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Unable to use MWD in agent missions ?

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Halifaxian	Posted - 2004.11.24 21:53:00 - [61] Originally by: Thora Unni Because it's deadspace.. Standard warp Tech isn't usable in them that is why the Empires didn't devlop them untill the Rouge Drones "devloped" away. Read the story lines.. it's an RPG after all. the NPC's there have had access to the technology to use a deadspace microwarpdrive as do the Empires who don't want private pilots in the space Well hooray, my Caracal/RailRax/Cyclone can't keep distance on that big nasty Serpentis Blasterrax, but he can pounce on me with no issues whatsoever? Back to mining and missioning in my 7x light neutron Geddon =/
Halifaxian	Posted - 2004.11.24 21:53:00 - [62] Originally by: Thora Unni Because it's deadspace.. Standard warp Tech isn't usable in them that is why the Empires didn't devlop them untill the Rouge Drones "devloped" away. Read the story lines.. it's an RPG after all. the NPC's there have had access to the technology to use a deadspace microwarpdrive as do the Empires who don't want private pilots in the space Well hooray, my Caracal/RailRax/Cyclone can't keep distance on that big nasty Serpentis Blasterrax, but he can pounce on me with no issues whatsoever? Back to mining and missioning in my 7x light neutron Geddon =/
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.11.24 21:55:00 - [63] Thats crap.
Nicholas Marshal	Posted - 2004.11.24 21:55:00 - [64] Thats crap.
Zazita	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:40:00 - [65] Originally by: ElCoCo Ok whether we like it or not.... it's their game... but.. A simple WHY? I really don't get it!!!!!! Plz change it...pretty please I'll tell you why, better or for worse. Its an atempt at preventing exploiting or tipping the market unfairly tward the mission goers or profesional rat hunters. Think about it, 1 MWD BS hitting a complex ( a solo pilot ). He could zoom in, smash everything to bits, scoop the loot and book it outta their in 30 minutes with a net profit over 30 mil, or maybe even higher depending on the market value of the mineral stuff complex pirates drop. Or use a second pilot with a MWD MK5. Without that advantage of MWD, the same thing takes 3 or 4 times that amount of time and possibly requirtes 2 - 5 players for empire complexes (3-5 players to strip all the loot in a decent amount of time). Instead of complaining about the nerf, why dont you ppl try and come up with an alternative cuzz i cant think of one, honestly. Flame retardent vest (dumb sugestions that wouldn't work) Q: Who cares. A: Anyboty with half a brain and any experience with economics. Q: Make the NPCs harder or more numerous. A: Would make these complexes to hard for there target audience. Q: Remove the loot or increase the re-spawn time. A: Increasing re-spawn would make complexes un-accesable to most players. Removing the loot would remove a more valued part of game mechanics than nerfing the MWD. You have to consider why BS rat bases were not introduced (or introduced in extremely limited numbers) before now with complexes. Because you can sit on a BS thats re-spawning and make 30 - 40 mil an hour by yourself chaining it (its just to easy to exploit, i know making phat isk rox, but if everyboty is making phat isk, then your isk aint worth squat). The way NPC hunting is setup in game the possibility of destabalizing the market would be high. One possibility would be to reduce the bountys of all complex rats, or reducing the amount of ships in the complex spawns, but then they would be exactly like belt spawns. However annoying it is (I wont be seen in a complex period until i have a speed advantage), CCP has very good reasons for doing it.
