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Deadmetal	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:03:00 - [1] Catchy title isn't it? and for what will follow this post more than an accurate one I think... however this still has to be kept up even though it will be unpopular with the "Ganker Group".. Gate camping in secure space... Secure space being .1 and above security. Why does CCP allow this? there has Never been an adequate explanation, other than. "that's part of the game.. live with it".. which is an unacceptable answer. Does gate camping enhance gameplay? ask anyone who's been a victum...the majority say "No"... Even for the so called campers .... thay whine about not enough targets coming through ... bla bla.. it's boring.. (but I might add it's a relatively safe form of piracy)... there is little or no skill involved in camping other than outfitting a ship properly.... Piracy is an integeral part of the game... yes I DID say Piracy is INTEGRAL to the game, I'm not trying to get CCP to stop that, just make it logical for heaven's sake. Pirates had to HUNT their targets, through trade lanes.. intel on ship movements etc... if Blackbeard ever camped a Port to get ships leaving or entering his career would have been short indeed. Also, there is little or no reprocussions for PvP gankers.. .(Corp wars are entirely different.. and sanctioned by Concord.. ). Campers make doing missions near impossible, remove the fun for many players and add nothing to the enjoyment of the game..(other than their own....). They sit.. do little or nothing and cap whoever they feel like all done at a point that others MUST cross .. when your option is 4 jumps vs 30 jumps on a mission run, how fair is it that you have to waste that much time to avoid a possible gate camp? In 0.0 space .. fine. you expect that there are no restricions... but since most lvl3 agents send you into .4 and below space your forced into a PvP situation .. whether you want to or not. CCP gives you no viable option. Again, I'm not saying Piracy is bad.. not at all.. Gate Camping is an issue... players have no recourse to avoid it other that taking a huge detour. We warp to gate already within range of the campers guns, and are dead before we can warp out.... we have no tools to determine which gate is being camped in order to avoid it once we are in a questionable system. I hope this post generates some good thoughts from all the players.. pirates and civvies alike.. although I expect the majority will be a flame but still for those of us who have fallen victim to this cheesy tactic lets hear your thoughts on ways to balance it. There must be something that can be done.. either making sentry guns work properly to negate camping when they are active....or ways to avoid camps without having to fly for hours to get around them. Something to discourage this cowardly ... lazy... and generally asinine gameplay tactic on players that want no part of it. Ah well... rant over.. suggestions welcome... even those that have "End yourself" as the primary message.... "Human Nature - If someone put a big red button in a remote mountain cave with a sign on it 'End of the world button!! Do not push!!.. the paint wouldn't have a chance to dry."
Deadmetal	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:03:00 - [2] Catchy title isn't it? and for what will follow this post more than an accurate one I think... however this still has to be kept up even though it will be unpopular with the "Ganker Group".. Gate camping in secure space... Secure space being .1 and above security. Why does CCP allow this? there has Never been an adequate explanation, other than. "that's part of the game.. live with it".. which is an unacceptable answer. Does gate camping enhance gameplay? ask anyone who's been a victum...the majority say "No"... Even for the so called campers .... thay whine about not enough targets coming through ... bla bla.. it's boring.. (but I might add it's a relatively safe form of piracy)... there is little or no skill involved in camping other than outfitting a ship properly.... Piracy is an integeral part of the game... yes I DID say Piracy is INTEGRAL to the game, I'm not trying to get CCP to stop that, just make it logical for heaven's sake. Pirates had to HUNT their targets, through trade lanes.. intel on ship movements etc... if Blackbeard ever camped a Port to get ships leaving or entering his career would have been short indeed. Also, there is little or no reprocussions for PvP gankers.. .(Corp wars are entirely different.. and sanctioned by Concord.. ). Campers make doing missions near impossible, remove the fun for many players and add nothing to the enjoyment of the game..(other than their own....). They sit.. do little or nothing and cap whoever they feel like all done at a point that others MUST cross .. when your option is 4 jumps vs 30 jumps on a mission run, how fair is it that you have to waste that much time to avoid a possible gate camp? In 0.0 space .. fine. you expect that there are no restricions... but since most lvl3 agents send you into .4 and below space your forced into a PvP situation .. whether you want to or not. CCP gives you no viable option. Again, I'm not saying Piracy is bad.. not at all.. Gate Camping is an issue... players have no recourse to avoid it other that taking a huge detour. We warp to gate already within range of the campers guns, and are dead before we can warp out.... we have no tools to determine which gate is being camped in order to avoid it once we are in a questionable system. I hope this post generates some good thoughts from all the players.. pirates and civvies alike.. although I expect the majority will be a flame but still for those of us who have fallen victim to this cheesy tactic lets hear your thoughts on ways to balance it. There must be something that can be done.. either making sentry guns work properly to negate camping when they are active....or ways to avoid camps without having to fly for hours to get around them. Something to discourage this cowardly ... lazy... and generally asinine gameplay tactic on players that want no part of it. Ah well... rant over.. suggestions welcome... even those that have "End yourself" as the primary message.... "Human Nature - If someone put a big red button in a remote mountain cave with a sign on it 'End of the world button!! Do not push!!.. the paint wouldn't have a chance to dry."
