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Eve Trust No one matra vs Eve HQ

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Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.01.14 03:32:00 - [1] Eve HQ seems like a great program and I know many corp-mates that use it... its features make me jealous. Problem : It requires a full api which, I believe, means that the program will see all my trades . Wouldn't that be a huge temptation to look for fat profits on regional purchases and sales oportunities far above or below the norm ? Sure the market screen already shows highs and lows and average prices but that really doesn't reveal how fat the tails are necessarily and its harder to parse. The eve motto seems to be trust-no-one... should I trust eve-hq ? thoughts ?
Thrasymachus TheSophist	Posted - 2010.01.14 03:57:00 - [2] Fat profits and huge margins are already publically available. Just show past orders in the chart and compare high v. low, with added info of volume. The technical answer to your question is yes - of course the developer could try to parse through everyone's logs using it and find deals. Practically, however, I am doubtful that anyone would bother.
AmarrettoDiAmarr	Posted - 2010.01.14 05:40:00 - [3] That does not strike me as the biggest worry. You are downloading an executable, written by someone involved with EVE. It could put a keylogger on, take over your EVE account and sell your credit card, bank and brokerage info to crooks to generate money to buy even more ISK. If your anti-virus is better than his keylogger you should be ok. But it could modify EVE executable with either keylogging or a trojan/man-in-the-middle attack to just get your EVE account password. Trivially easy and not detectible by anti-virus software, the executable could wait and serve as a sleeper botnet. Just before a big operation, the signal would go out and the next time it ran it would delete or better yet corrupt your EVE installation. So you and your allies are trying to debug, download and reinstall EVE instead of defending your sovereignty. Obviously, EVEHQ would not do this. But there are downsides to CCP's target audience being dishonest people behaving antisocially. tl;dr: EVE HQ should be fine, but if they were to behave badly, then there is more to worry about than stealing your secret trading mojo.
Aversin Gallente Universalis Imperium Tactical Narcotics Team	Posted - 2010.01.14 12:20:00 - [4] I just installed evehq yesterday and I am fairly positive I only entered a limited API. This may not enable some features, but it works for what I needed. Originally by: Razner Cerizo They will never quit. The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Steve Celeste Caldari Overdogs	Posted - 2010.01.14 12:38:00 - [5] Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr Trivially easy and not detectible by anti-virus software, the executable could wait and serve as a sleeper botnet. Just before a big operation, the signal would go out and the next time it ran it would delete or better yet corrupt your EVE installation. So you and your allies are trying to debug, download and reinstall EVE instead of defending your sovereignty. And it could project space ninja's on your screen to a backdrop of hallucinogenic mind-altering images to make you believe you are fighting your enemy when in fact you are shooting your own alliance's titan! It could hack your game and turn every player's class into NIGHT ELF MOHAWK. The possibilities are limitless.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.14 13:27:00 - [6] Isn't it open source? If not, there's EVEMeep doing almost the same which is. In that case just rebuild it yourself so you know that the compiled executable is actually the source you see. P.S. On the paranoid route: remember that CCP employees were found cheating and consorting with players AFAIK. What guarantees that there's no backdoor in EvE left by them that gathers your credit card info? What guarantees that when you pay your subscription with your credit card, CCP are not keeping its data to rob you later? What guarantees that a product made by hundreds of unknown people (Microsoft Windows) has no backdoor sending your data to some Area 51 Microsoft Alien center? What guarantees that your Chinese made BIOS on your computer is not doctored (there are lawsuits in progress on security software exactly on this) to send your keystrokes or even snapshot of your stuff to some remote sweatshop lab? I could go on for weeks. You are in unknowns hands since you were born... - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
TornSoul BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2010.01.14 13:33:00 - [7] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha What guarantees that when you pay your subscription with your credit card, CCP are not keeping its data to rob you later? CCP does not have access to CC info. This is handled by a 3rd party. Standard practice. Just a FYI, nothing else. BIG Lottery
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.01.14 13:41:00 - [8] For what it's worth, paranoia strikes deep. Into your life it will creep. It starts when you're always afraid. You step out of line, the man come and take you away. We better stop, hey, what's that sound. Everybody look what's going down.
Winterjack	Posted - 2010.01.14 15:40:00 - [9] Edited by: Winterjack on 14/01/2010 15:40:02 Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr Trivially easy and not detectible by anti-virus software, the executable could wait and serve as a sleeper botnet. A good FIREWALL (please don't mention winbloze one) will prevent this. Solved. EDIT: me's too tired and confuses firewalls and antiviruses :S
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.14 16:12:00 - [10] Originally by: Winterjack Edited by: Winterjack on 14/01/2010 15:40:02 Originally by: AmarrettoDiAmarr Trivially easy and not detectible by anti-virus software, the executable could wait and serve as a sleeper botnet. A good FIREWALL (please don't mention winbloze one) will prevent this. Solved. EDIT: me's too tired and confuses firewalls and antiviruses :S How's that? You have to allow the app through the firewall for normal functionality. Unless your edit means you retract your statement... Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money

Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.01.14 18:13:00 - [11] Some interesting stuff above and without nodding my head to specific ones... I'm not too paranoid about the world, cross my fingers that my anti virus and firewalls will handle most risks and I Don't think that the guys involved would do anything ilegal in rl like hacking my computer software etc. Voluntarily sharing my api with the HQ gus does seem like an invitation for them to make isk using the info either finding trade opportunities or selling fleet movement data to 0.0 opposition (for isk). The voluntary surrender of game info isn't that much a stretch to think that its fair to use for meta gaming ... and certainly isn't ilegal in rl and I'm sure isn't banable by CCP... they warn you about sharing full api data and you can always turn it off by changing your api key.
Tasbard	Posted - 2010.01.14 19:24:00 - [12] Paranoia strikes deep in the heartland But I think it's all overdone Exaggerating this and exaggerating that They don't have no fun I don't believe what I read in the papers They're just out to capture my dime I ain't worrying And I ain't scurrying; I'm having a good time Have a good time Have a good time Have a good time Have a good time Maybe I'm laughing my way to disaster Maybe my race has been run Maybe I'm blind to the fate of mankind But what can be done?
Vessper SI Radio	Posted - 2010.01.14 22:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Eve HQ seems like a great program and I know many corp-mates that use it... its features make me jealous. Problem : It requires a full api which, I believe, means that the program will see all my trades . Wouldn't that be a huge temptation to look for fat profits on regional purchases and sales oportunities far above or below the norm ? Sure the market screen already shows highs and lows and average prices but that really doesn't reveal how fat the tails are necessarily and its harder to parse. The eve motto seems to be trust-no-one... should I trust eve-hq ? thoughts ? EveHQ is an open source application. The source code can be displayed in a web browser or if you're a developer type, you can download the whole code to your computer using a Subversion client. From there, you can view the code or the build the application yourself. If that doesn't mean anything to you, maybe get a friend or corpmate to check it for you. All the relevant links are available from the EveHQ website. The bottom line is that it is ultimately down to you whether you trust an application with a) your whole PC and b) your full API key. As the main developer of EveHQ, all I can say to you is that there is nothing covert going on. I'm sure that if there was, some other paranoid folks with packet sniffers out there that would have called shenanigans ages ago! I hope you decide to try EveHQ but if you have further concerns, feel free to get in touch. EveHQ Character App
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.01.15 04:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Vessper The bottom line is that it is ultimately down to you whether you trust an application with a) your whole PC and b) your full API key. As the main developer of EveHQ, all I can say to you is that there is nothing covert going on. I'm sure that if there was, some other paranoid folks with packet sniffers out there that would have called shenanigans ages ago! I hope you decide to try EveHQ but if you have further concerns, feel free to get in touch. Hey Vessper, First thanks for all the great work on something lots of people use , I know these things are labors of love and I really respect that. I can tell from most of the responses that I guess that I didnÆt really ask the question right à. I certainly didnÆt think youÆd be hacking my computerà I was just wondering whether youÆd use the data from the full api that I was assuming that I was voluntarily giving some æserverÆ (? IÆm not a tech so excuse me if thatÆs laughable) where information from eve was parsed then passed to the application on my computer. But, maybe IÆve got that initial premise wrong entirely? Am I only giving the application on my computer the full api and does my computer then just query info directly with some ccp ôxml dohickyö without any of my game info going through or out to anyplace other than my computer and their computer (ok ok, obviously there are switches and routers at my isp and stuff ) I hope IÆve managed to ask that in way that can be understood. And thanks again for the work on something that IÆm looking forward to using. (pretty much the acceptance of the application by this sharpnosed group here on md hugely eases my fears)
KaarBaak Minmatar Mindstar Technology	Posted - 2010.01.15 04:21:00 - [15] I wrote a little treatise on e-trust in EvE. Talks about API. KB KB My blogs: Tastes Like Chicken EvE Meta-Gaming
Vessper SI Radio	Posted - 2010.01.15 18:38:00 - [16] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso Am I only giving the application on my computer the full api and does my computer then just query info directly with some ccp ôxml dohickyö without any of my game info going through or out to anyplace other than my computer and their computer (ok ok, obviously there are switches and routers at my isp and stuff ) This is pretty much how it works. When you supply EveHQ with your API key (whether it be the limited or the full one - the same applies), the key is stored on your computer and on that computer only. When you make a request for some API data, the userID and APIKey information is passed to the CCP API Server in order to fetch various XML files. The XML data is then downloaded from the CCP API Server and a copy is kept on your own PC until such time as you make another successful API request. Also, don't forget that you can check when something has accessed your API (and from what IP address) by using CCP's API Access Log: http://www.eveonline.com/api/log.asp EveHQ Character App
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.01.15 20:38:00 - [17] Originally by: Vessper snip Eve HQ rocks. I love it. --Vel Brand new year, same old attitude.


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