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lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.01 12:31:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: Laphroaig Cask
Would be nice if there was copy times and stuff too on the research page.
Its in. :]
Originally by: Imuran
Suggestion for the Shopping list - Total Remaing Items Display. Show the current price for the items and possibly allow the prices to be changed.
When placing buy orders from this screen I find myself switching back and forth to the manage prices screen to look at what I should be buying at or updating the prices for what I have actually paid.
Done that. You'll now see now price per unit + total price. You can update them from there too.
And I also implemented the feature to update a separated list - additionally to the global "update oldest list first" feature. :]
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warmandsunnyjita
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Posted - 2010.04.02 05:03:00 -
[122]
Edited by: warmandsunnyjita on 02/04/2010 05:03:25
all i have to say is good job dude. I was going to build this exactly but you did a way better job than I ever would have. Isk donations go to who?
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lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.02 07:26:00 -
[123]
Originally by: warmandsunnyjita
all i have to say is good job dude. I was going to build this exactly but you did a way better job than I ever would have. Isk donations go to who?
Thanks, glad you like it. :]
Donations to me \ / ...don't forget to include your xn7 login name in the transfer reason, so I can add a little donators benefit to your account. :]
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Shega Und
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Posted - 2010.04.06 06:56:00 -
[124]
This is better than hot chocolate sauce poured all over ice cream!
Would you ever consider releasing this as open source? Would hate to see this product vanish
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lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.06 13:31:00 -
[125]
Originally by: Shega Und
This is better than hot chocolate sauce poured all over ice cream!
I won't take responsibility if you try to lick or eat your screen then. 
Originally by: Shega Und
Would you ever consider releasing this as open source? Would hate to see this product vanish
Rest assured that it will never vanish. If for some reason I should decide to discontinue development one day the source will be made public, to be ran on your local or online webserver/webspace. It is also possible that I might release it as a package when I'm "done" developing one day - but don't count on that one for now.
Currently I'm improving/adding things pretty much every day I can spare some time, which would result in additional work for each change to be packaged as a new release. Code is rarely commented/documented atm, as only I am working on it. Also I kinda like to earn some fruits for the seeds I've planted - I think/hope you can understand that. If you would have put that kind of effort in to something, you too probably wouldn't want to give it all away that early. :]
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Shega Und
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Posted - 2010.04.06 21:55:00 -
[126]
No probs, completely understand!
I do a little bit of PHP and SQL programming myself so if you ever need a hand just shout. What you have done so far has saved me hours of work in spreadsheets. Do you accept donations of any kind?
Did come up with an idea last night...
The ability to choose a T2 BPC, state or tick that is is just a sample on production cost, include any missing component BPOs with an average ME level. This would then let me quickly check on if it is worth pursuing manufacturing that item.
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lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.07 12:25:00 -
[127]
Originally by: Shega Und
Do you accept donations of any kind?
Yes, much appreciated - no reason to not accept any donation I think, unless you plan to purge your scattered assets in to my hangars.
Originally by: Shega Und
Or give the ability when adding a temporary BPO have the ability to add any missing BPOs as temporaries also
Yeah slight oversight there, should have had that option in that "missing blueprints" thingy right away. Someone else pointed me to that in game already, so the current build on my local machine already has it. Just finishing something else and it will be released. 
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lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.08 05:34:00 -
[128]
- New feature: production orders. This lets you save the components and products of a production calculation (tab "required components") in to a production order.
- Pretty much like the shopping lists, but for building stuff. Features a status-selection for each job within an order: NEW, delayed, partially in production, in production, in delivery, done.
- Presumably most useful to users that operate their industry with multiple players. As always: being in a xn7-corporation allows every member to see and take care of those orders, but only the owner may reset or delete them.
- Added the "only add temporarily"-checkbox to the "missing blueprints"-overview within the production calculation results, too.
- Some text/description/translation improvements.