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:05:00 - [3] Paragraph a subdivision of a written composition that consists of one or more sentences, deals with one point or gives the words of one speaker, and begins on a new usually indented line LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:05:00 - [4] Paragraph a subdivision of a written composition that consists of one or more sentences, deals with one point or gives the words of one speaker, and begins on a new usually indented line LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Lynal Bother	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:10:00 - [5] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Paragraph a subdivision of a written composition that consists of one or more sentences, deals with one point or gives the words of one speaker, and begins on a new usually indented line best flame ever "Botehred" Omen (Bad Omen I-X ) (R.I.P) Maller (Unnameable I) (R.I.P) Typhoon (Red Dwarf I) (R.I.P) Tempest (Reighous Endvor) (R.IP)
Lynal Bother	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:10:00 - [6] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Paragraph a subdivision of a written composition that consists of one or more sentences, deals with one point or gives the words of one speaker, and begins on a new usually indented line best flame ever "Botehred" Omen (Bad Omen I-X ) (R.I.P) Maller (Unnameable I) (R.I.P) Typhoon (Red Dwarf I) (R.I.P) Tempest (Reighous Endvor) (R.IP)
roman	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:18:00 - [7] Edited by: roman on 19/11/2004 17:23:04 Edited by: roman on 19/11/2004 17:22:45 Edited by: roman on 19/11/2004 17:21:06 The only thing I can say, is that I'm too lazy to fly around, I fly through. To date, I've yet to be stopped by a camp, even in 0.0. Of course, saying this is like asking for trouble. There are numerous options that can get you through all but the best camps, although at least one of them will be removed in Exodus. Edit: Before you flame me, I've been on both sides of a camp. I blockade run when I don't feel like fighting. Sometimes I just don't have time to screw around. *Insert Official Disclaimer of Responsibility Here*
roman	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:18:00 - [8] Edited by: roman on 19/11/2004 17:23:04 Edited by: roman on 19/11/2004 17:22:45 Edited by: roman on 19/11/2004 17:21:06 The only thing I can say, is that I'm too lazy to fly around, I fly through. To date, I've yet to be stopped by a camp, even in 0.0. Of course, saying this is like asking for trouble. There are numerous options that can get you through all but the best camps, although at least one of them will be removed in Exodus. Edit: Before you flame me, I've been on both sides of a camp. I blockade run when I don't feel like fighting. Sometimes I just don't have time to screw around. *Insert Official Disclaimer of Responsibility Here*
Deadmetal	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Paragraph a subdivision of a written composition that consists of one or more sentences, deals with one point or gives the words of one speaker, and begins on a new usually indented line Agreed.. good flame.. even if it does neither address the content of the post nor further the negation of said unparagraphed content. However, Joshua is demonstratably far superior then the rest of us mere mortals in his ability to display his inferiority complex. "Human Nature - If someone put a big red button in a remote mountain cave with a sign on it 'End of the world button!! Do not push!!.. the paint wouldn't have a chance to dry."