Zazita	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:40:00 - [66] Originally by: ElCoCo Ok whether we like it or not.... it's their game... but.. A simple WHY? I really don't get it!!!!!! Plz change it...pretty please I'll tell you why, better or for worse. Its an atempt at preventing exploiting or tipping the market unfairly tward the mission goers or profesional rat hunters. Think about it, 1 MWD BS hitting a complex ( a solo pilot ). He could zoom in, smash everything to bits, scoop the loot and book it outta their in 30 minutes with a net profit over 30 mil, or maybe even higher depending on the market value of the mineral stuff complex pirates drop. Or use a second pilot with a MWD MK5. Without that advantage of MWD, the same thing takes 3 or 4 times that amount of time and possibly requirtes 2 - 5 players for empire complexes (3-5 players to strip all the loot in a decent amount of time). Instead of complaining about the nerf, why dont you ppl try and come up with an alternative cuzz i cant think of one, honestly. Flame retardent vest (dumb sugestions that wouldn't work) Q: Who cares. A: Anyboty with half a brain and any experience with economics. Q: Make the NPCs harder or more numerous. A: Would make these complexes to hard for there target audience. Q: Remove the loot or increase the re-spawn time. A: Increasing re-spawn would make complexes un-accesable to most players. Removing the loot would remove a more valued part of game mechanics than nerfing the MWD. You have to consider why BS rat bases were not introduced (or introduced in extremely limited numbers) before now with complexes. Because you can sit on a BS thats re-spawning and make 30 - 40 mil an hour by yourself chaining it (its just to easy to exploit, i know making phat isk rox, but if everyboty is making phat isk, then your isk aint worth squat). The way NPC hunting is setup in game the possibility of destabalizing the market would be high. One possibility would be to reduce the bountys of all complex rats, or reducing the amount of ships in the complex spawns, but then they would be exactly like belt spawns. However annoying it is (I wont be seen in a complex period until i have a speed advantage), CCP has very good reasons for doing it.
Keltin	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:44:00 - [67] I took an indifferent stance on this at first. Now, after reading the quote that all kill missions will revolve around deadspace missions I really can't sit idle. We have played and adapted to many rules in the game, rules dealing with MWD, and Afterburners. We have the dual MWD nerf and the MWD/AB nerf. Those are fine and justified, but nullifing sound ship setups in agent missions is going a step too far on this one. I don't want a deadspace MWD skill. I don't see a reason we should be forced into adapting to this new environment. It is overly annoying to know that from now on I need to pack around two setups for my ship. One for normal space and one I will have to dock and put on before I actually entire my mission area. There is enough downtime in EVE simply in travelling from point A to point B, adding this dock to get ready for a mission, on top of having to change tried and true setups is over the top. Please re-think the nerf on MWDs in deadspace. This is a needless waste of time. "I have never had so much fun playing a game that I have trouble staying awake playing!"
Keltin	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:44:00 - [68] I took an indifferent stance on this at first. Now, after reading the quote that all kill missions will revolve around deadspace missions I really can't sit idle. We have played and adapted to many rules in the game, rules dealing with MWD, and Afterburners. We have the dual MWD nerf and the MWD/AB nerf. Those are fine and justified, but nullifing sound ship setups in agent missions is going a step too far on this one. I don't want a deadspace MWD skill. I don't see a reason we should be forced into adapting to this new environment. It is overly annoying to know that from now on I need to pack around two setups for my ship. One for normal space and one I will have to dock and put on before I actually entire my mission area. There is enough downtime in EVE simply in travelling from point A to point B, adding this dock to get ready for a mission, on top of having to change tried and true setups is over the top. Please re-think the nerf on MWDs in deadspace. This is a needless waste of time. "I have never had so much fun playing a game that I have trouble staying awake playing!"
Vigilant	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:54:00 - [69] Damm...haven't got to run missions yet...just collection stuff i bought today...was going too after work..but after reading this crap...I may not want... Err...Sounds like the DEVS either need to un-nerf the MWD Usage...Or..nerf the hell out of MWD Enemies...Because the Serpentis Thorax...Only way to keep him out of range is to MWD away (Carcal Death is fun).....going head to head in much less than BS or very Skill Ceptor/Ass. Frig...you done...
Vigilant	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:54:00 - [70] Damm...haven't got to run missions yet...just collection stuff i bought today...was going too after work..but after reading this crap...I may not want... Err...Sounds like the DEVS either need to un-nerf the MWD Usage...Or..nerf the hell out of MWD Enemies...Because the Serpentis Thorax...Only way to keep him out of range is to MWD away (Carcal Death is fun).....going head to head in much less than BS or very Skill Ceptor/Ass. Frig...you done...
