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Bootleg Jack Potters Field 146	Posted - 2012.06.25 18:24:00 - [31] - Quote Because probes have not been invented yet... I'm an American, English is my second language...
Ptraci 3 R Corporation The Irukandji 548	Posted - 2012.06.25 18:27:00 - [32] - Quote Bootleg Jack wrote: Because probes have not been invented yet... Confirming that probes don't show up on dscan.
Ziranda Hakuli Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens 111	Posted - 2012.06.25 18:29:00 - [33] - Quote ElQuirko wrote: This idea is brand new and has never been suggested before. Bravo, you win +1 nobel prizes. Not sure what rock you lived under but it has been mentioned multiple times. so countless you can take the time to dig for the thread on this
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 1365	Posted - 2012.06.25 18:30:00 - [34] - Quote Bootleg Jack wrote: Because probes have not been invented yet... But once you launched a probe, the element of surprise would have been lost and the ratter would immediately dock up, putting you back where you were before. Just kidding, everyone willing to mash d-scan every 2 seconds would have moved to wormholes to make 3x as much money with less effort and everyone who isn't would have moved on to highsec to make the same amount of isk in l4s or incursions.
Ptraci 3 R Corporation The Irukandji 548	Posted - 2012.06.25 18:35:00 - [35] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Bootleg Jack wrote: Because probes have not been invented yet... But once you launched a probe, the element of surprise would have been lost and the ratter would immediately dock up, putting you back where you were before. No, it would be worse, because all I have to do is sit a cloaky alt on the gate, which you will never be able to see since he's not in local either. Then I can be gone before you ever realized that I was there. These suggestions are made by people who fail at EVE. It's not our fault you can't play the game. Ratters and miners get caught all the time. Maybe what you REALLY want is for the gate to drop you straight on the grid of anyone ratting or mining, right?
Laktos Gunpoint Diplomacy 146	Posted - 2012.06.25 18:39:00 - [36] - Quote Increase risk, ** up bots, more things exploding, more dynamic environment and intel harder to get therefore of more advantage to the person putting in the effort to get it. This would obviously ** up EVE~ Latest PVP Video: Perseverance Sard Caid does not endorse this message.
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1117	Posted - 2012.06.25 18:42:00 - [37] - Quote Ptraci wrote: No, it would be worse, because all I have to do is sit a cloaky alt on the gate, which you will never be able to see since he's not in local either. Then I can be gone before you ever realized that I was there. These suggestions are made by people who fail at EVE. It's not our fault you can't play the game. Ratters and miners get caught all the time. Maybe what you REALLY want is for the gate to drop you straight on the grid of anyone ratting or mining, right? Sounds like fun. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
czMulti Posthuman Society Elysian Empire 13	Posted - 2012.06.25 18:55:00 - [38] - Quote Laktos wrote: Increase risk, ** up bots, more things exploding, more dynamic environment and intel harder to get therefore of more advantage to the person putting in the effort to get it. This would obviously ** up EVE~ somebody said wh space?
Bootleg Jack Potters Field 146	Posted - 2012.06.25 18:58:00 - [39] - Quote Ptraci wrote: Bootleg Jack wrote: Because probes have not been invented yet... Confirming that probes don't show up on dscan. He has to press the button, they call it effort, there could even be a device, that takes a slot, that works better. This is how EvE is supposed to work. You forget this is allready worked out, all of this is used every day in WH space. I'm an American, English is my second language...
Lucy Ferrr Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic 77	Posted - 2012.06.25 19:03:00 - [40] - Quote Ephenos wrote: 2: The people I enjoy shooting more, specifically other gangs that shoot back, wont have the isk to be able to casually throw ships in from of my gang if they cant make money easily. TLDR: Leave the nullbears alone, I want to have someone to shoot, and if they spent 75% of their time on their highsec alt making chump change, they are not throwing their pvp mains at me. You make a valid point. My argument is having local as infallible intel it cheapens those fights with gangs you like so much. Instead of using scouts and tactics, you can just keep a -1/+1 (one system behind the fleet, one ahead) with semi-afk alts and just watch local. Gathering intel on enemy fleets should not be done with a quasi-afk, zero SP alt IMO. I think gathering intel on the enemy should take skill, and not just be a freebie. So maybe delayed local is not the best solution to the problem of local intel, but it is a huge improvement over what we have now.
