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Astrid Tron
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Posted - 2004.11.25 09:04:00 -
[181]
Edited by: Astrid Tron on 25/11/2004 09:09:21
No MWD in deadspace is truly a bad decision, as it removes a tactic from combat - Closequarter fighting, which is definitely the most fun form of combat. Not much point in using afterburners, as +40% only gets a BS up to about 230m/s or so.
I am sure this will be changed.
But I am glad that they removed the dual-MWD option, though. It was effective and fun, but too much.
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When you have to kill a man, it takes nothing to be polite |
Astrid Tron
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Posted - 2004.11.25 09:04:00 -
[182]
Edited by: Astrid Tron on 25/11/2004 09:09:21
No MWD in deadspace is truly a bad decision, as it removes a tactic from combat - Closequarter fighting, which is definitely the most fun form of combat. Not much point in using afterburners, as +40% only gets a BS up to about 230m/s or so.
I am sure this will be changed.
But I am glad that they removed the dual-MWD option, though. It was effective and fun, but too much.
---------------------------------------------
When you have to kill a man, it takes nothing to be polite |
ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.11.25 09:11:00 -
[183]
 Originally by: DeerHunter GE
Thats the way it is......no more defenceless rats....
Ok plz give us an example how rats where defenseless because we could use a mwd while hunting them.
Originally by: DeerHunter GE
no more rat hunting missions while having lunch...
Riiight.... so you will now be having lunch while picking up the cans and travelling around 
You seem to really know your stuff... give us more input! 
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.11.25 09:11:00 -
[184]
Originally by: DeerHunter GE
Thats the way it is......no more defenceless rats....
Ok plz give us an example how rats where defenseless because we could use a mwd while hunting them.
Originally by: DeerHunter GE
no more rat hunting missions while having lunch...
Riiight.... so you will now be having lunch while picking up the cans and travelling around
You seem to really know your stuff... give us more input!
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.25 09:43:00 -
[185]
Originally by: Sanaril Wolfchild
This is nerfing a whole race. Gallente is meant to be short range fighters. Think about that, CCP!
Sanaril
Don't you see CCP's plan? They will make all ships suck as much as minmatar do (except under optimat circumstances) and thus will never have to admit they screwed over minmatar so long. I expect the missile nerf will have all those Raven and scorp pilots on the forum screaming as much as us Blasterax and thron drivers. And the new crystals will probably have the Amarr pilots crying as well.
Oh how I wish I was just joking.
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theRaptor
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Posted - 2004.11.25 09:43:00 -
[186]
Originally by: Sanaril Wolfchild
This is nerfing a whole race. Gallente is meant to be short range fighters. Think about that, CCP!
Sanaril
Don't you see CCP's plan? They will make all ships suck as much as minmatar do (except under optimat circumstances) and thus will never have to admit they screwed over minmatar so long. I expect the missile nerf will have all those Raven and scorp pilots on the forum screaming as much as us Blasterax and thron drivers. And the new crystals will probably have the Amarr pilots crying as well.
Oh how I wish I was just joking.
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Nom Anor
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:19:00 -
[187]
It's brutally obvious why this has been done:
It's been stated that the goal is for all kill missions to take space in deadspace.
Kill missions could (without deadspace) be completed faster than courier missions.
This is an attempt to balance the incomes of the two professions of Kill w***e and Courier w***e, by making kill missions take longer.
Of course i think it's a totally stupid way of doing it (why didn't they just use the max. frequency attribute?), especially for those who want to "level up" to use lv4 agents.
This change also makes missions & complexes less profitable as it's easier to lose a slow ship. |
Nom Anor
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:19:00 -
[188]
It's brutally obvious why this has been done:
It's been stated that the goal is for all kill missions to take space in deadspace.
Kill missions could (without deadspace) be completed faster than courier missions.
This is an attempt to balance the incomes of the two professions of Kill w***e and Courier w***e, by making kill missions take longer.