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Halina Wysocki
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Posted - 2010.04.09 16:00:00 -
[129]
Edited by: Halina Wysocki on 09/04/2010 15:59:46
I've been adjusting prices in the Financial Calculations screen, and noticed every time I start typing there is a huge delay. I'm talking in the order of 10 to 20 seconds, every time I change a price. Not a big deal, but just wanted to make you aware of it.
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lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.10 03:47:00 -
[130]
Halina: such a delay sounds rather annoying than 'not being a big deal', so I made some changes to the JavaScript stuff doing those calculations. I'll send you an evemail too, interested in the circumstances that led to that "lag".
- If you experience weird behaviour or JavaScript-errors in the production calculator: click the BPM top link so you only see the blank BPM navigation and press CTRL+F5 to force the browser to reload all cached files!
- Made some substantial changes to the JS-functions for production time and financial calculations, in order to improve client browser speed upon changes.
- Instead of directly accessing the input-fields every time something changes, their values are now ported to in-document arrays. This increased the pagesize a bit, but thats a fair trade for the improved reaction times.
- Tested in IE 7 and FF 3.5 - pretty quick response, even with a lot (50+) of products. I still recommend Firefox, since its JS-engine is quite a bunch faster.
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Imuran
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Posted - 2010.04.10 10:33:00 -
[131]
Edited by: Imuran on 10/04/2010 10:35:36
I am experiencing that delay as well more pronounced on multiple type builds (say 1 of each recon)
Start to modify the sell price of one of the recons and as soon as you start typing the new price it goes off and calculates the financials locking up the browser.
Edit: Dont think I have checked the above since the last batch of changes
On the production jobs side of things - good work :) However (here it comes :) ) there appears to be no distinction between adding a NEW item and adding a "In production item" when you come to review the job they are all marked as done.
The idea of the status entry was to be able to keep track of the build, see which components are built, see which ones are building and see which ones still need to be built.
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Imuran
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Posted - 2010.04.10 12:20:00 -
[132]
Just checked the delay in the Financial Calcs, much better now - good job :)
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lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.10 12:31:00 -
[133]
Edited by: lord cyrez on 10/04/2010 12:34:11
Originally by: Imuran
I am experiencing that delay as well ... Edit: Dont think I have checked the above since the last batch of changes
Please give it a try and let me know how things are working.
It's hard for me to reproduce that since my machine runs it just fine - even with a huge bunch of mixed products.
Nothing special. AMD 64 6000+ DualCore, 4GB RAM. I've heard of a QuadCore with 8GB RAM having that too, so it's not about computing power. Using Firefox as a browser here, since the Internet Explorers JS-engine can be creeping slow.
May I ask what kind of computer you have and which browser you are using?
Also: being idle for long times could get your browser slow as well. Server-sided the session gets terminated after 24 minutes of being idle - I am circumventing this with a tiny JS that sends a request every 20 minutes (for your convenience, getting logged out all the time would suck). Some people have a way bigger keep-alive-ping-counter than total pagehits - guess they just go to sleep with the browser open and continue to use it the next day. Maybe it only occurs when your session is already running for a while?
Originally by: Imuran
On the production jobs side of things - good work :) However (here it comes :) ) there appears to be no distinction between adding a NEW item and adding a "In production item" when you come to review the job they are all marked as done.
The idea of the status entry was to be able to keep track of the build, see which components are built, see which ones are building and see which ones still need to be built.
I am not fully understanding what you mean, sorry. 
This is how it works now - maybe you see a point of confusion and we can improve it:
- calculate stuff and save it or create a manual production order
- update status to "partially in production" or "in production" when you install the jobs
- once you deliver them, enter the newly built amounts and change status to "in delivery" or "done".
- if you enter the full required amount, it automatically selects "done" if you didn't choose "in delivery" or "done" yourself.
Is it possibly the last point? Are you entering the amounts when you install the job and not when you deliver it? I assumed that a job is done when the production is done - delivered from factory line, ready for pickup.
