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Sibane
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Posted - 2010.01.19 10:27:00 -
[1]
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1125764&page=1#3
Originally by: CCP Fallout Unfortunately, Customer Support has to take preemptive action when accounts have been accessed by IPs frequently used by hackers, even though nothing has been stolen yet
I have one thing to say to you CCP: ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? DO YOU EVEN ****ING UNDERSTAND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS? proxys? dynamic IPs allocation?
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Serpents smile
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Posted - 2010.01.19 10:30:00 -
[2]
I think that ranting is not allowed. /me waves byebye...
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Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiau
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Posted - 2010.01.19 10:41:00 -
[3]
Armchair computer expert gives a lecture to the real experts on how the internet works. Should be an interesting read. Since the OP is so well informed about the subject and about the details of CCP's way to combat ISK Sellers, he may want to explain the internet in more detail please.
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lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.01.19 10:43:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiau Armchair computer expert gives a lecture to the real experts on how the internet works. Should be an interesting read. Since the OP is so well informed about the subject and about the details of CCP's way to combat ISK Sellers, he may want to explain the internet in more detail please.
I heard it's a series of tubes, c/d?
Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think?
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
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Johnette Napolitano
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Posted - 2010.01.19 10:48:00 -
[5]
You guys seem to give CCP a lot of leeway here, and yet this is the same company that overwrote the boot.ini file of peoples' computers in one of their patches.
Based on the number of accidently banned accounts the last few weeks, the OP has a valid concern.
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.19 10:49:00 -
[6]
'by IPs frequently used by hackers'
Op, you know what that bit means?
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.19 10:54:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Johnette Napolitano You guys seem to give CCP a lot of leeway here, and yet this is the same company that overwrote the boot.ini file of peoples' computers in one of their patches.
Based on the number of accidently banned accounts the last few weeks, the OP has a valid concern.
Which accounts were accidently banned? They are banned on purpose to prevent hackers from gaining access, while not perfect, it is better than hackers getting access. The issue here is that it takes way too long before they are unbanned again.
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.19 10:59:00 -
[8]
**** me, if my account was being accessed by an IP associated with known hacking attempts I would be happy for my account to be blocked in order to protect it.
If your account is being accessed by an IP associated to hackers, would you want it left for them to take everything you've got? Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.01.19 10:59:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 11:02:15
Originally by: Sibane I have one thing to say to you CCP: ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? DO YOU EVEN ****ING UNDERSTAND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS? proxys? dynamic IPs allocation?
Yes, that's right. Dynamic IP ranges mean that, as a consumer, you could end up with pretty much any IP number series in the entire world. I mean, dividing up IP addresses into ranges and allocating these ranges, and indeed sub-ranges, to organisations and individuals would be crazy. I'm sure that the end consumer IP range is the same as those ranges available to other internet uses.
CCP probably don't reference the equivalent of a DUL before banning an address in case it is dynamically assigned and frequent to change. Yeah, they probably don't do that.
Yeah, you're completely right and bang on the money. Gold star. ---------------------- They're angry there was damage done to their ship. |
Amy Wang
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:11:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Rashmika Clavain **** me, if my account was being accessed by an IP associated with known hacking attempts I would be happy for my account to be blocked in order to protect it.
^^ this
Buddy of mine got his account protected by this IP screening and he was quite pleased. It is not that you would lose everything to a hacker if successful, but it will take time to get the stuff back and it might not be everything you lost in the end.
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Chalrynn Illyndar
Navy of Xoc Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:15:00 -
[11]
Couple hours ago a friend got a laugh about a password recovery mail he was getting thinking it was a phishing attempt just sent out as mass mail to whomever. Closer inspection revealed it was an attempt to try and get access to the account from when he tried the game 3 years ago.
We don't get to see the numbers on things, but "hackers" don't just target people using phishing emails and info gathered from people trying to buy isk from a sketchy website.
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:16:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Sibane http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1125764&page=1#3
Originally by: CCP Fallout Unfortunately, Customer Support has to take preemptive action when accounts have been accessed by IPs frequently used by hackers, even though nothing has been stolen yet
I have one thing to say to you CCP: ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? DO YOU EVEN ****ING UNDERSTAND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS? proxys? dynamic IPs allocation?
I'm no expert, but surely if a hacker has dynamic IP allocation, then the odds are that they won't regularly be using the same IP address?
If so, that's where the "IPs frequently used by hackers" bit comes in.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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CyberGh0st
Minmatar Ara Veritas
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:19:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Furb Killer
Originally by: Johnette Napolitano You guys seem to give CCP a lot of leeway here, and yet this is the same company that overwrote the boot.ini file of peoples' computers in one of their patches.
Based on the number of accidently banned accounts the last few weeks, the OP has a valid concern.
Which accounts were accidently banned? They are banned on purpose to prevent hackers from gaining access, while not perfect, it is better than hackers getting access. The issue here is that it takes way too long before they are unbanned again.
Depends, if I have to wait a few months before I get my account back I may be better of being hacked ...
http://www.mmodata.net Favorite MMO's : DAoC Pre-TOA-NF / SWG Pre-CU-NGE / EVE Online ( Pre-Dust514 ? ) |
Midge Mo'yb
Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:24:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Wacktopia Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 11:02:15
Originally by: Sibane I have one thing to say to you CCP: ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? DO YOU EVEN ****ING UNDERSTAND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS? proxys? dynamic IPs allocation?
Yes, that's right. Dynamic IP ranges mean that, as a consumer, you could end up with pretty much any IP number series in the entire world. I mean, dividing up IP addresses into ranges and allocating these ranges, and indeed sub-ranges, to organisations and individuals would be crazy. I'm sure that the end consumer IP range is the same as those ranges available to other internet uses.
CCP probably don't reference the equivalent of a DUL before banning an address in case it is dynamically assigned and frequent to change. Yeah, they probably don't do that.
Yeah, you're completely right and bang on the money. Gold star.
iirc, ISP's lease address ranges, so you could technicaly only be given an ip in your isps leased range for the area... -----------------------------------------------
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:26:00 -
[15]
WOAH!! Woah there, all this insanely complex technical information is just flying way over my head. Can someone slow down and explain this all in laymen's terms?
Seriously, it's obvious most of you are network engineers of the highest caliber. Definitely 100k+ talent. But slow it down for the rest of us. Dynamic shynamic! FoxyProxyLoxy, all this jibbermaroo has me with a headache. I'm gonna go lay down, try not to splatter any of that IQ juice my way.
I better get out of there before the traceroutes start and people start identifying 'trouble' hops.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:27:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Midge Mo'yb
Originally by: Wacktopia Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 11:02:15
Originally by: Sibane I have one thing to say to you CCP: ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? DO YOU EVEN ****ING UNDERSTAND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS? proxys? dynamic IPs allocation?
