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Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.01.07 16:47:00 - [1] So correct me if I am wrong. Basically the different types of players in this channel... 1. Short term scanner just looking for quick turn around using fairly interesting idea to nab trustworthy peeps isk. Current environment sniffs them out due to all the leet paranoia going on. Even if the rare guy were to post a legit offering...one day of the heckling from the warriors would make him want to scam. I know it would me. 2. Mid term scammer who starts small and slowly builds after 2-3 offerings then scams for big isk. Harder to catch as you build that trust but are hoping each offering pays out. Usually offered with collateral in early stages then progresses to noncollateralized offering maybe once or twice to further build trust then the take happens. 3. Long term scammer who was, during 99% of career legit that scams big for one huge take. Usually just someone tired of eve that just doesn't care anymore or tired of their situation...ricdic ring a bell? 4. Longterm trustworthy, or so some say, players who use their noteriety to take one big haul. We know the latest on that. With all this to consider...I applaud you guys for keeping up the good fight and trying to make MD atleast moderately functional. Jovial
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.01.07 17:04:00 - [2] What about people like Proton, he has hundreds of billions of ISK, and runs an IPO because he wants to not because he needs to. I have a similar plan in the works but the reasonings are not because I want to is because I want to test some theories and put something work something I developed to see if it actually does what I think. There are also a good number of current CEO's of IPOs that I believe had the intention to become the Mid/Long term scammer but realized the road to that get there is lined with ISK. There comes a point when you can get funding for whatever you want to do however you want to do it and people will just throw ISK at you. For me personally the only reasons to gain funding is because a) I don't have enough to do it myself. b) Because I want to share the risk of loss or the reward of profits with experiments. Recently I proved to myself that I know what I'm doing in EVE to make billions of ISK, but I never bothered doing it, I'm pretty poor in game, barely 1B ISK to my name, but I'm heavy on assets. The way I look at everything in EVE is, "It's a game, I should be enjoying it." While I could enjoy buying 3B ISK cap charger for a interceptor, I have never been impressed by big wallets. I'm NOT the only one that believes the same thing, I KNOW many others that play EVE the same way. MD is VERY heavy in people that have similar ideologies, in fact out of all the forums I read, MD is the only place to find them. It's just unfortunate that scammers and pessimistic people force themselves onto this forum and post. Amarr for Life
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.01.07 17:19:00 - [3] Nice reply. No doubt there are legit people providing fun and profitable offerings but they are far and few between. I fall in the category of proton as well as I have large isk reserves. I have thought about doing a large offering just for the fun of it with full collateral but i just do not think building the rep would be worth it. I am afraid I definately fall into the "glass is half empty crowd". Maybe one day I will..who knows. I have been forum warrioring for years and md has been getting a bit crazy as of late. If a scam is successful, the ******s come out of the woodwork trying to copy it or just scam another way.
Stardust CEO Stardust Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.01.07 17:20:00 - [4] Originally by: SencneS What about people like Proton, he has hundreds of billions of ISK, and runs an IPO because he wants to not because he needs to. I have a similar plan in the works but the reasonings are not because I want to is because I want to test some theories and put something work something I developed to see if it actually does what I think. There are also a good number of current CEO's of IPOs that I believe had the intention to become the Mid/Long term scammer but realized the road to that get there is lined with ISK. There comes a point when you can get funding for whatever you want to do however you want to do it and people will just throw ISK at you. For me personally the only reasons to gain funding is because a) I don't have enough to do it myself. b) Because I want to share the risk of loss or the reward of profits with experiments. Recently I proved to myself that I know what I'm doing in EVE to make billions of ISK, but I never bothered doing it, I'm pretty poor in game, barely 1B ISK to my name, but I'm heavy on assets. The way I look at everything in EVE is, "It's a game, I should be enjoying it." While I could enjoy buying 3B ISK cap charger for a interceptor, I have never been impressed by big wallets. I'm NOT the only one that believes the same thing, I KNOW many others that play EVE the same way. MD is VERY heavy in people that have similar ideologies, in fact out of all the forums I read, MD is the only place to find them. It's just unfortunate that scammers and pessimistic people force themselves onto this forum and post. I'd leave my own reply, but SecneS' was better, and says what I would say anyways. I'm still hanging around the MD forums, though I haven't had an offering in a while, and I have to say that the lack of real opportunities in here has left me a bit deflated. I seem to remember a time when the majority of offerings were legit, or at least scams that took the time to look legit. That could just be a case of 'the good old days,' but I don't think so.
