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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 5 post(s) |
Morphisat
Hidden Agenda Deep Space Engineering
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Posted - 2010.01.27 13:56:00 -
[31]
Originally by: GM Horse Purchasing ISK from a RMTer, however, supports ratting and mining bots, account hackers, credit card fraudsters and other extremely undesirable elements which have a very large negative impact on the game. A large quantity of ISK is injected into the economy, as macro ratters and mission runners create vast quantities of ISK out of thin air.
Ah so you do know about those ? Take a look in Sivala where uyuyueyr and his friends ybnnsjhjh and qwtyty are mission running 23/7 for at least a few months already now.
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Boomershoot
Caldari Suddenly Ninjas
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Posted - 2010.01.27 13:56:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
Originally by: GM Nova
Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.
I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Dominion
http://i465.photobucket.com/albums/rr16/thejake/applause.gif Image changed to URL as per the forum rules. StevieSG
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Boppi
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.01.27 14:04:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
Originally by: GM Nova
Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.
I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Dominion
That's pure beauty right there.
Originally by: GM Horse blurf
Your name, your face, your post. It's just so fitting. ___________________________
1st lol umad? omgwtf! cu on teh battlefield hurfblurf post with ur main derp Toasting in an epic bread hurr |
Koba Kyogen
Trojan Trolls Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2010.01.27 14:25:00 -
[34]
Originally by: RJ Nobel Why, hello CCP employee! Obvious attempt at spinning "the only cause of hacked accounts is ISK sellers" is obvious.
Word, OP seems a little fishy.
Why turn a personal ISK cascade fail into a glowy public service announcement? The over cheesage on the "rich experiences I missed" and the other trite bits - gives me pause.
KK
Originally by: CCP Sharkbait we are screwed. delaying startup again.
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Suzy Holmes
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Posted - 2010.01.27 14:32:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Koba Kyogen
Originally by: RJ Nobel Why, hello CCP employee! Obvious attempt at spinning "the only cause of hacked accounts is ISK sellers" is obvious.
Word, OP seems a little fishy.
Why turn a personal ISK cascade fail into a glowy public service announcement? The over cheesage on the "rich experiences I missed" and the other trite bits - gives me pause.
KK
If they already need to troll like this to give RMT the blame for the recent account theft issues, there might be a security gap on their end, actually. :D
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Abrazzar
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Posted - 2010.01.27 14:56:00 -
[36]
WTS 1600mm Reinforced Layered Aluminium Plating. Cheap, only 120mil each, send me cash and I'll deliver. Wouldn't want them Joves reading your minds, now would you? --------
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Chatoba Zatah
Amarr Yanu Zatah Damaya
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Posted - 2010.01.27 15:18:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Swiftgaze ... But stop mistaking me for stoopid.
If you'd like for that to happen, stop making posts like that.
It's a shame to see various posts in this thread made by people that can't seem to grasp the differences between RMT and ETC/PLEX, and instead feel the need to be cynical, ignore the facts and treat CCP as if they're the big bad wolf (no pun intended).
It's really rather simple: in order for any RMT to obtain ISK to sell, they do things such as hacking accounts and running mining and ratting bots that generate ISK 23 hours a day, 7 days a week - and thus pouring ISK into the economy on a scale that is very disproportionate to what a human player would do. What's also disproportionate is the processing load they cause on the EVE cluster by doing this.
In comparison, ETC/Plex doesn't have these drawbacks. No accounts get hacked. And even if the buyer choses to obtain the ISK through mining and/or ratting, it is a finite amount of time and ISK. After all, a human player doesn't play 390+ hours a month non-stop just to obtain the ISK for that PLEX, and the time that is actually spent paying for that PLEX doesn't cause a disproportionate load on the server: one normal human player load per account.
It also allows those of us with a tight budget to still play the game, making for more EVE players. And on top of that, the money involved ends up in CCP's wallet rather than some RMT. Remember them? They're this games company from Iceland that make this internet spaceships game you like to play.
