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[TRADE] One Thousand to One

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Lucius Vindictus Amarr Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2010.01.08 23:31:00 - [91] Originally by: Becq Starforged you can reduce criticisms of your methods... Havohej doesn't care about critics. At least he is fully honest and doesn't try to mask his methods with pretty words. I prefer an extremist over a hypocrite any day. It makes sorting out who is friend or foe that much easier. In only a few days we've seen over thirty thousand slaves used as human shields in a POS defense, ten thousand slaves thrown from an airlock for the sake of... well, I'm not even fully sure why; each instance accompanied by text walls trying in vain to mask the stink that accompanies large scale attempted genocide. This massacre is refreshingly honest and will be added to the statistics as casualties of the youngest instance of capsuleer God-complex. No true Amarrian will negotiate for the release of even a single one of these prisoners. Our Empire wasn't built by weaklings who would yield and abandon all our conventions under threats like these, and it sickens me that I see 'Amarrians' insulting our ancestors by attempting to appease a terrorist.
Havohej Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2010.01.08 23:38:00 - [92] Originally by: Gemma Naquist Edited by: Gemma Naquist on 08/01/2010 23:01:05 Open channel: A thousand, a million, a billion. You have done NOTHING to end slavery. NOTHING. We set out to free one million Minmatars from slavery in the Empire. We did wound up freeing over 1.1 million and have received word that 6,000 more are going to be released in Rens this very day by an interested party who went to the trouble of smuggling them past the border pickets set up by Republic Customs themself - admirable display of initiative on their part, by the way. They've already commented here on the IGS, so if they wish their name to be known I leave it up to them to reveal themself. Originally by: Gemma Naquist All you've done is pay a transaction tax that will go to insure the continued economic strength of the Empire. We were not charged a "transaction tax" by the Angel Cartel representatives we dealt with. We were charged the ISK value of one thousand Amarrian slaves and a reasonable transportation fee of 15 million ISK to cover the costs and risks of moving same from Curse to Empire space. Originally by: Gemma Naquist Do you see now how futile it all is? We freed more Minmatars than we set out to. We expected it to take place over the course of months, possibly even years, and we achieved our goal within 48 hours. No. We do not see how futile it all is. Du'uma Fiisi is Recruiting
Darina Rea Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine	Posted - 2010.01.09 00:44:00 - [93] Originally by: Havohej Not a single one of the 1.1 million Minmatars in our care are slaves. If you are labelling me for the purchase of 1,000 Amarrians... so be it. Good one. Hadn't thought of that one. Ok. Add it. You've traded people for money, people for people, people with death threats. Whatever. You're an Amarrian slaver. _________ _________ Time is on our side.
Cadirro DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.01.09 01:02:00 - [94] Edited by: Cadirro on 09/01/2010 01:02:53 Originally by: Darina Rea You're an Amarrian slaver. tries to suppress a grin, but fails epicly Obviously. But back to topic - I was certain this would end in a bloodbath, but I was wrong - And now that I see over one million slaves freed, I cannot and will not condemn DFIAS for anything but their recklessness. --- Star Fraction Public - Follow us on YouTube!
Tomahawk Bliss Minmatar DAEDALUS X The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.01.09 01:37:00 - [95] Recklessness is sexy
Jesmine Kyriel Amarr House Kyriel Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.09 06:47:00 - [96] Originally by: Lucius Vindictus No true Amarrian will negotiate for the release of even a single one of these prisoners. Our Empire wasn't built by weaklings who would yield and abandon all our conventions under threats like these, and it sickens me that I see 'Amarrians' insulting our ancestors by attempting to appease a terrorist. So by your words, every TRUE Amarrian would gladly sit by and watch as citizens of the Empire were tortured, mentally and physically, and killed, over the course of years? Where I am from, we care for our common people as much we do our slaves and our traditions and values. This terrorist asked a million slaves be prematurely released from their path to god, and be transported out of the Empire's embrace. If we did not, he would start murdring our own people as punishment. Yes, his method is despicable, cowardly and honourless, but the terms were easily overcome, if one has a wallet deep enough. _________________________ Reformist holder, loyal to House and Empire. Long live the Empire.
