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Alater Caedo	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:32:00 - [1] Edited by: Alater Caedo on 25/01/2010 04:33:03 it's lulzy. Also, if I want to invest in something and haven't posted on MD before, who are you all to call me out about my investments? get lives etc. virtual money does crazy things to people.
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:35:00 - [2] We call you out because we're holding the isk? If you can't handle the question or the flaming, then look elsewhere Closed until further notice
ThaDollaGenerale The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:38:00 - [3] Originally by: Brock Nelson We call you out because we're holding the isk? If you can't handle the question or the flaming, then look elsewhere How does one hold the isk if their accounts have been cleaned out and banned?
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:40:00 - [4] Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Originally by: Brock Nelson We call you out because we're holding the isk? If you can't handle the question or the flaming, then look elsewhere How does one hold the isk if their accounts have been cleaned out and banned? That's not the point Closed until further notice
Alater Caedo	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:41:00 - [5] Edited by: Alater Caedo on 25/01/2010 04:45:32 .. you're misunderstanding my point, I've seen plenty of people get *****ed at on the grounds of "never posting on MD" or "BEING AN ALT!!!!1ONEONE!" If someone wants to put money in to an investment and is new to the game (that is, the market game) people find it necessary to butt in and ostracize people, and by doing so potentially alienating investors. My shares or buy in on an investment are worth just as much as someone who has posted on MD 14,000 times. edit: everyone activate your thermic hardeners, I'm bracing for some FLAME......
Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:47:00 - [6] I mis-read, my apologizes. To what thread did you get flamed on? Seems strange that someone who wants to invest gets flamed on. Closed until further notice
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Holdings	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:50:00 - [7] Originally by: Alater Caedo Edited by: Alater Caedo on 25/01/2010 04:42:58 .. you're misunderstanding my point, I've seen plenty of people get *****ed at on the grounds of "never posting on MD" or "BEING AN ALT!!!!1ONEONE!" If someone wants to put money in to an investment and is new to the game (that is, the market game) people find it necessary to butt in and ostracize people, and by doing so potentially alienating investors. My shares or buy in on an investment are worth just as much as someone who has posted on MD 14,000 times. I agree, especially because a lot of big genuine investors do use alts to invest. However, scammers also use alts to pump up their offers. It's a fine line, and usually more a matter of timing than anything. It would be great if scammers didn't abuse the alt system, and also great if we were perfect at identifying their efforts. If you have some input as to how we can better distinguish the scam alts, please share. As is, we do the best we can, and I'd rather miscall genuine investors than ignore the intuitive strength of identifying scams through suspicious alt-posting.
Throckbane	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:51:00 - [8] Alater Caedo, there is a simple solution to this problem. You can fight against the snoobby elites by investing in those poor helpless people who can't get loans.
RaWBLooD	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:51:00 - [9] Hi I am going to block people and say they were being an ***** whenever they are right, since obviously anyone talking about correct information is being an ***** by showing me evidence. Just kidding, come to Freeport's 12 bar and you won't have to deal with elitism. miners-you can: switch, rob, wardec, nerf, scam them, buy below market, pirate them on their way to sell. mining < trading, ratting, manufacturing from market bought minerals,they still wont go away
Alater Caedo	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Brock Nelson I mis-read, my apologizes. To what thread did you get flamed on? Seems strange that someone who wants to invest gets flamed on. None in particular, I (and I'm sure there are a few others out there who would agree) would just be glad if everyone in MD were not so suspicious. We're all in it to make ISK aye? I can understand if a scam is possible in a situation or whatever. But there are multiple examples of what I'm talking about on page 1 of ED, just read through some threads. tl;dr: don't rip every new investor a new ******* to go along with it

Brock Nelson Caldari Flux Technologies Inc SRS.	Posted - 2010.01.25 04:57:00 - [11] Originally by: Alater Caedo Originally by: Brock Nelson I mis-read, my apologizes. To what thread did you get flamed on? Seems strange that someone who wants to invest gets flamed on. None in particular, I (and I'm sure there are a few others out there who would agree) would just be glad if everyone in MD were not so suspicious. We're all in it to make ISK aye? I can understand if a scam is possible in a situation or whatever. But there are multiple examples of what I'm talking about on page 1 of ED, just read through some threads. tl;dr: don't rip every new investor a new ***** to go along with it I don't rip new investors a new one, in fact I encourage them to get more involved with investment. It's just those who are just getting their feet wet as IPO or bond manager that can't handle the flaming mainly because they don't realize that its us that they're asking isk from. Closed until further notice**
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.01.25 05:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Alater Caedo Edited by: Alater Caedo on 25/01/2010 04:45:32 .. you're misunderstanding my point, I've seen plenty of people get *****ed at on the grounds of "never posting on MD" or "BEING AN ALT!!!!1ONEONE!" If someone wants to put money in to an investment and is new to the game (that is, the market game) people find it necessary to butt in and ostracize people, and by doing so potentially alienating investors. My shares or buy in on an investment are worth just as much as someone who has posted on MD 14,000 times. edit: everyone activate your thermic hardeners, I'm bracing for some FLAME...... I doubt most bond/IPO launchers care who their investors are. It is usually the people who try to raise money who get questioned/attacked/flamed/trolled/whatever..
Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.01.25 05:26:00 - [13] To be fair though, being accused of being an alt actually has little to do with you. Its directed more at the main you are accused of being the alt for. If you are falsely accused of being an Riethe alt, for example, its about Riethe, not you. No one is actually saying the person sitting at their keyboard is a biological alt of the person that owns the Riethe account. There are a lot more pressing things to get upset about. Especially since everyone follows the same path - start as a new MD poster, gets mad at how the old guard treats new players with suspicion, eventually gets recognized as their own person, becomes integrated, starts looking at new "players" popping up suspiciously....
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Holdings	Posted - 2010.01.25 05:28:00 - [14] Originally by: Hippopotamus Rex To be fair though, being accused of being an alt actually has little to do with you. Its directed more at the main you are accused of being the alt for. If you are falsely accused of being an Riethe alt, for example, its about Riethe, not you. No one is actually saying the person sitting at their keyboard is a biological alt of the person that owns the Riethe account. There are a lot more pressing things to get upset about. Especially since everyone follows the same path - start as a new MD poster, gets mad at how the old guard treats new players with suspicion, eventually gets recognized as their own person, becomes integrated, starts looking at new "players" popping up suspiciously.... hmmm.... what's your angle?
Katiana Swan	Posted - 2010.01.25 05:37:00 - [15] Originally by: Alater Caedo would just be glad if everyone in MD were not so suspicious. People can be suspicious if they like. You, as an investor, have the option of choosing where you put your money. Just because a few people say scam or that something is dodgy doesn't mean you can't invest. Make your own decisions based on the information available. If you don't like the quality of the information or research do your own. This is basically the choice I made when investing in Satanes offering regardless of the fact that probably 95% of people were calling it dodgy or a scam. I wasn't comfortable with the level of research done so I done my own. Based on my own conclusions I made a decision to invest. No-one has told me off for investing in Satane and I honestly wouldn't care even if they did. Who I choose to invest in is my choice.
