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StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 13:57:00 - [1] i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0...... still looks like blob warfare to me.
Ceirah Gallente Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.20 14:23:00 - [2] It is and it will continue to be.. although I guess it's easier to rent space now. [2009.12.07 20:19:26] Tylr > atlas invade WI lol [20:22:32] Bobby Atlas > well i guess we will see you guys in a few weeks [20:22:49] Captain Blaze > a few weeks? want the invasion tomorrow!
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 14:30:00 - [3] Renting im not so sure..... I'm seeing every big alliance occupy the only things that make space worth renting, the moons. I hated fighting last night rolling guns, unlockable targets, meh... these blobs are not fun. Still think it's a great game though.
Holick Caldari Solar Nexus. OWN Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.20 14:35:00 - [4] ^^^^^^why is this post in caod??? Isn't there a better place for whining about dominion patches???
Ceirah Gallente Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.20 14:36:00 - [5] Originally by: StuRyan Renting im not so sure..... I'm seeing every big alliance occupy the only things that make space worth renting, the moons. Renters never get good moons or did I get it wrong? [2009.12.07 20:19:26] Tylr > atlas invade WI lol [20:22:32] Bobby Atlas > well i guess we will see you guys in a few weeks [20:22:49] Captain Blaze > a few weeks? want the invasion tomorrow!
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 14:38:00 - [6] Seemed to be the place to write. Guess I was hoping for some discussion from the people who are involved in all these wars at the moment. In response to my "Whinning" i'm actually not i'm simply stating i thought Dominion would reduce blobs.
MAXSuicide Caldari Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.01.20 14:39:00 - [7] Edited by: MAXSuicide on 20/01/2010 14:41:17 Originally by: StuRyan i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0...... still looks like blob warfare to me. people didnt really believe it would actually change things like that did they? :/ it was wishful thinking on the part of the smaller alliances, fearmongering on the part of the larger organisations...the changes were never going to bring about a 'new order' - the players have been, and will continue to be, the driving force in 0.0. CCP cant control the minds of players and stop them from forming ever larger blobs in pursuit of their lemmingwars.
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 14:44:00 - [8] Your right i didnt think it would happen over night either. How are alliances coping with the change? In all honesty im not seeing anything different apart sov battles being longer and power blocks pretty much dictating the whole of 0.0.
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 14:59:00 - [9] Originally by: Ceirah Originally by: StuRyan Renting im not so sure..... I'm seeing every big alliance occupy the only things that make space worth renting, the moons. Renters never get good moons or did I get it wrong? LOLz - totally agree so in that aspect why rent space? Without the desire to rent space how are we going to fill 0.0 up with smaller alliances. You land yourself a money earner and its taken away by a bigger blob than yours.... so in all instance join a block or stay in empire. Just kinda defeats how dominion was advertised. Dont get me wrong though i'm still enojoying the game. Its getting "FUBAR"....
Douglas Pearce Caldari Music Martinis and Misanthropy	Posted - 2010.01.20 15:01:00 - [10] Originally by: Holick ^^^^^^why is this post in caod??? Isn't there a better place for whining about dominion patches??? because he can ----------- I disagree
Wild Rho Amarr Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.01.20 15:05:00 - [11] You'll never get the smaller individual patches of claimed space in the current situation because the game mechanics make this style of 0.0 life impractical: - Map Information The map shows who has claimed sov and where, it also flags up activity such as contesting sov. Even if you chose to not claim sov any significant activity is show on the map as a big blob of active players in space. There's no way to establish a private little empire under the radar of larger powers. - Local Old discussion but the local channel immediately gives away the presence of anyone in the system. All it takes is for a nearby power to send a single scout into the system and they can passively determine your presence in the system. Again there is no way for a group to operate under the radar of the larger power. The only realistic way for smaller independent groups to claim systems is when they can effectively hide from more powerful neighbours without their presence being heavily advertised. Until then the options are limited to joining the local blocs as members or renters or just avoiding placing any infrastructure that can be directly assaulted.