Yes, that's right. Dynamic IP ranges mean that, as a consumer, you could end up with pretty much any IP number series in the entire world. I mean, dividing up IP addresses into ranges and allocating these ranges, and indeed sub-ranges, to organisations and individuals would be crazy. I'm sure that the end consumer IP range is the same as those ranges available to other internet uses.
CCP probably don't reference the equivalent of a DUL before banning an address in case it is dynamically assigned and frequent to change. Yeah, they probably don't do that.
Yeah, you're completely right and bang on the money. Gold star.
iirc, ISP's lease address ranges, so you could technicaly only be given an ip in your isps leased range for the area...
Yeah, basically: It's extremely unlikely that an end broadband customer will be given the IP address previously used by a hacker. The hilarious irony is that hackers will probably be using hacked, non-consumer proxies to disguise their identity. ---------------------- They're angry there was damage done to their ship. |
Mr Kidd
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:29:00 -
[17]
The op has a valid concern. Banning accounts based on IP or entire subnets alone is a bad practice. It's a time consuming practice. Why isn't CCP working smarter instead of harder here?
What is more troublesome is CCP's refusal in the 7 years it has been online to provide better security measures. Random authenticators would solve 90% of the hacked account issues. For those of you that are discussing whether or not bans based on IP alone is good or bad you should be asking is there a way to provide better security and alleviate the burden upon CCP and it's customers that the level of hacking is causing. The answer to that question is unequivocally YES!!
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Steve Celeste
Caldari Overdogs
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:34:00 -
[18]
Confirming that Mr. T was banned for trying to hack the game and create a Mohawk class!
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TraininVain
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:35:00 -
[19]
Presumably they're all IPs off in some dodgy third world country somewhere.
If you're a legit customer who has been banned I suggest you get onto your ISP to do something about the guys committing crimes using their service.
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:42:00 -
[20]
Please block 0.0.0.0/0 and be done with it.
Also, someone please point to the post where CCP says they drop whole ranges of IP's compared to Fallout's statement about single IP's.
I, like others also would be quite happy with getting the account locked if it had been accessed by others before it is accessed and emptied.
/c
Secure 3rd party service |
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Caldari Citizen20090217
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:51:00 -
[21]
Aforementioned armchair network expert checking in...
My be totally up the wrong tree here but: Most ppl connect from a static location, so a fixed IP/range of IPs.
Why don't CCP log logins and the usual IP range used by an account, allowing connects from the usual IP/range but disallowing login attempts from the questionable/new IPs. There could even be a section on the accounts management page (when they get round to giving this thing a seperate pwd) showing trusted IPs/login attempts and allowing users to block/allow IPs at their discretion.
Awaiting flaming from someone who actually knows what they are talking about....
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Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
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Posted - 2010.01.19 11:55:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217 Aforementioned armchair network expert checking in...
My be totally up the wrong tree here but: Most ppl connect from a static location, so a fixed IP/range of IPs.
Why don't CCP log logins and the usual IP range used by an account, allowing connects from the usual IP/range but disallowing login attempts from the questionable/new IPs. There could even be a section on the accounts management page (when they get round to giving this thing a seperate pwd) showing trusted IPs/login attempts and allowing users to block/allow IPs at their discretion.
Awaiting flaming from someone who actually knows what they are talking about....
Welcome to years ago, I've suggested similar ideas as an option to increase account security. The reason CCP won't do it right now is most likely because people DO connect from other places than just their homes, and thus may have completly different access ranges, locking down thus wouldn't be a good thing.
But I'm all for such an OPTIONAL ADDITION to the account, so anyone who wants to can lock down to ranges or even single IP's.
Secure 3rd party service |
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Obeih
The Luftwaffle
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Posted - 2010.01.19 12:06:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Wacktopia Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 11:02:15
Originally by: Sibane I have one thing to say to you CCP: ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? DO YOU EVEN ****ING UNDERSTAND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS? proxys? dynamic IPs allocation?
Yes, that's right. Dynamic IP ranges mean that, as a consumer, you could end up with pretty much any IP number series in the entire world. I mean, dividing up IP addresses into ranges and allocating these ranges, and indeed sub-ranges, to organisations and individuals would be crazy. I'm sure that the end consumer IP range is the same as those ranges available to other internet uses.
CCP probably don't reference the equivalent of a DUL before banning an address in case it is dynamically assigned and frequent to change. Yeah, they probably don't do that.
Yeah, you're completely right and bang on the money. Gold star.
can you say ranges again? it makes me hot... |
Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.01.19 12:24:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:31:20 Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:30:29 Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:29:58
Originally by: Obeih can you say ranges again? it makes me hot...
You're cute. I like you.
Personally, I think the following would work well and could exist as an optional security setting.
1. When connecting to EVE from an IP address that has not been used on your character yet you see a message saying "you need to authenticate IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx".
2. An email will be sent to your registered email address (or SMS mobile phone) with either a link or a short confirmation code.
3. You enter the code in the EVE client and the IP is added to your 'safe' list.
4. In EVE a/c management there is a list of accepted IP's with a 'remove' option (but no add option, to prevent a would-be hacker from simple manually adding their ip).
This system would satisfy those with one or more fixed IP addresses; those with dynamically-assigned home broadband IP addresses; and those who use internet cafes.
TADAAAAHHH!! :)
Edit: Note the key addition here is to use a third part system, such as email or sms, to authenticate. So having a players username and password (ergo a/c management access at present) is not enough on it's own to enter the game from a new IP.
Also, the list valid IPs in a/c management could be partly masked to deter a hacker from IP spoofing...
???.???.123.231 [x - delete] ???.???.9.21 [x - delete]
---------------------- They're angry there was damage done to their ship. |
Caldari Citizen20090217
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Posted - 2010.01.19 12:25:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217 Aforementioned armchair network expert checking in...
My be totally up the wrong tree here but: Most ppl connect from a static location, so a fixed IP/range of IPs.
Why don't CCP log logins and the usual IP range used by an account, allowing connects from the usual IP/range but disallowing login attempts from the questionable/new IPs. There could even be a section on the accounts management page (when they get round to giving this thing a seperate pwd) showing trusted IPs/login attempts and allowing users to block/allow IPs at their discretion.
Awaiting flaming from someone who actually knows what they are talking about....
Welcome to years ago, I've suggested similar ideas as an option to increase account security. The reason CCP won't do it right now is most likely because people DO connect from other places than just their homes, and thus may have completly different access ranges, locking down thus wouldn't be a good thing.
But I'm all for such an OPTIONAL ADDITION to the account, so anyone who wants to can lock down to ranges or even single IP's.
Even highly mobile clients would be able to use the system. Player attempts to connect from new location -> server promptly logs attempt and denies access. Player logs into acount management, looks at login attempt list, ticks "trust this IP" box, logs in again, success. OK so its clunky, but only needs doing once per location, and as you say should be optional.
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Dragas Amitar
Gallente Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2010.01.19 12:32:00 -
[26]
Originally by: lollerwaffle
Originally by: Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiau Armchair computer expert gives a lecture to the real experts on how the internet works. Should be an interesting read. Since the OP is so well informed about the subject and about the details of CCP's way to combat ISK Sellers, he may want to explain the internet in more detail please.
