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bO0bies
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Posted - 2010.01.31 10:12:00 -
[1]
As I fit my dream ship I am forced to consider several factors. I am attempting to find a good balance between active tanked dps and delievered DPS. Another consideration is ECM drones vs. Combat Drones. Obviously one makes my ship more dangerous and the other keeps my several billion isk investment a little safer. I am sure many of you have had a similar problem in the past. One question might be, "How much DPS is enough DPS to kill the average BS/CS/BC/HAC etc.. in a realitivly short period of time?" Please let me know what you have discovered has worked or doesn't work.
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Oirienicsa
Gallente Beyond Divinity Inc
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Posted - 2010.01.31 10:47:00 -
[2]
DPS is relative to many factors, it would help a little if you'd tell us which ship you're planning on fitting out.
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Siigari Kitawa
Gallente The Aduro Protocol HellFleet
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Posted - 2010.01.31 11:05:00 -
[3]
ECM drones are a great option for a solo pilot because they give you jamming capability when the rest of your ship cannot otherwise accommodate such a thing.
Combat drones on the other hand kill a target faster, however if you are indeed soloing this creates a dichotomy: will your target have combat drones or will they have ecm drones?
It makes for a lot of speculative pvp, but when it comes down to it go with your gut and fit what you want to have.
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Merin Ryskin
Peregrine Industries
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Posted - 2010.01.31 11:57:00 -
[4]
There is no such thing as "enough dps". You fit for maximum dps up to the point of diminishing returns on your investment (for example, fitting a 5th damage mod rarely does anything useful), and then you worry about the rest of the ship. If the stacking penalty was removed, we'd go right back to the "good" old days of every single low slot on your ship being used for a damage mod.
Also, active tank in PvP = fail. Fit a proper buffer tank or your several billion ISK investment will just end up a very nice wreck for someone to loot. The fact that it will probably no longer be a several billion ISK investment is just a nice bonus. -----------
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Veliria
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Posted - 2010.01.31 13:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin There is no such thing as "enough dps". You fit for maximum dps up to the point of diminishing returns on your investment (for example, fitting a 5th damage mod rarely does anything useful), and then you worry about the rest of the ship. If the stacking penalty was removed, we'd go right back to the "good" old days of every single low slot on your ship being used for a damage mod.
Also, active tank in PvP = fail. Fit a proper buffer tank or your several billion ISK investment will just end up a very nice wreck for someone to loot. The fact that it will probably no longer be a several billion ISK investment is just a nice bonus.
Solo Dual LAR rep Domi with hardeners/DCU can tank quite a bit of damage. Sure it'll die to a blob a little faster, but for solo/small gang if you can bring a serious tank (Dual LAR or similar atleast) it can have potential over a buffer tank. Only in large fleets where primaries die in seconds does active tanking really go out window.
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Darthewok
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.01.31 13:53:00 -
[6]
Assuming Buffer tanks: Average BS/CS/BC/HAC EHP = 30,000-100,000 mean 65,000
Your DPS Time taken to destroy BS/CS/BC/HAC* 300 DPS = 100-333 sec mean 217 sec 400 DPS = 75-250 sec mean 163 sec 500 DPS = 60-200 sec mean 130 sec 600 DPS = 50-167 sec mean 109 sec 700 DPS = 43-143 sec mean 93 sec 800 DPS = 38-125 sec mean 82 sec 900 DPS = 33-111 sec mean 72 sec 1000 DPS = 30-100 mean 65 sec *not taking into account sig radius, tracking, falloff, resists, ECM etc. etc.
You choose what is acceptable time taken to kill each opposing ship
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.01.31 14:25:00 -
[7]
one of the rules of EVE is "there is no 'overkill', just 'Fire!' and 'Reload.'."
the more dps, the better. ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |

bO0bies
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Posted - 2010.01.31 21:05:00 -
[8]
This is great feedback. I tend to question the buffer tank fits because, now days when you are looking for a fight it is hard to find a 1v1. Typically you will encount 1 v 2 or 3. If you have a buffer there is almost Zero chance of survival (unless they are fail). It comes down to a simple question of math, can I tank the targets or do i need to disengage if possible. With a buffer you will lose part of your tank no matter what. If you run into a blob no matter what you fit you die. To answer the first question about what ship, I will be running in a sleipnir w/ a big booster and ofc HG implants. My question really is, ecm drones or combat. NOS/NEUT or Smartbomb. I have noticed in pvp as of late most people prefer to kite and use drones. I think a faction medium smart bomb makes the ship more versitile. Let me know what you guys think. Thank you so far.
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Zeba
Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.01.31 21:09:00 -
[9]
The only time you can have too much dps is when you can measure it in dps per second.
Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
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Veldsparmonster
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Posted - 2010.01.31 21:13:00 -
[10]
enough DPS = x+1, where x is your current DPS total.
True story!
Quote: Death to the blob!
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.01.31 21:13:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Zeba The only time you can have too much dps is when you can measure it in dps per second.
/thread ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |

bO0bies
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Posted - 2010.01.31 21:19:00 -
[12]
Well this thread went sour quick. Do you guys want to elaborate a little further? Tell me why you feel this way and what experiences you've had trying other setups.
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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2010.01.31 23:49:00 -
[13]
Originally by: bO0bies Well this thread went sour quick. Do you guys want to elaborate a little further? Tell me why you feel this way and what experiences you've had trying other setups.
personal experience is "there is never enough dps" ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |

Tortugan
Internal Anarchy
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Posted - 2010.01.31 23:56:00 -
[14]
To be honest if you're asking these questions you may want to put off putting several billion ISK into a combat ship. Not to mention, a sleipnir is not an easy ship to fly- I'd highly recommend flying a cyclone (the T1 variant) for a while and practice flying it similarly to the way you'll fly your sleipnir. You'll get a chance to find what works best for your style of piloting, and get some practice before putting the big ISK on the line. By the time you're really ready to put that kind of ISK into a ship, there shouldn't be any question in your mind as to how you'll fit it.
:D
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Darthewok
Perkone
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Posted - 2010.02.01 01:06:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tortugan I'd highly recommend flying a cyclone (the T1 variant) for a while and practice flying it similarly to the way you'll fly your sleipnir.
Check out the cyclone vids first i suppose to get some idea of how to fly and fit for solo. type ctrl+c, cyc and highlight all I suppose the lessons are transferable to the sleipnir.
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Deva Blackfire
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.01 01:11:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Grimpak
Originally by: bO0bies Well this thread went sour quick. Do you guys want to elaborate a little further? Tell me why you feel this way and what experiences you've had trying other setups.
personal experience is "there is never enough dps"
:D
But for rough numbers. t2 frigs 150+ is usual (with around 300-400 on abominations like taranis or daredevil). Interdictors and destroyers also sit around those numbers. T1 cruisers go from 200 upwards to 500 (with odd exception of thorax or vexor). T2 cruisers usually 400-500. Battlecruisers go from 500-700, field commands 500-800. Battleships run from 700 upwards to 1300 on typical fits.
Those are ofc rough numbers on most typical setups (buffer+dps or tank+dps on ships like mael or hyperion).
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Electric Potential
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Posted - 2010.02.01 03:37:00 -
[17]
You cannot fit for pure DPS. You need some survivability because you cannot shoot at all when your ship is blown up.
An active tank runs into problems since you rely too much on your capacitor. Combine that with weapons that use capacitor to fire and you have something that will die to anything with a neutralizer. On top of that, your tank works only when you have cap booster charges in your cargo hold. You generally have tighter fittings and have less DPS with an active tank. Besides capital ships, there are a few ships that can do well with repairers, though. In my opinion, active tanking needs a little boost to work well in PvP.
Eve seems mostly about buffer and gank setups these days. You can get a pre-determined amount of effective HP before you enter the fight, and the enemies have no choice but to power through it. It also typically results in better fitting flexibility. Until a little boost comes to active tanking, I'd rather have a nice set amount of HP and repair later out of combat with an armor repairer and capacitor recharge modules.
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Harotak
THE FINAL STAND Black Star Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.01 03:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Grimpak one of the rules of EVE is "there is no 'overkill', just 'Fire!' and 'Reload.'."
Rule #37
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Sigras
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Posted - 2010.02.01 05:51:00 -
[19]
The slep is one of the best active tanking ships in the game, and being such, I say, just make sure that you know when to leave with your active tank.
That being said, damage is king because nobody ever won a battle by tanking their enemy to death. Sufficiently tank your ship but don't sacrifice damage because the longer you take to kill this guy, the longer his friends have to come in and kill you.
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Electric Potential
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Posted - 2010.02.01 07:10:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Sigras The slep is one of the best active tanking ships in the game, and being such, I say, just make sure that you know when to leave with your active tank.
That being said, damage is king because nobody ever won a battle by tanking their enemy to death. Sufficiently tank your ship but don't sacrifice damage because the longer you take to kill this guy, the longer his friends have to come in and kill you.
If you faction fit, you could do both. I did before I sold that character.
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Sigras
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Posted - 2010.02.01 08:16:00 -
[21]
I agree I just mean don't over-tank your ship so that you nerf your damage,
IE don't drop your 3rd gyrostab thats giving you 150 extra DPS for 1000 extra EHP
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Seriously Bored
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.01 14:15:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Harotak
Originally by: Grimpak one of the rules of EVE is "there is no 'overkill', just 'Fire!' and 'Reload.'."
Rule #37
Win. Rule #34 works as well: If you're leaving scorch marks, you need a bigger gun.
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Culmen
Caldari Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.02.01 15:13:00 -
[23]
"Dakka": Ork slang for rapid fire capability, based on the onomatopoeia for automatic guns shooting. You need moar of it. No exceptions. ù 1d4chan on dakka. and further more why do i even need a sig? |