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 15:20:00 - [12] Originally by: Wild Rho You'll never get the smaller individual patches of claimed space in the current situation because the game mechanics make this style of 0.0 life impractical: - Map Information The map shows who has claimed sov and where, it also flags up activity such as contesting sov. Even if you chose to not claim sov any significant activity is show on the map as a big blob of active players in space. There's no way to establish a private little empire under the radar of larger powers. - Local Old discussion but the local channel immediately gives away the presence of anyone in the system. All it takes is for a nearby power to send a single scout into the system and they can passively determine your presence in the system. Again there is no way for a group to operate under the radar of the larger power. The only realistic way for smaller independent groups to claim systems is when they can effectively hide from more powerful neighbours without their presence being heavily advertised. Until then the options are limited to joining the local blocs as members or renters or just avoiding placing any infrastructure that can be directly assaulted. There was some discussion to remove local at one point, whats happened there? I think the thing that draws many to 0.0 is decision, the enjoyment of out whitting your enemy based on decision, which esssential is pvp. It would be very nice if one day game mechanics meant even the smallest of alliances had the chance to defend and even take space. m guessing with all the efforts centered in the North there are systems upon systems where Sov is only to moon mine, JB, or to be a nice colour on the map?
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 15:29:00 - [13] food for thought. get rid of the whole alliance feature, leave it for corps to claim space so that corps had to forge alliances? meh guess thats no go too much polotics involved in that one but on the plus side i see this mechanic giving way totargeting specific corps....lolz.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.01.20 15:35:00 - [14] Originally by: StuRyan Renting im not so sure..... I'm seeing every big alliance occupy the only things that make space worth renting, the moons. Not really. Dysprosium used to be worth 14bn a month, Promethium 11bn a month. Today they are worth barely 1.5bn a month. Even the 'big money' moon-of-the-moment, Technetium, barely pulls in 2.5bn. A useful source of income, no doubt. But just one fully upgraded system can net a very good level of income and sustain a small alliance. Making ISK the 'hard' way (mining, reacton chains, NPC'ing) is very much a part of the post-Dominion agenda. Dominion definately makes holding a small pocket of space, regardless of moons, much more worthwhilse than it ever has been. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 15:51:00 - [15] quote=Butter Dog] Originally by: StuRyan Renting im not so sure..... I'm seeing every big alliance occupy the only things that make space worth renting, the moons. Not really. Dysprosium used to be worth 14bn a month, Promethium 11bn a month. Today they are worth barely 1.5bn a month. Even the 'big money' moon-of-the-moment, Technetium, barely pulls in 2.5bn. A useful source of income, no doubt. But just one fully upgraded system can net a very good level of income and sustain a small alliance. Making ISK the 'hard' way (mining, reacton chains, NPC'ing) is very much a part of the post-Dominion agenda. Dominion definately makes holding a small pocket of space, regardless of moons, much more worthwhilse than it ever has been. Never thought of it that way really, very true moon mining has taken a huge nerf. I like that "Making ISK the hard way" know that one far too well. Also i like the barely pulls in 2.5bn - thats 10 accounts fueled lol - im sure all those Dysporisum and promethium holders are rage quiting atm. lolz. CCP must be very happy at securing our ú10 a month knowing we probably cant fork out 500m if your a true 0.0 player i.e. not a carebear.
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.01.20 15:57:00 - [16] Originally by: StuRyan i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0... Where did you get this idea from? I saw some statements from CCP that they were looking at increasing the economic carrying capacity of 0.0 so that it can support more players, and so that alliances wont need to claim as much space. Anything more than that was player inference, and uninformed and poorly thought out inference at that.