//edit: sneaky post while I was typing  ...good to know it's better now. Currently online, if you want to have a quick chat / talk about that production order feature, hit me up in our public channel "xn7" or open a convo.
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Grentana
Caldari
The first genesis
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Posted - 2010.04.11 05:22:00 -
[134]
Before I get into what I have found during my testing I want to say THANK YOU VERY MUCH for this amazing tool. I wish CCP would make it easier to import our game data into this, or any, tool but that has been a long standing issue with Industry for more than just this fine tool.
Production Orders
I think for this to have the maximum usability it would be best to have these Production Orders start with the purchase of materials and follow the process to finish. Inventors could see if they need to copy T1 BPO's or invent T2 BPC's or if the needed items are available to invent. Builders could see if the minerals, the BPO's, BPC's and components are available before they log in to start building. I know there is a separate purchasing feature but for efficiency of use this should be part of a line process so that it can be easily followed without going to this place, then that and then over there. Ideally one process creates the stuff that needs to be purchased, the BPO's that need to be copied, the BPC's that need to be invented, the components that need to be built and the final product that needs to be assembled. Members could then choose the Production Order and see what stage it is in and what needs to be done. Has everything been purchased, anything need copying or inventing, items to be built or assembled?
Decryptor Calculation
A nice feature I have been playing with is the Decryptor Calculation. This feature allows you to decide what kind of invention is to be done to get the resultant T2 BPC. It's main feature it to allow users to decide what the most profitable invention process is given the cost of Meta-Items and decryptors. It also feeds into the production process. If you choose that Invented BPC it will add the Meta-Items and decryptors used to invent the BPC. I am not sure how accurate the calculations are but from my experience the % chance is not quite accurate for Invention in game. Not your tool specifically but any that caclulates this % chance. If the % is over optimistic the extra items can carry through to the next order. If the % is too pessimistic then more items would need to be purchased to get the final BPC count. Regardless of accuracy it gives a starting point for the needs of BPC invention process.
For completeness maybe there could be a new module that allows Inventors to track their success/failure ratio. This would add a lot of database tracking if all the jobs are stored historically. To alleviate this the system could just keep the success/failure totals of different BPC's instead of every single success and failure run. If the user wants to keep their own database of their successes and failures for each line item then this info can be exported to Excel before being compressed to a total for each BPC type. This BPC success rate could then be used by the Production Calculation tool to better forcast needs for the process. To make this more usable there should be the ability for the corp to use the standard calculated success %, an overall corp success/failure % or one for a specific member if they are the ones responsible for specific types of invention. I know we have specific members who invent specific racial BPCs since it takes so long to train this stuff. I think this added feature would take a bit of coding. Not a quick addition like some of these changes. It would be another module.
What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world. - Albert Einstein
Intelligence has limits. Stupidity does not. - Mark Twain
I can remember when the air was c |
Grentana
Caldari
The first genesis
|
Posted - 2010.04.11 05:29:00 -
[135]
Production Order Issues
1) The Production Orders page shows the total of all orders when you first go to the screen and when you hit 'View' it shows that specific order. It would be better if the total did not go away and when "View" is hit a new section showing the individual order would be inserted above the total . Basically, duplicate the "Total remaining items" section and change the title to match the name of the order with the details of the order then insert it above the existing "Total remaining items". This way you can see the status of the individual order and the overall status in one go. This would allow one to apply items to either an individual order or all orders as a whole without having to go back to the top and choosing the "Production Orders" option again and loosing the individual order display. This new inserted panel would also need its own button to match the items to the specific order while preserving the button to match items to all orders in the lower section. When either button is used the Totals display would need updating. To make this a bit more complicated, and more flexible for users, add a check box to each order and a button to view all checked orders totalled together. You could even take away the "view" button and use the checkbox and "view checked" button instead. If the user wants to look at one order then they only check the box for that order.
2) Status on "Total remaining items" does not change.
3) When adding matching items to an order and status is still "New" feature should automatically choose "partially in production" if not all items completed or "done" if all items completed.
