting to the use of slaves. If CBD fails to resolve the situation without ignoring Caldari tradition, it speaks to larger issues. The State's corporations are continuing to ignore their responsibilities to their employees and to each other. The Caldari Providence Directorate and the Chief Executive Panel have lost focus and are overly concerned with pursuing war to resolve internal issues and conflicts before they spiral out of control. We must work to resolve these issues to strengthen the State. CBD Corporation should quickly find other options for the rescue of the Annaro miners and address what appears to be a corporate wide problem immediately! CEO, Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Odilon Raennere	Posted - 2010.01.03 17:10:00 - [2] Originally by: Dex Nederland CBD Corporation should quickly find other options for the rescue of the Annaro miners and address what appears to be a corporate wide problem immediately! Doesn't CBD have a capsuleer division at this point? Sad affair, this whole Annaro thing. --==<<\|[\|[]\|]\|>>==--
Amilcar Makhunesta Interstellar Revolutionary Fellowship	Posted - 2010.01.03 17:34:00 - [3] Fraternal and Revolutionary Greetings! Another associated article can be found in The Volunteer on page 3 of issue no. 1. In echo of the view of our reporter 'Pisacane', I feel that the entire affair is illustrative of the callous disregard in which the Caldari Corporations hold the lives of their own workers and the way in which they indeed shrug aside all decency in Caldari values, in particular the importance we Caldari place on freedom and the repugnance with which we view the slave trade. It is not that the Megacorporations have lost focus. To the contrary, their focus is as ever on the power and wealth they seek to accrue at the expense of the life and liberty of the Caldari people, and now, horribly, at the expense of the enslaved masses of the Amarr Empire. In Solidarity, Amilcar Makhunesta Editor, The Volunteer
Jakiin	Posted - 2010.01.03 17:42:00 - [4] Edited by: Jakiin on 03/01/2010 17:45:54 Edited by: Jakiin on 03/01/2010 17:42:17 The Caldari corporations seem unable to come up with a plan that won't collapse the bloody asteroid, however it appears my fellow Believers in the Foundry are entirely capable of saving the 176 souls still trapped beneath the surface. You now have two options: Let the miners die, or allow slaves to dig them out. No other options have been presented. Do not try to make this into some smear campaign against CBD, Nederland-Haan. Gallente mannerisms do not suit you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Derena Del'thul	Posted - 2010.01.03 18:05:00 - [5] As it have been detailed in another thread on the matter, there are also capsuleer Corporations and individuals who have offered their aid to the trapped miners. Some have offered resources, others have offered highly skilled mining experts and highly trained crews at quite competitive rates. The personnel can be there in a matter of hours. Since no response have been given to these entities, I have personally concluded that there is something far deeper at stake here than the matter of slave legality in Caldari space.
Jakiin	Posted - 2010.01.03 18:09:00 - [6] There's nothing deeper than common knowledge: Aside from news articles baselines largely ignore any offers or efforts we make. This incident is no different than any other. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Eric Lancier Gallente VR Corp	Posted - 2010.01.03 18:24:00 - [7] Shouldn't the real concern just be saving the miners, politics can be discussed later.
Nauplius Amarr Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2010.01.03 19:18:00 - [8] Isn't the silence of Heth and the Caldari Providence Directorate puzzling? Aren't they the ones who should be cutting through the red tape and the lawyers and bringing in the Amarr slaves to save those ordinary Caldari workers that they are supposed to champion? I do hope the slaves are allowed in. The sight of Amarr slaves, obediently serving God and Empire while saving Caldari lives in the process might be a first step in helping the Caldari learn the truth about this often misunderstood Amarrian institution.