I heard it's a series of tubes, c/d?
C. It's not a truck.
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Roger Kiyosaki
Community for Active Tax Evasion
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Posted - 2010.01.19 12:44:00 -
[27]
Op clearly read "Teh Interwebz for Dummies", he just seems so knowledgable.
I for one, totally trust his judgment in this matter.
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Rashmika Clavain
Gallente Shadows Of The Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.19 12:59:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Obeih can you say ranges again? it makes me hot...
You're cute. I like you.
Personally, I think the following would work well and could exist as an optional security setting.
1. When connecting to EVE from an IP address that has not been used on your character yet you see a message saying "you need to authenticate IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx".
2. An email will be sent to your registered email address (or SMS mobile phone) with either a link or a short confirmation code.
3. You enter the code in the EVE client and the IP is added to your 'safe' list.
4. In EVE a/c management there is a list of accepted IP's with a 'remove' option (but no add option, to prevent a would-be hacker from simple manually adding their ip).
This system would satisfy those with one or more fixed IP addresses; those with dynamically-assigned home broadband IP addresses; and those who use internet cafes.
TADAAAAHHH!! :)
Edit: Note the key addition here is to use a third part system, such as email or sms, to authenticate. So having a players username and password (ergo a/c management access at present) is not enough on it's own to enter the game from a new IP.
Also, the list valid IPs in a/c management could be partly masked to deter a hacker from IP spoofing...
???.???.123.231 [x - delete] ???.???.9.21 [x - delete]
I like this... have you popped it in Features and Ideas? Removed. Please keep your EVE signature related to your EVE persona and not that of a real life politician. Navigator |
Haramir Haleths
Caldari Nutella Bande
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Posted - 2010.01.19 13:19:00 -
[29]
I have Hacking at 4 currently. When i have it up to 5, i can join the discussion and i can use a T2 codebreaker, Jeah
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Cipher Jones
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Posted - 2010.01.19 13:40:00 -
[30]
hmm so my IP is xx.xx.xx.xx and i log into eve from it every day. One day my IP comes up as yy.yy.yy.yy and yy.yy.yy.yy is a known hacking IP.
I want my aco**** temp banned if that ever happens, and an email sent immediately, thank you CCP.
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Jeddak Tarkas
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.19 14:36:00 -
[31]
What I dont get is why CCP wont support the use of RSA securID tokens as some other MMO's do. You could easily set one up per customer so they can use it on more than one account if they have them. The seperate accounts can all still have different passwords and usernames as the securID is just an additional step before you can log in any account it is protecting.
I am sure many people would be happy to pay a small fee for the tokens if it means greater security for their accounts I know I would.
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Bal'Ayle
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Posted - 2010.01.19 14:58:00 -
[32]
yeah i would happily spend money on some form of fob verifier similar to what blizzard do for WOW, and i think CCP are genius's for thinking this up, it protects your PC from base line hackers, sure a competent hacker or thief would use a proxy address but that is a select few who are interested in profit, really profit, for the run of the mill account thief this will crimp his style and nail him to the proverbial cross of his IP address
and be honest CCP have some of the fastest response time on account support of any MMO [[based on section and severity of issue]] and im sure if your account was banned for any prolonged period of time, providing you were polite im sure as a gesture of goodwill they will probably give you back the days you lost.
remember you don't have to have an account to make a ticket =]
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.19 15:04:00 -
[33]
Waiting a month with a pre-emptively banned account is fast compared to others? They must really suck.
I dont think in the end that many people would be interested in a key generator dongle thingie, especially when we add CCPs shipping rates.
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Jeddak Tarkas
Laughing Leprechauns Corporation
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Posted - 2010.01.19 15:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Furb Killer
I dont think in the end that many people would be interested in a key generator dongle thingie, especially when we add CCPs shipping rates.
There is no need for a hardware token anymore you can setup software tokens on a mobile phone or PDA now.
Details here
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Rodj Blake
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.19 15:42:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Wacktopia Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:31:20 Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:30:29 Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:29:58
Originally by: Obeih can you say ranges again? it makes me hot...
You're cute. I like you.
Personally, I think the following would work well and could exist as an optional security setting.
1. When connecting to EVE from an IP address that has not been used on your character yet you see a message saying "you need to authenticate IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx".
2. An email will be sent to your registered email address (or SMS mobile phone) with either a link or a short confirmation code.
3. You enter the code in the EVE client and the IP is added to your 'safe' list.
4. In EVE a/c management there is a list of accepted IP's with a 'remove' option (but no add option, to prevent a would-be hacker from simple manually adding their ip).
This system would satisfy those with one or more fixed IP addresses; those with dynamically-assigned home broadband IP addresses; and those who use internet cafes.
TADAAAAHHH!! :)
Edit: Note the key addition here is to use a third part system, such as email or sms, to authenticate. So having a players username and password (ergo a/c management access at present) is not enough on it's own to enter the game from a new IP.
Also, the list valid IPs in a/c management could be partly masked to deter a hacker from IP spoofing...
???.???.123.231 [x - delete] ???.???.9.21 [x - delete]
That would work quite well, unless the hacker has also used their keylogger to get into your email.
Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
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Anthal
The Warp Squad
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Posted - 2010.01.19 16:05:00 -
[36]
Yes, most ISP's do use DHCP for their clients. However, the bigger ISP's now assign you an IP address based on your MAC address. Even if you unplug the device for weeks at a time, you'll usually get the same IP address once you reconnect everything. For those with ISP's that don't practice this, do you have a home router? Is it always on? If so, your IP address will likely never change. You actually have to go out of your way to get a new IP address these days.
That leaves a handful of options left. -You or someone else on your local network are participating in some shady practices -Your wireless network is wide open, or not locked down enough -You, by chance, did get a new IP address recently, and got unlucky
If it is the latter, I'm sure dealing with eve's support staff can get all of this handled for you. I doubt that you would have grabbed the same IP as a hacker on the /16 or whatever your area is on, but it could happen!
For the record, I actually am a network engineer for an ISP. Most of what has been said in this thread is correct, or close to it.
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Zartanic
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.01.19 16:10:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Zartanic on 19/01/2010 16:10:47
Originally by: Rodj Blake
Originally by: Wacktopia Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:31:20 Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:30:29 Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:29:58
Originally by: Obeih can you say ranges again? it makes me hot...
You're cute. I like you.
Personally, I think the following would work well and could exist as an optional security setting.
1. When connecting to EVE from an IP address that has not been used on your character yet you see a message saying "you need to authenticate IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx".
2. An email will be sent to your registered email address (or SMS mobile phone) with either a link or a short confirmation code.
3. You enter the code in the EVE client and the IP is added to your 'safe' list.
4. In EVE a/c management there is a list of accepted IP's with a 'remove' option (but no add option, to prevent a would-be hacker from simple manually adding their ip).