Deadmetal	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:20:00 - [10] Originally by: Joshua Calvert Paragraph a subdivision of a written composition that consists of one or more sentences, deals with one point or gives the words of one speaker, and begins on a new usually indented line Agreed.. good flame.. even if it does neither address the content of the post nor further the negation of said unparagraphed content. However, Joshua is demonstratably far superior then the rest of us mere mortals in his ability to display his inferiority complex. "Human Nature - If someone put a big red button in a remote mountain cave with a sign on it 'End of the world button!! Do not push!!.. the paint wouldn't have a chance to dry."
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:23:00 - [11] Edited by: Avon on 19/11/2004 17:26:41 Well, I didn't read the whole post, but my reply is based on the assumption that it reads: People camping gates in low security space adversly effect my gameplay. Either by getting me killed, or making me take large detours. I would rather this was removed from the game, because then I could play it my way, and to hell with everyone else. If pirates did their job properly (ie, as I think they should do it) they wouldn't be hanging around at gates killing people. My reply would be: The security status of a system is indicated on a scale from 0.0 (unsecure) to 1.0 (nearly totally secure). Low security space is not safe space. You are informed that there is no Concord there to protect you, and have to agree to the risk before entering. There is no point moaning that the risk is real or unfair, you consented to it. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:23:00 - [12] Edited by: Avon on 19/11/2004 17:26:41 Well, I didn't read the whole post, but my reply is based on the assumption that it reads: People camping gates in low security space adversly effect my gameplay. Either by getting me killed, or making me take large detours. I would rather this was removed from the game, because then I could play it my way, and to hell with everyone else. If pirates did their job properly (ie, as I think they should do it) they wouldn't be hanging around at gates killing people. My reply would be: The security status of a system is indicated on a scale from 0.0 (unsecure) to 1.0 (nearly totally secure). Low security space is not safe space. You are informed that there is no Concord there to protect you, and have to agree to the risk before entering. There is no point moaning that the risk is real or unfair, you consented to it. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:23:00 - [13] Originally by: Deadmetal Originally by: Joshua Calvert Paragraph a subdivision of a written composition that consists of one or more sentences, deals with one point or gives the words of one speaker, and begins on a new usually indented line Agreed.. good flame.. even if it does neither address the content of the post nor further the negation of said unparagraphed content. However, Joshua is demonstratably far superior then the rest of us mere mortals in his ability to display his inferiority complex. I usually pay someone to tell me that Gate camping in Empire isn't much of a problem is it? I'm all over Empire and the only camp I've had bother with is the Aunenen one and that wasn't too hard to get through even in a single-10MN AB inty. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Joshua Calvert	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:23:00 - [14] Originally by: Deadmetal Originally by: Joshua Calvert Paragraph a subdivision of a written composition that consists of one or more sentences, deals with one point or gives the words of one speaker, and begins on a new usually indented line Agreed.. good flame.. even if it does neither address the content of the post nor further the negation of said unparagraphed content. However, Joshua is demonstratably far superior then the rest of us mere mortals in his ability to display his inferiority complex. I usually pay someone to tell me that Gate camping in Empire isn't much of a problem is it? I'm all over Empire and the only camp I've had bother with is the Aunenen one and that wasn't too hard to get through even in a single-10MN AB inty. LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!
Kadafu	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:34:00 - [15] The original poster's paragraph skills aside, I agree with him. Having said that, griefers' right to exist is well established by CCP, there is likely very little we can do to change their minds. I see no real point in even trying to discuss this, CCP condones the activity even to the detriment of the game.
Kadafu	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:34:00 - [16] The original poster's paragraph skills aside, I agree with him. Having said that, griefers' right to exist is well established by CCP, there is likely very little we can do to change their minds. I see no real point in even trying to discuss this, CCP condones the activity even to the detriment of the game.