Not sure if you have hit the nail on the head for the Status as of yet. There needs to be a column to show what is in production and a column for what has been produced, which you have. So someone puts into production 100 units of whatever and there are a total of 500 units to be produced. Builder enters 100 into text box and chooses status of "In Production". The "In Production" column gets incremented while the "Remaining amount" column does not change. Lalalala the production jobs finish and the builder puts in the # completed and status of "Delivered". The "In Production" column gets decremented as does the "Remaining amount" column by the number of items that just completed. If more items have completed than were previously set as being in production because someone forgot to update the site, then the "In Production" goes to zero and "Remaining amount" gets decremented by the amount that were just completed. Of course if more items are produced than were originally slated for production you could do a couple things. 1) Ask the user if they want to apply the overage to other open orders. If yes then bring up a list of open orders that the user can checkbox and have the overage applied to those orders. Have the overage amount displayed so that it can be compared to the number of open items in the displayed orders. 2) If the user does not want to apply the overage or there are no orders with open items of that type then flag the "Remaining amount" red and put the amount of the overage into that box. Mabe even changing the title of the "Remaining amount" column to "Overage".
I do not see a need for the "partially in prod." or "in delivery" statuses but others may. Some corps may have people that can see the status but not deliver and have those users update the status on the site.
4) If you forget to put in a name for the order it opens a new screen and gives an error but if you go back to try and save it properly you can not. May just be me.
What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world. - Albert Einstein
Intelligence has limits. Stupidity does not. - Mark Twain
I can remember when the air was c |
lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.11 16:14:00 -
[136]
First - thanks for your valuable and extensive feedback.
I have received additional input and ideas from others by evemail and I'll rework the production orders to be more useful. Don't expect it to get everything you and others forwarded there in one go, but it will evolve over time. :]
Originally by: Grentana
... start with the purchase of materials and follow the process to finish. ... see if they need to copy T1 BPO's or invent T2 BPC's ... see if the minerals, the BPO's, BPC's and components are available before they log in to start building.
Sounds like a fairly extensive interface (and work required), but I guess it could be incredibly useful when featuring all this. I think I'll improve its current state by some bits, but for this I'm probably better off starting from scratch with both the production orders and shopping lists as a combined feature, serving both needs.
Originally by: Grentana
I am not sure how accurate the calculations are but from my experience the % chance is not quite accurate for Invention in game. Not your tool specifically but any that caclulates this % chance.
It is as accurate as I can get it to be. Your ingame % will always deviate from the calculated average, since the RNG can give you lucky streaks and fail streaks. You'll probably only reach the rough average % after several hundred inventions.
Originally by: Grentana
If the % is over optimistic the extra items can carry through to the next order. If the % is too pessimistic then more items would need to be purchased to get the final BPC count.
Thats where you can decide yourself how much consumables shall be applied to the production calculator by setting the "consumption multiplier". As above, you can expect a lot of things - but reality will differ, since its chance based and theres no way I can predict your invention results. 
Originally by: Grentana
... maybe there could be a new module that allows Inventors to track their success/failure ratio. ... I think this added feature would take a bit of coding. ...
This one was suggested by Miss Xerox (iirc) already and its something I have in my 2do list for the bigger features. I want a full API integration with all your past and current science+industry jobs, with useful overviews and history trackings. Sadly that kind of data requires the full API key, which many are not willing to hand out. Understandable for sure, but it "devalues" the work I have to put in to it when only a few people use it in the end.  I'd really really love a new API system, where people can generate infinite keys, each key with different access rights (like key 1 = only char name and skill sheet, key 2 = char name, skill sheet, science/industry past+current, key 3 = everything except corp info and assets) - but I guess that'll never happen.
Originally by: Grentana
1) ... It would be better if the total did not go away and when "View" is hit a new section showing the individual order would be inserted above the total. ...
Will do that. :]
Originally by: Grentana
2) Status on "Total remaining items" does not change.
Correct, since the status on the totals could be mixed. Order 1 could contain "delayed" items, order 2 could contain "in prod." items.