In short: you're more than welcome to dislike ETC/PLEX, but please don't compare it to RMT. Also, CCP isn't the devil. I'm Amarr. I know about these things.
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Martina Stewart
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Posted - 2010.01.27 15:41:00 -
[38]
Vast quantities of ISK would not be generated "out of thin air" for the RMT'ers to resell were it not for the failure of CCP to properly police their servers or implement mechanisms to stop people from doing this. While I don't think any game will ever be bot/macro proof, this one seems to run rampant with them and the response to peitions is at best lethargic and at worse apathetic.
Sure the obvious propaganda OP presents a valid point. We, the player population, create a demand that should be stifled to reduce the profitibiliy of RMT'ers and I encourage such things when not done through methods that seem deceptive.
But hey, some of that demand might not exist were skill training not based on how long I've been shelling out money to CCP. Why would I even want to undock and do something when, mostly, my actions haven't much impact on my SP/hour rate? I can just feed an RMT's family, but some high end implants and sit there never doing anything because there isn't any reason to try.
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Klingz
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.27 15:47:00 -
[39]
Originally by: GM Horse
Purchasing ISK from a RMTer, however, supports ratting and mining bots, account hackers, credit card fraudsters and other extremely undesirable elements which have a very large negative impact on the game. A large quantity of ISK is injected into the economy, as macro ratters and mission runners create vast quantities of ISK out of thin air.
Excuse me, but the only one who can create "A large quantity of ISK is injected into the economy", is CCP itself.
If anyone make use of macros to mine or missions, can not possible "just create" ISK. This ISK is coming from killing NPC's or selling the ore/modules. So how can a macrominer or missionbot "create" ISK? Do they have access to the sourcecode or servers...
So I do not see that there is any difference between buying Plex (from CCP) and selling for ingame ISK or buy ISK from ISK-sellers for RLM any difference. For me this is the same, except, buying PLEX is blessed by CCP and one use CCP as a middleman.
I question sometimes myself: Are CCP selling ISK for RLM? ------------ Dozar Klingz
I smoke.... It's not easy to be green when you're small. But it's worse to be a cowered when you're big. Smokers are also humens... but not that long... |
Void Kraken
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Posted - 2010.01.27 15:54:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Klingz I question sometimes myself: Are CCP selling ISK for RLM?
Ever thought about treating your delusional paranoia?
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Samantha U
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Posted - 2010.01.27 15:59:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Klingz
Originally by: GM Horse
Purchasing ISK from a RMTer, however, supports ratting and mining bots, account hackers, credit card fraudsters and other extremely undesirable elements which have a very large negative impact on the game. A large quantity of ISK is injected into the economy, as macro ratters and mission runners create vast quantities of ISK out of thin air.
Excuse me, but the only one who can create "A large quantity of ISK is injected into the economy", is CCP itself.
If anyone make use of macros to mine or missions, can not possible "just create" ISK. This ISK is coming from killing NPC's or selling the ore/modules. So how can a macrominer or missionbot "create" ISK? Do they have access to the sourcecode or servers...
So I do not see that there is any difference between buying Plex (from CCP) and selling for ingame ISK or buy ISK from ISK-sellers for RLM any difference. For me this is the same, except, buying PLEX is blessed by CCP and one use CCP as a middleman.
I question sometimes myself: Are CCP selling ISK for RLM?
The key difference between buying GTCs and buying ISK from sellers is that CCP gets the RL cash and the GTC helps someone keep playing the game when they purchase it from you. Simply buying ISK does neither of these things, the money goes into someone else pocket and the ISK does not benefit anyone but the person who bought it. Plus you could end up with some nasty negative effects from buying ISK.
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FlyinS
Caldari New Eden Redistribution
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Posted - 2010.01.27 16:04:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
Originally by: GM Nova
Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.