Lucius Vindictus Amarr Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2010.01.09 08:40:00 - [97] Originally by: Jesmine KyrielSo by your words, every TRUE Amarrian would gladly sit by and watch as citizens of the Empire were tortured, mentally and physically, and killed, over the course of years? Where I am from, we care for our common people as much we do our slaves and our traditions and values. This terrorist asked a million slaves be prematurely released from their path to god, and be transported out of the Empire's embrace. If we did not, he would start murdring our own people as punishment. Yes, his method is despicable, cowardly and honourless, but the terms were easily overcome, if one has a wallet deep enough.[/quote Bah! Since when is slavery about wallets and pocket money? Since when is being Amarr about compromising our traditions and detracting from our own faith just to win popularity contests? What is the point in owning slaves in the first place when it is OK for them to be so casually released? If you really care for them as you say you do, why is their enlightenment worth nothing to you? By handing this terrorist a MILLION slaves we exceeded his wildest dreams. Apparently all it takes to outsmart the Amarrian capsuleer community is to place a wanted add on the IGS. His next plot will be even more bold than the last, and by having shown such despicable weakness he will only be encouraged more! Lucius Vindictus spits and closes the connection and turns away in disgust.
Jesmine Kyriel Amarr House Kyriel Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.09 11:18:00 - [98] Originally by: Lucius Vindictus Bah! Since when is slavery about wallets and pocket money? Since when is being Amarr about compromising our traditions and detracting from our own faith just to win popularity contests? What is the point in owning slaves in the first place when it is OK for them to be so casually released? If you really care for them as you say you do, why is their enlightenment worth nothing to you? By handing this terrorist a MILLION slaves we exceeded his wildest dreams. Apparently all it takes to outsmart the Amarrian capsuleer community is to place a wanted add on the IGS. His next plot will be even more bold than the last, and by having shown such despicable weakness he will only be encouraged more! Standard market prize for slaves is 705 isk per head. 705 million isk is not pocket money. Also, scripture decrees slaves are to be enlightened through working for the Empire, yes, but scripture also states the Amarr are God's chosen, and allready enlightened. This makes any free citizen vastly more valuable than a slave, and the slave's full value only emerges when a slave is both freed and a true faitful. I don't see any compromise in traditions here, only a failure on the Navy's part in safeguarding these one thousand citizen from abduction in the first place. That they made their way into the terrorist's hands is very unfortunate, but it proved to be a better option in the long run then being kept in captivity by the despicable s****who kidnapped them in the first place. Every holder has the sole right to decide what is to be done with their own slaves, though their treatment is to be held inside the paramaters of imperial decree. If any holder decides freeing his or her slaves to be worth the return of free imperial citizens that decition lies solely in their hands. After all, slaves are their property as well as their responcibility. This incident should be a warning sign to Imperial authorities and ALL Holders that security were not satisfactory wherever these people were abducted from, and should be improved to prevent this from happening again. Despite your disgust, fact remains that no-one died or were mutilated to death so the empire might have it's martyrs. I for one would rather have living citizens than dead martyrs. Just because a band of holders could not bare to see an insignificant number of slaves dissapear from the economy, don't mean everyone else does. I'm quite sure the families of these people would agree. _________________________ Reformist holder, loyal to House and Empire. Long live the Empire.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.09 14:12:00 - [99] Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel Despite your disgust, fact remains that no-one died or were mutilated to death so the empire might have it's martyrs. I for one would rather have living citizens than dead martyrs. Just because a band of holders could not bare to see an insignificant number of slaves dissapear from the economy, don't mean everyone else does. I'm quite sure the families of these people would agree. You would send a million innocent children into barbarism to save a 1,000 adults? You would sacrifice the salvation of a million souls to gain the lives of a 1,000? Are you religious? ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Lucius Vindictus Amarr Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2010.01.09 14:23:00 - [100] Listen to Merdaneth if you will not heed me, Lady Kyriel. There is no justification for negociating, let alone pass a deal with a terrorist. In this case it is even worse. There will be songs and holoreels about Havohej and his trick. His easy triumph makes Amarrians look like fools and inspire the next wave of terrorists to take it one step further. We are better than this. I will pray for the Lord to shine His wisdom on his capsuleer children.
Revan Neferis Amarr The Archaeus of Blood	Posted - 2010.01.09 14:24:00 - [101] Originally by: Jesmine Kyriel 705 million isk is not pocket money. Yes it is. Revan Neferis Thrice-Illustrious Sovereign Sani Sabik Where love exists peace is victory and beauty is exulted. Where love does not then peace cannot exist, and vendetta is the only truth.