Dyre	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:55:00 - [71] Quote: I reapeat its nerfing to oblivion short range setups and only them. Odd, I've heard it both ways today... Short range is useless now! Long range is useless now! Actually, the only places I still use MWD are my travel ships and long range setups. The MWD keeps distance for the tracking issues with long range weaponry. My close range mission setups usually just use an oversized AB, cannot afford the cap hit from the MWD on my close range tanks.
Dyre	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:55:00 - [72] Quote: I reapeat its nerfing to oblivion short range setups and only them. Odd, I've heard it both ways today... Short range is useless now! Long range is useless now! Actually, the only places I still use MWD are my travel ships and long range setups. The MWD keeps distance for the tracking issues with long range weaponry. My close range mission setups usually just use an oversized AB, cannot afford the cap hit from the MWD on my close range tanks.
marioman	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:58:00 - [73] Originally by: Zazita Originally by: ElCoCo Ok whether we like it or not.... it's their game... but.. A simple WHY? I really don't get it!!!!!! Plz change it...pretty please I'll tell you why, better or for worse. Its an atempt at preventing exploiting or tipping the market unfairly tward the mission goers or profesional rat hunters. Think about it, 1 MWD BS hitting a complex ( a solo pilot ). He could zoom in, smash everything to bits, scoop the loot and book it outta their in 30 minutes with a net profit over 30 mil, or maybe even higher depending on the market value of the mineral stuff complex pirates drop. Or use a second pilot with a MWD MK5. The lowest level complex a battleship can go in is 5/10.....have you seen a 5/10 complex? omg lol you need like 10 people in BS's and thats with alot of skills and tier 2 BS's even with a MWD in there it would be hard....specailly being greeted at the front door by 30+ frigs and cruiser and 9 NPC battleships, oh and cant forget interceptors, and sentry guns. On test server that was a 10/10 complex that had 36 angel battleships at the front door.
marioman	Posted - 2004.11.24 22:58:00 - [74] Originally by: Zazita Originally by: ElCoCo Ok whether we like it or not.... it's their game... but.. A simple WHY? I really don't get it!!!!!! Plz change it...pretty please I'll tell you why, better or for worse. Its an atempt at preventing exploiting or tipping the market unfairly tward the mission goers or profesional rat hunters. Think about it, 1 MWD BS hitting a complex ( a solo pilot ). He could zoom in, smash everything to bits, scoop the loot and book it outta their in 30 minutes with a net profit over 30 mil, or maybe even higher depending on the market value of the mineral stuff complex pirates drop. Or use a second pilot with a MWD MK5. The lowest level complex a battleship can go in is 5/10.....have you seen a 5/10 complex? omg lol you need like 10 people in BS's and thats with alot of skills and tier 2 BS's even with a MWD in there it would be hard....specailly being greeted at the front door by 30+ frigs and cruiser and 9 NPC battleships, oh and cant forget interceptors, and sentry guns. On test server that was a 10/10 complex that had 36 angel battleships at the front door.
Zazita	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:01:00 - [75] Originally by: marioman Originally by: Zazita Originally by: ElCoCo Ok whether we like it or not.... it's their game... but.. A simple WHY? I really don't get it!!!!!! Plz change it...pretty please I'll tell you why, better or for worse. Its an atempt at preventing exploiting or tipping the market unfairly tward the mission goers or profesional rat hunters. Think about it, 1 MWD BS hitting a complex ( a solo pilot ). He could zoom in, smash everything to bits, scoop the loot and book it outta their in 30 minutes with a net profit over 30 mil, or maybe even higher depending on the market value of the mineral stuff complex pirates drop. Or use a second pilot with a MWD MK5. The lowest level complex a battleship can go in is 5/10.....have you seen a 5/10 complex? omg lol you need like 10 people in BS's and thats with alot of skills and tier 2 BS's even with a MWD in there it would be hard....specailly being greeted at the front door by 30+ frigs and cruiser and 9 NPC battleships, oh and cant forget interceptors, and sentry guns. On test server that was a 10/10 complex that had 36 angel battleships at the front door. That argument has nuthing to do with the exploitability of empire complexes, which is why MWD was nerfed. I agree that no MWD = no point in doing them for me which does irritate me. But a solution to their exploitablity was nessesary for complexes to be "New Content".