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.01.25 05:41:00 - [16] I started to post an argument.... but I've decided I'm far too elite for this thread. /finger
Dzil Caldari Greyhound investments	Posted - 2010.01.25 05:58:00 - [17] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 I started to post an argument.... but I've decided I'm far too elite for this thread. /finger /obligatory agree for free rep. Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m
Alater Caedo	Posted - 2010.01.25 06:00:00 - [18] Edited by: Alater Caedo on 25/01/2010 06:00:30 Originally by: SetrakDark Originally by: Hippopotamus Rex To be fair though, being accused of being an alt actually has little to do with you. Its directed more at the main you are accused of being the alt for. If you are falsely accused of being an Riethe alt, for example, its about Riethe, not you. No one is actually saying the person sitting at their keyboard is a biological alt of the person that owns the Riethe account. There are a lot more pressing things to get upset about. Especially since everyone follows the same path - start as a new MD poster, gets mad at how the old guard treats new players with suspicion, eventually gets recognized as their own person, becomes integrated, starts looking at new "players" popping up suspiciously.... hmmm.... what's your angle? I guess I'll just have to play along with the process for now. I still find it funny that even with all of this suspicion people get ripped off for billions of ISK.
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.01.25 06:02:00 - [19] Welcome to the Layer Cake
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2010.01.25 06:06:00 - [20] This is where I would normally troll you.

Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.01.25 06:08:00 - [21] Originally by: Alater Caedo I still find it funny that even with all of this suspicion people get ripped off for billions of ISK. More sad really. I understand your frustration, but scamming is so perverse throughout MD and Eve that it taints everything. I personally believe that the extreme skepticism is a necessary evil. If MD lightens up, more people scam. Not that it prevents a whole lot, but at least it keeps out the lazy scammers. I could be wrong, and perhaps openness is the way to go, but I doubt it.
Throckbane	Posted - 2010.01.25 06:14:00 - [22] Alater Caedo, thank you for your enlightening posts. I can see already that the MD Elites have seen the errors of their ways, and we are one step closer to letting more people get loans without careful scrutiny. I'm glad to see that this problem has been dealt with. On a personal note Alater, I have some great ideas for T2 battleship market manipulation, so if you could wire me half of your current balance I will make it worth your while. Together we will prove that the MD Elites have been wrong all along. Fight the power!
Roger Kiyosaki Community for Active Tax Evasion	Posted - 2010.01.25 08:56:00 - [23] Originally by: Wikipedia Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite ù a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes ù are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight or those who view their own views as so; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern. Bolded the important part. You choose to believe or not. Choose wisely, young pavian.
July83 Styg Enterprise	Posted - 2010.01.25 12:13:00 - [24] Just checking my post count
Roguehalo Caldari Resonance Laboratories	Posted - 2010.01.25 12:21:00 - [25] Ever since Fbank/Ebank/Dbank "md elite" has been virtually wiped out and could definitely now be considered to be an endangered species. Could we open up some kind of Sanctuary where the last few surviving md elite could be turned out to live out their remaining days in peace and free from the likes of Riethe etc? Perhaps Cista2 could make it his next project.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2010.01.25 12:45:00 - [26] As structure arises and an abundance of offerings is present, there will not be any elite. MD will go from being one large "island"(Community) to a platform for many different "groups" of people to interact.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.25 13:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Roguehalo Ever since Fbank/Ebank/Dbank "md elite" has been virtually wiped out and could definitely now be considered to be an endangered species. Lol this. Now its more like the old timers with lots of funds at their disposal and everyone else. And it's perfectly reasonable that those with more funds have more influence becasue its their money that pays for things generally. You want elite status? Get rich. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Alater Caedo	Posted - 2010.01.25 15:02:00 - [28] Originally by: Throckbane Alater Caedo, thank you for your enlightening posts. I can see already that the MD Elites have seen the errors of their ways, and we are one step closer to letting more people get loans without careful scrutiny. I'm glad to see that this problem has been dealt with. On a personal note Alater, I have some great ideas for T2 battleship market manipulation, so if you could wire me half of your current balance I will make it worth your while. Together we will prove that the MD Elites have been wrong all along. Fight the power! LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLLLOLOLOLLOLOLOLOL a+ post would read again.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.25 18:45:00 - [29] Quote: You want elite status? Get rich. What you have got is not a meter of who you are imho. I think most of the richest on Earth would be humbled by i.e. Mother Teresa of Calcutta and unlike her, they are not worth mentioning and much less remembering. That makes her a case of being "elite", in the good sense of it. And the others, they are just forgettable rubble. Rich rubble, but still... - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.25 19:27:00 - [30] Mother Teresa? Um... I think you are assuming this thread and my response encompasses far more then it actually does. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00

SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.01.25 19:40:00 - [31] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I think most of the richest on Earth would be humbled by i.e. Mother Teresa of Calcutta and unlike her, they are not worth mentioning and much less remembering. That makes her a case of being "elite", in the good sense of it. And the others, they are just forgettable rubble. Rich rubble, but still... Don't mistake humbled for respect. What Mother T did was donate her entire life to helping others, but in reality she was very poor, and "financially" never really did anything which cost a lot of money. I'm sure each years there are some middle income families that donate more then Mother T did on an average of a year. Even if you value out her time in dollars according to how much a person would get paid to perform the things she did. Respect =/= being Humbled. Spoken like a TRUE Elitist! Amarr for Life
Tiberizzle	Posted - 2010.01.25 19:45:00 - [32] Wait, is VV suggesting that there's a comparison between MD elitists (perhaps herself) and Mother Teresa, or is her post just completely irrelevant bull****? In either case, just please quit stop posting VV.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.25 20:00:00 - [33] Quote: Don't mistake humbled for respect. What Mother T did was donate her entire life to helping others, but in reality she was very poor, and "financially" never really did anything which cost a lot of money. They are humbled because the meter they use (on themselves) is completely materialistic and short lived. It's also a self applied meter (instead of coming off third parties), akin to what happened in MD. As for Teresa, it was just a "i.e." that is a random example. But to be pedant, I read at the time of her death she was in control of 610 missions spread over 123 countries, which cannot be exactly labelled as "never really did anything which cost a lot of money". I seem also to recall (but I might be wrong, I am not exactly a specialist in these things) about at least one hospital made (another thing that does not come so cheap). She also received multiple million dollars donations - again it's not pennies and she did not depart off Earth with these monies. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.01.25 20:15:00 - [34] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha They are humbled because the meter they use (on themselves) is completely materialistic and short lived. It's also a self applied meter (instead of coming off third parties), akin to what happened in MD. As for Teresa, it was just a "i.e." that is a random example. But to be pedant, I read at the time of her death she was in control of 610 missions spread over 123 countries, which cannot be exactly labelled as "never really did anything which cost a lot of money". I seem also to recall (but I might be wrong, I am not exactly a specialist in these things) about at least one hospital made (another thing that does not come so cheap). She also received multiple million dollars donations - again it's not pennies and she did not depart off Earth with these monies. Way to prove my point VV.. You should give up while you can. Did she Pay for these missions out of her own Pocket? What about that Hospital? And by the way, those multiple million dollar donations are exactly that.. DONATIONS! i.e. She was GIVEN that money she didn't earn any of that money she spent on those things.. I find it hard to believe that Mother T would sit back and proclaim "Look at all I've done with others peoples money!" and you claiming the very people that gave her that money would be humbled by the fact she spent it doing charitable things? That's a laugh and a half! Amarr for Life
