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Sol ExAstris
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Posted - 2010.01.20 17:01:00 -
[1]
So I got scammed on the market. It happens when you aren't paying attention.
Anyways, I have a suggestion for the market that might help eliminate this sort of abuse of the market in the future.
The way this scammer succeeded was to buy out the entire region of the item, then relist all of the items for far more than they are worth. Thus when someone goes to buy it, not only do they not see the unusually large number of 0's behind the initial numbers but the market also fails to warn them that they are buying something that is above average in price because the entire region's average price has been jacked up beyond recognition.
Thus the two major saftey's that normally prevent (at least me) from buying overpriced items on the market failed because of the type of market manipulation involved.
Frankly, I find this abusive for a few reasons. 1. It bypassess failsafes meant to give the players reasonable warning against out-of-the-ordinary prices. 2. It forces people who legitimately want the item to travel to another region to aquire it.
A solution I propose to help avoid this annoying tactic, which skirts within the rules of the game mechanics but obviously flies in the face of CCP's intentions as normal market conditions would yield failsafes against this sort of abuse and contracts have been changed specifically to make scams less difficult to spot, would be to tag items in eve with an unseen "reasonable" value. Of course, no item actually has such a thing in a fluid market, but it also known that items have a reasonable range of prices for which they can be built and sold in a competative market (i.e. not one that has been bought out and relisted) and venturing too far from those numbers should throw up an additional warning with a 'proceed' or 'abort' option.
In particular, I would recommend that if any item in the market is being purchased for 10x what the "tagged" value is, then an additional warning should pop up to the purchaser just in case the local regional market has been screwed up in order to bypass the normal safteys.
Again, the tagged value is not something anyone but the devs ever need to see and will not effect gameplay in any other way other than to trigger this warning under extreme circumstances.
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GavinCapacitor
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Posted - 2010.01.20 17:27:00 -
[2]
You got scammed because you were being/still are stupid. In this case its not even really scamming but just some market manipulation. Buyer Beware, as they say.
Originally by: Sol ExAstris but obviously flies in the face of CCP's intentions as normal market conditions
And you are omniscient? Know what the collective overall opinion of everyone at CCP right? Because that is the only way I could see you making that statement.
PS: Look up "Base Value".
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Tig
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Posted - 2010.01.20 17:37:00 -
[3]
OMG this is might sound like a C&P response but i will risk it. This is not wow we do not want the game dumbed down to that point. Two safe guards you may not of looked at, similar items to what you bought and the prices of your item in market history. The game does not need a YO dummy button. It needs people to be responsible for their own decisions and to use the some common sense and take a minute before you act.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.01.20 17:43:00 -
[4]
first i have to agree. use your brain.
and now to the best things: there are already options you can configure that will filter out orders that exceed a certain range of overpriced. which would protect you from your own inability to use your brain.
good thing for the scammers is that you need to use the brain to find the option and configure them properly. and we are back to the base problem.
but i dont want to be a total a**. check market window -> settings. hope this helps.
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Sol ExAstris
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Posted - 2010.01.20 18:50:00 -
[5]
Thusfar the responses have failed to understand the problem.
Using the in game's market deviation settings will not help because the entire region's prices were altered with appropriate deviations implimented to make it look legitimate.
The market already gives you a warning about items that are overpriced, but it only does so relative to the regional market. When someone messes up the entire regional market, then the intended warnings do not work. The suggested implimentation would provide a warning only when the already implimented and intended failsafes are circumvented by altering the regional average.
This is not dumbing the game down, its simply insuring that players are afforded an actual warning before purchase, which is precisely what the current system is intended to do but is failing to in this case due to the nature of the current implimentation.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.01.20 18:56:00 -
[6]
1. scamming is valid game play in EVE
2. you suggest making market scamming impossible
3. for many areas (backwater highsec, lowsec, 0.0) higher price mean you pay for the effort of someone bringing stuff out there. and if a shuttle in your lowsec area costs 1-2m it might be still cheap compared to e.g. loosing your pod.
4. many traders do live from hauling stuff in less popular areas and selling it there. thats why we have regional markets. to give them a niche to fill.
it is not their fault you bought the stuff. there is a dialog shown to you before the transaction completed and you clicked ok. yes you got scammed out of your money. get over it. work on getting it back.