Shayleigh Snowflower Caldari DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.20 16:01:00 - [17] Originally by: StuRyan i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0...... still looks like blob warfare to me. If your corp have the manpower I am sure you can rent some systems from, well, quite a lot of aliances. Unlike before, a constallation with 3 stations (an old Sov4 constallation) can sustain a lot of people. However, keep in mind that the 3 stations a corp of say 150-200 people need to keep themselves with mining belts, anomalies, WH and plexes have a space-cost of close to 100 billion isk with the various upgrades and all. Expect that to reflect the rent. I am sure a lot of alliances would take you up on a deal to rent some space for that purpose. However, if you want to rent space with highend moons that have a net-income of 10 billion isk/month for 2 billions, you need to get back to Jita. ---
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 16:02:00 - [18] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: StuRyan i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0... Where did you get this idea from? I saw some statements from CCP that they were looking at increasing the economic carrying capacity of 0.0 so that it can support more players, and so that alliances wont need to claim as much space. Anything more than that was player inference, and uninformed and poorly thought out inference at that. It was in the dev blogs. I seem to remember a statement saying that they wanted smaller pockets of space being claimed and more polotics so that 0.0 became more of an opportunity rather than a dictatorship from th blocks. LOLZ if i drempt that one up
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 16:19:00 - [19] Originally by: Shayleigh Snowflower Originally by: StuRyan i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0...... still looks like blob warfare to me. If your corp have the manpower I am sure you can rent some systems from, well, quite a lot of aliances. Unlike before, a constallation with 3 stations (an old Sov4 constallation) can sustain a lot of people. However, keep in mind that the 3 stations a corp of say 150-200 people need to keep themselves with mining belts, anomalies, WH and plexes have a space-cost of close to 100 billion isk with the various upgrades and all. Expect that to reflect the rent. I am sure a lot of alliances would take you up on a deal to rent some space for that purpose. However, if you want to rent space with highend moons that have a net-income of 10 billion isk/month for 2 billions, you need to get back to Jita. I think thats the point im trying to make, if you dont have the man power but you've worked hard to build a corporation up whats available? renting a constellation now that speaks a mile, rent a constellation means all systems in the constellation including all the moons etc is that the general feeling?
davet517 Caldari Raata Invicti Undivided	Posted - 2010.01.20 16:24:00 - [20] Edited by: davet517 on 20/01/2010 16:26:29 Originally by: StuRyan Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: StuRyan i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0... Where did you get this idea from? I saw some statements from CCP that they were looking at increasing the economic carrying capacity of 0.0 so that it can support more players, and so that alliances wont need to claim as much space. Anything more than that was player inference, and uninformed and poorly thought out inference at that. It was in the dev blogs. I seem to remember a statement saying that they wanted smaller pockets of space being claimed and more polotics so that 0.0 became more of an opportunity rather than a dictatorship from th blocks. LOLZ if i drempt that one up You didn't dream it up. It was there, and it's working as intended (at least it is for us). We have our own little pocket of space in which we're being very successful. We kick some cash up stairs to the imperial power every month, and in return we get to occupy some great space and run it as we see fit. I don't think I've even seen an Atlas guy around our pocket for weeks. I have seen a lot of our Russian comrades, who have given us some great fights more or less non-stop, in our space and theirs. We're playing the game at the "tier" that makes sense for us, given our commitment level. At this point in my life I can't do alarm clock ops and 8 hour camps on a weeknight. I'm more than happy to pay Atlas to play the game at that level, so that we can play the game at ours. Not to come off as kissing ass or anything, but they've been great to work with so far. My understanding is that "treaties" (future patch) are going to make this Imperial Power / Regional Power relationship more explicit. I'll be interested to see how they implement it. There are a lot of things to criticize about Eve, but one thing that it does better than any other game is provide ways to play and enjoy the game whether you play 2 hours a week, or 50. ---------------- We're recruiting quality players. Check us out.