Phoenixgurl	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:47:00 - [17] I do not agree with the poster. Sometimes, EC-P8R is camped by Armored assassins... yes its a mess.. and a pain. However, when we camp B-VIP from attacking BoB forces, this is legitimate. How do you expect us to stop a full fleet? Since there's nothing "mid warp", you have eighter to be at the "from" gate, or at the "to" gate. Whatever you choose, guerilla tactics only works for slow ships left behind. Most fleets move in groups, just in groups in ennemy territory. Whitout campers, alliances would be nothing. Sometimes, camping is even better. Nobody looses ships because no one want to jump in.. thus the "blob" tactic. -------------------------- When the universe collapses and dies, there will be 3 survivors: Tyr Anasazi, the cocroaches ... and Dylan Hunt trying to save the cocroaches. --Tyr (Andromeda)
Phoenixgurl	Posted - 2004.11.19 17:47:00 - [18] I do not agree with the poster. Sometimes, EC-P8R is camped by Armored assassins... yes its a mess.. and a pain. However, when we camp B-VIP from attacking BoB forces, this is legitimate. How do you expect us to stop a full fleet? Since there's nothing "mid warp", you have eighter to be at the "from" gate, or at the "to" gate. Whatever you choose, guerilla tactics only works for slow ships left behind. Most fleets move in groups, just in groups in ennemy territory. Whitout campers, alliances would be nothing. Sometimes, camping is even better. Nobody looses ships because no one want to jump in.. thus the "blob" tactic. -------------------------- When the universe collapses and dies, there will be 3 survivors: Tyr Anasazi, the cocroaches ... and Dylan Hunt trying to save the cocroaches. --Tyr (Andromeda)
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:07:00 - [19] Edited by: Avon on 19/11/2004 18:10:31 Originally by: Kadafu The original poster's paragraph skills aside, I agree with him. Having said that, griefers' right to exist is well established by CCP, there is likely very little we can do to change their minds. I see no real point in even trying to discuss this, CCP condones the activity even to the detriment of the game. These people do not cause you grief. You inability to accept any personal resposibilty for you actions, for you choice to enter these systems, is what causes you grief. People camping gates in low sec space is not to the detriment of the the game, it is just something you don't want to have to deal with. The griefers here are the people who moan about being killed, simply because they can't come to terms with the fact their death was due to their own actions. If you don't want to die to a lowsec gate gank, stay in the areas where CCP already gave you uber game mechanic defences. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:07:00 - [20] Edited by: Avon on 19/11/2004 18:10:31 Originally by: Kadafu The original poster's paragraph skills aside, I agree with him. Having said that, griefers' right to exist is well established by CCP, there is likely very little we can do to change their minds. I see no real point in even trying to discuss this, CCP condones the activity even to the detriment of the game. These people do not cause you grief. You inability to accept any personal resposibilty for you actions, for you choice to enter these systems, is what causes you grief. People camping gates in low sec space is not to the detriment of the the game, it is just something you don't want to have to deal with. The griefers here are the people who moan about being killed, simply because they can't come to terms with the fact their death was due to their own actions. If you don't want to die to a lowsec gate gank, stay in the areas where CCP already gave you uber game mechanic defences. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Zhuge Liang	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:07:00 - [21] Title changed. Please don't rant and especially don't encourage people to flame. ZhuuÀ gheyÀleeÀyan (Kongming)
Zhuge Liang	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:07:00 - [22] Title changed. Please don't rant and especially don't encourage people to flame. ZhuuÀ gheyÀleeÀyan (Kongming)
Alpha Dangerous	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:09:00 - [23] I'm not the sharpest stick in the pile but I really do like the way my adrenaline starts pumping when I decide to fly around in low sec space by myself, even if there is hardly ever anybody else there. I'm a newb so I couldn't even put up much of a fight if somebody decided to bite down on me. I also wouldn't lose much if they did heh. But I really do appreciate the extra dimension it adds to the game (I liked it in old UO and Shadowbane too). And it gives me one of the good reasons to make some friends instead of just running around by myself all the time. And the buddies that stand beside you in a pvp game just always seemed way the heck better to me than the "aquaintances" you meet in a pve game, y'know? The bonds are way stronger or something. I guess the enemies are way worse too though heh. Well, whatever, it feels realer to me, at least.