This system would satisfy those with one or more fixed IP addresses; those with dynamically-assigned home broadband IP addresses; and those who use internet cafes.
TADAAAAHHH!! :)
Edit: Note the key addition here is to use a third part system, such as email or sms, to authenticate. So having a players username and password (ergo a/c management access at present) is not enough on it's own to enter the game from a new IP.
Also, the list valid IPs in a/c management could be partly masked to deter a hacker from IP spoofing...
???.???.123.231 [x - delete] ???.???.9.21 [x - delete]
That would work quite well, unless the hacker has also used their keylogger to get into your email.
An issue is that some of those who are likely to get loggers are also slack enough to have the same names and PW's for email. When I was playing WOW I came across many friends hacked over the years. Most were not due to keyloggers but them using the same name and PW for every site they used, including the crappy ones which got hacked. And most of those also got their Emails compromised. A few also seemed to fall for the most obvious phishing mails, they simply could not grasp how they worked. The ones that got keyloggers always used Explorer, never heard of noscript and rarely if ever bothered to update.
The fact is nothing will stop some peoples ability to give away their personal details with the simplest of tricks. This means only a small percentage of those likely to be hacked will actually bother to buy and use a key fob or bother to use the IP option. It also means no matter what CCP do some people's incompetence will find a way to get round their efforts.
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Trebor Notlimah
Lone Star EVE Group Veni Vidi Vici
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Posted - 2010.01.19 16:26:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Trebor Notlimah on 19/01/2010 16:27:37
Well CCP created this environment. By banning the 50,000+ ISK farming accounts, they doubled/tripled the value of ISK from RMTs. Now with limited 'legitimate' ingame sources of ISK to sell at the now inflated price -- hacking accounts is more profitable as ever. And while there have some crafty little key loggers floating around, its much easier to hack someones e-mail than to implement a key logger.
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Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.01.19 16:39:00 -
[39]
We need extra measures to be made an option, a hardware based authenticator for example.
Please mark this thread, if you agree.
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Arkeladin
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Posted - 2010.01.19 17:10:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Wacktopia Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 11:02:15
Originally by: Sibane I have one thing to say to you CCP: ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? DO YOU EVEN ****ING UNDERSTAND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS? proxys? dynamic IPs allocation?
Yes, that's right. Dynamic IP ranges mean that, as a consumer, you could end up with pretty much any IP number series in the entire world. I mean, dividing up IP addresses into ranges and allocating these ranges, and indeed sub-ranges, to organisations and individuals would be crazy. I'm sure that the end consumer IP range is the same as those ranges available to other internet uses.
CCP probably don't reference the equivalent of a DUL before banning an address in case it is dynamically assigned and frequent to change. Yeah, they probably don't do that.
Yeah, you're completely right and bang on the money. Gold star.
I SERIOUSLY hope you're being sarcastic here. If so, kudos, If not, learn2internet. And yes, I've run into people who'd actually believe that
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Van PokerAlho
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Posted - 2010.01.20 11:30:00 -
[41]
yes game should have an option to allow logins from different locations, that would solve many things as most people will connect from one or two places, house and work. My understanding about this issue is around 0 but this seems to be a good way to have a better security system.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.20 13:06:00 -
[42]
I think there's a very good reason why the OP used some nameless alt to post this with, because it's ****.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service |
Cobalt Sixty
Caldari Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude
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Posted - 2010.01.21 01:11:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Johnette Napolitano You guys seem to give CCP a lot of leeway here, and yet this is the same company that overwrote the boot.ini file of peoples' computers in one of their patches.
I remember that day.
They said I was mad, MAD! - can you believe it? - for switching to Windows Vista! MUHUHAHAHA! Well I showed them ... mostly by sitting by myself in Ventrilo, wondering where everyone else had gone ...
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Isurus Paucus
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Posted - 2010.01.21 13:36:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217
Even highly mobile clients would be able to use the system. Player attempts to connect from new location -> server promptly logs attempt and denies access. Player logs into acount management, looks at login attempt list, ticks "trust this IP" box, logs in again, success. OK so its clunky, but only needs doing once per location, and as you say should be optional.
This doesn't work since anyone who could potentially log into Eve can log into your account management as well. It would need to be some sort of extra authentication step that doesn't get used very often. ie some banks require an extra password to access certain areas inside of their online banking service.
The problem, of course, is that there's always a chance that if they got one part of your info, they got it all. Travelers would be particularly vulnerable since that extra password would be typed almost as often as the normal one.
In the end, I think password-based security has its realistic limit and we're pretty much at it. Adding an extra layer just wouldn't do much for the investment involved. It's cheaper just to fix end user mistakes than implement any extra measures.
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Wacktopia
Dark Side Of The Womb
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Posted - 2010.01.21 13:40:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Arkeladin
Originally by: Wacktopia Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 11:02:15
Originally by: Sibane I have one thing to say to you CCP: ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? DO YOU EVEN ****ING UNDERSTAND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS? proxys? dynamic IPs allocation?
Yes, that's right. Dynamic IP ranges mean that, as a consumer, you could end up with pretty much any IP number series in the entire world. I mean, dividing up IP addresses into ranges and allocating these ranges, and indeed sub-ranges, to organisations and individuals would be crazy. I'm sure that the end consumer IP range is the same as those ranges available to other internet uses.
CCP probably don't reference the equivalent of a DUL before banning an address in case it is dynamically assigned and frequent to change. Yeah, they probably don't do that.
Yeah, you're completely right and bang on the money. Gold star.
I SERIOUSLY hope you're being sarcastic here. If so, kudos, If not, learn2internet. And yes, I've run into people who'd actually believe that
Your sarcasm-sense serves you well, Lord Vadar. ---------------------- They're angry there was damage done to their ship. |
Ripcha Headov
Art of War Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.01.21 13:45:00 -
[46]
I for 1 am thankful for ccp monitoring hackers IPs and banning any account they log into. I would probably of lost msot my stuff if CCP hadn't done this.
Let the CCP unholy rage continue strong!
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Valnor D'Sylvae
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:00:00 -
[47]
Now what about dynamic IPs huh? if i had to add every single IP i get assigned to into a Safe List i'd simply stop playing, most EU countries that provide ADSL use dynamic IP adresses
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seany1212
Dead poets society
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:08:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Wacktopia Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:31:20 Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:30:29 Edited by: Wacktopia on 19/01/2010 12:29:58
Originally by: Obeih can you say ranges again? it makes me hot...
You're cute. I like you.
Personally, I think the following would work well and could exist as an optional security setting.
1. When connecting to EVE from an IP address that has not been used on your character yet you see a message saying "you need to authenticate IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx".
2. An email will be sent to your registered email address (or SMS mobile phone) with either a link or a short confirmation code.
3. You enter the code in the EVE client and the IP is added to your 'safe' list.
4. In EVE a/c management there is a list of accepted IP's with a 'remove' option (but no add option, to prevent a would-be hacker from simple manually adding their ip).