I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Dominion
I lol'd
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Chatoba Zatah
Amarr Yanu Zatah Damaya
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Posted - 2010.01.27 16:06:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Klingz
Excuse me, but the only one who can create "A large quantity of ISK is injected into the economy", is CCP itself.
If anyone make use of macros to mine or missions, can not possible "just create" ISK. This ISK is coming from killing NPC's or selling the ore/modules. So how can a macrominer or missionbot "create" ISK? Do they have access to the sourcecode or servers...
You're taking things too literally. It's merely referred to as 'Generating ISK' as the source is theoretically infinite. Whether it's rat bounties, mission rewards, loot or ore, the supply is virtually endless. E.g. when you kill a rat, the bounty is added to your wallet. There is no previous owner of that ISK, it comes out of thin air. Thus, the ISK is 'generated'.
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Swiftgaze
Elysium Holdings Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.27 16:13:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Swiftgaze on 27/01/2010 16:17:10 Edited by: Swiftgaze on 27/01/2010 16:16:50
Originally by: Chatoba Zatah
Originally by: Swiftgaze ... But stop mistaking me for stoopid.
If you'd like for that to happen, stop making posts like that.
...
It's really rather simple: in order for any RMT to obtain ISK to sell, they do things such as hacking accounts and running mining and ratting bots that generate ISK 23 hours a day, 7 days a week - and thus pouring ISK into the economy on a scale that is very disproportionate to what a human player would do. What's also disproportionate is the processing load they cause on the EVE cluster by doing this.
In comparison, ETC/Plex doesn't have these drawbacks. No accounts get hacked. And even if the buyer choses to obtain the ISK through mining and/or ratting, it is a finite amount of time and ISK. After all, a human player doesn't play 390+ hours a month non-stop just to obtain the ISK for that PLEX, and the time that is actually spent paying for that PLEX doesn't cause a disproportionate load on the server: one normal human player load per account.
It also allows those of us with a tight budget to still play the game, making for more EVE players. And on top of that, the money involved ends up in CCP's wallet rather than some RMT. Remember them? They're this games company from Iceland that make this internet spaceships game you like to play.
You didn't understand any part of my previous posting of which you only quoted the last sentence, did you?
I mean seriously, I'm sick and tired of people only quoting the part of postings that they understand and then pretend that they have any kind of justification to smear their verbal diarrhea RIGHT in my face.
Thank you.
EDIT: It's probably my fault. I need to stop adding those summarization lines to the end of my postings. All people do is quote it and come up with the same inane gibberish that I proved wrong in the entire posting BEFORE that last line.
Every single ****ing time.
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Syringe
Incura
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Posted - 2010.01.27 16:29:00 -
[45]
Originally by: b3amM3up Sc0tti3 learnt
Clearly not... --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question. |
Swiftgaze
Elysium Holdings Elysium Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.27 16:31:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Swiftgaze on 27/01/2010 16:32:29 - (i want a delete posting option)
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Chatoba Zatah
Amarr Yanu Zatah Damaya
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Posted - 2010.01.27 17:01:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Swiftgaze You didn't understand any part of my previous posting of which you only quoted the last sentence, did you?
I mean seriously, I'm sick and tired of people only quoting the part of postings that they understand and then pretend that they have any kind of justification to smear their verbal diarrhea RIGHT in my face.
Thank you.
EDIT: It's probably my fault. I need to stop adding those summarization lines to the end of my postings. All people do is quote it and come up with the same inane gibberish that I proved wrong in the entire posting BEFORE that last line.
Every single ****ing time.
Actually, I understood your post just fine. But I believe you were somewhat short-sighted and posting in the same manner as several others, as I described in my own post (the part you left out when you quoted my post):
Originally by: Chatoba Zatah It's a shame to see various posts in this thread made by people that can't seem to grasp the differences between RMT and ETC/PLEX, and instead feel the need to be cynical, ignore the facts and treat CCP as if they're the big bad wolf (no pun intended).