Zuzanna Alondra Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2010.01.09 15:58:00 - [102] Originally by: Lucius Vindictus Listen to Merdaneth if you will not heed me, Lady Kyriel. There is no justification for negociating, let alone pass a deal with a terrorist. In this case it is even worse. There will be songs and holoreels about Havohej and his trick. His easy triumph makes Amarrians look like fools and inspire the next wave of terrorists to take it one step further. We are better than this. I will pray for the Lord to shine His wisdom on his capsuleer children. Well ain't that a spiffy idea - I always wanted to be in a holoreel. Well, might be in the credits anyway. Terrorism is a point of view really - I've also heard the word hero and freedom fighter, but I like to be a positive person. And it's hard to not be pretty happy when you see so many finally coming home. I was personally delighted how things worked out so well, but our work is just beginning. For our next "act of terrorism" one step further we'll be making sure one million people get good medical care and settled into homes. I'm sure more details of our next wave of "terrible" things we are planning include basic education - but I might have to check on that. Zuzanna grins
Lucius Vindictus Amarr Order of the Black Cross	Posted - 2010.01.09 16:30:00 - [103] Edited by: Lucius Vindictus on 09/01/2010 16:36:06 Originally by: Zuzanna Alondra Well ain't that a spiffy idea - I always wanted to be in a holoreel. Well, might be in the credits anyway. Terrorism is a point of view really - I've also heard the word hero and freedom fighter, but I like to be a positive person. And it's hard to not be pretty happy when you see so many finally coming home. I was personally delighted how things worked out so well, but our work is just beginning. For our next "act of terrorism" one step further we'll be making sure one million people get good medical care and settled into homes. I'm sure more details of our next wave of "terrible" things we are planning include basic education - but I might have to check on that. Zuzanna grins Lucius Vindictus fails to surpress a grin. Celebrate your victory and bask in your moment of fame while you can. It is my hope and prayer that this was an incident and that the next time you will actually ... gasps... meet some faint slimmer of oposition?! If your 'job' has become this easy people might start to believe the empire is growing soft... Lucius can be seen grumbling to himself and his command staff as he turns around and the connection is closed.
Jesmine Kyriel Amarr House Kyriel Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.09 16:43:00 - [104] Originally by: Merdaneth You would send a million innocent children into barbarism to save a 1,000 adults? Ofcourse not, but the incident here did not involve barbarism, children or anything of the sort. And if it did we would be having a completely different situation on our hands. Originally by: Merdaneth You would sacrifice the salvation of a million souls to gain the lives of a 1,000? You have to ask for savation for it to be granted to you, and every soul in the cluster knows where to turn to gain it, and what is required. I keep slaves because it's part of Imperial decree; my duty laid out by law and divine mandate. I maintain their slave status for as long and no longer than the law requires of me. On top of this, as explained it is every holder's right to do with his or her slaves as they desire, long as it remains within the bounds of the law. The law does not prohibit the pre-mature release of slaves from servitude, regardless of reason. When this crisis occured, I searched through the ranks off my people under the slave caste, and had each and every one questioned. Few if any wanted to forgo salvation for a one-way ticket to the Republic, but then, mine are all 8th, 7th and 6th generation slaves. I needed slaves who were more... fresh. It's not like it was hard. I found around 6000 fresh on the market from the resent conquests in the Republic who were more than eager to throw away their right to salvation. Having moved them to Rens, I was about to find more when I learned another holder had made a simmilar sacrifice. While I pray for the souls of these people, having discarded their one chance to knock on the gates to paradise, I consider the thousand believers we re-gained far more important. No slave who are as eager to discard their god-given right to salvation as those 6000 slaves were, can match the value of any true believer. We saved 1000 true believers. The price was a million heathens who chose to suffer for eternity. Originally by: Merdaneth Are you religious? I believe so, yes. _________________________ Reformist holder, loyal to House and Empire. Long live the Empire.
Louella Dougans Amarr Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine	Posted - 2010.01.09 17:39:00 - [105] Originally by: Merdaneth You would send a million innocent children into barbarism to save a 1,000 adults? You would sacrifice the salvation of a million souls to gain the lives of a 1,000? Are you religious? As the strange man said to me, these people volunteered, so would be acting in the spirit of Garum and Zakara, as the Prophet wrote. They weren't sent as such. Be A Space Nun! It's Fun!!