Zazita	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:01:00 - [76] Originally by: marioman Originally by: Zazita Originally by: ElCoCo Ok whether we like it or not.... it's their game... but.. A simple WHY? I really don't get it!!!!!! Plz change it...pretty please I'll tell you why, better or for worse. Its an atempt at preventing exploiting or tipping the market unfairly tward the mission goers or profesional rat hunters. Think about it, 1 MWD BS hitting a complex ( a solo pilot ). He could zoom in, smash everything to bits, scoop the loot and book it outta their in 30 minutes with a net profit over 30 mil, or maybe even higher depending on the market value of the mineral stuff complex pirates drop. Or use a second pilot with a MWD MK5. The lowest level complex a battleship can go in is 5/10.....have you seen a 5/10 complex? omg lol you need like 10 people in BS's and thats with alot of skills and tier 2 BS's even with a MWD in there it would be hard....specailly being greeted at the front door by 30+ frigs and cruiser and 9 NPC battleships, oh and cant forget interceptors, and sentry guns. On test server that was a 10/10 complex that had 36 angel battleships at the front door. That argument has nuthing to do with the exploitability of empire complexes, which is why MWD was nerfed. I agree that no MWD = no point in doing them for me which does irritate me. But a solution to their exploitablity was nessesary for complexes to be "New Content".
Dewar Scrabulous	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:03:00 - [77] Originally by: Dyre My close range mission setups usually just use an oversized AB, cannot afford the cap hit from the MWD on my close range tanks. Not to mention the shield and signature radius hit. Both of those can save you when orbiting a bs at 1 km. I agree that this hurts long range setups more than short. Oh and points up to rp reason given on the thread. No warp in dead space, thus it is called dead. I do wish that NPCs were so limited as well, but maybe that just hasn't made it in yet. -Dewar ---
Dewar Scrabulous	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:03:00 - [78] Originally by: Dyre My close range mission setups usually just use an oversized AB, cannot afford the cap hit from the MWD on my close range tanks. Not to mention the shield and signature radius hit. Both of those can save you when orbiting a bs at 1 km. I agree that this hurts long range setups more than short. Oh and points up to rp reason given on the thread. No warp in dead space, thus it is called dead. I do wish that NPCs were so limited as well, but maybe that just hasn't made it in yet. -Dewar ---
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:17:00 - [79] Originally by: Dyre Quote: I reapeat its nerfing to oblivion short range setups and only them. Odd, I've heard it both ways today... Short range is useless now! Long range is useless now! Actually, the only places I still use MWD are my travel ships and long range setups. The MWD keeps distance for the tracking issues with long range weaponry. My close range mission setups usually just use an oversized AB, cannot afford the cap hit from the MWD on my close range tanks. MOst NPCs are long range, long rangers can hit short range NPCs with a web, short rangers cannot ever hit a long range NPC without a mwd. = Short rangers are fubared. Long rangers don't care. Oh and oversized abs is a unintended feature, not all ships can effectively use it, and it will be removed soonÖ And about the exploitability, then the concept should have received more thought, hell put a limit on the amount of bounty Concord can pay out in a given time spawn I don't care, don't remove a large portion of the possible combat options. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Gariuys	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:17:00 - [80] Originally by: Dyre Quote: I reapeat its nerfing to oblivion short range setups and only them. Odd, I've heard it both ways today... Short range is useless now! Long range is useless now! Actually, the only places I still use MWD are my travel ships and long range setups. The MWD keeps distance for the tracking issues with long range weaponry. My close range mission setups usually just use an oversized AB, cannot afford the cap hit from the MWD on my close range tanks. MOst NPCs are long range, long rangers can hit short range NPCs with a web, short rangers cannot ever hit a long range NPC without a mwd. = Short rangers are fubared. Long rangers don't care. Oh and oversized abs is a unintended feature, not all ships can effectively use it, and it will be removed soonÖ And about the exploitability, then the concept should have received more thought, hell put a limit on the amount of bounty Concord can pay out in a given time spawn I don't care, don't remove a large portion of the possible combat options. ~{When evil and strange get together anything is possible}~ A tool is only useless when you don't know how to use it. - ActiveX The grass is always greener on the other side. - JoCool
Celt Eireson	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:31:00 - [81] Long rangers do care, especially projectile users. Without MWD you cannot keep all the smaller ships are range, if you cant keep them at range you cant hit them at all. Now whilst some of the cruisers and battleships use long range a lot, especially the elite frigates, like to work in close enough that your medium/large turrets wont hit but far enough out that you cant use a smartbomb on them. So yes, long range setups are equally as screwed in this environment especially as with long range guns cruisers / assault cruisers / battlecruisers generally don't have enough powergrid left over to fit an oversized afterburner.