This is what I believe you were doing. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me you were trying to make a case that CCP is pretending you're stupid by feeding you the "RMT is bad" stories, as they're really only against RMT because it doesn't earn them money. Which I think is unfair to CCP, and I also think things aren't that black and white.
What I did next, rather than resolving to swearing or referring to someone's post as 'verbal diarrhea', was to make an attempt to shed some light on the differences between ETC/PLEX and RMT as I see them, as I believe there are some important things that seem to easily get overlooked by various posters (you included).
Have you actually read what I posted though? I can't help but think you only read the referral to your post and felt you needed to quickly post an insult. I've addressed several of the misconceptions from your own post in there, but alas, I didn't quote you as you weren't the only one. I doubt that'd have made you feel better though.
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Mel'h N'gih
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Posted - 2010.01.27 17:02:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Koba Kyogen
Originally by: RJ Nobel Why, hello CCP employee! Obvious attempt at spinning "the only cause of hacked accounts is ISK sellers" is obvious.
Word, OP seems a little fishy.
Why turn a personal ISK cascade fail into a glowy public service announcement? The over cheesage on the "rich experiences I missed" and the other trite bits - gives me pause.
KK
Agreed, obvious shill is obvious. |
Zenst
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.01.27 17:53:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Captain Thunk
Originally by: GM Nova
Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.
I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Dominion
Best laugh I've had all year.
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Dr Karsun
Gallente HUSARIA Curatores Veritatis Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.27 18:21:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Zenst
Originally by: Captain Thunk
Originally by: GM Nova
Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.
I dunno, it's pretty hard to top Dominion
Best laugh I've had all year.
But this is TRUE! I earned my self enough to now easily pay my account monthly for months to come thanks to dominion. Hulk price rise FTW.
But I still can't afford a freighter :(
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Khors
Amtek Inc
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Posted - 2010.01.27 18:25:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Abrazzar WTS 1600mm Reinforced Layered Aluminium Plating. Cheap, only 120mil each, send me cash and I'll deliver. Wouldn't want them Joves reading your minds, now would you?
This.
-
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Fifinella
Caldari Re-Awakened Technologies Inc Electus Matari
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Posted - 2010.01.27 19:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: b3amM3up Sc0tti3 I have nothing left now and my gaming experience has been ruined...
What gaming experience? Making ISK, getting standings, training skills, that's the game experience. You did none of them, so you have no gaming experience of EVE.
You paid for a game, then you paid for someone else to play the game for you. How clever was that? Next time, just toss money out a window. If you do your math right, it'll be cheaper than EVE.
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Wideen
Total Mayhem. Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2010.01.27 19:27:00 -
[53]
Originally by: GM Nova Thank you for sharing your bad experience with us. This is an interesting story because it is true. A vast majority of the ISK being sold is stolen off hacked accounts.
Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.
The road to riches, the means of gaining wealth can be an adventure which I am sure most players can relate to.
Yours,
GM Nova
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.01.27 19:39:00 -
[54]
Edited by: Zeba on 27/01/2010 19:40:49
Heh this thread has it all. A silly op making up stories along with gm's trying to spin said story into an anti rtm spiel with the cherry on top of bitter vets trying to spin the gm's responces into a conspiracy theory because omg fleet fights and the sov payment system suck and so the rest of eve must also suck emoRAAAAAGE!!!!!!
The forums always make my day..
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
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Joghurt Drink
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Posted - 2010.01.27 19:47:00 -
[55]
Good thing that the times where people foolishly thought their government was out to get them are over. Now people are getting more intelligent and see that in reality its really CCP, a company creating a recreational game, thats trying to get inside their minds and twist them to their propaganda.
But oh no, let me tell you we see right through their nefarious plans thanks to our superior intelligence and gifts of perception, though our grand abilities of logical deduction and a tinfoil head do help too ofc.
On a related note, i heard ccp is sending out hyperwave mindrays through EvE-o since dominion and we need a new tritanium head foil to protect us, where can i buy them?