Akikio Lankinen Caldari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.01.03 20:06:00 - [9] This is ridiculous. There's not ONE competent rescue team in all of the State? Oh well, just hand over the key's to the city to the witch Jamyl and be done with it... Plog
Vikarion Caldari Chorus of Nephilim	Posted - 2010.01.03 20:41:00 - [10] The problem here is not a lack of competent teams. The problem is that CBD has analyzed the situation, and determined that there is a good possibility of a further (and greater) loss of life if measures are taken to retrieve the miners at this point. Ducia offers the use of slaves, because to them, the slaves are expendable. Under Caldari law, slaves are not expendable, and forced labor is illegal. However, in regards to this situation...CHORI offers 250 million ISK towards the rescue of these miners, to be distributed as a reward to any volunteers should they make the attempt. It is dangerous, yes, but hopefully such a large financial incentive will help turn up some who will be willing to brave the dangers. --- CHORI is recruiting!
Derena Del'thul	Posted - 2010.01.03 21:03:00 - [11] Like have been stated repeatedly, CCNE have a Hulk with a skilled capsuleer pilot, along with the necessary crew, standing by ready to head out to the system in question. Should the appropriate payment for the risk involved be forthcoming, negotiations for our services would commence.
Akikio Lankinen Caldari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.01.03 21:41:00 - [12] So by some magic you can sacrifice slaves to save people from mining colony? They're going to support the falling rocks with their hands? Either you have a competent team that can accomplish the task or you do not. Why would a team of slaves have a greater chance of getting people out alive? If the task is so dangerous that everybody will likely die anyway then there's no point adding to the number of casualties by sending in more people, slaves or not. If the State under Heth has changed to that point that using slaves is even considered then, as I said earlier, bend over and welcome your Amarr overlords... Plog
Mielono Caldari SWARTA	Posted - 2010.01.03 22:17:00 - [13] It is sad that lives are to be lost, but if more lives would be lost while trying to rescue them, and the chance of rescue is incredibly slim. Then the miners in the asteroid would agree that sending people to save them would be a waste of lives and resources. The offer of slaves as though they somehow are less than a normal person is odd, and I wonder why anyone would even consider using them. Their individual lives in no way mean less than the life of anyone else, so offering to send them on what amounts to a suicide mission seems... odd. I hope the corp does not take this option without a very good reason.
Hamish Grayson Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.01.03 23:51:00 - [14] Originally by: Dex Nederland CBD should request assistance from Minedrill and pay a premium for the service. Minedrill has fixed assets in the region (Minedrill Stations), compared to Ducia Foundry's team who is likely waiting at the border. I'd like to add that Minedrill are the cluster's leading specialist in this type of operation. If they can't do it without losing their rescue team, then it can't be done. ============================================ It is said the warrior's is the twofold way of pen and sword
Jakiin	Posted - 2010.01.04 00:10:00 - [15] Originally by: SCOPE news, second article linked, look it up In an unusual development, a Ducia Foundry astro-surveying team has pledged assistance and believe they can extract the miners without any loss of life. If a slave dies, it is usually termed as a 'loss of life'. Admittedly it usually involves the term 'expendable', but I highly doubt that the Foundry boys would say there would be no loss of life if they thought slaves were going to die. I do not know how, but from what it appears Ducia Foundry is able to rescue the crew with minimal risk of ground team death and the only thing stopping them is the law that slaves cannot operate within the State. Of course I can appreciate the State's deep commitment to tradition as it mirrors that of the Amarr Territories, and I'm not chastising them for making what might appear to some to be an impractical choice. I am simply pointing out that from what knowledge we are given the Foundry team is the only one that can do this to a satisfactory level. To claim conspiracy or incompetence is childish, and painting this as 'the slaves will die and so too will the miners' is incorrect. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.01.04 01:35:00 - [16] Originally by: "Eric Lancier" Shouldn't the real concern just be saving the miners, politics can be discussed later. Except politics, both internal and external, are delaying the rescue. The external politics, the issue of slaves being used in Caldari space, are the focus of the Scope and other international news media. The internal politics are being overshadowed by this. Originally by: "Jakiin" The Caldari corporations seem unable to come up with a plan that won't collapse the bloody asteroid, however it appears my fellow Believers in the Foundry are entirely capable of saving the 176 souls still trapped beneath the surface. You now have two options: Let the miners die, or allow slaves to dig them out. No other options have been presented. CBD Corporation has not approached nor been approached by any of the other megacorporations. There are internal politics at play here. Deep Core Mining Inc. is a CBD Corporation subsidiary. I mentioned Minedrill due to its proximity, but if CBD is unwilling to allow a political opponent's (Ishukone) subsidiary to do the work, perhaps CBD should look to its political ally's, Sukuuvestaa Corporation's subsidiary Poksu Mineral Group. SuVee ha not been approached nor approached. Ducia Foundry claims it can rescue the men and women trapped on the asteroid without further lose of life. CBD's own mining subsidiary disagrees. Originally by: "Jakiin" Do not try to make this into some smear campaign against CBD I am presenting my view on the matter; CBD Corporation is doing a fine job of running its own smear campaign. Originally by: "Jakiin" To claim conspiracy or incompetence is childish, and painting this as 'the slaves will die and so too will the miners' is incorrect. Ducia Foundry is an adventurous corporation, especially by Amarrian standards. To claim there is no risk displays either ignorance of the situation, incompetence, or both. As for conspiracy, the lines of that web that could be pulled upon are long. Originally by: "Nauplius" The sight of Amarr slaves, obediently serving God and Empire while saving Caldari lives in the process might be a first step in helping the Caldari learn the truth about this often misunderstood Amarrian institution. We understand it well enough. While for you and those who follow your religion it may be an important path to your enlightenment, for the Caldari it will be more akin to the slavery practiced by the Angel Cartel; without a higher purpose. And if you suggest we embrace your religion and culture you can go straight to your hell - our ancestors did not throw off the tyranny of one foreign culture for us to embrace another! CEO, Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Pulivin Motic Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.04 02:14:00 - [17] I have no doubt that if the Ammarians share this information on how to get the miners out we would have no trouble getting these brave men back to their families. But it seems like the Ammarians are withholding this information so they can make a political move of some sort.
Jakiin	Posted - 2010.01.04 02:32:00 - [18] Originally by: Dex Nederland CBD Corporation has not approached nor been approached by any of the other megacorporations. There are internal politics at play here. Or perhaps they feel the same as CBD: Originally by: Dex Nederland Ducia Foundry claims it can rescue the men and women trapped on the asteroid without further lose of life. CBD's own mining subsidiary disagrees. Which would also make sense. For whatever reason (Superior equipment, superior training, superior experience, superior labour, or indeed perhaps simple foolhardiness) Ducia does not feel the same way. Originally by: Dex Nederland Ducia Foundry is an adventurous corporation, especially by Amarrian standards. To claim there is no risk displays either ignorance of the situation, incompetence, or both. While they are known to take risks, they didn't get to be one of the largest mining companies in New Eden by miscalculating their own ability. They say they can do this thing, you say they cannot. Considering A) It is their team we're talking about and B) LDIS' not inconsiderable revenue could probably be compared to Ducia Foundry's office supply budget... I'm quite inclined to believe them. However what we think is irrelevent in the greater workings. If the State decides to value the lives of the employees highest, then we will see how well Ducia Foundry does. If the State decides to value its laws and traditions highest, then the aftermath will likely show us if there was indeed some grand conspiracy. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.01.04 02:56:00 - [19] Originally by: Jakiin However what we think is irrelevent in the greater workings. If the State decides to value the lives of the employees highest, then we will see how well Ducia Foundry does. If the State decides to value its laws and traditions highest, then the aftermath will likely show us if there was indeed some grand conspiracy. We will see if the CBD Corporation can politik a relaxing of State law and Caldari tradition with the excuse of saving its employees lives. Should CBD Corporation fail to achieve a relaxation of the law, any conspiracy will remain hidden. The status quo will remain and the conspirators will keep their mask for a future attempt. Should CBD Corporation succeed in relaxing the law, the long term consequences will be far more reaching than 200 miners and their families. CEO, Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Imiom Ravena Caldari CBD Capsuleer Division	Posted - 2010.01.04 05:43:00 - [20] Edited by: Imiom Ravena on 04/01/2010 05:45:24 I'm going to keep this short, I have no intention to start a debate. This matter will be dealt with if a suitable and safe solution can be found and put into action without carelessly violating state law. We're doing what we can, and while that may be somewhat limited, at least we're doing our best to maintain operational integrity during this trying time.
