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Direstorm	Posted - 2010.01.16 00:22:00 - [1] Edited by: Direstorm on 16/01/2010 00:24:01 Edited by: Direstorm on 16/01/2010 00:23:16 * How many low-SP frigates/destroyers/cruisers (because that's all they can fly) does it take to bring down a HAC? * Can a battleship take out a HAC one on one if it's fitted specifically for that purpose? * What's the best way for a carebear corp to take out a trio of HAC's? * How do assault frigates fare against HAC's? Thx!
Tyrone Bighams Gallente Auto Lock	Posted - 2010.01.16 00:30:00 - [2] well, a battleship is definitely gonna take out a hac if set up propperly. it really depends on the hac, but id recommend a neut domi. as for how many low sp frigs it would take, id say it would have to depend on the type of hac. if it can tank, like a sac, any fleet large enough to kill it would scare him off when it appeared in local. same result for cruisers best way for a carebear corp to take out a trio of hacs is to bait them with a retreiever or something and then jump them with blackbirds. just an idea. make sure ur in an adjacent system and ur bait know what hes doing. assault frigs could do okay vs hacs, but theyd have to outnumber and id prolly rather have a taranis. In Actuality What Has Been Stated Applies More Directly To The Former Poster Than to Myself. NO, U!!!
Eseay	Posted - 2010.01.16 01:01:00 - [3] depending on the situation, a single frig can take out a hac yes last time i checked, BC are a good counter to HACS depending on the situation, very good to terrible
Gottii Minmatar Re-Awakened Technologies Inc	Posted - 2010.01.16 02:32:00 - [4] Edited by: Gottii on 16/01/2010 02:32:59 Really depends on the HAC in question. A Zealot is a very different ship than an Ishtar, which is very different from a Vagabond, and so on.
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.01.16 03:26:00 - [5] Edited by: lollerwaffle on 16/01/2010 03:27:47 Originally by: Gottii Edited by: Gottii on 16/01/2010 02:32:59 Really depends on the HAC in question. A Zealot is a very different ship than an Ishtar, which is very different from a Vagabond, and so on. ^This. In general though, Zealot: If you can get close in a frigate and orbit at 500m, you win. Remember to fit a scram, zealot has no anti frigate weaponry (drones) and will die. Sac: Tanks like a beast, can be killed but takes time and backup might arrive. Use neuts. Vaga: Very fast, good medium range damage. Well flown and fitted is very, very dangerous to frigs and cruisers. Throwaway ceptor/speedy ship to land a scram until the rest catch up is pretty useful. Muninn: Most likely sniper. Some anti frig weaponry, neuts/aml and drones. Run if you see one at range. Ishtar: Lots and lots and lots of drones. Best bet is to ECM his face and hold him in place while you quickly kill him. Very, very dangerous to frigs/cruisers/BC if well flown. Deimos: Can be beaten solo with most skilled BC. Amazing DPS but can only do it up close, stay out of scram range and tickle him to death. Sometimes sniperfit. Cerb: Missile boat. Normally range support, medium to light tank. If you can get a scram on him he should go down quick under sustained fire. Frigate defense in the form of AML. Eagle: Sniper or solid tank with blasters. Solid tank, quite chunky even when sniper fit. Nonblaster fits have no anti close range frig. That should cover them all and give you a general idea of the different hacs, mostly from a frigate viewpoint though. It all depends on what ships you guys can fly and where your skillpoints lie in for tactics you can use. Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Tyrone Bighams Gallente Auto Lock	Posted - 2010.01.16 03:31:00 - [6] Originally by: Eseay depending on the situation, a single frig can take out a hac i wanna know how in the name of whoevers cranking up there, how the freak does a single low skilled t1 frigate get a kill on a hac without getting lucky with an afk grind to the grave. this is a fascinating question. if what youre saying is true, the game balance has been tremendously broken for years. lets all thank Eseay for pulling back the curtains on ccp's obvious foul up. i stand illuminated In Actuality What Has Been Stated Applies More Directly To The Former Poster Than to Myself. NO, U!!!
Eseay	Posted - 2010.01.16 03:48:00 - [7] you're kidding right? get a web and a scram and orbit at 500 on a vaga/zealot/eagle. kill their drones and shoot until they pop. they can't do anything
Asuka Smith Gallente Noir.	Posted - 2010.01.16 04:52:00 - [8] Long range sniping battleships usually own HACs if you can get a good warpin at say 100-150km and have tacklers in frigates to keep them stuck while you focus fire them down. Or you can get a huginn/lachesis combo to tackle and then have BCs slaughter them. Or you could do an RRBC/BS gang. The main trick though is to get them to engage YOU in a fight where you have the edge. HACs are very agile, so if they know they are going to lose they will be gone quite fast. You need something that will get them in to engage so you can spring your trap with whatever sledgehammer you choose to use on them.