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.01.07 17:46:00 - [5] Originally by: Stardust CEO the lack of real opportunities in here has left me a bit deflated. I agree. Yes there are some good offerings, but a lot of the recent ones have been rubbish.
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:21:00 - [6] Edited by: Jovialmadness on 08/01/2010 00:24:14 well in time i think the turd wipes will vanish once this lately highly reptitive b*s* is out of the way concering scams. i would hope eventually that the kublai babies being spawned(yes this is a nod to you kublai you little epic bastard you) will eventually be sniffed out.... so easily that i can atleast feel like the opportunity to present a collateral based offering will be worth it for both my fun and the investors fun. ive been toying with putting up a couple of my bpo's as collateral and using profits off the other's i own (as a worse case scenario) along with profits from the new ones i purchase making me and my investors even more of a killing. As it stands now i make a very nice living off what i have. the concern i have is if i put 2 20 billion isk bpo's up for collateral and purchase 2 more for the same price...i probably wont make any profits for awhile atleast in the sense of liquid isk...all my profits from the new bpo's and the others i own will go towards investors i guess. It will probably go to paying off investors for evntual clean ownership of the bpo's. Naturally though once the investors are paid off i will have 2 new bpo's to add to my portfolio and we all had fun at the same time. Question is...with my paranoia who do i trust with the bpo's?
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:25:00 - [7] Originally by: Jovialmadness Question is...with my paranoia who do i trust with the bpo's? I hold them fer u.
Companion Qube	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:49:00 - [8] Man, this place is really going down the tubes. Can we get some moderation around here?
Jovialmadness	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:57:00 - [9] Quote: Originally by: Jovialmadness -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Question is...with my paranoia who do i trust with the bpo's? -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I hold them fer u. heh, i rest my case.
Riethe	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:14:00 - [10] Edited by: Riethe on 08/01/2010 01:14:08 Originally by: Companion Qube Man, this place is really going down the tubes. Can we get some moderation around here? Look at the ...jerks... they let in here. This place is going down faster than the scc lounge edit: what the hell happened with the word filter there
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Jovialmadness Question is...with my paranoia who do i trust with the bpo's? 1. Chribba 2. Chribba 3. Someone you choose, not someone recommended. I believe there are people in MD who could be trusted with your BPOs, and they are not the usual names - integrity is integrity. But I still think you need to make your own mind up.
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:38:00 - [12] Originally by: Jovialmadness Edited by: Jovialmadness on 08/01/2010 00:24:14 well in time i think the turd wipes will vanish once this lately highly reptitive b*s* is out of the way concering scams. i would hope eventually that the kublai babies being spawned(yes this is a nod to you kublai you little epic bastard you) will eventually be sniffed out.... so easily that i can atleast feel like the opportunity to present a collateral based offering will be worth it for both my fun and the investors fun. ive been toying with putting up a couple of my bpo's as collateral and using profits off the other's i own (as a worse case scenario) along with profits from the new ones i purchase making me and my investors even more of a killing. As it stands now i make a very nice living off what i have. the concern i have is if i put 2 20 billion isk bpo's up for collateral and purchase 2 more for the same price...i probably wont make any profits for awhile atleast in the sense of liquid isk...all my profits from the new bpo's and the others i own will go towards investors i guess. It will probably go to paying off investors for evntual clean ownership of the bpo's. Naturally though once the investors are paid off i will have 2 new bpo's to add to my portfolio and we all had fun at the same time. Question is...with my paranoia who do i trust with the bpo's? If you are honestly thinking of going that route there are two choices: 1. Get a loan. Ask several specialist who make loans to what value they would assign your BPO's and what rates the loans are. For myself I require collateral to be at least 110% of the loan and the rate is 5-6% per month. Your liability if I scammed would be about 9% of BPO value (issue with BPO valuation granted) 2. have third party purchase and lockdown your BPO's for you and give you access in a third party holding corp. example: lets say you want to buy a 20B BPO and can return at least 5% per month ROI, you launch a 4% bond on the forum with the third party receiving the funds when the bond fills. They then purchase and lockdown the BPO's for you to use and make money from, you would just be responsible for the interest payments. People who offer the services: 1. BMBE, EBANK, Cosmoray credit Union (me), amke a thread about private loan and see who bites. 2. various people. Again VV and I have a third party corp for lockdowns, perhaps Kazuo, Brock nelson, bad Bobby , some others. In both cases it depends on who your willing to trust and in the case of 2 who MD will accept.

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