Originally by: Grentana
3) When adding matching items to an order and status is still "New" feature should automatically choose "partially in production" if not all items completed or "done" if all items completed.
It already sets them to "done" if everything is built - but yeah, it could be a bit smarter. ;]
Originally by: Grentana
4) If you forget to put in a name for the order it opens a new screen and gives an error but if you go back to try and save it properly you can not. May just be me.
That button is disabled once you click it, since some people still double-click form submit buttons. Will see if I can work out something better (that still is manipulation and user-error safe).
CCP: 4k chars are not enough
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Imuran
The first genesis
Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.04.11 17:35:00 -
[137]
Quote:
That button is disabled once you click it, since some people still double-click form submit buttons. Will see if I can work out something better (that still is manipulation and user-error safe).
Sort of fallen foul of that as well - trying to create multiple production jobs for the same thing ie Thanny 1, Thanny 2
Have to go back and reload the screen - no biggy though :)
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Peanyra
Minmatar
Missioneers
Deadspace Nexus
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Posted - 2010.04.12 10:41:00 -
[138]
Good work Cyrez!
I've recently started using the BPM and I'm very pleased with it. I've used to "financial calculations" to find several profitable products in my region :)
Speaking of region, I have suggestion:
When I grab prices, I like to grab them from evemetrics and for my own region (metropolis). I'd like the BPM to remember my choices so I don't have to select them every time.
I have another suggestion as well:
When I use the financial calculations for a group of blueprints, say 3 types of ammo, i get the total profits and total profit percentage. In my case, 2 out of the 3 types were very profitable, and the third one was actualle a small loss.
I'd like to way to see if one of the items in a group will result in a loss. Or maybe display the profit percentage per item in addition to the total
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Grentana
Caldari
The first genesis
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Posted - 2010.04.12 22:01:00 -
[139]
Originally by: lord cyrez
Sounds like a fairly extensive interface (and work required), but I guess it could be incredibly useful when featuring all this. I think I'll improve its current state by some bits, but for this I'm probably better off starting from scratch with both the production orders and shopping lists as a combined feature, serving both needs.
You seem to have quite a bit of functionality already. You know your code better than anyone so you know best as to what needs doing. I was thinking you would have different modules for each piece then have an over process that calls each module to simulate the production process as a whole. If someone wanted to just use one of the pieces they could just run that individually.
Originally by: lord cyrez
Thats where you can decide yourself how much consumables shall be applied to the production calculator by setting the "consumption multiplier". As above, you can expect a lot of things - but reality will differ, since its chance based and theres no way I can predict your invention results.
Do you feed the calulated % chance of success into the formula to figure out the number of T1 BPC's, Meta-Items and decryptors are needed to achieve the final result? So if the calculated chance of success is 50% then you would need to double the attempts to get a 100% quantity. You could allow users to choose between this and the "consumption multiplier" with a radio button.
Originally by: lord cyrez
Originally by: Grentana
... maybe there could be a new module that allows Inventors to track their success/failure ratio. ... I think this added feature would take a bit of coding. ...
This one was suggested by Miss Xerox (iirc) already and its something I have in my 2do list for the bigger features.
Miss Xerox has made some great suggestions
Originally by: lord cyrez
I want a full API integration with all your past and current science+industry jobs, with useful overviews and history trackings.
I was envisioning the user doing this manually. One can only have a max of 11 jobs so doing this whenever they finish would not be too much of a task for the user. Were you thinking of keeping all the entries from the user in your database or just the overall success rate % by T2 BPC? Using the API would be a lot easier on the user :)
Originally by: lord cyrez
I'd really really love a new API system, where people can generate infinite keys, each key with different access rights (like key 1 = only char name and skill sheet, key 2 = char name, skill sheet, science/industry past+current, key 3 = everything except corp info and assets) - but I guess that'll never happen.
I really think this is a great idea for an API revamp. I agree it will probably not happen. :((
Originally by: Grentana
2) Status on "Total remaining items" does not change.