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Virgil Travis
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.27 20:14:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Joghurt Drink On a related note, i heard ccp is sending out hyperwave mindrays through EvE-o since dominion
They better be, that's what I'm paying for
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Taedrin
Gallente The Green Cross DEFI4NT
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Posted - 2010.01.27 20:15:00 -
[57]
What's so odd about a public apology? I've seen more than a few of them on the forums in the past. Just because someone is saying something in CCP's favor doesn't automatically mean that it's a CCP propaganda scheme to get people to buy PLEX instead of RMT ISK. ---------- There is always a choice. The choice might not be easy, nor simple, nor the options be what you desire - but, nevertheless, the choice is there to be made. |
Pesets
The Hunt Club
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Posted - 2010.01.27 20:20:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Droog 1 Players can get rich without playing Eve through selling PLEX. It's hardly an adventure and it doesn't encourage people to log in and play the game.(The exact same reason CCP gave for not wanting to implement a skill queue)
Stop selling PLEX.
Some Eve players do in fact have lives, and cannot afford to spend several hours a day grinding through lvl4 missions (as exciting as they might be), for the sake of making the experience of being gang banged for lulz more rewarding. Making isk through selling PLEX is just an equalizer that lets working adults be more competitive with "hardcore gamers" - just like the skill training system.
Also, selling PLEX actually helps the economy by making isk circulate rather than stockpile in someone's wallet until [s]he quits out of boredom. Isk is redistributed, not created out of nothing, so it does not really deteriorate the economy.
From a player's perspective, the difference between selling PLEX and buying isk for rl cash is that the latter isn't secure, isn't legal (all in-game items are CCP property after all, so you don't really have a right to sell it), and will likely get you banned. From CCP's perspective, the difference is that RMTs mean lost profit. From in-game economy perspective, RMTs by themselves wouldn't make much more damage that PLEX trading, but in reality they do since assets are effectively destroyed as a result of bans. Note that RMT-related activities, such as macro-mining, do negatively affect the game economy - but that's a different story.
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Steve Celeste
Caldari Overdogs
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Posted - 2010.01.27 20:22:00 -
[59]
Power.
Levelling.
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Asuka Smith
Gallente Noir.
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Posted - 2010.01.27 20:23:00 -
[60]
Edited by: Asuka Smith on 27/01/2010 20:25:43
Originally by: Lo3d3R Edited by: Lo3d3R on 27/01/2010 11:55:29
Originally by: GM Nova Thank you for sharing your bad experience with us. This is an interesting story because it is true. A vast majority of the ISK being sold is stolen off hacked accounts.
Buying ISK is the worst thing you can do in this game. It ruins your game experience, it ruins other people's game experience and deteriorates and corrupts our gameworld.
The road to riches, the means of gaining wealth can be an adventure which I am sure most players can relate to.
Yours,
GM Nova
Ok so I geuss buying plex and then selling them in game is not the same as buying isk.() Offcourse I am against any form of cheating but the whole plex thing seems simular as you are injecting reallife money directly in to the ingame economy.
Would love a reply on that.
You should take an economics course at the uni mate it is not very complicated...
www.chinagold.com - If you buy from this site you give them real money, and they send you ingame ISK. The source of their ISK is macro mission runners and macro belt ratters/miners.
GTCs: You buy a GTC from a site and sell it to a real player who worked hard for his ISK, actually sitting at his computer and running missions etc. He sends you his ISK and you send him the GTC. He gets game time, you get ISK, and CCP gets the real life $$$$.
Now, if this still seems trivial to you... GTCs have a marginal effect on the economy at most. RMT (going to the ISK seller website) promotes macro ISK generation which creates rampant inflation and destroys the economy.
EDIT: Now, the REAL reason plexing is allowed and chinagold is not is because CCP wants the money. With plexes they get the money, with chinagold they do not. The transactions are going to happen either way and CCP knows it so they decide to get their cut.
That said, I personally do not get the money either way so I prefer the CCP-sponsored less inflation and no macros in my game method of doing it.
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