Celt Eireson	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:31:00 - [82] Long rangers do care, especially projectile users. Without MWD you cannot keep all the smaller ships are range, if you cant keep them at range you cant hit them at all. Now whilst some of the cruisers and battleships use long range a lot, especially the elite frigates, like to work in close enough that your medium/large turrets wont hit but far enough out that you cant use a smartbomb on them. So yes, long range setups are equally as screwed in this environment especially as with long range guns cruisers / assault cruisers / battlecruisers generally don't have enough powergrid left over to fit an oversized afterburner.
Dyre	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:35:00 - [83] When I said I had heard it both ways, I did not mean that both cannot be broken. It is perfectly possible that things going on at the moment have made a serious impact on both long and short range setups. Short range hunters cannot get close enough to do their damage, Long range hunters cannot stay far enough away to optimize their damage while avoiding the damage being thrown at them. Both types relied on speed to be able to choose the distance that the engagement happens at. Lack of speed hurts them both. Of course, as so many people have pointed out, this would not really be a problem if the rats were under similar restrictions... It does not matter much how fast you are going, as long as you are faster then your opponent.
Dyre	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:35:00 - [84] When I said I had heard it both ways, I did not mean that both cannot be broken. It is perfectly possible that things going on at the moment have made a serious impact on both long and short range setups. Short range hunters cannot get close enough to do their damage, Long range hunters cannot stay far enough away to optimize their damage while avoiding the damage being thrown at them. Both types relied on speed to be able to choose the distance that the engagement happens at. Lack of speed hurts them both. Of course, as so many people have pointed out, this would not really be a problem if the rats were under similar restrictions... It does not matter much how fast you are going, as long as you are faster then your opponent.
MysticNZ	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:35:00 - [85] This is ****. More and more im hating this patch. Every mission i've done today has this. God dammit. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
MysticNZ	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:35:00 - [86] This is ****. More and more im hating this patch. Every mission i've done today has this. God dammit. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
spoon2	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:48:00 - [87] Another thing to consider here is what will happen to indys now you can only fit one afterburner, all the traders will die from travel boredom.
spoon2	Posted - 2004.11.24 23:48:00 - [88] Another thing to consider here is what will happen to indys now you can only fit one afterburner, all the traders will die from travel boredom.
Psycho Doughboy	Posted - 2004.11.25 00:01:00 - [89] Originally by: Dyre When I said I had heard it both ways, I did not mean that both cannot be broken. It is perfectly possible that things going on at the moment have made a serious impact on both long and short range setups. Devils advocate, but could it be that perhaps you are supposed to be playing a MMORPG and in an MMORPG you have to play with teammates. Why not send in a long range ship with a destroyer escort to hit those nasty complexes?
Psycho Doughboy	Posted - 2004.11.25 00:01:00 - [90] Originally by: Dyre When I said I had heard it both ways, I did not mean that both cannot be broken. It is perfectly possible that things going on at the moment have made a serious impact on both long and short range setups. Devils advocate, but could it be that perhaps you are supposed to be playing a MMORPG and in an MMORPG you have to play with teammates. Why not send in a long range ship with a destroyer escort to hit those nasty complexes?

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