Correct, since the status on the totals could be mixed. Order 1 could contain "delayed" items, order 2 could contain "in prod." items.
Right. Did not think of that.
Originally by: lord cyrez
CCP: 4k chars are not enough
So true
What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world. - Albert Einstein
Intelligence has limits. Stupidity does not. - Mark Twain
I can remember when the air was c |
lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
|
Posted - 2010.04.13 09:22:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Peanyra
When I grab prices, I like to grab them from evemetrics and for my own region (metropolis). I'd like the BPM to remember my choices so I don't have to select them every time.
Added that convenient bit to my 2do-list. :]
Originally by: Peanyra
When I use the financial calculations for a group of blueprints, say 3 types of ammo, i get the total profits and total profit percentage. In my case, 2 out of the 3 types were very profitable, and the third one was actualle a small loss.
I'd like to way to see if one of the items in a group will result in a loss. Or maybe display the profit percentage per item in addition to the total
Didn't you spot the "separated profits" table yet? Or do you mean something different, which I'm not understanding now?
See this screenshot, at the bottom: http://www.xn7.de/images/screenshots/bp_prod_5.gif
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lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.13 09:26:00 -
[141]
Originally by: Grentana
You seem to have quite a bit of functionality already. You know your code better than anyone so you know best as to what needs doing. I was thinking you would have different modules for each piece then have an over process that calls each module to simulate the production process as a whole. If someone wanted to just use one of the pieces they could just run that individually.
Okay, "from scratch" was a bit exaggerated I guess. ;] ...Indeed all those material-thingys and all the other big and reusable calculations are done through functions which are easy to call and proceed from. But the new picture I see of what the "production manager" should/shall be is a lot more extensive that what it is now.
Creating the error-safe and most-flexible interface will be quite a bit of work and I'll also have to consider lots of stuff that could go "wrong" - like: I don't want to store the calculated materials and their amounts, but calculate them dynamically as needed, to not fill the database with heaploads of unnecessary crap. So I'll save the userBlueprintID and the desired amount to be built and calculate the materials when the page gets called.
Two big things to have an eye on here: first - a truckload of orders could lead to huge calculations (always assume worst cases, what if someone goes lazy/bonkers and has a total of 500 mixed orders in there...), second - what if the products or a components blueprint gets deleted from your or your members (in case of inheritance) collection in the meantime. No biggy for the material functions, they just deal with that as if there was a ME 0 blueprint. But I'll have to add a lot of warning/error/security mechanics for that to work properly I presume.
Originally by: Grentana
Do you feed the calulated % chance of success into the formula to figure out the number of T1 BPC's, Meta-Items and decryptors are needed to achieve the final result? So if the calculated chance of success is 50% then you would need to double the attempts to get a 100% quantity. You could allow users to choose between this and the "consumption multiplier" with a radio button.
The "consumption multiplier" does exactly that, it translates in to "attempts required to achieve 1 successful invention", thus multiplies the datacores, BPC, decryptor and meta item quantities. I am using this over the % chance as the user can decide if he wants to assume best or worst case - AND - the production/material calculations need a full integer multiplier. Calculating with decimal places (say 60% chance = 1.66667 consumption multiplier) would result in very confusing results. While the ISK values (profit etc.) would match your exact invention chance, you'll never be able to work like that ingame anyway. You can't try 1.6667 inventions - you'll either try 1 or 2. Don't know how to word this right, but maybe you get what I'm thinking / saying here?