Of course i think it's a totally stupid way of doing it (why didn't they just use the max. frequency attribute?), especially for those who want to "level up" to use lv4 agents.
This change also makes missions & complexes less profitable as it's easier to lose a slow ship. |
Nom Anor
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:22:00 -
[189]
omg it censors wh-re! I even put a zero in just in case |
Nom Anor
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:22:00 -
[190]
omg it censors wh-re! I even put a zero in just in case |
Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:26:00 -
[191]
Originally by: Pargon
As many of us have seen, using dual MWD and MWD singles in NPC and pvp combat is just a cheap tactic.
It's a cheap, newbie, overused tactic that is very very very hard to counter. It's an unbalanced way to fight, because of targeting speeds and maths (even with modules to improve it.. face it.. it's still a cheap move).
I encourage this MWD nurf because we need people to start using real tactics that change according to situation with groups rather than stick to one same tactic over and over and over and bloody over.
How do you expect my blasters to get in range? Oh wait, you don't.
--
The best description of alliances, ever:
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Dark Shikari
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:26:00 -
[192]
Originally by: Pargon
As many of us have seen, using dual MWD and MWD singles in NPC and pvp combat is just a cheap tactic.
It's a cheap, newbie, overused tactic that is very very very hard to counter. It's an unbalanced way to fight, because of targeting speeds and maths (even with modules to improve it.. face it.. it's still a cheap move).
I encourage this MWD nurf because we need people to start using real tactics that change according to situation with groups rather than stick to one same tactic over and over and over and bloody over.
How do you expect my blasters to get in range? Oh wait, you don't.
--
The best description of alliances, ever:
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:27:00 -
[193]
So they wanted to balance kill missions with Courrier missions, which were THE most imbalanced way of making money when comparing time spend over reward....
.... riiiiiiight.
I think Teh Raptor's argument makes more sense.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:27:00 -
[194]
So they wanted to balance kill missions with Courrier missions, which were THE most imbalanced way of making money when comparing time spend over reward....
.... riiiiiiight.
I think Teh Raptor's argument makes more sense.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:28:00 -
[195]
I'll just post up here, cos I'm at work, and kinda bored.
If I were truly neutral to this situation, and was considering the MWD/deadspace situation, on the merits of the posters here, then the pro-nerf would win.
Some of the whining in this thread is truly pitiful.
As it happens, I'm a close-range fighter myself, and I'm not too happy with the change, especially after chasing a frigate for 10 minutes last night trying to get the little bastard witin web/blaster range.
But this change has only been live for a day. People far more resourceful than half the posters here will think up solutions. Then you can all copy them.
Personally, after that first mission (lvl 3) I went back to the station, strapped on a couple of rails. Problem solved.
I think people main issue with this is having one 'travel' fitting, and one 'mission killer' fitting. That will now have to change, and some thought will have to be put into your missions.
The only problem I have with it is that the number of enemies has increased, the number of can drops has decreased, the bounties have floored, and the bonuses went down. The actual fighting is far more interesting than the f-key spamfest we had before. It's just not as easy.
.
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drunkenmaster
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:28:00 -
[196]
I'll just post up here, cos I'm at work, and kinda bored.
If I were truly neutral to this situation, and was considering the MWD/deadspace situation, on the merits of the posters here, then the pro-nerf would win.
Some of the whining in this thread is truly pitiful.
As it happens, I'm a close-range fighter myself, and I'm not too happy with the change, especially after chasing a frigate for 10 minutes last night trying to get the little bastard witin web/blaster range.
But this change has only been live for a day. People far more resourceful than half the posters here will think up solutions. Then you can all copy them.
Personally, after that first mission (lvl 3) I went back to the station, strapped on a couple of rails. Problem solved.
I think people main issue with this is having one 'travel' fitting, and one 'mission killer' fitting. That will now have to change, and some thought will have to be put into your missions.
The only problem I have with it is that the number of enemies has increased, the number of can drops has decreased, the bounties have floored, and the bonuses went down. The actual fighting is far more interesting than the f-key spamfest we had before. It's just not as easy.