Koronakesh Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2010.01.04 05:46:00 - [21] A compromise has been put forth by a Holder to purchase and free the slave crews of Ducia's team after they conduct the rescue. Both Ducia and CBD have come out in support of this compromise, but the Annaro system police commander refuses to allow it. Must say, the thought of this man willing to let the mining crew perish due to some red tape and technicalities leaves a poor taste.
Vincent Death Hyasyoda External Security Trade and Development	Posted - 2010.01.04 14:27:00 - [22] Never compromise. If lives are lost as a result, so be it.
Sinti Vailatti Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2010.01.04 15:01:00 - [23] Wow. I've met some of the slaveminers from this company. They seemed to be very professional. Maybe they were chosen for expertise and not becaye they were expendable? Maybe because when you mine, you gotta know the rock. Ya gotta listen to what it's telling you. Slave or free, we rock herders stick together. Keep the politics out of this and let's save lives. I'm available if anyone needs a hand. Out.
Morwen Lagann Ghost Festival Naraka.	Posted - 2010.01.04 17:39:00 - [24] Originally by: Koronakesh A compromise has been put forth by a Holder to purchase and free the slave crews of Ducia's team after they conduct the rescue. Both Ducia and CBD have come out in support of this compromise, but the Annaro system police commander refuses to allow it. Must say, the thought of this man willing to let the mining crew perish due to some red tape and technicalities leaves a poor taste. Koronakesh and I rarely see eye-to-eye these days, but this is one situation where I kind of have to agree with him. There is a certain point where sticking to one's guns becomes stupid and pointless -- and the system commander has passed it. I imagine the Holder in question must have cringed quite a bit as he made the offer that he did -- he was willing to sacrifice his own ideals and principles in order to help save the lives of citizens that are from a nation that is not even his own, and this waffling by the Annaro system commander must be like someone spitting in his face. I hope that somehow the system commander will see sense before it is too late and those lives are wasted for no reason other than -- as Koronakesh so accurately put it -- "red tape and technicalities."
Jakiin	Posted - 2010.01.04 21:40:00 - [25] At this point all moral obligations have been removed: Allowing them to work will be in effect a form of freeing them. We shall see if the police commander's strict adherence to the book will be overruled by someone of higher authority. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Gottii Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.04 22:05:00 - [26] As a descendant of former slave miners, and spent a couple years in a high grav mining complex as a child, Im oddly touched that this is even a debate among the Caldari whether they should send the Amarr slave teams in. However, what Im kinda missing here is the principle upon which this whole debate rests. It cant be that the Caldari are truly anti-slavery. That wouldnt make any sense. I mean, Iskukone developed, marketed and sold technology such as the Transcranila Microcontrollers that enables, refines and supports slavery. Where was all this outrage then? As the Khanid Kingdom and the Empire's main trading partner, the State profits both directly and indirectly from economies that are based on slave labor. Where is the outrage? Its an open secret among capsuleer mercenaries who run missions for the Republic that State ships regularly support illegal Amarrian slaving operations. Doesnt seem to bother too many Caldari. By fighting with and for the Empire, the State is literally shedding its own blood to defend and expand the institution of slavery. Again, hard to say you're anti-slavery when you're fighting to defend it. Given all of the above, if the Caldari people are truly anti-slavery, they are willfully blind to what their corporate leadership has been doing for years. The States been been profiting from slavery for a long time now, even catering to it in some cases. So what exactly is the principle behind all of this? That its ok to profit from and support slavery as long as it benefits corporate share holder stock, but completely unacceptable to use slavery when it merely saves the lives of common "unmeritorious" laborers?