Alaya Carrier Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 7	Posted - 2012.06.25 19:11:00 - [41] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Bootleg Jack wrote: Because probes have not been invented yet... But once you launched a probe, the element of surprise would have been lost and the ratter would immediately dock up, putting you back where you were before. Just kidding, everyone willing to mash d-scan every 2 seconds would have moved to wormholes to make 3x as much money with less effort and everyone who isn't would have moved on to highsec to make the same amount of isk in l4s or incursions. Null bears said hi sec miners (the lowest income in game) have to spam d-scan and be aligned. But wait, they won't want to use their own medicine. How fitting, eh?
baltec1 1552	Posted - 2012.06.25 19:13:00 - [42] - Quote Alaya Carrier wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Bootleg Jack wrote: Because probes have not been invented yet... But once you launched a probe, the element of surprise would have been lost and the ratter would immediately dock up, putting you back where you were before. Just kidding, everyone willing to mash d-scan every 2 seconds would have moved to wormholes to make 3x as much money with less effort and everyone who isn't would have moved on to highsec to make the same amount of isk in l4s or incursions. Null bears said hi sec miners (the lowest income in game) have to spam d-scan and be aligned. But wait, they won't want to use their own medicine. How fitting, eh? I would rather keep local. It means I can pvp while being AFK.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 1365	Posted - 2012.06.25 19:19:00 - [43] - Quote Bootleg Jack wrote: You forget this is allready worked out, all of this is used every day in WH space. Statistically wh space has less deaths per capita then 0.0 sov space, so that's arguable.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 1365	Posted - 2012.06.25 19:20:00 - [44] - Quote Alaya Carrier wrote: Null bears said hi sec miners (the lowest income in game) have to spam d-scan and be aligned. But wait, they won't want to use their own medicine. How fitting, eh? Nah, all hi sec miners have to do is fit tanks instead of expanded cargoholds and MLUs. Only highsec miners feel entitled to failfit their ships hth
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 306	Posted - 2012.06.25 19:31:00 - [45] - Quote Bootleg Jack wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Removing local would be stupid, because then all alliances would have to do is invest some small amount of money on alts to stay camped, cloaked, on gates in specific systems and watch for people coming and going. The end result would be almost exactly the same as it is now. That doesnt sound exactly the same at all to me, it sounds like people having to put forth effort to get intel. It requires little effort apart from, you know, requiring alt accounts for this singular purpose. Which is why it's stupid. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. (Link was wrong, now fixed)
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 83	Posted - 2012.06.25 20:08:00 - [46] - Quote It is funny that people only look at the "cost" of the intel, calling it "free", but don't factor in the quality of the intel that local provides. All local tells you is that some one is in the system. Doesn't say what they are flying, where they are at, if they are in a fleet, etc. And like typical whiners, all they are thinking about is how easy it would be to ambush players. Totally forgetting that their targets might just do a cost/benefit analysis, and go off to wormholes where the rewards are better and the risk is less (no local, but no cynos, can close the entrances). Or take a possibly lower reward for lower risk in highsec missions or lowsec faction warfare. And highsec also has the benefit of having the best markets, so even if you do get ganked you can reship for cheaper. Speaking as some one who lives full time in nullsec, I'll leave if a hamfisted no-local was implemented. Less risk and way better return in wormholes or way less risk for almost as good reward in high/lowsec. The only time I would do anything in nullsec would be in "blobs", because there is safety in numbers. So go ahead an remove local. I, and many others, will go make isk somewhere else, and if you guys find anyone in nullsec, they'll be in a big fleet and you can move on to crying on the forums about how unfair "blobs" are, and start scheming to nerf those.
Suqq Madiq Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 88	Posted - 2012.06.25 20:16:00 - [47] - Quote Womyn Power wrote: ElQuirko wrote: This idea is brand new and has never been suggested before. Bravo, you win +1 nobel prizes. It hasn't been changed, no thread on the front page about it, why not keep one up until it gets changed? Because it's a terrible idea and will never be changed. You want to remove local? Move into a WH.
Bootleg Jack Potters Field 146	Posted - 2012.06.25 20:36:00 - [48] - Quote Alaya Carrier wrote: Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: Bootleg Jack wrote: Because probes have not been invented yet... But once you launched a probe, the element of surprise would have been lost and the ratter would immediately dock up, putting you back where you were before. Just kidding, everyone willing to mash d-scan every 2 seconds would have moved to wormholes to make 3x as much money with less effort and everyone who isn't would have moved on to highsec to make the same amount of isk in l4s or incursions. Null bears said hi sec miners (the lowest income in game) have to spam d-scan and be aligned. But wait, they won't want to use their own medicine. How fitting, eh? The medicine only tastes like **** if you have to take it yourself... I'm an American, English is my second language...
Bootleg Jack Potters Field 146	Posted - 2012.06.25 20:39:00 - [49] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: Bootleg Jack wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Removing local would be stupid, because then all alliances would have to do is invest some small amount of money on alts to stay camped, cloaked, on gates in specific systems and watch for people coming and going. The end result would be almost exactly the same as it is now. That doesnt sound exactly the same at all to me, it sounds like people having to put forth effort to get intel. It requires little effort apart from, you know, requiring alt accounts for this singular purpose. Which is why it's stupid. cyno alts, forum alts, miner alts, mission alts, exploration alts, PvP alts, PvE alts, hauler alts wait I'm an American, English is my second language...
