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Tengu for level 4 missions?

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Kaylee Juuna	Posted - 2010.01.05 04:30:00 - [1] Edited by: Kaylee Juuna on 05/01/2010 04:48:38 I need 5 hours to train for a Raven, and I'm tired of running level 4s in a Drake. I've been flying a Drake for a few months now, so my shield and missile skills are fairly high. Anything else I should know before flying a Raven? Any specific skills I should have, modules, etc?
OldWolfe The Last of the Renshai	Posted - 2010.01.05 04:51:00 - [2] Yep, armor tank the hell out of the Raven.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.05 05:23:00 - [3] Originally by: Kaylee Juuna I've been flying a Drake for a few months now, so my shield and missile skills are fairly high. Anything else I should know before flying a Raven? Any specific skills I should have, modules, etc? Well, the only thing worth mentioning there is that's a terrible Raven fit. Then again, most things on battleclinic are terrible, so that's not new. Quote: Edit 2: Even with BS 3 and Cruis Mis 3, it still only spits out 392 damage. What can I do to make this work? I'd start by getting a decent fit and training BS4/Cruise 4. Setting All 5s in EFT to Cruise 3 / BS 3 / 4 BCU IIs yields 332 DPS (no drones) - so I'm going to use that as the template for the rest of the discussion. - CN Cruise Launchers => 381 DPS - CN Cruise + Faction Missiles => 438 DPS - CN Cruise + Faction Missiles + 4 CN BCUs => 467 DPS - 3x Rigor Is and a TP will let you apply your DPS to cruisers too :) -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Mei Tschar	Posted - 2010.01.05 05:49:00 - [4] use the drake while you skill the raven a little bit more. drake will be much more efficent at the beginning. and dont fit a ship by your skills.. train for the fitting!
Kaylee Juuna	Posted - 2010.01.05 06:27:00 - [5] Edited by: Kaylee Juuna on 05/01/2010 06:27:11 Thanks Liang. Based on that advice, I have this fit: [Raven, Faction Fit Level 4] 4x Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Capacitor Flux Coil II 2x Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II X-Large Shield Booster II Target Painter II 6x Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Wrath Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam 3x Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Hobgoblin II x5 Hammerhead II x5 Changed BCS IIs to Caldari Navy, added one. Removed the boost amplifiers, added a target painter. Changed Arbalest launchers to Caldari Navy. New DPS (with my skills: BS 0 and Cruise 0) 421 vs 319 old. New tank (against Guristas) 655 vs 1124 (lolwat). With a few days of training (BS 4 and Cruise 4) it'll spit out 574 damage, at a 156m explosion radius. A hell of a lot more expensive, but it doesn't have a loltank and it'll be able to go through missions like a Minmatar pilot through duct tape.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.05 06:40:00 - [6] Allow me to post The Fit: [Raven, My Mission Raven] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Signal Amplifier II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II Target Painter II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Devastator Fury Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Salvager II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 This is the direction you want to take your Raven. Most of these modules will transfer directly to your CNR: [Raven Navy Issue, Mission CNR] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Signal Amplifier II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Target Painter II Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Cruise Missile Launcher II, Wrath Fury Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Warrior II x5 Bouncer II x3 For now, you can should use Arbalests or CN Cruise launchers in place of T2. The cap boosted setup is a huge win because it makes sure you aren't going to lose the ship, and once you get decent at handling aggro makes sure that you don't waste too many slots on needless cap regeneration. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Kaylee Juuna	Posted - 2010.01.06 01:20:00 - [7] Eleven days to be able to use all the modules (not including T2 launchers). Awesome, thanks for the help, Liang!