This system would satisfy those with one or more fixed IP addresses; those with dynamically-assigned home broadband IP addresses; and those who use internet cafes.
TADAAAAHHH!! :)
Edit: Note the key addition here is to use a third part system, such as email or sms, to authenticate. So having a players username and password (ergo a/c management access at present) is not enough on it's own to enter the game from a new IP.
Also, the list valid IPs in a/c management could be partly masked to deter a hacker from IP spoofing...
???.???.123.231 [x - delete] ???.???.9.21 [x - delete]
I would rather not see this implemented, my ISP allocates new IP's everytime i connect so this would have to be done everyday and yes i am using a router but some people do not wish to waste energy by leaving it on for the rest of eves life.
You guys make squeeky noises when you pop, and that's enough motivation as far as I'm concerned. |
Jckruz
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:08:00 -
[49]
Being deployed to Afghanistan our local ISP uses a sattellite connection that's stepsite is in somewhere in eastern europe. WHen i first logged on to eve got insta banned. Contacted CCP and they had my accound unbanned in less then 30 minutes.
Not that big of a deal.
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Don Knots
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:12:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Anthal Yes, most ISP's do use DHCP for their clients. However, the bigger ISP's now assign you an IP address based on your MAC address. Even if you unplug the device for weeks at a time, you'll usually get the same IP address once you reconnect everything. For those with ISP's that don't practice this, do you have a home router? Is it always on? If so, your IP address will likely never change. You actually have to go out of your way to get a new IP address these days.
And here is the way to 'unblock' your blocked IP address from CCP.
All you do is re-MAC your firewall/router/NAT-PAT device, and a new IP comes down the pipe (you may have to place a phone call to reauth the MAC). Magic unban pill. For every 'security' procedure created, there is a way to get around it. Mice quickly become smarter than the mouse trap.
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Kazang
Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:21:00 -
[51]
Pro tip, don't play through public proxy's associated with or enabling illegal activity.
Kazang
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T'Amber
ships of eve
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:28:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Chribba
...Snip...
But I'm all for such an OPTIONAL ADDITION to the account, so anyone who wants to can lock down to ranges or even single IP's.
As per your suggestion this was brought to CSM4 and passed. Lets hope it goes further :)
-T'amber
SOE4:DOMINATION
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Azuse
Brotherhood of Suicidal Priests R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:30:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Chribba
Originally by: Caldari Citizen20090217 Aforementioned armchair network expert checking in...
My be totally up the wrong tree here but: Most ppl connect from a static location, so a fixed IP/range of IPs.
Why don't CCP log logins and the usual IP range used by an account, allowing connects from the usual IP/range but disallowing login attempts from the questionable/new IPs. There could even be a section on the accounts management page (when they get round to giving this thing a seperate pwd) showing trusted IPs/login attempts and allowing users to block/allow IPs at their discretion.
Awaiting flaming from someone who actually knows what they are talking about....
Welcome to years ago, I've suggested similar ideas as an option to increase account security. The reason CCP won't do it right now is most likely because people DO connect from other places than just their homes, and thus may have completly different access ranges, locking down thus wouldn't be a good thing.
But I'm all for such an OPTIONAL ADDITION to the account, so anyone who wants to can lock down to ranges or even single IP's.
This man speaks the truth
Although really, if it's true ccp is doing this it really is ignorant. For so many technical reasons it's simply absurd, but then everyone knows hackers all use the same ip, probably their own home one, every single time with absolutely no way of abusing someone else's. It's also a know fact that every eve player has a static ip and they never, ever use anything else
Many companies have over the years tried to control access to their services by ip. All have failed. Usually with the added bonus of making their customers lives more difficult and diverting resources to something they simply cannot control. Hulu is the best current example -------------------------
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John Ellsworth
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:31:00 -
[54]
Relax there Big Boy the IP's they are "pre-emptied action against are all In China or some other 3 world "hacker haven Country" so if you account got frozen because one of those jerks access "Your Account" from there Country...... then They are doing you such a favor by ..... 1. they have seen it before 2. hacker invents a crazy 3rd party program that is just So helpful you have to have it..(key logger built-in) 3.they get your information 4.they take a peek to see if you have anything of value.. 5.if you did the next time they log (its all gone and your account and characters are TRASHED) 6.Proxies out of the country .. IE Iceland .. are identifiable 7.you owe most of us an apology IMO including CCP
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Sparkinator
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:33:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Sparkinator on 21/01/2010 14:35:41
Quote: And here is the way to 'unblock' your blocked IP address from CCP.
All you do is re-MAC your firewall/router/NAT-PAT device, and a new IP comes down the pipe (you may have to place a phone call to reauth the MAC). Magic unban pill. For every 'security' procedure created, there is a way to get around it. Mice quickly become smarter than the mouse trap.
Your ISP does not keep track of you via your router...it uses your cable modem. Your router does not get the IP address, it just translates it.
Quote:
Posted - 2010.01.19 12:59:00 - [28] - Quote Report
Originally by: Obeihcan you say ranges again? it makes me hot...
You're cute. I like you.
Personally, I think the following would work well and could exist as an optional security setting.
1. When connecting to EVE from an IP address that has not been used on your character yet you see a message saying "you need to authenticate IP xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx".
2. An email will be sent to your registered email address (or SMS mobile phone) with either a link or a short confirmation code.
3. You enter the code in the EVE client and the IP is added to your 'safe' list.
4. In EVE a/c management there is a list of accepted IP's with a 'remove' option (but no add option, to prevent a would-be hacker from simple manually adding their ip).
This system would satisfy those with one or more fixed IP addresses; those with dynamically-assigned home broadband IP addresses; and those who use internet cafes.
TADAAAAHHH!! :)
Edit: Note the key addition here is to use a third part system, such as email or sms, to authenticate. So having a players username and password (ergo a/c management access at present) is not enough on it's own to enter the game from a new IP.
Also, the list valid IPs in a/c management could be partly masked to deter a hacker from IP spoofing...
Good idea, except all they need is to get into your email. If they can get into your account, considering most people use the same passwords for email and other accounts, it wouldn't be that difficult, especially if they use web-based mail with such lax security such as yahoo and gmail. If they really want to get in they would just setup spoofing sites and intercept packets, tricking many dull minded players into fake authenticating IPs.
Mac cloning and IP spoofing are not very hard, however it does cost money to use a true anon proxy service. That is really the only way you are truly anonymous on the internet, and even then you aren't. Banning an IP is really the simplest measure, it is unlikely the people hacking these accounts for profit are going to spend more money just to get into a few. The OP seems to not understand subnetting at all and think there is 1 single ISP who randomly selects a random assortment of numbers and hands it to you. If I tried to hack, and my IP got banned, that's it. I most likely would not get a new IP even with mac cloning, they know you by your cable modem.