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WarlockX
Amarr Free Trade Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.20 20:00:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Sol ExAstris Thusfar the responses have failed to understand the problem.
Using the in game's market deviation settings will not help because the entire region's prices were altered with appropriate deviations implimented to make it look legitimate.
The market already gives you a warning about items that are overpriced, but it only does so relative to the regional market. When someone messes up the entire regional market, then the intended warnings do not work. The suggested implimentation would provide a warning only when the already implimented and intended failsafes are circumvented by altering the regional average.
This is not dumbing the game down, its simply insuring that players are afforded an actual warning before purchase, which is precisely what the current system is intended to do but is failing to in this case due to the nature of the current implimentation.
but what happens when the item price goes up legitamately. Maybe this month its worth 10x more, or 10x less.
Either way it's not a problem because you got out smarted.
The current system is setup to let the smarter of the players win, either in pvp, market, scamming ect. And that's the way it should be. There should be no fail safes for stupidity just like real life. CCP created a universe where its possible to be outsmarted that what makes eve a great game. It's like this on purpose nothing needs to be fixed or changed, it's perfect from our view and CCP's view. ----------------------------------------------- Free Trade Corp - Flash page
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Arcmako
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Posted - 2010.01.20 22:44:00 -
[8]
Fix scamming and stupid 0.01 ISK games by requiring FULL payment of Broker's Fees every time you adjust the price, just as if you were setting up the order for the first time.
Simple.
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Sol ExAstris
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Posted - 2010.01.21 16:23:00 -
[9]
Still seems like several of the responses haven't gotten past the first 4 words of the op and think this is a whine thread. Perhaps the second sentence was not clear enough in explaining that it is not.
That was just the incident that made me aware of this issue. The market already attempts to warn you against ridiculous prices, I'm only suggesting a patch to that system so that the intended warning still works when region-wide orders have been manipulated. You can base the second check off of base value or perhaps the eve-wide averages, either way, this warning would only appear if the standard warning failed due to this particular scenario and only if you have not disabled it. Furthermore, it won't prevent you from buying anything as it would appear exactly as the current warning does when the regional market is normalized. So the concerns over the million isk shuttles are moot. It just asks if you're sure you want to buy it (which it might already do anyways if the region in question has alot of other shuttles at normal prices in locations you just can't get to atm, in which case this warning wouldn't appear because you've already gotten yours).
Thats it. This change will not even go noticed to 95% of the player base, and it does not change gameplay in any way except to ensure the already present warning works under these extreme conditions.
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mundus123
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Posted - 2010.01.21 16:33:00 -
[10]
Ok you dont seem to understand the concept of market PvP, you were a nub so you failed.
Now for the market average, thats garbage, there does not need to be any fail safe beyond you. You should know what the usual selling price of most items your buying are and thats your failsafe. Besides that you should go and check other regions. If you dont then you deserve to be scammed because your lazy.
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mchief117
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Posted - 2010.01.21 16:37:00 -
[11]
OK so if i get this right you want a way to make sure that if item X is worth 10M isk today and then player Y buys all of them and then resells for 30M isk that the market will tell you that 2 days ago this item was worth 10M isk.
I duno , personally i never use the starting up market window i always go to the show me how much is at what station where screen and that generally gives you the price and that of anything in the region. if something looks suspicious i generally go to www.eve-central.com and check the jita prices.
unfortunately for you eve is not a WOW clone , it actively promotes piracy and generally mayhem on a grand scale. if your buying on the market enough you should learn to check more than just the price first posted before you buy or expect to pay more than is normally required. take your time learn from this mistack and avoid it in the future
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Magnus Orin
Minmatar United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity
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Posted - 2010.01.21 18:02:00 -
[12]
Dumb idea is dumb.
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Regat Kozovv
Caldari Alcothology
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Posted - 2010.01.21 18:07:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sol ExAstris flies in the face of CCP's intentions
CCP's devs have stated prior that they consider the market to be another form of PvP.
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Grarr Dexx
Amarr GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.01.21 18:16:00 -
[14]
Quote: So I got scammed on the market. It happens when you aren't paying attention.
Pay attention next time? CCP doesn't need to change things because you're lazy. ___
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