Sentamon Imperial Academy Amarr Empire 2	Posted - 2012.06.25 20:52:00 - [50] - Quote What we need here is a legion of AFK cloakers to scare away the nullbears.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 1366	Posted - 2012.06.25 20:56:00 - [51] - Quote yeah I'm gonna consider this debate over until if/when WomynPower comes back
James Amril-Kesh 4S Corporation RAZOR Alliance 306	Posted - 2012.06.25 21:08:00 - [52] - Quote Bootleg Jack wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Bootleg Jack wrote: James Amril-Kesh wrote: Removing local would be stupid, because then all alliances would have to do is invest some small amount of money on alts to stay camped, cloaked, on gates in specific systems and watch for people coming and going. The end result would be almost exactly the same as it is now. That doesnt sound exactly the same at all to me, it sounds like people having to put forth effort to get intel. It requires little effort apart from, you know, requiring alt accounts for this singular purpose. Which is why it's stupid. cyno alts, forum alts, miner alts, mission alts, exploration alts, PvP alts, PvE alts, hauler alts wait Cyno alt is a bit ridiculous but it's done for convenience rather than anything else. The rest of these are done because skill training requires specialization if you want to get decent at anything within a reasonable amount of time. Again, making alternate accounts just to sit on gates cloaked for intel is absolutely ridiculous, but it's what people will be forced to do if you remove local in 0.0. Either that or they'll just leave en masse, which is probably more likely. Support showing T2 and faction frequency crystal damage in the info window. (Link was wrong, now fixed)
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1117	Posted - 2012.06.25 21:09:00 - [53] - Quote Sentamon wrote: What we need here is a legion of AFK cloakers to scare away the nullbears. Yep. Go forth, cloak and go away from your keyboard ! Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm
Scatim Helicon GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 544	Posted - 2012.06.25 21:31:00 - [54] - Quote No local works nicely in wormspace because of no cynos, no supercaps, no static entry/exit points, and mass limits. No local would work terribly in 0.0 because it has none of those features in common. Titans were never meant to be "cost effective", its a huge **.-á- CCP Oveur, 2006 ~If you want a picture of the future of WiS, imagine a spaceship, stamping on an avatar's face. Forever.
Ptraci 3 R Corporation The Irukandji 548	Posted - 2012.06.25 21:32:00 - [55] - Quote James Amril-Kesh wrote: It requires little effort apart from, you know, requiring alt accounts for this singular purpose. Which is why it's stupid. Yeah most people only have the one account.
SmilingVagrant GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 473	Posted - 2012.06.25 21:39:00 - [56] - Quote I'd have no problem with local delays provided there was a mechanic that allowed alliances to trim them down with upgradable mods. But realistically ratters aren't all that hard to catch. What's hard to catch is damn bots.
Marconus Orion Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 128	Posted - 2012.06.25 21:41:00 - [57] - Quote I have a serious question. I see a lot of 'risk vs. reward is better in high sec' used a lot. What ratio should it be where living in null is worth the risk of no local in the game? Granted this is assuming other changes were to happen like fixing null industry and market to name a couple.
Peter Raptor Plutonian Army 253	Posted - 2012.06.25 21:46:00 - [58] - Quote Local is the ONLY thing that saves the server from processing a a Billion Trillion Dscan clicks by Tens of Thousands of players in Eve, Every Second of Every Day of the Year. What a laughing stock of the MMO world would we be if that happened Evelopedia;-á The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á
Marconus Orion Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 128	Posted - 2012.06.25 21:49:00 - [59] - Quote Peter Raptor wrote: Local is the ONLY thing that saves the server from processing a a Billion Trillion Dscan clicks by Tens of Thousands of players in Eve, Every Second of Every Day of the Year. What a laughing stock of the MMO world would we be if that happened Confirming that removing local would mean the directional scanner would not be iterated on at the same time.
Peter Raptor Plutonian Army 253	Posted - 2012.06.25 21:58:00 - [60] - Quote Marconus Orion wrote: Peter Raptor wrote: Local is the ONLY thing that saves the server from processing a a Billion Trillion Dscan clicks by Tens of Thousands of players in Eve, Every Second of Every Day of the Year. What a laughing stock of the MMO world would we be if that happened Confirming that removing local would mean the directional scanner would not be iterated on at the same time. Well lets see some ideas on that then, instead of "Just remove Local". I do suspect though, that dscan improvements will be such, that we will end up having "Local" anyway, just under a different name. And what a waste of Dev time and money that'll end up being Time will tell. Evelopedia;-á The Amarr Empire, is known for its omnipresent religion -áGÇá-á-á

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