Multipurpose Cleaner	Posted - 2010.01.16 05:12:00 - [9] Originally by: Tyrone Bighams i wanna know how in the name of whoevers cranking up there, how the freak does a single low skilled t1 frigate get a kill on a hac without getting lucky with an afk grind to the grave. this is a fascinating question. if what youre saying is true, the game balance has been tremendously broken for years. lets all thank Eseay for pulling back the curtains on ccp's obvious foul up. i stand illuminated Stop giving more 'advice' tbh if you don't know how stuff works.
Don Pellegrino Helljumpers Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.01.16 05:21:00 - [10] it REALLY depends on the HAC. An assault ship can take down a Zealot and a Muninn because those won't be able to track you if you know how to manually orbit and approach them without dying in one volley. Some other HACs are deadly in close range combat like the Ishtar and Sacrilege. A skilled (low SP) T1 frigate pilot will take out a Zealot, you just need some practice, ask your corpmates. A properly pvp fitted BS should always be able to take out a HAC. HACs are used over BCs because of their speed, range, versatility and survibility. For other purposes, BCs are superior (generally speaking).

Heccie Thump	Posted - 2010.01.16 11:13:00 - [11] Originally by: Eseay you're kidding right? get a web and a scram and orbit at 500 on a vaga/zealot/eagle. kill their drones and shoot until they pop. they can't do anything Won't work on a Vaga. The Vaga WILL have a medium neut on board specifically to deal with this situation. Once your cap is gone and your modules switch off he is going to fire up the MWD for one cycle and burn away, reducing your transversal and you will die horribly. Alternatively, he just warps off. But if you get two or more frigs at 500m on him you may have a chance, if you can pop his 5 x Warrior IIs in time.
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.01.16 11:30:00 - [12] Originally by: Heccie Thump Originally by: Eseay you're kidding right? get a web and a scram and orbit at 500 on a vaga/zealot/eagle. kill their drones and shoot until they pop. they can't do anything Won't work on a Vaga. The Vaga WILL have a medium neut on board specifically to deal with this situation. Once your cap is gone and your modules switch off he is going to fire up the MWD for one cycle and burn away, reducing your transversal and you will die horribly. Alternatively, he just warps off. But if you get two or more frigs at 500m on him you may have a chance, if you can pop his 5 x Warrior IIs in time. Yes, because all Vaga pilots fit Neuts? Every engagement you go into you have to think about how competent (or lack thereof, rather) your opponent is. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Grut The Protei	Posted - 2010.01.16 11:39:00 - [13] Originally by: Direstorm * What's the best way for a carebear corp to take out a trio of HAC's? Bait and gank. Fit a cruiser or preferably BC for max tank with loads of tackle. Something like a drake is fine, don't use a proph or anything else obvious. Have as many people as you can sitting in a station system next door on a pounce point. Once they take the bait jump in and teh blob can own whatever the baits tackled, the others will probably get away unless your really lucky. Repeat constantly until they leave you alone. While vs anyone decent baiting only works once, it means that whenever theres enough of you online the other corp is going to think twice before engaging a ship that could be bait. If the HACs are vagas / nano ishtars you've have immense problems catching one, but atleast with enough blobbage they might pick an easier target. For carebear corps you've got to consider the following. 1. Coordination - You NEED an FC, dosent matter if their awesome / experienced, they just have to be able to make decisions can communicate them clearly - no gang boss = automatic failure equally having 2+ bosses in the same fleet aint good. everyone should have comms if they don't it takes 2 mins to download and setup, dosent matter if people don't have a mic aslong as they can listen. 2. Failfits - scan you corpies and if they can't fit a ship shoot & pod them. Kinsy > deadman you there? Kinsy > are either of us in pods, becase we dont know... Mostly harmless [ 2005.12.09 19:22:50 ] (notify) You have started trying to warp scramble the Dreadnought
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2010.01.16 11:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Intigo Originally by: Heccie Thump Originally by: Eseay you're kidding right? get a web and a scram and orbit at 500 on a vaga/zealot/eagle. kill their drones and shoot until they pop. they can't do anything Won't work on a Vaga. The Vaga WILL have a medium neut on board specifically to deal with this situation. Once your cap is gone and your modules switch off he is going to fire up the MWD for one cycle and burn away, reducing your transversal and you will die horribly. Alternatively, he just warps off. But if you get two or more frigs at 500m on him you may have a chance, if you can pop his 5 x Warrior IIs in time. Yes, because all Vaga pilots fit Neuts? Every engagement you go into you have to think about how competent (or lack thereof, rather) your opponent is. 9 in 10 do fit a neut. And best way to survive fights is to expect for the worse, so I would expect it to have the neut.