Originally by: Grentana
I was envisioning the user doing this manually. One can only have a max of 11 jobs so doing this whenever they finish would not be too much of a task for the user. Were you thinking of keeping all the entries from the user in your database or just the overall success rate % by T2 BPC? Using the API would be a lot easier on the user :)
Well... correct, the task wouldn't be that big - but if I do it, I'll do it right. ;]
If I'd realize it in a manual way, people would start asking for API import anyway - at least so I guess. Such a module could calculate your real ingame % invention chances from the job history and you could feed that in to your blueprint settings, rather than taking the generally calculated chances. And there's much more to be gained than only the past. Players with multiple production/invention-characters will get a neat overview with timelines of currently running jobs, displayings like 'next free industry line: (date here) on character (name here)' etc. We will see if and how that one comes along. :]
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lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.13 09:30:00 -
[142]
Originally by: Grentana
Originally by: lord cyrez
CCP: 4k chars are not enough
So true
Cracked it again ^^
Just a last thing to add: I'm pretty busy for the next days, so there won't be much movement in development until next week. Will see how I can spare some time then again and push things forward. Definitely like the picture of what that "production manager" could become, but I'll also have to put some more thoughts in to it before I start.
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Grentana
Caldari
The first genesis
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Posted - 2010.04.13 11:23:00 -
[143]
Originally by: lord cyrez
Creating the error-safe and most-flexible interface will be quite a bit of work and I'll also have to consider lots of stuff that could go "wrong"
Right. Need to keep it safe for users so they do not break anything or overload the database either.
Originally by: lord cyrez
Calculating with decimal places (say 60% chance = 1.66667 consumption multiplier) would result in very confusing results. While the ISK values (profit etc.) would match your exact invention chance, you'll never be able to work like that ingame anyway. You can't try 1.6667 inventions - you'll either try 1 or 2. Don't know how to word this right, but maybe you get what I'm thinking / saying here?
I get it. Thanks.
Originally by: lord cyrez
Well... correct, the task wouldn't be that big - but if I do it, I'll do it right. ;]
If I'd realize it in a manual way, people would start asking for API import anyway - at least so I guess. Such a module could calculate your real ingame % invention chances from the job history and you could feed that in to your blueprint settings, rather than taking the generally calculated chances. And there's much more to be gained than only the past. Players with multiple production/invention-characters will get a neat overview with timelines of currently running jobs, displayings like 'next free industry line: (date here) on character (name here)' etc. We will see if and how that one comes along. :]
I definitely like your way better. :)
What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world. - Albert Einstein
Intelligence has limits. Stupidity does not. - Mark Twain
I can remember when the air was c |
Halina Wysocki
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Posted - 2010.04.14 17:52:00 -
[144]
Originally by: lord cyrez
Originally by: Grentana
Do you feed the calulated % chance of success into the formula to figure out the number of T1 BPC's, Meta-Items and decryptors are needed to achieve the final result? So if the calculated chance of success is 50% then you would need to double the attempts to get a 100% quantity. You could allow users to choose between this and the "consumption multiplier" with a radio button.
The "consumption multiplier" does exactly that, it translates in to "attempts required to achieve 1 successful invention", thus multiplies the datacores, BPC, decryptor and meta item quantities. I am using this over the % chance as the user can decide if he wants to assume best or worst case - AND - the production/material calculations need a full integer multiplier. Calculating with decimal places (say 60% chance = 1.66667 consumption multiplier) would result in very confusing results. While the ISK values (profit etc.) would match your exact invention chance, you'll never be able to work like that ingame anyway. You can't try 1.6667 inventions - you'll either try 1 or 2. Don't know how to word this right, but maybe you get what I'm thinking / saying here?
You can't do 1.6667 inventions jobs, but you can have 18 successes out of 30 jobs (18/30 = 1.6667). The consumption multiplier reflects this success rate and therefore should be able to be a fractional number. I don't mean I want it changed though, just being "statistically strict".
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Halina Wysocki
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Posted - 2010.04.14 18:02:00 -
[145]
Back to the delay issue I started... The modifications completely fixed it.
Tested in:
Quadcore 8 GB RAM, Win Vista 64-bit; IE8 and Firefox 3.6
QuadCore 4GB RAM, Win Vista 64-bit; IE8
Xeon 3GB RAM, Win XP Pro; IE6  (yes, it's my work computer)
Thanks again.