If you managed to get a new one, lets say you bought a new modem, or DHCP eventually got around to you (it can be months or a year or more for some providers) , you are still on the same subnet. I am still on the 64.128.xxx.xxx network. They would look at that, notice someone in my city AGAIN tried hacking, and ban. Most likely, it is not my neighbor who happens to also want to hack an EVE account.
Most hacking is social engineering and server side stuff, there isn't much you can do on the client side. Contrary to what people think, ISP's and big companies like CCP do know what they are doing :P The fact the internet works is because you really aren't anonymous, if at any point you find a way to completely hide yourself you will lose all connectivity and then you wouldn't be a very good hacker, would you? --------------------------- Your neighborhood sociopath. |
Hera Ominae
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:39:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Sibane http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1125764&page=1#3
Originally by: CCP Fallout Unfortunately, Customer Support has to take preemptive action when accounts have been accessed by IPs frequently used by hackers, even though nothing has been stolen yet
I have one thing to say to you CCP: ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? DO YOU EVEN ****ING UNDERSTAND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS? proxys? dynamic IPs allocation?
Don't buy ISK. Don't use proxy to play games... LOL some dudes think they're 'lone gun men'
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Sakari Mikko
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:39:00 -
[57]
/me wonders if half of the people here even know what IP stands for.
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Helicity Boson
Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:41:00 -
[58]
Derp.
Maybe because dealing with a few "false positives" and preventing thefts is less work to deal with than cleanup after a theft.
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Sparkinator
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.01.21 14:44:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Sakari Mikko /me wonders if half of the people here even know what IP stands for.
you mean Internet Protocol, part of the TCP/IP suite? The set of Internet protocols developed and maintained by a group of international organizations who create rules and qualify new protocols?
Yea, some of us might. ;) --------------------------- Your neighborhood sociopath. |
Sakari Mikko
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Posted - 2010.01.21 15:01:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Sparkinator
Originally by: Sakari Mikko /me wonders if half of the people here even know what IP stands for.
you mean Internet Protocol, part of the TCP/IP suite? The set of Internet protocols developed and maintained by a group of international organizations who create rules and qualify new protocols?
Yea, some of us might. ;)
Originally by: Sparkinator
If I tried to hack, and my IP got banned, that's it. I most likely would not get a new IP even with mac cloning, they know you by your cable modem.
If your internet protocol were to be banned which one would you use?
Oh I get it you mean your internet protocol address.
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Sparkinator
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2010.01.21 15:29:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Sakari Mikko
Originally by: Sparkinator
Originally by: Sakari Mikko /me wonders if half of the people here even know what IP stands for.
you mean Internet Protocol, part of the TCP/IP suite? The set of Internet protocols developed and maintained by a group of international organizations who create rules and qualify new protocols?
Yea, some of us might. ;)
Originally by: Sparkinator
If I tried to hack, and my IP got banned, that's it. I most likely would not get a new IP even with mac cloning, they know you by your cable modem.
If your internet protocol were to be banned which one would you use?
Oh I get it you mean your internet protocol address.
I figured that was assumed... --------------------------- Your neighborhood sociopath. |
Roleplay
Caldari Dharma Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.21 15:30:00 -
[62]
The main reason EvE online attracts hackers like flies is that the ingame password and eve-o forum passwords are the same , and if you get one and have afew minutes you can disable the whole recovery system for passwords by changing the email linked with the account
Just take the simple step of introducing a subscription login+password and put a timer on email account changes of 24h and i guarantee there will be a huge drop in successful keylogging attempts , would take afew hours work but would save so much time and effort on ccp's part ... They are combatting this the totally wrong way
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JeffieTheClam
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Posted - 2010.01.21 15:31:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Roleplay The main reason EvE online attracts hackers like flies is that the ingame password and eve-o forum passwords are the same , and if you get one and have afew minutes you can disable the whole recovery system for passwords by changing the email linked with the account
Just take the simple step of introducing a subscription login+password and put a timer on email account changes of 24h and i guarantee there will be a huge drop in successful keylogging attempts , would take afew hours work but would save so much time and effort on ccp's part ... They are combatting this the totally wrong way
or just a CCP authenticator.
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H4rbringer
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Posted - 2010.01.21 15:33:00 -
[64]
Originally by: JeffieTheClam
Originally by: Roleplay The main reason EvE online attracts hackers like flies is that the ingame password and eve-o forum passwords are the same , and if you get one and have afew minutes you can disable the whole recovery system for passwords by changing the email linked with the account
Just take the simple step of introducing a subscription login+password and put a timer on email account changes of 24h and i guarantee there will be a huge drop in successful keylogging attempts , would take afew hours work but would save so much time and effort on ccp's part ... They are combatting this the totally wrong way
or just a CCP authenticator.
waht he said, take a leaf out of blizzards book and give people that want extra security the option.
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John Ellsworth
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Posted - 2010.01.21 15:36:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Roleplay The main reason EvE online attracts hackers like flies is that the ingame password and eve-o forum passwords are the same , and if you get one and have afew minutes you can disable the whole recovery system for passwords by changing the email linked with the account
Just take the simple step of introducing a subscription login+password and put a timer on email account changes of 24h and i guarantee there will be a huge drop in successful keylogging attempts , would take afew hours work but would save so much time and effort on ccp's part ... They are combatting this the totally wrong way
Just not true as most other game companys have a similar set up.. what is getting you is downloading the 3rd party app and then installing them to your systems.
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Roleplay
Caldari Dharma Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.21 15:44:00 -
[66]
Originally by: John Ellsworth
Originally by: Roleplay The main reason EvE online attracts hackers like flies is that the ingame password and eve-o forum passwords are the same , and if you get one and have afew minutes you can disable the whole recovery system for passwords by changing the email linked with the account
Just take the simple step of introducing a subscription login+password and put a timer on email account changes of 24h and i guarantee there will be a huge drop in successful keylogging attempts , would take afew hours work but would save so much time and effort on ccp's part ... They are combatting this the totally wrong way
Just not true as most other game companys have a similar set up.. what is getting you is downloading the 3rd party app and then installing them to your systems.
It is still the simplest solution , and this way saves resources and ****es less people off , as i said above the current system smacks of a lack of effort and can be easily changed ... to not do so makes no sense whatsoever
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Phenethylamine
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Posted - 2010.01.21 15:44:00 -
[67]
The issue of what are sometimes called "toxic IPs" is one I've seen discussed before. People are correct in stating that many residential users can be randomly assigned an IP that has been blacklisted in some form or another and nobody will care. They're SOL until they're assigned a different IP.
I once had to inhabit an IP that was used as a TOR exit node for a month, and was unable to use many IRC channels, some blog comment functions, and other services because someone who had that IP before me had run a TOR server. I was punished because some previous user did something that provided anonymizing, and because people who filter by IP use lazy, blunt instruments that don't care about dynamic IPs.
It's a sliding scale, really, between heuristics that are too easy to deceive, and ones that punish too many innocent people by being stupid and ineligant. I've never seen a good solution myself.