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.01.16 12:00:00 - [15] Edited by: Intigo on 16/01/2010 12:00:49 Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Intigo Originally by: Heccie Thump Originally by: Eseay you're kidding right? get a web and a scram and orbit at 500 on a vaga/zealot/eagle. kill their drones and shoot until they pop. they can't do anything Won't work on a Vaga. The Vaga WILL have a medium neut on board specifically to deal with this situation. Once your cap is gone and your modules switch off he is going to fire up the MWD for one cycle and burn away, reducing your transversal and you will die horribly. Alternatively, he just warps off. But if you get two or more frigs at 500m on him you may have a chance, if you can pop his 5 x Warrior IIs in time. Yes, because all Vaga pilots fit Neuts? Every engagement you go into you have to think about how competent (or lack thereof, rather) your opponent is. 9 in 10 do fit a neut. And best way to survive fights is to expect for the worse, so I would expect it to have the neut. Yes, and 8 in 10 of the posts you make have statistics that are made up on the spot. It's nowhere 9 in 10, stop being stupid. Yes, you should always expect the worst - but if you are slightly competent yourself you will check if the pilot in question has lost any Vagabonds before and how they were fitted. Then you can easily assume they are just as incompetent in their future fittings if they don't have a Neut. Or you will miss out on kills like this that are quite easy and great fun. Gamble once in a while, you never know what you're gonna get. Assuming everyone can beat you is boring. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Darthewok Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.16 12:31:00 - [16] a few stabbers to get the initial tackle (frigs will die too quickly to HACs to maintain point till the calvary arrives) lots of cruisers hidden away to warp in once the HAC(s) are tackled you'll lose plenty of cruisers but if you can kill a single HAC it will be a positive ratio in terms of ISK. (HACs are expensive)
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2010.01.16 14:10:00 - [17] Originally by: Darthewok a few stabbers to get the initial tackle (frigs will die too quickly to HACs to maintain point till the calvary arrives) lots of cruisers hidden away to warp in once the HAC(s) are tackled you'll lose plenty of cruisers but if you can kill a single HAC it will be a positive ratio in terms of ISK. (HACs are expensive) Dumb.
Darthewok Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.16 14:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Intigo Originally by: Darthewok a few stabbers to get the initial tackle (frigs will die too quickly to HACs to maintain point till the calvary arrives) lots of cruisers hidden away to warp in once the HAC(s) are tackled you'll lose plenty of cruisers but if you can kill a single HAC it will be a positive ratio in terms of ISK. (HACs are expensive) Dumb. OP's group is gang of low skilled t1 frigs/dessies/cruisers vs 3 HACs. care to share your better solution instead of cowardly criticising with no suggestions of your own?
yani dumyat Minmatar Pixie Cats	Posted - 2010.01.16 19:09:00 - [19] Originally by: Grut 1. Coordination - You NEED an FC, dosent matter if their awesome / experienced, they just have to be able to make decisions can communicate them clearly - no gang boss = automatic failure equally having 2+ bosses in the same fleet aint good. everyone should have comms if they don't it takes 2 mins to download and setup, dosent matter if people don't have a mic aslong as they can listen. 2. Failfits - scan you corpies and if they can't fit a ship shoot & pod them. This ^^ If no one in your corp has any PVP experience at all then i'd recommend hiring or recruiting someone who does to train people in the basics and act as FC. Alternatively have a corp meet on sisi and work out some tactics. Ask in FD-MLJ local and you'll most likely find people who are willing to fly hacs for you to fight against. (all equipment on the test server costs 100isk so is essentially a free way to test out tactics) _________________________________________________ Lifeboat ----> + Human
Bequin Vamberfeld	Posted - 2010.01.17 00:18:00 - [20] Originally by: yani dumyat Originally by: Grut 1. Coordination - You NEED an FC, dosent matter if their awesome / experienced, they just have to be able to make decisions can communicate them clearly - no gang boss = automatic failure equally having 2+ bosses in the same fleet aint good. everyone should have comms if they don't it takes 2 mins to download and setup, dosent matter if people don't have a mic aslong as they can listen. 2. Failfits - scan you corpies and if they can't fit a ship shoot & pod them. This ^^ If no one in your corp has any PVP experience at all then i'd recommend hiring or recruiting someone who does to train people in the basics and act as FC. Alternatively have a corp meet on sisi and work out some tactics. Ask in FD-MLJ local and you'll most likely find people who are willing to fly hacs for you to fight against. (all equipment on the test server costs 100isk so is essentially a free way to test out tactics) I would like to second this motion. ONE person in charge, giving orders and ALL fleet members following those orders to their death if necessary without deviation or hesitation. Practice makes a good FC. Even a bunch of carebears who take time practice once a week for an hour with their FC movement, tackling, tanking and comms will find themselves on the better end of the griefers and even wardecs. There are good cheat sheets out there that show the capabilities and weaknesses of all the ships (I use this as I can't remember all the names of all the ships, what they do and what their tank and drone bays are).

