I think its pretty damn obvious this was not CCP's intention.




Essentially, yes. Following the op's logic you should just pat them on the back and tell em "Good game guys!". I mean, they were just using the game mechanics, right? -.-

Didnt CCP change FW to reward LP on value of kills made? And also designed the new valuation of items based on the value of average prices over 90 days. Wasnt that what these guys used? It may have been an error to design the game that way, but it was itentional

I could name a dozen things that are valid tactics yet equally an 'obvious exploit'

CCP pick and choose all the time

You seriously think CCP intended to flood the economy with billions of isk and drive down the value of LPs? =p

I don't pretend to know what they intended to do, but driving down the value of LP is the obvious consequence of reworking the LP store to give discounts.

Also if you believe the economy has been flooded with 'billion of isk' then you fail to understand how the LP store works.
Billions of ISK flowed out of the economy, not into it

What they intended is the entire crux of the issue as what they intended determines whether or not this is an exploit. I sincerely do not believe they intended this otherwise there wouldn't be a problem. Obviously there's a problem. So it wasn't intended. Hence its an exploit. What CCP chooses to do about it is another matter but lets not pretend this is what CCP intended to happen.





Into certain wallets is likely a better way of putting it, yes.

Goons knew exactly what they were doing was exploiting.. hense the official goon thread they posted stated "We were waiting for the exploit to be been fixed before we posted this thread".

All the goon alts now on the forums crying, goon tears and the best tears,
Goodbye goons!!

Time to quit and go back to second life, oh wait.. you was banned from that too? What a shocker you guys shot ya self in the foot with this one!

What they do happens every day in real life economy in some way....
in fact they may make things a little bit safer by showing us the flaws....the Spagetti-monster bless them

Yeah and in real life if they play the markets in a way not intended the FSA comes down hard and fines them. They should have just told CCP about the flaw in their plan, not used it then told them.

Tal

was it spotted on sisi before it went live? yes.
did it go live anyway? yes.

i fail to see how it wasn't intended.

If it was really intended it wouldn't be being investigated. Simple as that. Argue all you want, but CCP's actions reveal that this was not intended.

I could name a dozen things that are valid tactics yet equally an 'obvious exploit'

then CCP should stop releasing content before it has been tested/finished.

was it spotted on sisi before it went live? yes.
did it go live anyway? yes.

i fail to see how it wasn't intended.

Actually, I don't think it was. I had posted the question "if you say this was all done in the interest of helping out EvE and the community, then why not do the "proof of concept" on Sisi."

And the response was "not possible". And while I agree the market manipulation wasn't possible as the market doesn't exists there, generating crap loads of LP and presenting to the devs with "See, in 15 minutes I just earned 1 BILLION LP's. Are you sure you guys got this stuff right?"

So, no, it wasn't spotted on Sisi. And even if the market did exist and everything was doable on Sisi, they wouldn't have done it there anyway.

As they already stated, the point wasn't to QA the system design, the point was to get rich, filthy space rich. And, then try and shut down the operation by telling CCP about so that nobody else got space rich, because "that would be damaging".

Exploit is Exploit....No matter how you color it
But i doubt anything serious will happen, CCP loves *snip* CCP

It-¦s not allowed to insult CCP and it-¦s Member, so i fixed your post!
See Forum Rules for further Information

ISD Dosnix

In an MMO something is an exploit if the people who make the game say it is. Its really that simple.

"Much of what we believed to be true could not be tested on SISI."

clearly the issue had already been identified, but was untested. it was spotted on sisi.

was it spotted on sisi before it went live? yes.
did it go live anyway? yes.

i fail to see how it wasn't intended.

The issue was spotted by reading the dev blogs about how they were going to reward LPs. It could have been demonstrated (at least the raping of the LP reward system anyway) and shown to CCP, but again, they didn't see the value in that.

Again, it was about "abusing", "exploiting", "cheating", "working" (whatever verb suits you) the situation for individual profit.

every thing people do in this game is for individual profit. they simply logged in, and played the game and made money, like every other player. just because CCP made this method of making money faster than another method of making money doesn't make it an exploit, or cheating, or abusing.

It appears the proper tactic would have been to alert CCP to the problem. If CCP failed to do anything to correct it once alerted then use the problem to your advantage.

Unfortunately it appears these goon spacefriends used the problem to their advantage, then alerted CCP to the problem.

The problem here being the market basis formula and lp reward ratios.

Regardless one poster above, I can't remember who, identified another huge flaw in the new FW design. The advantages for acheiving each tier are massive. In a game with usually 5% advantages per level (with skills) who thought a 100% advantage per level or whatever the damn advantage is for each tier was a good idea. That and no reward at all for defensive plexing. I can understand wanting to favor offensive plexing and incentivize attainment of each tier, but the design here seems extreme.

Soundwave doesn't have to hope the system is broken, it is broken.

Ah, see, this is where you are confused.

"... CCP didn't make this method of making money..." at all. The intent of Faction War loyalty rewards isn't to make money, at least not excessively. The intent is to give people a little incentive to bother with it since you can't fund Faction War PVP with the traditional "moon goo", "abusive landlord", what have you.

And I believe this is why action was taken. Because they broke the intent and abused Faction Wars.

Unless you think making alts in all factions and killing yourself over and over is fun, then this whole things reeks of "lame emergent game play"

Goons will get a wee wee slap im sure, would suck if they all rage quit

Explain people what is the Wee Wee Slap first so they know how painful it can be:

You put someone in some closed room, no windows, no light, no water no food and no toilets and you make them listen this for 48h NON STOP

telling me i'm confused, then telling me CCP didn't make it. then who did? the pixies?

seriously though; CCP did make the method, and people used it. i'm sure CCP didn't intend for FW to have this kind of result. at the end of the day though, it has happened. CCP should have just gone "ok, we had a few teething problems with it, it's now fixed, carry on." we all make mistakes and CCP made one by releasing FW in the state it was. goons shouldn't be punished for CCP releasing FW in the state they did.

also if you justify some thing's legitimacy by how fun it is; ban all miners. clearly they're all cheating because they're making money by doing some thing boring.