The real problem with most attempts at IP-filtering is that there are all sorts of methods to put IPs on a blacklist, but nobody usually bothers trying to return them to whitelists. They don't care. It takes effort to whitelist them, and isn't very visible to the end user so they don't get kudos for not cutting corners (and costs).
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Don Knots
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.21 15:53:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Sparkinator
Your ISP does not keep track of you via your router...it uses your cable modem. Your router does not get the IP address, it just translates it.
I beg to differ. My cable modem is operating in bridged mode. There is no 'translation' as you call it. The cable modem just happens to have IP addresses (see sidenote below) that is (typically) not within the same subnet as the customer network(s) occupy for management purposes and rudimentary segregation for security purposes.
When I call technical support, I am forced to remove my firewall from the equation. and When I do that, I receive a totally different IP address. I replug back my firewall and I get the same IP that I originally had.
Sidenote: It is also true that Comcast (my provider) also has one of the largest IP networks in the world. They have consumed all of the RFC1918 address space and because of that fact, they require a considerable amount of globally routable address space for their network. Although they have been using ipv6 on much of their support equipment towards ipv6 as well. It was reported (I'll google it later) that for every single digital device that comcast deploys at a home, it requires up to 3 IP addresses, and it is possible that comcast's network decisions in my market are different than the decisions in your market.
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.01.21 16:21:00 -
[69]
Edited by: Barakkus on 21/01/2010 16:27:09 If you have an IP that is banned, then release the lease on your IP and get a new one. Most of the time you will get a different one.
I use a PC with 2 nics and win 2003 server as a router/firewall. It's easy to get a new IP if your connection doesn't have a piece of hardware between you and the modem. In windows, you can release the lease on your IP by going to a command prompt and typing ipconfig /release <adapter name, or just "all">. You can attempt to get a new IP by doing ipconfig /renew <adapter name, or "all">, but many times it won't get a new IP (usually the request times out before your ISP's DHCP server issues a new address), a simple reboot will get you a new IP.
If you have a piece of hardware between you and your cable modem, you can either figure out how to release the lease on the hardware (most have a web interface for management) or call your provider and have them release it for you.
In regards to Comcast, as what happened when I switched my routing to a different PC, I had to actually release my IP from the old machine before I could get a new IP in the new machine, not sure why, kinda sucked b/c I was trying to figure out why the new machine wouldn't get an IP, so I had to plug in the old one and release the last one I had, probably something to do with the modem.
Oh, and those who are wondering, a cable modem serves as an intermediary in transmitting data. It has a demodulator takes a radio-frequency signal with information encoded in it by varying the amplitude and phase of the wave then turns it into a signal that can be processed by the analog-to-digital converter. The converter takes the signal, and turns it into a series of 0s and 1s.
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Pila Aironen
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Posted - 2010.01.21 16:26:00 -
[70]
Most likely OP is one of the hackers trying to raise whining in this forum. CCP knows wich ISP has wich sets of IP's. If they see hacking from normal ADSL address, ISP will be notified and ISP cuts that particular user from internet.
There will not be cuts like cutting of whole Telia from CCP's cluster, for example.
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Tobin Shalim
Eclipse Industrials Quantum Forge
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Posted - 2010.01.21 19:44:00 -
[71]
Here's a thought: why not use the SSL login for the forums that we currently have for client->server logins? Assuming it's possible of course. -----
Originally by: Gierling Tech III is going to be "Fully modular" until someone crams the "EW Bonus" modules together with the "8 Midslots" modules...
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Jonasan Mikio
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Posted - 2010.01.21 20:01:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Sibane http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1125764&page=1#3
Originally by: CCP Fallout Unfortunately, Customer Support has to take preemptive action when accounts have been accessed by IPs frequently used by hackers, even though nothing has been stolen yet
I have one thing to say to you CCP: ARE YOU ****ING INSANE? DO YOU EVEN ****ING UNDERSTAND HOW THE INTERNET WORKS? proxys? dynamic IPs allocation?
Wow, I love it when Arm chair IT guys seem to think they know what thye are talking about. See every ip address will resolve to whats called a subnet mask. This subnet mask is assigned by the ISP and generally does not change even though your ip address does (think of it as the way that a domain resolves to a servers ip address)
So no they are not insane, yes they understand how the internet works, and please go read a book and educate your self and then come back.
Not to mention the chances of you randomly getting the same IP addres that resolves to a known hackers address (or even location) is so insanely chance based that I bet you would win the lottery first.
So please.... pod your self now.
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Don Knots
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.22 02:15:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Tobin Shalim Here's a thought: why not use the SSL login for the forums that we currently have for client->server logins? Assuming it's possible of course.
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Druadan
YARRRDIES Inc.
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Posted - 2010.01.22 02:44:00 -
[74]
PHREAK What are you, stoned or stupid? You don't hack a bank across state lines from your house, you'll get nailed by the FBI. Where are your brains, in your ass? Don't you know anything?
CEREAL Stupid, man. It's universally stupid.
-Druadan CEO YARRRDIES Inc. |
Xipher Maddox
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Posted - 2010.01.22 03:05:00 -
[75]
Originally by: Don Knots
DO make sure that you have a NON-FREE anti-virus program running. You get what you pay for.
This I have to completely disagree with, AVG Free, MS Security Essentials, and Avast are all superior products to the bloatware that is Norton/McAffee. However, I will say that AVG is falling out of favor of many techs lately because of their growing bloat problem and annoying nagware-like update system. We're currently evaluating MS Security Essentials as an alternative, but the whole "Free is crap" thing is a load and a half. I've been running AVG for years and never had a single infection.
Also, don't forget that Viruses are only a small part of the problem, more lately the issue is Malware, which once again - free programs tend to prove superior. Right now, we're recommending Malwarebytes (http://www.malwarebytes.org) as it is one of the most effective we've seen at removing some of the more aggressive "Hijackware" like Personal Antivirus 2009.
Oh, and speaking of which, there's a perfect example of "Not free and crap" - we had a customer who DID pay for PAV2009 and was convinced that because he paid for it, that it was superior.
I just wish I could remember the term from my Econ classes that dealt with this fallacy that Higher Cost/non-Free = Better because I will scream from the highest tower what a rancid piece of *#&^ Norton and most paid AV solutions are. |
Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.01.22 05:37:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Xipher Maddox
Originally by: Don Knots
DO make sure that you have a NON-FREE anti-virus program running. You get what you pay for.
This I have to completely disagree with, AVG Free, MS Security Essentials, and Avast are all superior products to the bloatware that is Norton/McAffee. However, I will say that AVG is falling out of favor of many techs lately because of their growing bloat problem and annoying nagware-like update system. We're currently evaluating MS Security Essentials as an alternative, but the whole "Free is crap" thing is a load and a half. I've been running AVG for years and never had a single infection.