Taudia Gallente Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.01.17 01:10:00 - [21] Edited by: Taudia on 17/01/2010 01:11:46 Originally by: Direstorm * How many low-SP frigates/destroyers/cruisers (because that's all they can fly) does it take to bring down a HAC? Don't try with dessies or frigs, unless you know what you're doing. Frigates can take out certain HACs if they use certain common fittings but it is tricky. Else, here's how you do it: 1) Bait with tanked Cruiser (usually 1600mm plate ect). 2) Disable the hacs speed. 3) Apply 1x blackbird. 4) The HAC has no options long term other than getting backup. Originally by: Direstorm * Can a battleship take out a HAC one on one if it's fitted specifically for that purpose? Yes - most common BS fits stand good chances of beating HACS without being fit for that purpose. Large energy destabilizes are key usually, though there are other options. Overall BS just have way way more brute force than HACs or even command ships - their t2 pricetag buys them range and speed, mostly. Originally by: Direstorm * What's the best way for a carebear corp to take out a trio of HAC's? As others have pointed out, it really depends on the HACs and the situation. You need to kill their speed and they're (for the most part) only a bit tougher than cruisers. Originally by: Direstorm * How do assault frigates fare against HAC's? Very, very badly. AF are in general not very impressive and against a ship that can likely hit it, it's not going to be easy at all.
PsychoBones Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.17 06:46:00 - [22] TBH, in most cases an assault frigate is the wrong answer. They do have their occasional uses, but chances are an interceptor is going to do the job better and faster.
Lokia Enroch Disciple in Faith	Posted - 2010.01.17 15:06:00 - [23] Originally by: Intigo Edited by: Intigo on 16/01/2010 12:00:49 Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Intigo Yes, because all Vaga pilots fit Neuts? Every engagement you go into you have to think about how competent (or lack thereof, rather) your opponent is. 9 in 10 do fit a neut. And best way to survive fights is to expect for the worse, so I would expect it to have the neut. Yes, and 8 in 10 of the posts you make have statistics that are made up on the spot. It's nowhere 9 in 10, stop being stupid. Yes, you should always expect the worst - but if you are slightly competent yourself you will check if the pilot in question has lost any Vagabonds before and how they were fitted. Then you can easily assume they are just as incompetent in their future fittings if they don't have a Neut. Or you will miss out on kills like this that are quite easy and great fun. Gamble once in a while, you never know what you're gonna get. Assuming everyone can beat you is boring. To be fair, you're in a Dramiel, and even if you get nueted you're fast enough a single pulse of the MWD would allow you to get away. And they generaly fit a decent tank/speed to risk a one on one encounter with a Vagabond. I'd not consider engaging a vaga in most any other frig aside from a claw or some other very fast interceptor. That is an idea, have your crew all fly interceptors! Swarm them, and the moment any of you start taking damage have that person peel (not warp) off the fight for a bit then re-enter. They also don't take a long time to train. They are also pretty cheap as far as T2 ships go.