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.09 18:04:00 - [106] Originally by: Louella Dougans As the strange man said to me, these people volunteered, so would be acting in the spirit of Garum and Zakara, as the Prophet wrote. They weren't sent as such. A. Did you verify this? B. I have no opposition to trading slaves for Amarrian captives if the slaves were about ready to be freed anyway due to having achieved proper moral standards. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Evet Morrel Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.01.09 18:29:00 - [107] I'm not a religious woman, but there appears to be an absurd number of assumptions being made here. Surely the genuine martyr, at the very least, dies for their beliefs; is this the case here? Even admitting that they are dying for 'their' lord, which I am very far from allowing, this appears to be a very low sort of bar. You need not have faith, conviction nor courage nor much of anything, but be abducted by the notorious Havohej. In truth the Amarr God in appears will let almost anyone in. The whole thing smacks of a convenient sort of nationalism to me. But if so, Havohej appears to be the common denominator, one can imagine the faithful, or indeed the faithless, flocking to his door. Perhaps he should have won the Loyal Servant of the Year with such potent supernatural powers. I salute the daring imagination of the trickster Havohej, yet again he out foxes the jackals. I wouldn't normally dream of doing this: *Evet steps back from the monitor and curtsies.
Louella Dougans Amarr Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine	Posted - 2010.01.09 18:49:00 - [108] Originally by: Merdaneth A. Did you verify this? B. I have no opposition to trading slaves for Amarrian captives if the slaves were about ready to be freed anyway due to having achieved proper moral standards. Verify in what way? I took the man's word that it was so, yes. I did not personally interview one million people to determine if they were sincere or were coached in what to say, no. They behaved morally, yes? Be A Space Nun! It's Fun!!
Kathryn Dougans Amarr Imperial Crusade Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.09 20:41:00 - [109] Originally by: Louella Dougans I took the man's word that it was so You are entirely too trusting, dear. Not everything is as simple and straightforward as your stories. Being a single mother is quite hard.
Aldrith Shutaq Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.09 23:07:00 - [110] Originally by: Zuzanna Alondra Well ain't that a spiffy idea - I always wanted to be in a holoreel. Well, might be in the credits anyway. Terrorism is a point of view really - I've also heard the word hero and freedom fighter, but I like to be a positive person. And it's hard to not be pretty happy when you see so many finally coming home. I was personally delighted how things worked out so well, but our work is just beginning. For our next "act of terrorism" one step further we'll be making sure one million people get good medical care and settled into homes. I'm sure more details of our next wave of "terrible" things we are planning include basic education - but I might have to check on that. Zuzanna grins I hope when Havohej's next plan oversteps the bounds of feasibility and fails to procure your demands you get to watch first hand what your leader does. Find your moral high ground after that. Make no mistake, you all in Du'uma Fiisi are no heros; you owe your thanks not to your cruel threats, but to the Holders who gave up those slaves out of the goodness of their hearts. Clean the dirt off of those poor souls today, fine. Eventually you will be cleaning innocent blood from your own hands. That is why you are called terrorists.
Evet Morrel Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.01.10 00:46:00 - [111] Edited by: Evet Morrel on 10/01/2010 00:49:53 Edited by: Evet Morrel on 10/01/2010 00:47:25 Whatever your view of a puerile theology, which has no need of virtue as a prerequisite for paradise, not that surprising though if you consider its petitioners: the nun Darina Rea or Rhedyn et al. What is clear, to all but the most challenged, is that those who plead not for the happy release of their sisters and brothers, but instead for a bloody escalation, is their need to protect jingoist fanaticism. Their reliance on the immortal indivisible nation of Amarr whose existence is a matter of collective faith; let the buggers be dammed, they'll all go to heaven, yeah right, so long as they can remain titanic. It is they who are despicable of course. Thank goodness for the likes of Louella, who hold fidelity to their faith in higher regard than nationalistic fanaticism. 'God' love the trickster who dared to call their bluff, reminding you that there're moderates amongst you that care for their brethren than they do for national pride. Behemoth Freedom's Banner
Havohej Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2010.01.10 03:18:00 - [112] Originally by: Aldrith Shutaq Find your moral high ground after that. I find that the moral high ground only has any value in discussion fora such as this one. And while I love a good, lively discussion as much as the next man, former Prime Minister Midular can attest to the fact that discussion doesn't free slaves. In fact, I daresay discussion hasn't done anything meaningful at all in centuries. So you may keep your moral high ground. It's all yours. Du'uma Fiisi is Recruiting