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.25 20:34:00 - [35] Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 25/01/2010 20:36:38 I think you get the opposite of what I am trying to say. She's the real elite and example for others to follow, not the bunch of (possibly with shady methods) riches who believe they are the elites. Edit also, I think we have very different opinions about what "humbled" applies to. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.25 20:39:00 - [36] VV, I think you miss the point of Elite: Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Originally by: Wikipedia Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite ù a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes ù are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight or those who view their own views as so; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern. Bolded the important part. You choose to believe or not. Choose wisely, young pavian. Mother Teresa could certainly be seen as an example of self-sacrifice and giving of yourself. But see the bolded above. "Elite", as Roger provided a definition for, is those that whose views on a mattter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight. Mother Teresa could be considered "elite" in the realm of self-sacrifice or whatever. She's hardly an elite whose views you'd look to when considering how to best invest your money profitably. Not saying she didn't work with any money, but her aim was not to be the most profitable, so she's hardly elite in that particular realm. Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Tesal	Posted - 2010.01.25 20:56:00 - [37] Originally by: LaVista Vista As structure arises and an abundance of offerings is present, there will not be any elite. MD will go from being one large "island"(Community) to a platform for many different "groups" of people to interact. A rock feels no pain, and an island never cries. never stop posting...with alts. Please do not use inappropriate language in your sig. Zymurgist
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.25 21:06:00 - [38] Originally by: Dretzle Omega VV, I think you miss the point of Elite: Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Originally by: Wikipedia Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite ù a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes ù are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight or those who view their own views as so; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern. I am not missing the point, I am just using another concept of elite and the concept I think should replace the MD one: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/elite ûnoun 1. (often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons. Bolded the important part. You choose to believe or not. Choose wisely, young pavian. Mother Teresa could certainly be seen as an example of self-sacrifice and giving of yourself. But see the bolded above. "Elite", as Roger provided a definition for, is those that whose views on a mattter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight. Mother Teresa could be considered "elite" in the realm of self-sacrifice or whatever. She's hardly an elite whose views you'd look to when considering how to best invest your money profitably. Not saying she didn't work with any money, but her aim was not to be the most profitable, so she's hardly elite in that particular realm. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.25 21:10:00 - [39] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I am just using another concept of elite and the concept I think should replace the MD one: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/elite ûnoun 1. (often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons. Sure, I can agree with you there. I'm still not going to ask her how to best invest to return a profit with my money. Her example of best might get me to give away all my money... Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Tesal	Posted - 2010.01.25 21:12:00 - [40] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 25/01/2010 21:06:32 Originally by: Dretzle Omega VV, I think you miss the point of Elite: Originally by: Roger Kiyosaki Originally by: Wikipedia Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite ù a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities, intellect, wealth, specialized training or experience, or other distinctive attributes ù are those whose views on a matter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight or those who view their own views as so; whose views and/or actions are most likely to be constructive to society as a whole; or whose extraordinary skills, abilities or wisdom render them especially fit to govern. Bolded the important part. You choose to believe or not. Choose wisely, young pavian. Mother Teresa could certainly be seen as an example of self-sacrifice and giving of yourself. But see the bolded above. "Elite", as Roger provided a definition for, is those that whose views on a mattter are to be taken the most seriously or carry the most weight. Mother Teresa could be considered "elite" in the realm of self-sacrifice or whatever. She's hardly an elite whose views you'd look to when considering how to best invest your money profitably. Not saying she didn't work with any money, but her aim was not to be the most profitable, so she's hardly elite in that particular realm. I am not missing the point, I am just using another concept of elite and the concept I think should replace the MD one: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/elite ûnoun 1. (often used with a plural verb) the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons. pedantic 1. Like a pedant, overly concerned with formal rules and trivial points of learning. 2. Being showy of oneÆs knowledge, often in a boring manner. 3. Being finicky or picky with language. never stop posting...with alts. Please do not use inappropriate language in your sig. Zymurgist

Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.25 21:20:00 - [41] Quote: pedantic 1. Like a pedant, overly concerned with formal rules and trivial points of learning. 2. Being showy of oneÆs knowledge, often in a boring manner. 3. Being finicky or picky with language. I'd go with this. From http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/accountant *Investopedia Commentary* Accountants are the bean counters! Call it professional deformation - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.25 21:37:00 - [42] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Call it professional deformation Why, have you gotten fatter/skinnier? Deformation In materials science, deformation is a change in the shape or size of an object due to an applied force. hehe, I can play with definitions, too. Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Roguehalo Caldari Resonance Laboratories	Posted - 2010.01.25 21:44:00 - [43] Insofar as "md elite" are more or less extinct these days..... It's really rather a moot discussion.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.01.25 22:09:00 - [44] Nice deflection away from your original statement of "the richest would be humbled by Mother Teresa". To which I said "Don't mistake humbled for respect." Mother T's ability to perform the work she did and do the things she did was driven by the giving nature of those people wealthy and no so wealthy, giving her in order to continue doing what she was doing. Without those giving individuels giving millions of dollars she wouldn't be able to do what she did. Given everything, she should be humbled by the people that gave her all the money/resources which I'm sure some of the richest are among them. All that giving from those people allow her to do what she did for a life time, that makes her humble, not the other way around. To make a version of Mother T for EVE or even MD you'd have the following. Someone start devoting 100% of their EVE Time to the assistance of others, doing things for them accepting donations, buying PLEXes and gifting them to people who can no longer afford to play EVE both financially in real life or EVE life. Not just giving people ISK but showing them how to make it, setting up infrastructure for them to allow them to continue to play. Knowing and working out exactly what that person you're trying to help wants to know and setup everything they need to allow them to do it because they neither have the funds or the know how on how to do that. Amarr for Life
Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.01.25 22:33:00 - [45] Originally by: SencneS Mother T's ability to perform the work she did and do the things she did was driven by the giving nature of those people wealthy and no so wealthy, giving her in order to continue doing what she was doing. Wow. You do realize that NONE of those people ever gave as much as she did. She donated her life to helping others, the people you refer to donated a PORTION of their paycheck. Originally by: SencneS Without those giving individuels giving millions of dollars she wouldn't be able to do what she did. And without her, those individuals that write a check wouldn't have anyone to donate to, whats your point? Originally by: SencneS Given everything, she should be humbled... All that giving from those people allow her to do what she did for a life time, that makes her humble, not the other way around. "Here you go Mother Teresa, you mooch. We'll keep donating to support addiction to helping the less fortunate." You're trolling right? You have to be trolling. It basically sounds like you're saying that Mother Teresa didn't really do anything. And the guy that makes $10M a year that goes and blows most of it on drugs, prostitutes and gambling, but saves $10,000 and sends it to Mother Teresa, would humble her? I mean, really, wouldn't he be the real hero. (God, I hope you're trolling).