Qwert0	Posted - 2010.01.06 04:26:00 - [8] Something to note about Liang's fit is that the Dread Guristas booster is identical to the Caldari Navy one in every way, and last I checked was 10M cheaper
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.06 04:36:00 - [9] Originally by: Qwert0 Something to note about Liang's fit is that the Dread Guristas booster is identical to the Caldari Navy one in every way, and last I checked was 10M cheaper Prices vary - sometimes one or the other is cheaper. The CN one is always available though. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Artoxis Lugh	Posted - 2010.01.06 10:40:00 - [10] One thing I've never been able to figure out. Why go for the CN Cruise Launcher other than skill requirements? If you take the time to hit Cruise Missiles V and then train Cruise Missile Spec, you can use Fury ammo plus the Cruise Launcher II gets a rate of fire bonus per each Cruise Missile Spec level. Will this not give more DPS and a cheaper fit once you train up?

Theac Osiris	Posted - 2010.01.06 18:01:00 - [11] Edited by: Theac Osiris on 06/01/2010 18:01:51 Originally by: Artoxis Lugh One thing I've never been able to figure out. Why go for the CN Cruise Launcher other than skill requirements? If you take the time to hit Cruise Missiles V and then train Cruise Missile Spec, you can use Fury ammo plus the Cruise Launcher II gets a rate of fire bonus per each Cruise Missile Spec level. Will this not give more DPS and a cheaper fit once you train up? Because Cruise Missiles V takes a while to train, CN launchers are much easier to fit than T2, and CN launchers have a higher RoF and missile capacity, improving DPS when using T1/faction ammo. The only two advantages of T2 launchers are cost and the ability to fire Fury. Perhaps when the OP has trained for T2 launchers, it'd be a viable option, but CN launchers are just easier. Plus, you need a lot of faction gear to get T2 launchers to fit CPU-wise (as contrasted with Arbalest launchers). You need the faction BCSs, faction shield booster, and Launcher Rigging IV to fit Liang's fit with T2 launchers, and honestly I'd shy away from putting that much faction gear on a T1 battleship.
Nemori Sanstari	Posted - 2010.01.06 18:33:00 - [12] Wow, thanks Liang. I've been using a permaboost/high cap recharge Raven for a while now, and never realized how many slots I was wasting when all I needed was a booster. Thanks for opening my eyes
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.06 19:30:00 - [13] Originally by: Nemori Sanstari Wow, thanks Liang. I've been using a permaboost/high cap recharge Raven for a while now, and never realized how many slots I was wasting when all I needed was a booster. Thanks for opening my eyes You may find that cap booster 800 charges are unpopular in your mission area (they are plentiful drops in Amarr space though). To get around this, I bought the BPO (it's cheap) and researched it, and make my own charges from reprocessed mission loot. I do recommend Production Efficiency 4 or 5 if you go this route. It is much easier to move the BPO around as needed rather than a bunch of charges.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.06 19:34:00 - [14] Originally by: Tau Cabalander Originally by: Nemori Sanstari Wow, thanks Liang. I've been using a permaboost/high cap recharge Raven for a while now, and never realized how many slots I was wasting when all I needed was a booster. Thanks for opening my eyes You may find that cap booster 800 charges are unpopular in your mission area (they are plentiful drops in Amarr space though). To get around this, I bought the BPO (it's cheap) and researched it, and make my own charges from reprocessed mission loot. I do recommend Production Efficiency 4 or 5 if you go this route. It is much easier to move the BPO around as needed rather than a bunch of charges. TTTTHHHHIIISSSSSS. Even without prod efficiency 5 or a researched bpo, you can make a thousand cap boosters and not even notice the mineral loss.... and those cap boosters will last you a while at even 15 cap boosters/mission (which is way more than you'll actually use). -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Pantload Gallente The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.01.06 20:49:00 - [15] I swear to god I'm starting a Liang Nuren fan club. I nominate me for president of the club TUG: The Underpants Gnomes. Buy corporations here
Akuma Tsukai Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.06 20:50:00 - [16] lol Liang u gave me the light here. The ONLY reason i never used cap boosters is the need to buy charges but somehow i never thought of making them bangs his head against the wall. Goodbye horrible cap stable mission fits ---- Drones eat everything. Trust me.