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.01.17 16:31:00 - [24] Originally by: Lokia Enroch Originally by: Intigo Edited by: Intigo on 16/01/2010 12:00:49 Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Intigo Yes, because all Vaga pilots fit Neuts? Every engagement you go into you have to think about how competent (or lack thereof, rather) your opponent is. 9 in 10 do fit a neut. And best way to survive fights is to expect for the worse, so I would expect it to have the neut. Yes, and 8 in 10 of the posts you make have statistics that are made up on the spot. It's nowhere 9 in 10, stop being stupid. Yes, you should always expect the worst - but if you are slightly competent yourself you will check if the pilot in question has lost any Vagabonds before and how they were fitted. Then you can easily assume they are just as incompetent in their future fittings if they don't have a Neut. Or you will miss out on kills like this that are quite easy and great fun. Gamble once in a while, you never know what you're gonna get. Assuming everyone can beat you is boring. To be fair, you're in a Dramiel, and even if you get nueted you're fast enough a single pulse of the MWD would allow you to get away. And they generaly fit a decent tank/speed to risk a one on one encounter with a Vagabond. I'd not consider engaging a vaga in most any other frig aside from a claw or some other very fast interceptor. That is an idea, have your crew all fly interceptors! Swarm them, and the moment any of you start taking damage have that person peel (not warp) off the fight for a bit then re-enter. They also don't take a long time to train. They are also pretty cheap as far as T2 ships go. Doesn't really matter what frigate you're in if they're fitted like an idiot. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
lilrez GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.17 17:20:00 - [25] Edited by: lilrez on 17/01/2010 17:21:37 Vagas are squishy, take away their speed and they'll pop soon enough. Also to answer to OP just use EWAR with like 5 rifters. Some tracking disruptors, ecm, scrams, take that foo out. Kite him off gates/stations first with some bait. If your bait has neuts/scram so much better.
Darthewok Perkone	Posted - 2010.01.17 17:54:00 - [26] Edited by: Darthewok on 17/01/2010 17:57:19 Doesn't really matter what frigate you're in if they're fitted like an idiot. ok now that is a respectable solo kill. rifter killing vaga. not impressed by dramiel pilots killing all kinds of stuff as its a freaking 80mil ISK hull. for that cost (2xBC or a BS) it better be able to. killed arazu solo with rifter and cerberus solo with jaguar but unfortunately no vaga ****fit yet :p
Lokia Enroch Disciple in Faith	Posted - 2010.01.17 19:28:00 - [27] Originally by: Intigo Doesn't really matter what frigate you're in if they're fitted like an idiot. That is pretty bad. I can only assume you had a scam to turn the MWD off, and his drone skills are fail (T2 at lest I'd hope)? Good evidence that you should have nuets on a vaga.
Saitekon	Posted - 2010.01.18 01:12:00 - [28] Originally by: lilrez Edited by: lilrez on 17/01/2010 17:21:37 Vagas are squishy, take away their speed and they'll pop soon enough. Also to answer to OP just use EWAR with like 5 rifters. Some tracking disruptors, ecm, scrams, take that foo out. Kite him off gates/stations first with some bait. If your bait has neuts/scram so much better. Goonie answer to everything is a swarm of rifters lol. Vaga? Bring some rifters. Curse? Bring some rifters. Rook? Bring some rifters. Titan? Bring some rifters.
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2010.01.18 10:23:00 - [29] Originally by: Intigo [ Yes, and 8 in 10 of the posts you make have statistics that are made up on the spot. It's nowhere 9 in 10, stop being stupid. Yes, you should always expect the worst - but if you are slightly competent yourself you will check if the pilot in question has lost any Vagabonds before and how they were fitted. Then you can easily assume they are just as incompetent in their future fittings if they don't have a Neut. Or you will miss out on kills like this that are quite easy and great fun. Gamble once in a while, you never know what you're gonna get. Assuming everyone can beat you is boring. Show me then a few good vaga pilots that advise you to put something else on that last high slot. Everyone that flies a a vaga uses a neut or a cloak if he is not really actively hunting anything but macro raven ratters (because you cannot lock any cruisers in time while using one) . Putting a missile is just a LOL and no one with half a brain would do that. If i wait the time to check in killboardswhat a given pilot flies I will loose half my chances of having a good fight, because that will take precious minutes (unless you are station camping someone, but vaga is not much used for that). And I am not up fro gambling, either on game or RL, my pleasure in game come from knowing I used my brain to select the best situation where i have overcome my opponent even before the fight starts. First ruyle of a good fight is the fight should be decide before it even starts.
Intigo Amarr Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.01.18 11:52:00 - [30] You are a major derp... A) It takes around 30 seconds max to check a player's history on BC. If they want to engage you you can simply warp off to a planet and check the history mid-warp - that's what I did with the Vagabond. B) Yes, everyone good would fit a Neut in the last high slot but GUESS WHAT - not everyone in EVE is good at PvP. SHOCKER?! Keep flying risk-free and get zero interesting kills. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.



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