Alater Caedo	Posted - 2010.01.25 23:50:00 - [46] Originally by: Roguehalo Insofar as "md elite" are more or less extinct these days..... It's really rather a moot discussion. elite being gone =/= elitism being gone.. This topic has veered so far off course that it is moot, though. :) haha
Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 00:35:00 - [47] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha I think most of the richest on Earth would be humbled by i.e. Mother Teresa of Calcutta and unlike her, they are not worth mentioning and much less remembering. You mean Mother Teresa the fraud an charlatan? The woman who stacked sick Indians inside her "hospitals" with very little in the way of actual care and sustanence while she rode on a jumbo jet across Africa preaching about the dangers of condoms? I know the usage of her name wasn't the point, but I hate that people who seem to know nothing of what she actually did use her name in a positive way. ... Back to your regularly scheduled programming ...
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2010.01.26 01:17:00 - [48] Remember when Elton John released the song about Diana after she died "Goodbye English Rose" to the song "Candle in the Wind". When Mother Teresa died shortly after his next release was "Sandals in the Bin". note: I know I'm sick.
Carine Parnasse	Posted - 2010.01.26 01:50:00 - [49] I've just realised im in love with SencneS Originally by: Hippopotamus Rex Wow. You do realize that NONE of those people ever gave as much as she did. She donated her life to helping others, the people you refer to donated a PORTION of their paycheck. Well, call me old fashioned, but i thought charity was helping others. So i could give up my cushy wallstreet job and 'donate my life to helping others', or i could take a tiny portion of my paycheck to pay several others to do it for me? I dont need to personally see the sick people help them. Originally by: Hippopotamus Rex And without her, those individuals that write a check wouldn't have anyone to donate to, whats your point? I'd like to think that there would be human compasion without Mother Teresa :S What about all the charities that recieved money without her help? On topic, anyone who uses the word 'lulzy' shouldn't be too suprised about getting flamed a lot.
Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.01.26 02:10:00 - [50] Originally by: Carine Parnasse Well, call me old fashioned, but i thought charity was helping others. So i could give up my cushy wallstreet job and 'donate my life to helping others', or i could take a tiny portion of my paycheck to pay several others to do it for me? I dont need to personally see the sick people help them. Yep, you sure can. You just can't later pretend that you gave more than those that do it full time. What was it about my post that ever gave you the impression I thought charity wasn't helping others? Originally by: Carine Parnasse I'd like to think that there would be human compasion without Mother Teresa :S What about all the charities that recieved money without her help? My point was that without people, like her, there would be no one to do the actual charitable work. They are more rare, than all the people donating 1% of their income, and therefore more precious. Anyone can set a little money aside, but I doubt most people have what it takes to work entirely for others - I don't.

Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 02:28:00 - [51] Originally by: Hippopotamus Rex My point was that without people, like her, there would be no one to do the actual charitable work. They are more rare, than all the people donating 1% of their income, and therefore more precious. Anyone can set a little money aside, but I doubt most people have what it takes to work entirely for others - I don't. She is no better than the people who give money. Time = Money. You either donate time or donate money. Usually those who have one, don't have the other. There will always be someone to step up to either side of the plate, depending on their means. In fact, if you want to look at Theresa individually, then they are (in my opinion) better because of all the damage that she did during her life and how immoral her belief systems were.
Selene D'Celeste Caldari The D'Celeste Trading Company ISK Six	Posted - 2010.01.26 02:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Tesal pedantic 1. Like a pedant, overly concerned with formal rules and trivial points of learning. 2. Being showy of oneÆs knowledge, often in a boring manner. 3. Being finicky or picky with language. stupid 1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull. 2. annoying or irritating;
Carine Parnasse	Posted - 2010.01.26 02:50:00 - [53] Edited by: Carine Parnasse on 26/01/2010 02:50:57 Originally by: Hippopotamus Rex Yep, you sure can. You just can't later pretend that you gave more than those that do it full time. What was it about my post that ever gave you the impression I thought charity wasn't helping others? My point was that without people, like her, there would be no one to do the actual charitable work. They are more rare, than all the people donating 1% of their income, and therefore more precious. Anyone can set a little money aside, but I doubt most people have what it takes to work entirely for others - I don't. You do realise that there are millions of unemployed people who will do charitable work if they are paid? And my point about helping others was that its not a pennance, a stock broker who donates all thier money is just as heroic as Mother T, as they are doing everything they can to help others. Most people dont however, but that doesnt make the 1% effort they do make a bad thing.
Tesal	Posted - 2010.01.26 03:00:00 - [54] Originally by: Selene D'Celeste Originally by: Tesal pedantic 1. Like a pedant, overly concerned with formal rules and trivial points of learning. 2. Being showy of oneÆs knowledge, often in a boring manner. 3. Being finicky or picky with language. stupid 1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull. 2. annoying or irritating; You are still mad at me? I did troll you pretty good. never stop posting...with alts. Please do not use inappropriate language in your sig. Zymurgist
Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.01.26 03:08:00 - [55] Originally by: Carine Parnasse ... a stock broker who donates all thier money is just as heroic as Mother T I agree completely. What I was trying to get at was that I would measure charity as how much you give of yourself, not the dollar amount.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.01.26 05:26:00 - [56] I'm just elite wherever I go, deal with it! ps: I bet it is a scam!