Agent Known	Posted - 2010.01.06 22:00:00 - [17] I guess my shield skills need some work then...I have a permaboosted XL setup, and it still cannot tank with my dual LAR domi can... It took me two hours to do one section of Worlds Collide last night. Something tells me I'm doing something wrong. On another note, I also have an annoying sig. inaftertimeflux
Pantload Gallente The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.01.06 22:12:00 - [18] Edited by: Pantload on 06/01/2010 22:13:43 Originally by: Agent Known I guess my shield skills need some work then...I have a permaboosted XL setup, and it still cannot tank with my dual LAR domi can... It took me two hours to do one section of Worlds Collide last night. Something tells me I'm doing something wrong. A tank consisting of XL booster + boost amp + 3x hardener is equal to or superior to a tank consisting of 2x LAR + 3x hardener. Spending a couple hours on WC is not out of the question depending on tactics, your ship's DPS output, whether you do both sides of the mission, and whether you loot/salvage. On the flipside of that, a good CNR fit w/ a skilled pilot should not spend more than like 30 mins on that mission. PL edit spelling TUG: The Underpants Gnomes. Buy corporations here
Agent Known	Posted - 2010.01.06 22:37:00 - [19] Originally by: Pantload Edited by: Pantload on 06/01/2010 22:13:43 Originally by: Agent Known I guess my shield skills need some work then...I have a permaboosted XL setup, and it still cannot tank with my dual LAR domi can... It took me two hours to do one section of Worlds Collide last night. Something tells me I'm doing something wrong. A tank consisting of XL booster + boost amp + 3x hardener is equal to or superior to a tank consisting of 2x LAR + 3x hardener. Spending a couple hours on WC is not out of the question depending on tactics, your ship's DPS output, whether you do both sides of the mission, and whether you loot/salvage. On the flipside of that, a good CNR fit w/ a skilled pilot should not spend more than like 30 mins on that mission. PL edit spelling Strange...I had that setup and it couldn't tank the 2nd room. I had to warp out and bring in the Domi to finish it. Maybe it's because Sansha shoot EM and I have a lower resist even with hardeners? On another note, I also have an annoying sig. inaftertimeflux
TwiggyHazz	Posted - 2010.01.07 00:15:00 - [20] Originally by: Agent Known Originally by: Pantload Edited by: Pantload on 06/01/2010 22:13:43 Originally by: Agent Known I guess my shield skills need some work then...I have a permaboosted XL setup, and it still cannot tank with my dual LAR domi can... It took me two hours to do one section of Worlds Collide last night. Something tells me I'm doing something wrong. A tank consisting of XL booster + boost amp + 3x hardener is equal to or superior to a tank consisting of 2x LAR + 3x hardener. Spending a couple hours on WC is not out of the question depending on tactics, your ship's DPS output, whether you do both sides of the mission, and whether you loot/salvage. On the flipside of that, a good CNR fit w/ a skilled pilot should not spend more than like 30 mins on that mission. PL edit spelling Strange...I had that setup and it couldn't tank the 2nd room. I had to warp out and bring in the Domi to finish it. Maybe it's because Sansha shoot EM and I have a lower resist even with hardeners? Probably because you didn't deal with the aggro correctly? If not then you have to have done somthing seriously wrong with your resists...

Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.01.07 04:03:00 - [21] Here is a fit I've been using for awhile now. [Raven Navy Issue, Boomshakalaka] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Capacitor Flux Coil II Caldari Navy Shield Boost Amplifier Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Caldari Navy Heat Dissipation Amplifier Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Amplifier Caldari Navy Kinetic Deflection Amplifier Phased Weapon Navigation Array Generation Extron Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Caldari Navy Cruise Missile Launcher, Wrath Cruise Missile Small Tractor Beam I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst II Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Large Warhead Rigor Catalyst I Hammerhead II x5 I was running the same fit with 3 CCCs before, but after hearing Liang go off so much about how much better the rigors were, I gave them a try. I swapped my shield amp for the cap booster, and threw the rigors in. LOVED IT! Huge improvement over the CCCs. However, I found I didn't need the cap booster, so I threw the shield boost amp back in. To make it work, you really need the Xdamage shield compensation skills up to IV or V, or else the passive resistance amps don't really do much. Yes, the fit costs a lot, but mission runners make a lot. You can fit the T2 launchers in to save isk if you have the skills, but the CN will always do more damage with T1 ammo and I'm not the type to blow my isk on T2 ammo for my missions. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Dandrenn	Posted - 2010.01.07 07:27:00 - [22] I just started running level 4's and have no idea how you guys have the cash to fit ships that cost that much. Maybe i'm just doing them wrong but it seems like you'd have to play for weeks if not months to get the cash for a fully fitted caldari navy setup
Agent Known	Posted - 2010.01.07 07:44:00 - [23] [Raven, Injected - Kin/Therm] Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Heat Dissipation Field II X-Large C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Cap Booster 800 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I, Paradise Cruise Missile Drone Link Augmentor I Salvager I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Large Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5 Hobgoblin II x5 I"m using this fit now. It works wonderfully...much better than any "cap stable" fit. I only kept the CCCs because of their 20mil each price tag, and it helps with my recharge anyway. The fit shown can take a whopping 1,462 dps with my semi-average skills (3s and 4s). You can overheat if you get into trouble and need to warp off. I use a basic strategy to manage my tank: pulse booster when shields dip below 75%, and pulse it again if my cap is above the 50% mark. I then just pulse it each time my cap recharges to around 50% (which is pretty often with the CCCs). If I need more tank then that, I pop a booster when my cap goes below 30% or so. Works pretty well, and using a container (medium) you can hold 20 cap boosters (12 in container, 4 in cargo, 4 in booster) + >2000 cruise missiles. On another note, I also have an annoying sig. inaftertimeflux
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.01.07 18:21:00 - [24] Originally by: Dandrenn I just started running level 4's and have no idea how you guys have the cash to fit ships that cost that much. Maybe i'm just doing them wrong but it seems like you'd have to play for weeks if not months to get the cash for a fully fitted caldari navy setup If you just started, you probably aren't making isk very fast. Get your dps skills up and you will be pushing 30M/hour in bounties alone. Throw in loot, salvage, and LP conversions and you will have lots of cash. I just sold off a loot build up my salvage alt had, and made 800 million isk.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.07 18:46:00 - [25] Here's some tips to maximize my ISK/hr: - Make sure that you are not overtanked too much. Replacing tank mods for more damage (actual or effective) increases your ISK/hr as long as you don't have to warp out or pay repair bills. - Use the fitting saver to quickly switch between fits for various missions. I find it really helps to have "generic Kin/Thm fit" and "The Score" (special missions with special considerations). You'll still have to fix your missiles, cargo bay, and drone bay though - so the win is only marginal (but existent) - Accept more than one mission at a time so that you don't have to dock between missions (except possibly to drop off loot/salvage or pick up more missiles/cap boosters). This can be accomplished with alts or by finding a station/system with a good number of high quality L4 agents - Only loot/salvage battleships or anything that's convenient. With salvage prices so low, it's almost worthwhile to run 2 tractors on your Raven. BS sized T1 (meta 0) ABs and guns usually sell for a decent price in market hubs - and are worth selling unless you have really good reprocessing skills/standings and a use for the minerals. - Decline crappy missions, like those that send you far away, don't have bounties (cough-drones-cough), have low LP payouts, or are against empire factions. - Make sure that you use your drones. They really make a difference in your mission times. - If you're flying a turret ship, organize your overview by transversal, and prefer shooting cruisers (frigs are just drone food). - The longer you let your loot build up, the more ISK/hr you make (since there's less administration cost). - There are apps (EveHQ IIRC) that can tell you the market value of everything in your hanger - you can use this to easily separate out your hanger into "refinables" and "sellables". - You can buy BPO/BPCs and build crap - like ammo (to keep your costs down) or battleships (for selling/PVP). - Make sure that you calculate your LP conversion rate before buying modules off the LP store! Generally blueprints generally yield good rates. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Limdood	Posted - 2010.01.07 20:04:00 - [26] i find the 4th BCS is usually wasted. The Raven i fly is fitted to try and avoid stacking penalties whenever i can: High: 6xCruise Missile Launcher (whatever meta level or tier you can use/afford) 1xtractor beam 1xDrone Link Augmentor (I have a salvaging alt and i hate the NPC BSs that orbit at 46+km) Mid slots: 2xPrimary rat damage shield hardener II 1xSecondary rat damage shield hardener II 1xMeta-4 X-Large Shield Booster 1xShield boost amplifier 1xCap recharger II (rather run my booster longer and have to wait less time between running it again than face the stacking penalties on another shield boost amplifier) Low slots: 3xBallistic Control Unit II 1xReactor Control Unit II (a mod that boosts capacitor without any penalties - seems to have more impact for me than flux coils) 1xDamage Control II (shield resists, even small ones, in the low slots seem better to me that aANOTHER BCU (at about 25% effectiveness since it is the 4th stacked mod) Rigs: 2xCapacitor Control Circuit 1Warhead Calefaction Catalyst or another CCC Drones: 5x Hammerhead IIs 5x Hobgoblin IIs I find that this fit works quite well in missions, and was built to try to pull the most out of each slot available on the Raven.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.01.07 21:03:00 - [27] Originally by: Limdood i find the 4th BCS is usually wasted. The Raven i fly is fitted to try and avoid stacking penalties whenever i can <snip> So instead of extra dps which would increase your isk/hour, you increase your tank which you don't really need since 3 hardeners + SB + amp are more than capable of handling. Yes, the 4th BCS is severely penalized. But it is added dps just the same. If you don't need more tank, its better to fit for more damage. More dps increases your isk/hour, more tank doesn't. BTW, the RCU only increases powergrid, not capacitor. I'm going to assume you meant a PDU, which the Flux Coils beat out anyway. You won't see much benefit in EFT, but if you experiment with both in game you will find that since the flux coils increase your cap regen so much faster than a PDU. The end result is you don't have to wait very long between shield boosts. Try it out, they aren't expensive, and you don't have to stick with it if you don't like it. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Pantload Gallente The Underpants Gnomes Deep Space Engineering	Posted - 2010.01.07 21:21:00 - [28] Originally by: Limdood i find the 4th BCS is usually wasted. The Raven i fly is fitted to try and avoid stacking penalties whenever i can: High: 6xCruise Missile Launcher (whatever meta level or tier you can use/afford) 1xtractor beam 1xDrone Link Augmentor (I have a salvaging alt and i hate the NPC BSs that orbit at 46+km) Mid slots: 2xPrimary rat damage shield hardener II 1xSecondary rat damage shield hardener II 1xMeta-4 X-Large Shield Booster 1xShield boost amplifier 1xCap recharger II (rather run my booster longer and have to wait less time between running it again than face the stacking penalties on another shield boost amplifier) Low slots: 3xBallistic Control Unit II 1xReactor Control Unit II (a mod that boosts capacitor without any penalties - seems to have more impact for me than flux coils) 1xDamage Control II (shield resists, even small ones, in the low slots seem better to me that aANOTHER BCU (at about 25% effectiveness since it is the 4th stacked mod) Rigs: 2xCapacitor Control Circuit 1Warhead Calefaction Catalyst or another CCC Drones: 5x Hammerhead IIs 5x Hobgoblin IIs I find that this fit works quite well in missions, and was built to try to pull the most out of each slot available on the Raven. There is so much wrong with this I wouldn't even know where to begin. Please don't tell other players to use this fitting. It's just tacky and they won't thank you. A quick question: You think a 4th BCS is a waste and you have suggested the Warhead Calefaction?! My head hurts now. TUG: The Underpants Gnomes. Buy corporations here
Destroperuk Auctoritas Fleet Auctoritas Empire	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:10:00 - [29] Edited by: Destroperuk on 08/01/2010 00:10:04 Originally by: Limdood 1xReactor Control Unit II (a mod that boosts capacitor without any penalties - seems to have more impact for me than flux coils) I don't really know what to say about this.


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