Also, don't forget that Viruses are only a small part of the problem, more lately the issue is Malware, which once again - free programs tend to prove superior. Right now, we're recommending Malwarebytes (http://www.malwarebytes.org) as it is one of the most effective we've seen at removing some of the more aggressive "Hijackware" like Personal Antivirus 2009.
Oh, and speaking of which, there's a perfect example of "Not free and crap" - we had a customer who DID pay for PAV2009 and was convinced that because he paid for it, that it was superior.
I just wish I could remember the term from my Econ classes that dealt with this fallacy that Higher Cost/non-Free = Better because I will scream from the highest tower what a rancid piece of *#&^ Norton and most paid AV solutions are.
And avg is also notorious for nerfing people's operating systems or legitimate programs with false positives, with no support to get them back up and running. At least CCP set up an 800 number to help people that had their boot.ini file nuked with their infamous patch. |
Jojo Redana
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Posted - 2010.01.22 11:24:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Don Knots
Do NOT use the same login name for eve as your character. Do NOT use the same password on your email account that you registered EVE with, as your EVE account password. DO use a program such as KeePass to keep track of your passwords. DO make sure that you have UAC turned on if you have Vista/Windows 7. DO make sure that you are logging into that machine with standard user privileges. DO make sure that Admin Approval Mode turned on for your administrator account if you do not do the above. DO make sure that you have a NON-FREE anti-virus program running. You get what you pay for. Do NOT click on links in emails. I summarily delete most of my emails. They are crap.
Great post. If people would do half of those things you listed, we could have much less hacking. |
Ellmar
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Posted - 2010.01.22 11:41:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Steve Celeste Confirming that Mr. T was banned for trying to hack the game and create a Mohawk class!
hah! |
Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.01.22 16:24:00 -
[79]
Originally by: Jonasan Mikio
Wow, I love it when Arm chair IT guys seem to think they know what thye are talking about. See every ip address will resolve to whats called a subnet mask. This subnet mask is assigned by the ISP and generally does not change even though your ip address does (think of it as the way that a domain resolves to a servers ip address)
You certainly don't.
I would leave this be, but since you're adamant on calling everyone else uneducated, let's take a look at this.
The subnet mask denotes the network portion from the host portion of the IP address. It is not blocked in and of itself, and cannot identify anything in and of itself. I'm guessing you're referring to the network address, of which your IP is derived from. There is no "resolving" taking place, that's DNS, which we are not discussing here.
I'll point you here to learn how IPs are subnetted and routed. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classless_Inter-Domain_Routing
What CCP is saying is that many accounts are being accessed by the same IP addresses. They may see 20 accounts accessed by a single IP one day, block that IP, and then another 50 accounts accessed by another IP. They're well aware of dynamic IPs, so blocking an IP used by a hacker one day could be used by a player the next, preventing him from logging on. You could block the entire network, and all of the hackers on it, but catch a lot of players in the process (to say nothing of workarounds such as proxying services.)
So in short, blacklisting IP addresses really isn't a fix, especially against a determined attacker. The best you can do is spot trends. If you see an account that you know is usually accessed from the UK and one day is suddenly accessed from the U.S., from a network from which you've watched a large number of hacking attempts originate, then you can guess with a reasonable degree of certainity that the account in question is the target of a hijacking attempt. Since blocking the IP is only a temporary measure at best, and the risks of blocking legitimate users is high, you lock the account. The fallout is limited to one user, and at least his stuff is safe.
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.01.22 16:58:00 -
[80]
Originally by: Xipher Maddox We're currently evaluating MS Security Essentials as an alternative, but the whole "Free is crap" thing is a load and a half. I've been running AVG for years and never had a single infection.
Security Essentials scored pretty high. AV-Comparatives ranked them pretty decently as well, which was a big turn around from the turd that was OneCare.
I'm currently have a few Kaspersky licenses for my systems, but removed them and installed Essentials a few months ago. It's easier on the system and much less intrusive (Kaspersky plays havoc with my backup and copy apps, as it locks and scans files whenever they're accessed; I find myself having to disable it a lot.)
That's not to say some of the others are bad, but as PC World noted, for the level of performance Essentials delivers, there's no reason to be paying for AV/malware coverage anymore.
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Don Knots
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.22 22:58:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Xipher Maddox
Originally by: Don Knots
DO make sure that you have a NON-FREE anti-virus program running. You get what you pay for.
This I have to completely disagree with, AVG Free, MS Security Essentials, and Avast are all superior products to the bloatware that is Norton/McAffee. However, I will say that AVG is falling out of favor of many techs lately because of their growing bloat problem and annoying nagware-like update system. We're currently evaluating MS Security Essentials as an alternative, but the whole "Free is crap" thing is a load and a half. I've been running AVG for years and never had a single infection.
Also, don't forget that Viruses are only a small part of the problem, more lately the issue is Malware, which once again - free programs tend to prove superior. Right now, we're recommending Malwarebytes (http://www.malwarebytes.org) as it is one of the most effective we've seen at removing some of the more aggressive "Hijackware" like Personal Antivirus 2009.
Oh, and speaking of which, there's a perfect example of "Not free and crap" - we had a customer who DID pay for PAV2009 and was convinced that because he paid for it, that it was superior.
I just wish I could remember the term from my Econ classes that dealt with this fallacy that Higher Cost/non-Free = Better because I will scream from the highest tower what a rancid piece of *#&^ Norton and most paid AV solutions are.
Personally, I use Kaspersky. I'm a bit torn on KAV2010, it seems to step on more of my programs, especially the remote admin tools that I use. But I am not one that is easily aggravated by my AV program coming up and knocking down legitmate programs, as I can easily allow them. And since many of my remote admin tools use many of the same functions and features that keylogers and malware can use to capture data from me, I feel doubly better that KAV is up to the job.
And yes, I will go so far as to say that my ôNON-FREEö statement is too broad of a statement and there may be tools which are free which are good.
And finally, friends never let friends install any Norton product. Period. Norton is the software geared towards the ôThis is my First PCö crowd and I found this nifty icon preinstalled by HP/Dell/Whathaveyou manufacture. NortonÆs counterpart, Symantec is OK, but if I were to deploy that software, I would need to do a serious needs analysis first to make sure that Symantec was the only product to provide competent protection given the environment.
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Barakkus
Caelestis Iudicium
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Posted - 2010.01.22 23:07:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Don Knots
Originally by: Xipher Maddox
And finally, friends never let friends install any Norton product. Period. Norton is the software geared towards the ôThis is my First PCö crowd and I found this nifty icon preinstalled by HP/Dell/Whathaveyou manufacture. NortonÆs counterpart, Symantec is OK, but if I were to deploy that software, I would need to do a serious needs analysis first to make sure that Symantec was the only product to provide competent protection given the environment.
Symantec AV enterprise edition works well. I run v10 on most of my machines (a bit out dated but works well) and put 11 on my wife's laptop since 10 won't run under vista. <3 software from work :P
Originally by: CCP Dropbear
rofl
edit: ah crap, dev account. Oh well, official rofl at you sir.
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