Trebor Locke Gallente Round Table Enterprises Leather Rose Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.26 07:15:00 - [57] The best IPOs are always the hidden IPOs. The ones that are not publicly advertised. You almost always get higher yields, can trust your people more, and have a very close network of investors and traders to work with. How do you find these? You become trusted by the people with such connections to the point where you get invited. How do you do that? Join a corporation or two and start up your own corp/alliance IPOs. Lots of little things surface there and corporations are more willing to hand a corp mate money than a near annonymous person. -------------- CEO of Round Table Enterprises Chairman of the Leather Rose Syndicate Your friendly economic management and trade orginization.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.26 08:12:00 - [58] Quote: You mean Mother Teresa the fraud an charlatan? The woman who stacked sick Indians inside her "hospitals" with very little in the way of actual care and sustanence while she rode on a jumbo jet across Africa preaching about the dangers of condoms? Of course you are the established authority to judge her. The trivial facts of going in the butt of the world and live: - years curing leper people - getting from pneumonia to malaria herself, maybe because sometimes she descended off those jumbo jets of yours - founding hundreds of assistance centers make her fraud and charlatan. Oh mr exlamation mark, she had her beliefes and being born in 1910 in a poor country might have put some outdated or less than top of best graduate specialist medical knowledge. She did, more than blather. Now, you are free to fix her errors, leave your basement and go help the thousands and show how it's done. Or STFU. Quote: Well, call me old fashioned, but i thought charity was helping others. So i could give up my cushy wallstreet job and 'donate my life to helping others', or i could take a tiny portion of my paycheck to pay several others to do it for me? What is missing in the world is not money. What is missing is compassion and ultimately "love" for the next guy. See how well it does tossing toys and more toys to children born in a divorced family? Nothing. It just gives a FAKE "I did my job" to the parents. What the children needed was love, possibly love by both. What the poor in the world need is someone who care for them. Someone who man it up and goes to clean the sh!t of the very bottoms of the disable elders in some forgotten 4th world country. This cannot be bought with money. You can be a billionaire never leaving his yacht and tossing millions to charity. This is worth of honor (compared to those using such money for all other and certainly not constructive activities) but it's still not being charitable for real. The billionaire donating 1 million and in the evening going and spend 2 hours with the sick in his town's quarters (no need to go to Africa), that one is a truly charitable man. And for him, of the two actions, the harder would be spending 2 hours a day cleaning vomit, not donating 1 million "to feel in peace". - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.01.26 10:51:00 - [59] Originally by: ThaDollaGenerale Originally by: Brock Nelson We call you out because we're holding the isk? If you can't handle the question or the flaming, then look elsewhere How does one hold the isk if their accounts have been cleaned out and banned? How does one scam that which has no sub?
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.26 11:57:00 - [60] How did we go from discussing "MD Elite" a.k.a., supposedly ones knowledgeable in the ways of financing and investing, to Mother Teresa being MD Elite, despite her work having nothing to do with profitable investments? VV, you're trying to say Mother Teresa is "more elite" or "the elite we should aspire to". I still have to say, what the heck does that have to do with "MD Elite"? I still wouldn't ask her how to invest my money for decent profits, etc. I think you're stuck on the word Elite, and missed the qualifier "MD" in front of it. We're talking about "elite" in one particular field, not the "most elite of the world" or "most elite personal goals" or whatever. Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money

Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.26 12:38:00 - [61] Originally by: Dretzle Omega How did we go from discussing "MD Elite" a.k.a., supposedly ones knowledgeable in the ways of financing and investing, to Mother Teresa being MD Elite, despite her work having nothing to do with profitable investments? My answer was not even strictly tied to the topic. It was (you can check yourself the post) a simple reply to: "You want elite status? Get rich" like getting rich grants or even deserves the "elite" flag. At this point you could argue that the sentence in this thread would have a specific meaning: "You want MD elite status? Get rich" and once again, I don't think so. To be MD elite "the negative way" all you need is to be a pricky douche pretending to be uber. To be MD elite "the positive way" all you need is to act like a proper decent man and slowly see the others saying you are better / more trustworthy / better enterpreneur than others. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.26 12:49:00 - [62] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Originally by: Dretzle Omega How did we go from discussing "MD Elite" a.k.a., supposedly ones knowledgeable in the ways of financing and investing, to Mother Teresa being MD Elite, despite her work having nothing to do with profitable investments? My answer was not even strictly tied to the topic. It was (you can check yourself the post) a simple reply to: "You want elite status? Get rich" like getting rich grants or even deserves the "elite" flag. At this point you could argue that the sentence in this thread would have a specific meaning: "You want MD elite status? Get rich" and once again, I don't think so. Yeah, that would have been my argument on the meaning of the statement, since the subject at hand was clearly MD Elitism, the "elite status" he was referring to was about MD. But VV, just consider this friendly jousting (and getting back on topic? meh). I know where you were going with your replies. Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.01.26 15:03:00 - [63] Things I've done that make Elite or MD Elite by the definition of VV sets forth. Sometimes I sit in Jita in an alt and say things like "Who wants a free {enter item here} just let me know." This is giving, and by definition that is charity, I don't discriminate between the wealthy or the poor in EVE, if someone wants something they'll take it from my hand when I offer it up. I've given close to 3,000 items of various values. While people call me a scam initially, they realize that the way I give to them it makes it impossible for them to be scammed, so they try it out. Once in Jita 4-4 CNR my giving spree initiated a full on "Love" fest by thoughts around me. People just free giving, I had close to eight others giving away items. All in the name of "Charity" that few hours I was in Jita I gave a bulk of my items away, by the end the amount of Trade windows opened in Jita must have caused a spike in CCP's logs as even expensive meta 10+ items where being transfered. Not only did I donate things myself but my good will got others to do the same. Mother T did the same thing her Charity of what she did made people feel good and wanted to help her out by donations they felt drawn to. In MD, I use to tell people straight up the best solution to problems they came here with, no hiding trade secretes or masking the processes. I still do sometimes but for the most part I have to feel motivated to do so. While it's not a great example I hold bars on information, ask and you'll get. Even in EBANK threads I give as much as I can informational wise, some things I just can't give but I live by the motto that open full transparency is the ONLY way to show anyone just how much you trust them with that data. It's up to me to protect myself, my investments, and what I do. I play EVE in a similar fashion, my PVP alt has no Electronic Warfare training on it at all, why? I also hold a 5.45 Concord standing (Higher then what most will achieve) this tells you two things, 1) I never start a fight, 2) If you fight me, and you start to lose (Which will probably be the case) you can get away. I also didn't train battleships no idea why I just never did. While some may say that is stupidity it's a testament to what I believe, who I am and how I'll act. Recently my Best EVE buddy told me one of his Real Life friend was caught by CCP and has a negative wallet of 2.3B ISK. My buddy said - I'm going to help him dig out. I choose to help him, because he may have purchased ISK a LONG time ago (2years about) but he always pays for EVE with RL Cash, never a PLEX or GTC. I collected the skills from my Buddy and his alts, and the in debt person and their alts. I developed a plan for them to recover the debt in 2-3 months (They had 800mil between them all) I developed a spreadsheet which does pretty much everything they would normally calculate, they literally just need to enter prices from the market and how many they have in stock and it does the rest. I explained what was happening, what they'll do be doing and projected income if they do it this particular way. 2-3 Week in, I got a evemail from my buddies friend, saying he has paid his first 100mil into the debt. I told him to NEVER pay that debt CCP has put you in. Use your alt to buy anything your main needs and contract it to him. Never pay it back until you have so much ISK you have no other use for it. He didn't know why? So I explained to him that debt is "free" that 100mil you put in there you can't use, use it, expand what I gave you, it'll help. He also said - He hasn't had so much fun in EVE in years!! He is seeing a side of EVE he didn't know or care about. There is one other thing I do but I will get flamed for it so I leave it out deliberately. If people really want to know, shoot me an EVE-mail or if I get enough response here I'll post with a flame suit. While I'm not Mother T, I don't consider myself Elite in any standard, charity does exist in EVE, you just need to look for it. Amarr for Life