Andreus LeHane Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2010.01.05 01:42:00 - [27] This is, of course, an excellent example of why the Caldari should be developing Gallente space... err, no, wait a minute... -----
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.01.05 03:16:00 - [28] shakes his head Originally by: Gotti However, what Im kinda missing here is the principle upon which this whole debate rests. It cant be that the Caldari are truly anti-slavery. That wouldnt make any sense. The principle is that within the State and Caldari culture, slavery is illegal and cultural unacceptable. However we will not dictate to the Amarr (or Minmatar, Gallente, Intaki, Mannar, Jin-Mei, etc) that they must accept our cultural norms over their own. Originally by: Gotti Iskukone developed, marketed and sold technology such as the Transcranial Microcontrollers that enables, refines and supports slavery. Ishukone developed, marketed and sold Transcranial Microcontrollers. Some customers used them to enable, refine and support slavery, others used them for recreational purposes. Following your logic, the sale of holographic projection* equipment is considered supporting slavery if the Khanid holder uses it to review his estates income. Possibly built by a Minmatar worker in a Gallente factory sold through Expert Distribution (a Caldari company). Originally by:* Gotti As the Khanid Kingdom and the Empire's main trading partner, the State profits both directly and indirectly from economies that are based on slave labor. And the alternative? Be Federal puppets like the Republic? or is the Republic economy competitive with the Empire's & Federation's? Our survival as an independent nation initially relied on a strategic politic and economic alliance with the Empire, much as yours relied on a strategic politic and economic alliance with the Federation. Your same argument can be applied to the Republic. "The Republic directly and indirectly supports the subjugation of other cultures in preference to Gallente ideology, to include those ideals they disagree with." Originally by: Gotti Given all of the above, if the Caldari people are truly anti-slavery, they are willfully blind to what their corporate leadership has been doing for years. The States been been profiting from slavery for a long time now, even catering to it in some cases. We willfully profit from those who will buy our goods and services. If this means that our largest trading partner utilizes slaves, so be it, it is not our place to tell them how they must live just as it is not their place to tell us how we should live. Originally by: Gotti So what exactly is the principle behind all of this? That its ok to profit from and support slavery as long as it benefits corporate share holder stock, but completely unacceptable to use slavery when it merely saves the lives of common "unmeritorious" laborers? The law is slavery is illegal in the State. If Ducia wants to free the slaves prior to entering the State, then it immediately solves the problem. It is ok to survive and profit from those willing to trade with us. If a trader of Amarrian descendent docks in a Lai Dai station and buys goods or services and then uses those goods or services to whatever end, it is not the place of the manufacturer or saler to dictate to the consumer how they should use it. Next time you buy a ship, how would you like it if the manufacturer told you: "You can't use this ship for the transport of cows, we at Jaguar Inc are vegetarian and do not support the sale and slaughter of cows!" You would rightly tell them that you will do whatever you want with your ship. Again, the principles are: 1) Caldari tradition and State law do not support slavery. 2) Caldari culture does not seek to impose on another group its own views (be it family to family, clan to clan, tribe to tribe, corporation to corporation, nation to nation). Thus the State and Caldari people are not going to tell the Amarr what they should do within their culture or domains, so long as the Amarr do not impose the same on the Caldari. CEO, Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Dex Nederland Caldari Lai Dai Infinity Systems	Posted - 2010.01.05 03:24:00 - [29] Originally by: Andreus LeHane This is, of course, an excellent example of why the Caldari should be developing Gallente space... err, no, wait a minute... Yet CBD and its subsidiaries have stations in Federation hi-sec. Several systems in Sinq Laison are entirely developed by multiple Caldari corporations. Perhaps you should broaden your scope of education beyond action holos and actually learn something about the people you apparently hate. CEO, Lai Dai Infinity Systems
Lord Arshavir Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.05 08:11:00 - [30] Yet another example of why the Reclaiming is not merely Holy and Just, but Necessary. We offer them the Grace of God, and they choose to worship Profit. We offer them a way to save the lives of their fellows, and they refuse because they disapprove of our methods. We modify our methods to suit their reservations, and they throw it back in our faces. I would not dare to question the motivations of our Holy Empress, but I will say this: one day this alliance of convenience will be over, and on that day those Caldari who persist in their heathen defiance will be Reclaimed. _____________________________________________ Of Riches and Slaves - Adventures of an Amarrian Noble

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