.
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:28:00 -
[197]
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 25/11/2004 10:30:38
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Pargon
As many of us have seen, using dual MWD and MWD singles in NPC and pvp combat is just a cheap tactic.
It's a cheap, newbie, overused tactic that is very very very hard to counter. It's an unbalanced way to fight, because of targeting speeds and maths (even with modules to improve it.. face it.. it's still a cheap move).
I encourage this MWD nurf because we need people to start using real tactics that change according to situation with groups rather than stick to one same tactic over and over and over and bloody over.
How do you expect my blasters to get in range? Oh wait, you don't.
/sarcasm on.
Incorrect he said you should use Abs and Overdrives.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.11.25 10:28:00 -
[198]
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 25/11/2004 10:30:38
Originally by: Dark Shikari
Originally by: Pargon
As many of us have seen, using dual MWD and MWD singles in NPC and pvp combat is just a cheap tactic.
It's a cheap, newbie, overused tactic that is very very very hard to counter. It's an unbalanced way to fight, because of targeting speeds and maths (even with modules to improve it.. face it.. it's still a cheap move).
I encourage this MWD nurf because we need people to start using real tactics that change according to situation with groups rather than stick to one same tactic over and over and over and bloody over.
How do you expect my blasters to get in range? Oh wait, you don't.
/sarcasm on.
Incorrect he said you should use Abs and Overdrives.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.11.25 10:31:00 -
[199]
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 25/11/2004 10:36:40
You said it yourself Drunky, "i switched to some rails".
I don't have a problem with that... because an all rail or beam loadout can still work vs close range hostiles, if you have some support modules.
A short range loadout can't do the opposite though.
Is that what makes EVE more diverse? cause if it is ....  .
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:31:00 -
[200]
Edited by: Juan Andalusian on 25/11/2004 10:36:40
You said it yourself Drunky, "i switched to some rails".
I don't have a problem with that... because an all rail or beam loadout can still work vs close range hostiles, if you have some support modules.
A short range loadout can't do the opposite though.
Is that what makes EVE more diverse? cause if it is .... .
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Kunming
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:33:00 -
[201]
In the end afterburner will be part of many NPC setups...
Intercepting since BETA |
Kunming
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:33:00 -
[202]
In the end afterburner will be part of many NPC setups...
Intercepting since BETA |
Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:35:00 -
[203]
After thinking about it, and playing a couple, the no mwd is rather annoying, but i can get over it. its a bit of a pain, cos u use a mwd to travel to kill location then have to swap it over etc. What they could do, is just nerf the MWD in deadspace and cut its speed down to a better level, say a bit higher than AB? This would save everyone changing from travel setups to fighting setups. But then you still got teh other drains on it.
However, deadspace looks pretty. Which is a nice change, i dont think all kill missions should be moved over, but deadspace should be sprinkled out all over.
But, the loot in deadspace is rather poor. why was that done? also, blowing up the bunker/telescopes there result in a huge nice big explosion, which looks great, but you get no loot? veyr few cans dropped from NPC's and those that do have loot thats quite quite poor
Why not put the loot in one of the structures? therefore you dont get annoyed having to go reeeeally slowly between cans and you get a decent amount of loot and a result for putting some effort in blowing the thing up to begin with, also makes sense that structures like bunkers would hold a load of loot.
Basically, its gonna push people away from mission running into rat hunting i think, i mean, why shouldnt mission running be fun and earn you some decent isk as well? You should be able to earn isk and have fun at the same time eh? loot drops are part of what make kill misisons quite fun, that and blowing stuff up of course.
What do ya think?
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"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Khaldorn Murino
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:35:00 -
[204]
After thinking about it, and playing a couple, the no mwd is rather annoying, but i can get over it. its a bit of a pain, cos u use a mwd to travel to kill location then have to swap it over etc. What they could do, is just nerf the MWD in deadspace and cut its speed down to a better level, say a bit higher than AB? This would save everyone changing from travel setups to fighting setups. But then you still got teh other drains on it.