Meatball Enema Gallente No Trademark	Posted - 2010.01.20 16:24:00 - [21] Originally by: StuRyan Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: StuRyan i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0... Where did you get this idea from? I saw some statements from CCP that they were looking at increasing the economic carrying capacity of 0.0 so that it can support more players, and so that alliances wont need to claim as much space. Anything more than that was player inference, and uninformed and poorly thought out inference at that. It was in the dev blogs. I seem to remember a statement saying that they wanted smaller pockets of space being claimed and more polotics so that 0.0 became more of an opportunity rather than a dictatorship from th blocks. LOLZ if i drempt that one up They (devs) stated that they didn't want giant alliances holding empty space just for the sake of holding it (or to connect two used sections of space). They wanted to concentrate alliances into the space they actually use. The side effect of this, they hoped, was to get smaller alliances into 0.0 to occupy the spaces left by the large alliances retreating from their unused space. They also wanted to entice the alliances to drop the empty space by making it possible for them to generate active income (opposed to the passive moon income) in any system, so geography becomes less important. Any system they hold could be built up to sustain part of the alliance, and any system that was not built up / not being used would be a drain on the corp ISK. Hold too many useless systems and you'll begin to lose money each month.
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.01.20 16:32:00 - [22] Originally by: StuRyan Also i like the barely pulls in 2.5bn - thats 10 accounts fueled lol - im sure all those Dysporisum and promethium holders are rage quiting atm. lolz. CCP must be very happy at securing our ú10 a month knowing we probably cant fork out 500m if your a true 0.0 player i.e. not a carebear. My average-sized corp holds no high-end moons, and has a monthly income of about 15bn ISK a month (thats corp income, not income of individuals). Not loads, but enough for our needs, and to sustain us if we lose lots of ships or wage a prolonged campaign. We don't do mining ops. We don't have any corp-owned T2 BPO's. We're not indutry *****s. We're just creative and resourceful. It's very possible to earn a decent income in dominion without high-end moons. It was possible before, but it was annoying when one Dysprosium moon netted our monthly income for a fraction of the effort. I like Dominion very much so far. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 16:39:00 - [23] Originally by: davet517 Edited by: davet517 on 20/01/2010 16:26:29 Originally by: StuRyan Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: StuRyan i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0... Where did you get this idea from? I saw some statements from CCP that they were looking at increasing the economic carrying capacity of 0.0 so that it can support more players, and so that alliances wont need to claim as much space. Anything more than that was player inference, and uninformed and poorly thought out inference at that. It was in the dev blogs. I seem to remember a statement saying that they wanted smaller pockets of space being claimed and more polotics so that 0.0 became more of an opportunity rather than a dictatorship from th blocks. LOLZ if i drempt that one up You didn't dream it up. It was there, and it's working as intended (at least it is for us). We have our own little pocket of space in which we're being very successful. We kick some cash up stairs to the imperial power every month, and in return we get to occupy some great space and run it as we see fit. I don't think I've even seen an Atlas guy around our pocket for weeks. I have seen a lot of our Russian comrades, who have given us some great fights more or less non-stop, in our space and theirs. We're playing the game at the "tier" that makes sense for us, given our commitment level. At this point in my life I can't do alarm clock ops and 8 hour camps on a weeknight. I'm more than happy to pay Atlas to play the game at that level, so that we can play the game at ours. Not to come off as kissing ass or anything, but they've been great to work with so far. My understanding is that "treaties" (future patch) are going to make this Imperial Power / Regional Power relationship more explicit. I'll be interested to see how they implement it. There are a lot of things to criticize about Eve, but one thing that it does better than any other game is provide ways to play and enjoy the game whether you play 2 hours a week, or 50. WOW - thats the perfect gaming experience LOL....it would be nice to sign a few times a week to see your still able to dock in your station LOLz. I have to agree that this is the reason why i like eve so much.. How do you do for logistics? are you on the out skirts of empire or in the depths close to the edge of space? very true about CCP wanting the "Blocks" to occupy their systems, i dont believe the screw has turned on that one yet in my opinion. The blocks still occupy the majority of 0.0 and any attempt to own our own space would be met with a BLOB
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 16:46:00 - [24] Originally by: Butter Dog Originally by: StuRyan Also i like the barely pulls in 2.5bn - thats 10 accounts fueled lol - im sure all those Dysporisum and promethium holders are rage quiting atm. lolz. CCP must be very happy at securing our ú10 a month knowing we probably cant fork out 500m if your a true 0.0 player i.e. not a carebear. My average-sized corp holds no high-end moons, and has a monthly income of about 15bn ISK a month (thats corp income, not income of individuals). Not loads, but enough for our needs, and to sustain us if we lose lots of ships or wage a prolonged campaign. We don't do mining ops. We don't have any corp-owned T2 BPO's. We're not indutry *****s. We're just creative and resourceful. It's very possible to earn a decent income in dominion without high-end moons. It was possible before, but it was annoying when one Dysprosium moon netted our monthly income for a fraction of the effort. I like Dominion very much so far. Great post!!! and very true, 15bn a month without a high end sounds like a lot of effort...Interesting enough a quick question, high ends.....sounds to me they arent worth the title high end anymore, a more fitting "rare end" sounds better, looks like the Tec moons are the new high end but are a r32? Another question with making 15bn a month....time to pvp? Also with Atlas moving into Geminate i thought the whole "CCP wants blocks to occupy space and not just to hold them for holding sake" wonder how thats going to be achieved?