Exploding Tukey
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Posted - 2010.02.01 15:59:00 -
[24]
The object of war is not to die for your country, but to make the other bastard die for his. -- General George S. Patton
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Drek Grapper
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.01 17:01:00 -
[25]
Seventy Four. -- "If itÆs true that our species is alone in the universe, then IÆd have to say that the universe aimed rather low and settled for very little" George Carlin |

Johan Sabbat
Blue Republic
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Posted - 2010.02.01 21:39:00 -
[26]
Enough DPS depends on your opponent; enough alpha, on the other hand, is enough to take them out with a single volley.
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Ard UnjiiGo
The Tuskers
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Posted - 2010.02.01 22:26:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Merin Ryskin There is no such thing as "enough dps".
I have "enough dps" every time I pop the other guy before he pops me.
Seconding Tortugan, the OP should not take his "dream machine" out to PvP yet. He's not ready.
And, here to say you can have too much DPS if it means you died and could have avoided it by fitting smarter than an all or nearly all gank fit.
1) DPS is important. 2) DPS is overrated.
Both above statements are true.
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T0urniquet
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2010.02.01 22:37:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Siigari Kitawa ECM drones are a great option for a solo pilot because they give you jamming capability when the rest of your ship cannot otherwise accommodate such a thing.
Combat drones on the other hand kill a target faster, however if you are indeed soloing this creates a dichotomy: will your target have combat drones or will they have ecm drones?
It makes for a lot of speculative pvp, but when it comes down to it go with your gut and fit what you want to have.
Go DPS drones, if you are flying solo, fighting on a gate or station (90% of the time) ECM drones just cause your target to de-agress and then they most likely dock or jump.
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Joe Stalin
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Posted - 2010.02.01 22:50:00 -
[29]
When you start flying in an all Titan/Interceptor fleet, only then will you have enough DPS.
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Earl Scarelet
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Posted - 2010.02.03 05:34:00 -
[30]
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with Implants Implant=Snake Alpha Implant=Snake Beta Implant=Snake Gamma Implant=Snake Delta Implant=Snake Epsilon Implant=Snake Omega Implant=Ogdin's Eye Coordination Enhancer Implant=Zor's Custom Navigation Hyper-Link Implant=Pashan's Turret Customization Mindlink Implant=Hardwiring - Zainou 'Deadeye' ZGL1000 Kill them before they kill u. Overload ur web ur mwd. burn to your target. overload ur guns, fire. u got only 1 min capacitor!!!!! 
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