Alpha Dangerous	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:09:00 - [24] I'm not the sharpest stick in the pile but I really do like the way my adrenaline starts pumping when I decide to fly around in low sec space by myself, even if there is hardly ever anybody else there. I'm a newb so I couldn't even put up much of a fight if somebody decided to bite down on me. I also wouldn't lose much if they did heh. But I really do appreciate the extra dimension it adds to the game (I liked it in old UO and Shadowbane too). And it gives me one of the good reasons to make some friends instead of just running around by myself all the time. And the buddies that stand beside you in a pvp game just always seemed way the heck better to me than the "aquaintances" you meet in a pve game, y'know? The bonds are way stronger or something. I guess the enemies are way worse too though heh. Well, whatever, it feels realer to me, at least.
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:45:00 - [25] Quote: You inability to accept any personal resposibilty for you actions, for you choice to enter these systems, is what causes you grief. When gate campers do not allow me to run agent missions, I usually just log off and play something else... Not sure if that's what CCP wants, but that's the way it is... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Bhaal	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:45:00 - [26] Quote: You inability to accept any personal resposibilty for you actions, for you choice to enter these systems, is what causes you grief. When gate campers do not allow me to run agent missions, I usually just log off and play something else... Not sure if that's what CCP wants, but that's the way it is... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Wild Rho	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:47:00 - [27] I'm still amazed at how many ppl think it's the devs job to make them feel safe rather than deal with the problems themselves. Belt hunting rarely works (alot of time and effort compared to next to zero results) and ransoming is no longer an option so they go for the quick kill at the places people have to go to. If you don't like it get a force and move them. If they run, so what, you beat them off. It may not be the massacre you wanted you you have still won. If they don't like the fact you blobbed them, again that's tough for them. Keep doing it and sooner or later most pirates move on to better hunting grounds. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Wild Rho	Posted - 2004.11.19 18:47:00 - [28] I'm still amazed at how many ppl think it's the devs job to make them feel safe rather than deal with the problems themselves. Belt hunting rarely works (alot of time and effort compared to next to zero results) and ransoming is no longer an option so they go for the quick kill at the places people have to go to. If you don't like it get a force and move them. If they run, so what, you beat them off. It may not be the massacre you wanted you you have still won. If they don't like the fact you blobbed them, again that's tough for them. Keep doing it and sooner or later most pirates move on to better hunting grounds. I have the body of a supermodel. I just can't remember where I left it...
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2004.11.19 19:12:00 - [29] Its the developers job to keep the greater majority of players entertained for 15 dollars a month. [not feel safe] Some people might think playing "dodge the nail gun" is entertaining. And you might even be able to sucker me into thinking its entertaining right up until the nail gun hit me. Then qutsemnie would be in the "dodge the nail gun" game is not so fun camp. And your 15 dollars a month charge for having me play the dodge the nail gun game might be in question. So yes by all means play dodge the nail gun if you want. However I like alot of eves other games besides dodge the nail gun. Thats where the developers come in. They get to go: hmm is there something this guy can do in eve besides play dodge the nail gun.[this is where a pvp'r says ya log in to make me nails and nail guns then log out groan]
Qutsemnie	Posted - 2004.11.19 19:12:00 - [30] Its the developers job to keep the greater majority of players entertained for 15 dollars a month. [not feel safe] Some people might think playing "dodge the nail gun" is entertaining. And you might even be able to sucker me into thinking its entertaining right up until the nail gun hit me. Then qutsemnie would be in the "dodge the nail gun" game is not so fun camp. And your 15 dollars a month charge for having me play the dodge the nail gun game might be in question. So yes by all means play dodge the nail gun if you want. However I like alot of eves other games besides dodge the nail gun. Thats where the developers come in. They get to go: hmm is there something this guy can do in eve besides play dodge the nail gun.[this is where a pvp'r says ya log in to make me nails and nail guns then log out groan]

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