Gemma Naquist Kuomi Logistics	Posted - 2010.01.10 09:34:00 - [113] Open Channel: Hav, you got your slaves from Angel Cartel? Well, then you did good. You helped the Empire curb the illegal sale of slaves from a criminal organization. And those people were recent captive slaves, so in that, you did good. You rescued Imperial citizens! You're a hero! Of course, freeing slaves from Angel to hurt Amarr is like robbing Bob's wallet because Bill owes you a fiver. Still, I'm sure the Empire appriciates your efforts. Good job. End Transmission. KUOMI LOGISTICS: Your bright future, today!Ö
Havohej Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2010.01.10 17:05:00 - [114] Originally by: Gemma Naquist You're a hero! Yes, I am. But you're really reaching, now. Even so, I hope you're there to find the positive aspects in everything our corporation does - with you there to point out the silver lining our reputation surely won't get too dirty. Du'uma Fiisi is Recruiting
Aria Jenneth Caldari Ghost Festival Naraka.	Posted - 2010.01.11 06:52:00 - [115] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 11/01/2010 06:52:22 Originally by: Gemma Naquist Of course, freeing slaves from Angel to hurt Amarr is like robbing Bob's wallet because Bill owes you a fiver. Erm. Actually, pilot, it's more like buying goods from Bob for value plus transport, then turning around and trading them to Bill for a thousand times the value-- put in purely economic terms. To put it another way, we delivered goods to Havohej. An anonymous Amarr delivered the goods from Havohej. Havohej, in turn, delivered a million and change of his people from the Amarr. Frankly, I'm floored by the success he's made out of our little exchange.
Joaquin Diabel The EVE Observer	Posted - 2010.04.06 07:31:00 - [116] I'm curious as to what became of these million slaves. Indeed, what became of the thousand hostages? I spoke with Zuzanna Alondra about it over a month ago, but she was rather vague about things... curious that nearly three months after this exchange was said to have taken place, no grand announcement regarding the repatriation of a million souls, no major news items reported on by The Scope or other trusted agencies have been posted to GalNet. I would suspect that there was no trade at all, but Abbess Dougans is widely held to be a reputable capsuleer and she staked her reputation on it by her involvement and confirmation of the trade. Still... There was a veritable whirlwind of activity and then... nothing. So what happened to these people?
Havohej Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics	Posted - 2010.04.07 16:46:00 - [117] Originally by: Joaquin Diabel So what happened to these people? We were counting on people forgetting all about this and then making a grand announcement in a few months' time. Director Alondra tells me you started to interview her on the subject weeks ago, but that she wasn't able to reveal much and the interview went nowhere. My directors and I are discussing how much information we should or shouldn't share; you can expect to hear from Director Alondra again by the end of next week. Du'uma Fiisi is Recruiting
Louella Dougans Amarr Sovereign Hospitaller Order of Saint Katherine	Posted - 2010.04.07 21:39:00 - [118] Originally by: Joaquin Diabel I'm curious as to what became of these million slaves. Indeed, what became of the thousand hostages? Editorial reasons. It might not have been a story that was considered marketable at the time, by the Scope. Possibly they were more concerned with that rumour about the Miss Federation beauty contest winner and her affair with a hostile militia pilot. Or, maybe, they considered one million to be insignificant. Perhaps a billion might have made the news, as it would have been greater than the population of many inhabited worlds, and greater than at least one estimate of the number of new freemen created by the Empress's announcement. The logistics of that would be daunting. The thousand Amarr people that were traded for the million Minmatar people, I had expected the agent I was talking with to take charge of. He didn't, though, and undocked and exploded while I was momentarily distracted. Explain that if you will. I have his ship though. So I took the thousand to Sarum Prime, Mekhios Station, where we have stuff, and then after a while the people would have then been able to travel to destinations of their choice. The million minmatar people, were as far as I could ascertain in the time available, all possessed of appropriate documentation to allow them to travel to the Republic, and be free of any possibility of arbitrary re-enslavement. The agent I talked to, said they were all volunteers. I tried to ask what that meant, got nowhere, all I was told was that they were "righteous", for having surrendered their chance of salvation for the sake of others. Which is hard to argue with, whatever the actual motives that the people had for volunteering. After Captain Havohej took charge of them, they'd have been free to travel to the Republic, or indeed wherever there would be ships to take them. A curious sequence of events, all in all. Be A Space Nun! It's Fun!!

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