Xavieer Naidoo Gallente Capax Infiniti	Posted - 2010.01.20 16:50:00 - [25] Originally by: StuRyan i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0...... still looks like blob warfare to me. Blob warfare in EvE ? No way. All lies.
kyrieee Gallente Psykotic Meat Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.01.20 17:02:00 - [26] Half the posts in this thread are the OP's Stop double posting Also, what the guy from R&K said
StuRyan Caldari Red White and Blue DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.01.20 17:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Xavieer Naidoo Originally by: StuRyan i thought this was aimed at giving all alliances the chance to own a part of 0.0...... still looks like blob warfare to me. Blob warfare in EvE ? No way. All lies. LOLZ pictures?
Mr Macawesome Gallente Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.20 17:24:00 - [28] The problem with dominion is that it did nothing to stop the gind of sov warfare. With the massive amounts of hp on the tcu and stations, a smaller alliance can't down in a relativle decent time. The defenders have 4 times that they only need to save once while the attackers lose it all if the lose one fight. We need smaller hp objectives spread out between multiple systems that have to hit at the same time. This will force blobs to split up and give the advantage to alliances that can multitask and not the stupid dogpileing we see today Official Derek Chu fanatic
Butter Dog Gallente The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2010.01.20 17:28:00 - [29] Originally by: StuRyan Another question with making 15bn a month....time to pvp? I would estimate we spend less than 10% of our time on money-making activity, so definately. ---------- ~bitter dog~ etc
MAXSuicide Caldari Fairlight Corp Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.01.20 17:44:00 - [30] Edited by: MAXSuicide on 20/01/2010 17:49:01 Originally by: Wild Rho The only realistic way for smaller independent groups to claim systems is when they can effectively hide from more powerful neighbours without their presence being heavily advertised. Until then the options are limited to joining the local blocs as members or renters or just avoiding placing any infrastructure that can be directly assaulted. that or the powerblocs need some cutting back. Go back to early days of eve when others would stay out of conflicts that had nothing to do with them. Unfortunately most alliances have no confidence in their own capabilities. Or just get it over with and merge together ur mass of alliances already! Originally by: Mr Macawesome The problem with dominion is that it did nothing to stop the gind of sov warfare. With the massive amounts of hp on the tcu and stations, a smaller alliance can't down in a relativle decent time. The defenders have 4 times that they only need to save once while the attackers lose it all if the lose one fight. We need smaller hp objectives spread out between multiple systems that have to hit at the same time. This will force blobs to split up and give the advantage to alliances that can multitask and not the stupid dogpileing we see today indeed the blobs have no need to split into multiple pieces atm and their fear of the enemy blob only makes it larger and larger.. ur idea has some credibility in forcing the issue at hand by splitting the blobs apart and making for more battles and probably more fun as a result - and on top of that more strategy than simply piling a thousand guys into a system.

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