Carine Parnasse	Posted - 2010.01.26 15:06:00 - [64] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha And for him, of the two actions, the harder would be spending 2 hours a day cleaning vomit, not donating 1 million "to feel in peace". Utter nonsense. Charity isnt suposed to be about making yourself miserable to show how much your heart bleeds. If he pays two hours a day wages to charity, that is the same "effort" as 2 hours cleaning vomit. Except of course there will be more benifit to those same charities, for those of us with more job prospects then Mother Teresa. The lawyer who could work for 2 more hours a week but instead spends that time up to his armpits in sick people is just throwing money away.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.26 15:14:00 - [65] Originally by: SencneS There is one other thing I do but I will get flamed for it so I leave it out deliberately. If people really want to know, shoot me an EVE-mail or if I get enough response here I'll post with a flame suit. I'd be interested in hearing about it, if you want to send me an Eve Mail. Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.01.26 16:10:00 - [66] I'm still trying to figure out who the 'md elite' are... There's people who's posts I read and go 'hmm they have a point' and then there are people who post and I go 'ok this guy is talking out of his ass for no reason'. Bottom line: There is no 'elite' it is simply a group of people with opinions. Some opinions you will agree with, others you won't. There is no 'elite' here and giving anyone in this forum that 'moniker' is stupid. Nobody here is any better than anyone else. There are a few members who have, over time, proven themselves trustworthy to some (but not all) members here. Other than that? Nobody is perfect and it's still EVE folks... trust no-one with money you can't afford to lose. Ever. Want a sig made? Contact me in game. Click my sig to see samples
Amarr Citizen 155 Nordar Innovations.	Posted - 2010.01.26 16:16:00 - [67] Originally by: Taram Caldar I'm still trying to figure out who the 'md elite' are... There's people who's posts I read and go 'hmm they have a point' and then there are people who post and I go 'ok this guy is talking out of his ass for no reason'. Bottom line: There is no 'elite' it is simply a group of people with opinions. Some opinions you will agree with, others you won't. There is no 'elite' here and giving anyone in this forum that 'moniker' is stupid. Nobody here is any better than anyone else. There are a few members who have, over time, proven themselves trustworthy to some (but not all) members here. Other than that? Nobody is perfect and it's still EVE folks... trust no-one with money you can't afford to lose. Ever. I'm better than everyone else, I've got 2 spaces. But you are right, there is not a group of people on MD who are the elite. There is just me, the last elite. I ride around Eve on the last unicorn and sometimes I run into the last of the Mohicans. It's a lonely life.
SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.01.26 16:22:00 - [68] Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 I ride around Eve on the last unicorn and sometimes I run into the last of the Mohicans. It's a lonely life. A Unicorn.... You could at least be a manly MD Elite and use a Griffin! Amarr for Life
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.26 16:28:00 - [69] Quote: Utter nonsense. Charity isnt suposed to be about making yourself miserable to show how much your heart bleeds You are not making yourself miserable when helping others. You are actually setting a living example of what noble and altruistic sentiments can live in men's hearts. Also, seen off the perspective of "show how much..." it makes your attempt immediately worthless. Those who live to service others, do that because they feel it, not to show off anything. I don't expect but for a tiny minority of people to get the difference, because materialism and selfishness are now the default and make people blind. Said that, sadly, I am as bad as the regular average man. Or worse, because unlike them, I know the values to embrace and yet I am not strong enough to put them in practice. - Auditing and consulting Before asking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.01.26 17:04:00 - [70] Originally by: SencneS Originally by: Amarr Citizen 155 I ride around Eve on the last unicorn and sometimes I run into the last of the Mohicans. It's a lonely life. A Unicorn.... You could at least be a manly MD Elite and use a Griffin! Says the dude with the female avatar to the other Besides, griffins are so last year.

SencneS Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks	Posted - 2010.01.26 17:16:00 - [71] Originally by: Hippopotamus Rex Says the dude with the female avatar to the other When Walking in stations is finally in EVE I guess you'll be looking at a dudes behind while walking around. I ALWAYS choose a female avatar for anything I play, the female form is more appealing to look at for hours on end while playing a game, especially since the alternative is some dude, muscle bound and oiled up or just geeky looking, to each their own I guess. Amarr for Life
Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 17:52:00 - [72] Edited by: Ledif Nieht on 26/01/2010 17:53:13 Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Of course you are the established authority to judge her. The trivial facts of going in the butt of the world and live: - years curing leper people - getting from pneumonia to malaria herself, maybe because sometimes she descended off those jumbo jets of yours - founding hundreds of assistance centers make her fraud and charlatan. Oh mr exlamation mark, she had her beliefes and being born in 1910 in a poor country might have put some outdated or less than top of best graduate specialist medical knowledge. She did, more than blather. Now, you are free to fix her errors, leave your basement and go help the thousands and show how it's done. Or STFU. I am as much an authority as anyone else. How about I don't STFU and keep saying what I want and you don't do anything about it (because you can't)? How about that? You can try to obfuscate and avoid the facts all you want, but the truth is that this woman did lots of bad things (not just good) and when you couple that with the immorality inherent in all theistic religions, then I say (on balance) that she was a fraud and a charlatan. We are talking about someone who stacked people to the ceiling in her understaffed, underfunded, under supplied "hospitals" to suffer and die (many did). All the while she is on some immoral quest to convince people in countries ravaged by AIDS that they shouldn't use condoms because it might upset her magical sky fairy. Get real. Come back when you actually have an intelligent rebuttal.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.26 17:58:00 - [73] Originally by: Ledif Nieht I am as much an authority as anyone else. How about I don't STFU and keep saying what I want and you don't do anything about it (because you can't)? How about that? Yeah, that's mature. Originally by: Ledif Nieht immorality inherent in all theistic religions. Not that I want to get into a religious debate here (in fact, I won't debate whatever you say), but what immorality is inherent in a theistic religion? (Not just one particular religion, or generalities, but how it is inherent.) Originally by: Ledif Nieht Come back when you actually have an intelligent rebuttal. He did have one. Your response was basically "Nuh-uh! You're stupid!" How about you come back when you actually have an intelligent rebuttal? (Commenting on your post here, not the character of MT or her "magical sky fairy".) Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.01.26 17:58:00 - [74] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Originally by: Dretzle Omega How did we go from discussing "MD Elite" a.k.a., supposedly ones knowledgeable in the ways of financing and investing, to Mother Teresa being MD Elite, despite her work having nothing to do with profitable investments? My answer was not even strictly tied to the topic. It was (you can check yourself the post) a simple reply to: "You want elite status? Get rich" like getting rich grants or even deserves the "elite" flag. At this point you could argue that the sentence in this thread would have a specific meaning: "You want MD elite status? Get rich" and once again, I don't think so. To be MD elite "the negative way" all you need is to be a pricky douche pretending to be uber. To be MD elite "the positive way" all you need is to act like a proper decent man and slowly see the others saying you are better / more trustworthy / better enterpreneur than others. That sentence was the conclusion of a paragraph dealing directly with a quote about who the MD elite were. But bravo for quoting out of context and carrying off on your own little tangent. Well done. Please, by all means, carry on with your pointless tirade. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 18:59:00 - [75] Edited by: Ledif Nieht on 26/01/2010 19:00:01 Originally by: Dretzle Omega Yeah, that's mature. There is nothing immature about it whatsoever. If someone tells me to "do X or STFU", it is a perfectly valid response to say "I won't do X, I will continue to do what I want, and if you don't like it you can leave". If you disagree, point out what specific part of my statement fits the definition of immature. Originally by: Dretzle Omega Not that I want to get into a religious debate here (in fact, I won't debate whatever you say), but what immorality is inherent in a theistic religion? (Not just one particular religion, or generalities, but how it is inherent.) Yes, all theistic religions are immoral. You could fill a book with the reasons why, but a couple are the abdication of responsibility through the belief in a magical being (which undermines the concept of personal responsibility upon which all moral and ethical behavior must be built) and the rejection of empirical evidence and reality in favor of fantasy. Ridiculous theistic belief systems have done incredible damage to this world and it's people, and should be opposed in all places at all times. Originally by: Dretzle Omega He did have one. Your response was basically "Nuh-uh! You're stupid!" How about you come back when you actually have an intelligent rebuttal? (Commenting on your post here, not the character of MT or her "magical sky fairy".) No, there was nothing intelligent about the rebuttal, and your summary of my statement is completely inept. Why don't you read what is posted before you embarrass yourself any further. I pointed out specific things that made Agnesd Bojaxhiu an immoral individual. Among these was providing very sub-standard care to those in her "hospitals" while spending money on immoral pursuits like opposing condom distribution throughout Africa.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.01.26 19:14:00 - [76] Originally by: Ledif Nieht No, there was nothing intelligent about the rebuttal, and your summary of my statement is completely inept. Why don't you read what is posted before you embarrass yourself any further. It wasn't. I did, and I didn't. Originally by: Akita T BTW, if you see God when you're clutching for your chest due to sudden realization you have no chance to get out of this with your wallet intact tell him he still owes me money
Deimos Draganov	Posted - 2010.01.26 19:23:00 - [77] Edited by: Deimos Draganov on 26/01/2010 19:22:55 -------------------------------------------- Faith is the surrender of the mind; it's the surrender of reason, it's the surrender of the only thing that makes us different from other mammals.
Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 19:28:00 - [78] Originally by: Dretzle Omega It wasn't. I did, and I didn't. Yes, it was completely inept, as it reveals how much a problem you seem to have with reading and interpretation (you summarized my statement in a way that wasn't at all related to it). You may not be embarrassed, but I certainly would be if I wrote something so nonsensical. In any case, this has deteriorated into an even larger waste of time than it started as. I bid you good day.
Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.01.26 19:57:00 - [79] Originally by: Ledif Nieht Yes, it was completely inept, as it reveals how much a problem you seem to have with reading and interpretation (you summarized my statement in a way that wasn't at all related to it). Or..... you may have a problem with writing and communication. Now, I'd be willing to take your word for and say Dretlze was wrong and you were right, BUT, for all I know, you could be a magical being. And if I were to abdicate my personal responsibility to determine myself where the fault lies, well, that would just be immoral.
Stupid McStupidson Gallente Hoek Lyne and Sinker	Posted - 2010.01.26 20:01:00 - [80] Internet spaceship money is serious F'in business.

Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.01.26 20:08:00 - [81] Originally by: Stupid McStupidson Internet spaceship money is serious F'in business. No, Mother Teresa, charity, unicorns, SencneS female roleplaying obsession and religion are serious f'in business. Pay attention to the thread.
InUrJita CheckinUrPrice	Posted - 2010.01.26 20:19:00 - [82] Edited by: InUrJita CheckinUrPrice on 26/01/2010 20:19:44 "There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch." Or, in other words, fanaticism in the drive to eradicate fanaticism is rather self defeating, wouldn't you say? In any event, Mother Teresa. Although her enthusiasm for helping others was an inspiration to many, I doubt anyone would disagree that she, due to her lack of medical training, made many dubious treatment decisions. And while her faith was commendable, her fondness for proselytisation rubbed many the wrong way. All in all, even when her actions were misguided she generally intended them to be for the benefit of man(and woman)kind. In my opinion, she is somewhat more morally ambiguous than her popular portrayal, but by no means the villain that some posters seem intent on making her out to be. In regards to who sacrifices more, the executive who gives two hours a week worth of income, or the working person who gives two hours a week worth of time -- both actions are commendable and necessary, but one (the giving of income) is tax deductible (and therefore motivated by self interest) while the other generates nothing but good will. From that point of view, it's fairly easy to declare the giving of time a more selfless act than the giving of money. If selflessness is the primary criteria -- which it isn't, or we wouldn't have a tax deduction for charitable giving -- then time is the more valuable gift. That said, I should hope we all know better than to simplify things to such absurdities, and that all participants in this debate are aware that both time and money are equally necessary to the operation of a charitable enterprise. Hopefully that clears up a few issues.
Hel O'Ween Men On A Mission	Posted - 2010.01.26 20:40:00 - [83] Originally by: InUrJita CheckinUrPrice "There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch." Or, in other words, fanaticism in the drive to eradicate fanaticism is rather self defeating, wouldn't you say? No, it's not. It's the only way to deal with these people, as their blind believe in their idols makes them immune against arguments. I fully agree with Ledif's opinion. -- EVEWalletAware - an offline wallet manager
Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 21:05:00 - [84] Edited by: Ledif Nieht on 26/01/2010 21:07:41 Originally by: InUrJita CheckinUrPrice And while her faith was commendable It wasn't commendable, it was (in my opinion) repugnant. Faith, or at least faith in supernatural beings, is a bane to our society and has done far more to damage the human collective than it has to improve it. We should all be working towards the goal of eliminating religion via the lessening of poverty, improvement of education and the advancement of science. Since there is a strong proven inverse correlation between economic stability, education, and religiosity, that approach seems to make the most sense. Originally by: Hel O'Ween No, it's not. It's the only way to deal with these people, as their blind believe in their idols makes them immune against arguments. I fully agree with Ledif's opinion. Thank you. I completely agree, we need to stop with this apologist nonsense of "respecting all beliefs" and identify and vehemently oppose that which is objectively harmful to our society.
Phoebe Halliwel	Posted - 2010.01.26 21:17:00 - [85] Originally by: Ledif Nieht I completely agree, we need to stop with this apologist nonsense of "respecting all beliefs" and identify and vehemently oppose that which is objectively harmful to our society. You might want to read CCP's Forum Rules. Be respectful of others at all times. The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting. If you are unable to "respect others beliefs" a public forum is not the place for you. If you want to talk about "vehemently opposing" other people's religious beliefs, EVE Online is not the venue.
Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 21:30:00 - [86] Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel Originally by: Ledif Nieht I completely agree, we need to stop with this apologist nonsense of "respecting all beliefs" and identify and vehemently oppose that which is objectively harmful to our society. You might want to read CCP's Forum Rules. Be respectful of others at all times. The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting. If you are unable to "respect others beliefs" a public forum is not the place for you. If you want to talk about "vehemently opposing" other people's religious beliefs, EVE Online is not the venue. Your interpretation of the rules and of my comments is inept. I said nothing about disrespecting the person as an individual, I am talking about disrespecting immoral and fabricated belief systems. If a person takes attack of their fabricated beliefs to be an attack on themselves, then they are the ones who are out of line and perhaps shouldn't associate themselves so closely with something that opens them up to criticism. Your post is, in a microcosm, exactly what I was pointing out. People are unable to separate disrespect of an individual (as a person) and disrespect of a belief that is so obviously damaging to our society. If I said that I believed that Elvis was the son of god, and didn't die but ascended to his throne on Mars (where we can't see him or detect him because of his magical force fields), would you say "well that is a valid belief and I respect it"? No, it is ridiculous and it deserves to be repudiated and disrespected. The same thing goes to the currently dominant theistic belief systems. There is no evidence to support any of their fantastic claims, and religion (in general) is objectively bad for our society. That is why, I think, it needs to be disrespected and opposed. So, if you can't understand the difference, then maybe a public forum (and EVE Online) isn't the right place for you.
Phoebe Halliwel	Posted - 2010.01.26 21:33:00 - [87] Edited by: Phoebe Halliwel on 26/01/2010 21:33:49 How can an interpretation or an opinion be inept? Seriously stop ranting and or your rantage elsewhere. Last time I checked this was Market Discussions, what has any of this drivel got to do with either Eve or MD?
Varo Jan Caravanserai Consulting	Posted - 2010.01.26 21:38:00 - [88] Originally by: Ledif Nieht Rant Do climb down off your soap box. This isn¦t Hyde Park Corner. Read the name on the door? Market Discussions. Contribute to the topic or go rant somewhere else. Your choice.
Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 21:39:00 - [89] Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel How can an interpretation or an opinion be inept? Seriously stop ranting and or your rantage elsewhere. Last time I checked this was Market Discussions, what has any of this drivel got to do with either Eve or MD? An interpretation or an opinion can be inept if it reveals a lack perceptiveness, judgement, or finesse. Your statement (in my opinion) reveals a lack of perceptiveness and judgement (amongst other things), therefore I view it as inept. Although this clearly falls outside the scope of this particular forum, it is relevant in the context of the thread. If you aren't interested or don't like it, then I suggest you move along.
Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 21:44:00 - [90] Originally by: Varo Jan Contribute to the topic or go rant somewhere else. Your choice. I will continue to respond to the thread as I see fit, and there is simply nothing you can do about it. Don't like it? Move along then. You are contributing to it being off topic also because you (via your responses) are preventing the thread from dying.

Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2010.01.26 22:07:00 - [91] Edited by: Hippopotamus Rex on 26/01/2010 22:08:41 Originally by: Ledif Nieht Your post is, in a microcosm, exactly what I was pointing out. People are unable to separate disrespect of an individual (as a person) and disrespect of a belief that is so obviously damaging to our society. Hi. I'm sure you are in no way exaggerating or twisting anything anyone has said, including yourself, so can you please quote for me, where in the thread above, you were pointing that out? Thanks. I thought you were talking about religion being immoral and not about people taking things personally. Oh God, I hope my ineptitude isn't showing. EDIT: And there is lots I can do if I don't like what you post. I can ask my God to turn off the internet.... I simply choose not to.
Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 22:16:00 - [92] Originally by: Hippopotamus Rex Hi. I'm sure you are in no way exaggerating or twisting anything anyone has said, including yourself, so can you please quote for me, where in the thread above, you were pointing that out? Thanks. Actually, I don't think that I am misrepresenting anything that anyone else has said here. If you are accusing me of doing so, please provide specific examples. In regards to your question, what I said above that was: Originally by: Ledif Nieht I completely agree, we need to stop with this apologist nonsense of "respecting all beliefs" and identify and vehemently oppose that which is objectively harmful to our society. In the next post, the following was said: Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel You might want to read CCP's Forum Rules. Be respectful of others at all times. The purpose of the forum is to provide a platform for the exchange of ideas. Occasionally, there will be conflicts that arise when people voice opinions. Be courteous when disagreeing with others. It is possible to disagree without being insulting. This statement implied that I was being disrespectful of others to which I issued my reply: Originally by: Ledif Nieht Your interpretation of the rules and of my comments is inept. I said nothing about disrespecting the person as an individual, I am talking about disrespecting immoral and fabricated belief systems. If a person takes attack of their fabricated beliefs to be an attack on themselves, then they are the ones who are out of line and perhaps shouldn't associate themselves so closely with something that opens them up to criticism. Your post is, in a microcosm, exactly what I was pointing out. People are unable to separate disrespect of an individual (as a person) and disrespect of a belief that is so obviously damaging to our society. If I said that I believed that Elvis was the son of god, and didn't die but ascended to his throne on Mars (where we can't see him or detect him because of his magical force fields), would you say "well that is a valid belief and I respect it"? No, it is ridiculous and it deserves to be repudiated and disrespected. The same thing goes to the currently dominant theistic belief systems. There is no evidence to support any of their fantastic claims, and religion (in general) is objectively bad for our society. That is why, I think, it needs to be disrespected and opposed. I hope that is more clear for you now. I am opposed to respecting beliefs, just because they exist (as demonstrated by my example above). Stupid and ignorant beliefs and belief systems need to be opposed.
InUrJita CheckinUrPrice	Posted - 2010.01.26 22:31:00 - [93] Originally by: Hel O'Ween Originally by: InUrJita CheckinUrPrice "There's only two things I hate in this world. People who are intolerant of other people's cultures and the Dutch." Or, in other words, fanaticism in the drive to eradicate fanaticism is rather self defeating, wouldn't you say? No, it's not. It's the only way to deal with these people, as their blind believe in their idols makes them immune against arguments. I fully agree with Ledif's opinion. Then allow me to be more blunt. I find both intolerant atheists and intolerant theists equally irritating and equally illogical. Shut your pie holes and get over your fixation on deities.
Ledif Nieht	Posted - 2010.01.26 22:38:00 - [94] Edited by: Ledif Nieht on 26/01/2010 22:38:29 Originally by: InUrJita CheckinUrPrice Then allow me to be more blunt. I find both intolerant atheists and intolerant theists equally irritating and equally illogical. Shut your pie holes and get over your fixation on deities. I really couldn't care less what you find irritating, but your accusation of being illogical only betrays an apologist mindset. I will not shut up, nor will I ever stop opposing theism (this has nothing to do with deism). If you don't like it, then move on.

CCP Zymurgist Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.26 22:57:00 - [95] Thread cleaned of some trolling and off topic posts. Locking thread, the conversation has run its course and is turning into trolling and personal attacks. Zymurgist Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us



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