However, deadspace looks pretty. Which is a nice change, i dont think all kill missions should be moved over, but deadspace should be sprinkled out all over.
But, the loot in deadspace is rather poor. why was that done? also, blowing up the bunker/telescopes there result in a huge nice big explosion, which looks great, but you get no loot? veyr few cans dropped from NPC's and those that do have loot thats quite quite poor
Why not put the loot in one of the structures? therefore you dont get annoyed having to go reeeeally slowly between cans and you get a decent amount of loot and a result for putting some effort in blowing the thing up to begin with, also makes sense that structures like bunkers would hold a load of loot.
Basically, its gonna push people away from mission running into rat hunting i think, i mean, why shouldnt mission running be fun and earn you some decent isk as well? You should be able to earn isk and have fun at the same time eh? loot drops are part of what make kill misisons quite fun, that and blowing stuff up of course.
What do ya think?
-
"Whenever I hear any one arguing for slavery I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally." - Unknown Warrior
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Lucre
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:35:00 -
[205]
Yes, this is a stupid nerf.
Yes, we could probably adapt.
But just because we could adapt doesn't stop its being a stupid nerf. Or mean we shouldn't tell (and keep telling) CCP this in the hope that they'll change their mind (as Empire scientists/hackers discover how to make MWDs work in deadspace).
As for the "if you had MWDs you'd make too much money, too quickly" argument, frankly that's ludicrous. If the mission pays too much for the time, the solution should be
to reduce the payment, not artificially lengthen the mission by adding boredom time - this is meant to be entertainment...
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Lucre
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:35:00 -
[206]
Yes, this is a stupid nerf.
Yes, we could probably adapt.
But just because we could adapt doesn't stop its being a stupid nerf. Or mean we shouldn't tell (and keep telling) CCP this in the hope that they'll change their mind (as Empire scientists/hackers discover how to make MWDs work in deadspace).
As for the "if you had MWDs you'd make too much money, too quickly" argument, frankly that's ludicrous. If the mission pays too much for the time, the solution should be
to reduce the payment, not artificially lengthen the mission by adding boredom time - this is meant to be entertainment...
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:45:00 -
[207]
If level 3 missions are too hard for your cruiser without chicken MWD setup...
*drumroll*
Do level 2 missions.
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Tharrn
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:45:00 -
[208]
If level 3 missions are too hard for your cruiser without chicken MWD setup...
*drumroll*
Do level 2 missions.
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.11.25 11:07:00 -
[209]
Originally by: Tharrn
If level 3 missions are too hard for your cruiser without chicken MWD setup...
*drumroll*
Do level 2 missions.
Chicken mwd setup?
The mwd for closerange fighters is a necessity... if you see someone mwd`ing towards you and then starting to blast you to pieces, you consider him a chicken?
Close range fighters don`t have another option that to get close.... missile users have absolutely no problems and long range fighters can fit webs/tracking comps or use drones to kill the rats that get in close.
Snipers using mwd`s are another thing for sure but...
Is it more fun to sit still and keep shooting until everyone`s dead? And then increase the tediousness factor with slow container pickup? 
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ElCoCo
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Posted - 2004.11.25 11:07:00 -
[210]
Originally by: Tharrn
If level 3 missions are too hard for your cruiser without chicken MWD setup...
*drumroll*
Do level 2 missions.
Chicken mwd setup?
The mwd for closerange fighters is a necessity... if you see someone mwd`ing towards you and then starting to blast you to pieces, you consider him a chicken?
Close range fighters don`t have another option that to get close.... missile users have absolutely no problems and long range fighters can fit webs/tracking comps or use drones to kill the rats that get in close.
Snipers using mwd`s are another thing for sure but...
Is it more fun to sit still and keep shooting until everyone`s dead? And then increase the tediousness factor with slow container pickup?
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