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Grentana
Caldari
The first genesis
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Posted - 2010.04.15 00:50:00 -
[146]
Originally by: Halina Wysocki
You can't do 1.6667 inventions jobs, but you can have 18 successes out of 30 jobs (18/30 = 1.6667). The consumption multiplier reflects this success rate and therefore should be able to be a fractional number. I don't mean I want it changed though, just being "statistically strict".
Actually, 18/30 = 0.6, which translates into 60% invention success rate. This brings up a very good point though. In order to get 18 BPCs with a success rate of 60% would require 30 attempts. So setting the consumption multiplier to 30 would give you the total requirement to achieve 18 successful BPC's. Although, this is not how the calculations work when creating production jobs. To get the right multiplier would be 1/0.60 = 1.6667. There is your 1.6667. This would be bumped up to 2x CM for an approximate consumption rate for inventing the particular T2 BPC for the production job.
A more accurate representation of the attempts needed for the number of BPC's to complete an order would be to divide the number of units to produce by the runs per BPC then divide by the success rate percentage for T2 BPC and round it up to the nearest whole number. So if I need 180 units when using a 10 run T2 BPC with a success rate of 60%. I would need 30 T2 BPC attempts. 180 units/10 runs per BPC/60% success rate = 30 T2 BPC attempts.
What really interests me is whether God had any choice in the creation of the world. - Albert Einstein
Intelligence has limits. Stupidity does not. - Mark Twain
I can remember when the air was c |
Xeross155
Minmatar
Fusion Death Inc.
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.04.15 08:31:00 -
[147]
Cyrez wonderful work, I was planning on writing something like this (But a lot more simplified), if you ever need any PHP/MySQL/JS/AJAX/CSS help just hit me up in-game I'm sure I can help out.
Oh and tbh I really prefer having it self-hosted so if you could make a public GIT/SVN repository I'd be really happy, only problems would be that you have to release sql updates if you change the DB structure.
Regards, Xeross
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Xeross' ventures into EVE |
lord cyrez
Caldari
xell network seven
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Posted - 2010.04.15 14:02:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Halina Wysocki
You can't do 1.6667 inventions jobs, but you can have 18 successes out of 30 jobs (18/30 = 1.6667). The consumption multiplier reflects this success rate and therefore should be able to be a fractional number. I don't mean I want it changed though, just being "statistically strict".
Aye, statistically it would be better that way. The ISK values would reflect the invention chances better, but the material calculations could cause confusions to a lot of people not understanding the way that works right away. Maybe we can improve that at a later point, for now it's doing the job fine I think.
Originally by: Halina Wysocki
Back to the delay issue I started... The modifications completely fixed it.
Thanks again.
\/
Originally by: Xeross155
Cyrez wonderful work
Thanks. :]
Originally by: Xeross155
Oh and tbh I really prefer having it self-hosted so if you could make a public GIT/SVN repository I'd be really happy, only problems would be that you have to release sql updates if you change the DB structure.
Probably at a later point. Got a lot more features and improvements in my 2do-list which I'm going to develop first - once I'm done with the key features I'll start cleaning up the code a bit (comments are rarely present at the moment ^^) and then I might provide it as a downloadable package or whatever. But as said before - rest assured that it'll never vanish. If, for whatever reason, I might decide to discontinue development one day everything will get published for download anyway - and then its up to you to just keep it or continue development yourself. But for now I'd like to keep it as it is, gonna "earn some fruits for my work" if one can say it like that. :]
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Dalden V
Blue Lounge Industries
New Eden Research
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Posted - 2010.04.15 15:01:00 -
[149]
Apologies if this has been asked/mentioned before, but for T2 invented items is there a way to include the T1 BPC copy times and invention time in the Production time calculations?
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Xeross155
Minmatar
Fusion Death Inc.
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2010.04.15 17:25:00 -
[150]
Some feature suggestions
- Add more of 1 blueprint at once (I have 4 Damage Control BPOs for example
- Blueprint import from EVE online
- Market import from market logs
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